The 5X5 grid is only for combat. When you're not fighting you don't have to stick to it.
Problematic. When a fight breaks out, people teleport apart?
If it comes up, I generally just treat them as squeezing (I also allow two non-hostile characters to occupy the same space in combat by squeezing). Technically that doesn't do anything for medium creatures, because small and medium creatures have the same space, but it's an easy thing to implement and covers a case that clearly should exist.
The number of times in the last 20 years where I've been in a game where a fight has broken out and there's been more people than could fit in a room if everyone had their own 5X5 space is... zero.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The number of times in the last 20 years where I've been in a game where a fight has broken out and there's been more people than could fit in a room if everyone had their own 5X5 space is... zero.
That's because D&D maps are built on a scale where putting everyone in a 5'x5' space works.
Are you going to fit mounts and pack animals in it? - NO but this is plenty of room to fit 5-8 people and gear for a night. It might be a little cramped with 8 but no worse that the 25 folks we stuffed into a floorless 10' radius old military tent one night in sub-freezing temperatures on a geology field trip and me managed to survive and stay warm. we are all used to modern large and spacious houses and apartments. Older (ie pre 1950) have smaller rooms and typically larger families and still had room. take a look at log cabins (try watching the show on the DIY channel) they were typically about the size we are talking about including 2 floors frequently and often held families of 5-10+ living in them for years not just a night or so.
There is a slight size difference between the two spells, "Leomund's Tiny Hut" and "Galder's Tower". Tiny hut says nine creatures of medium size or smaller. My groups and I have always immediately noticed that this configuration is basically a 3x3 arrangement of 5 foot squares, thus room for 9 medium creatures. The Tower only provides 2 2x2 arrangements of 5 foot squares, thus 8 creatures. Very subtle difference, also Tower doesn't limit creature size. Nor does tower vanish when the caster leaves, nor specify an exit other than up to the next floor, or a window. Not sure how secure a place Tower is vs Tiny Hut, but they both have strong cases for being the better choice to take at level 5.
They way I look at it is how I view my own living space. My bedroom, where I currently type this, is approximately 12ft. x 12ft (I measured it badly with a tape measure and trying to spin on the spot). For the sake of simplicty we'll round this figure down to 10x10. In this bedroom going clockwise I have a chest of drawers, a bookshelf, a clothes rack, a bed, a closet for my boiler, some plastic boxes and a desk. It's pokey for two healthy human beings, more so if they're obese (like myself), but otherwise comfortable. Of the five places I've lived in (South & West Yorkshire, England), my current amount of space is the most I've had. Master bedrooms may be 15x15 feet, but I don't know of many council houses or flats that are much bigger, which is what I'm used to.
So no, I don't think Galder's Tower sucks. To me it'd be like a home away from home, especially when considering the possible conditions my adventuring party may encounter. It also helps I'm currently playing a claustrophiliac character who would love nothing more to be in such a tight dry space.
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Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
Pretty good? 5000 sq.ft. Is great - a typical American home is 1200-3500 sq.ft, a barn stall is 50sq.ft. (5x10) so you can fit a a full sized home with a bedroom for each party member AND a stable with a stall for every horse. In 5000 sq ft. TrueType a mansion.
Never really thought of it like that. For small races 2 floors of 100 sq ft is plenty. And its definitely enough for 1 person. Average tiny house is 225 sq ft in the USA.
Pretty good? 5000 sq.ft. Is great - a typical American home is 1200-3500 sq.ft, a barn stall is 50sq.ft. (5x10) so you can fit a a full sized home with a bedroom for each party member AND a stable with a stall for every horse. In 5000 sq ft. TrueType a mansion.
I was as that was in response to the previous post about 5000 sq. Ft., galdurs tower has rooms about the size of a standard bedroom ( 9x11 to 9x12). It is not meant for a party but for a lone mage wanting a study place for an extended time hence the wording on how to extend it and make it permanent. Could it be used as an overnight camp? Sure but then yes it will be crowded and yes the animals will have to left outside. Galdur’s tower is an improvement on Leo’s hut but inferior to the various Mord.’s buildings in terms of space.
I do not see Galder's tower as an improvement on Leo's Hut. Leo's Hut is clearly an overnight camp. You cannot even leave it without the spell ending. Galder's Tower is an inferior overnight camp. Mord' Private Sanctum is not a building or a camp, it is more like a Forbiddence or a Hallow - it makes an area where you do not have to worry about people listening in or popping in for a visit. Mord' Mansion is again, not really a building. It is a weaker version of the Demiplane spell with a few extra comforts. While Demiplane spell is not permanent, it does create a permanent location you can store things in. Mord's Mansion does make for a very luxirous overnight/all day camp, so it could be considered a combo Demiplane/Leo's Hut.
Galder's towers real use is something that does not otherwise exist - a way to permanently create a house for the wizard. Moreover, it is low enough level that a high level wizard could easily create 4 or more such houses every year. Quite reasonable, as he not only can use a higher slot, but he can also also prepare 4 extra scrolls for emergencies.
There are only two other spells that do anything similar: Wall of Stone, a 5th level spell, and Temple of the Gods, a 7th level Cleric spell. Wall of Stone is a better construction spell for general use, but it lacks the luxuries of Galdur's. And of course, you have to be at least 9th level to cast it. Most people could not afford to live in a Temple of the Gods, and even a high level cleric can only make one a year reliably (as it is quite possible you will end up using your 7th, 8th, and 9th level slots on a bad day.)
Galdur's Tower main use is clearly NOT for an adventurer, but instead a City Wizard that is making a living building luxury tiny homes. A mere 5th level Wizard can start his contractor business and make a nice living. I would expect renting out a private tiny house to go for at least 10 gp for a day, and you should be able to collect that at least 100 days each year, then sell the tiny house for at least 500 gp on top of the rental income. Assuming you rent it out for 100 out of the 365 days in a year, that should be a nice profit of 1500 gp a year. More then enough for a nice living.
Never really thought of it like that. For small races 2 floors of 100 sq ft is plenty. And its definitely enough for 1 person. Average tiny house is 225 sq ft in the USA.
No it isn't. Average house size is closer to 2250 square feet than 225.
You are correct, Mighty Fortress, an 8th level spell also does it. Better than the others as it needs to be recast only once every 7 days, not to mention the luxuries and servants.
Fabricate is an other 5th level spell, and basically makes just the luxury part rather than the walls. It also requires you to buy raw materials, unless you just want to make adobe homes out of dirt. Honestly, I see Fabricate as more of a convert shit (literally in most cities) into items worth silver. Not really worth it to sell, not for a 5th limit spell. It shines as an adventurer spell, giving you the 1,000 ft of rope, row boat, collapsible ladder, or other such unexpectedly needed non-magical item. The real limit is it makes a single item, no larger than a 5ft cube (125 cubic feet max). Not as valuable as Wall of Stone that can be upto 10 panels each 10 ft x 20 ft x 1/4 ft (= 500 cubic feet). A single Wall of stone spell can make a hut 20 x 20 with a loft and a slanted roof or a 20x40 with no loft and a flat roof 800 square ft. Better idea is to do them row house style, sharing walls. that makes it 20x60 ft. Besides being a 5th level spell rather than 3rd, it also lacks all the luxuries.
It would take about 20 or so castings of Fabricate plus a casting of Wall of Stone to come close to Galders. You will end up missing the magical fireplaces and braziers. As they effectively provide heat and light without firewood, I think 365 casting of Galder's Tower (3rd level) makes something much better than a casting of Wall of Stone + 20 odd castings of Fabricate, all 5th level spells.
Yeah that wish stipulation seems really weird. I think most DMs would assume it could heal the whole thing if that wasn't in there. You can certainly use one wish to create something that is worth more than a new DIF would likely cost.
when looking at these spells it’s sort of helpful to actually start with what you have with out the spells- so here goes A) no spell - camped out either in your bedroll (3x6-7’) with your gear in a separate pile about the same size and any mount taking up a third 5x10’ space - in game terms a block 2x3 or 3x3. or, a two man tent holding you and your gear in a 5x10’ space with your mount and its gear in a second 5x10’ space or a block 2x2 on a grid. If you have a fairly standard 5 man party that is a cramped 10x10 camp or opened up to a more spacious 20x20 camp out in the open and needing guards all night.
B) It’s not a camping spell but if you need an hour rest to heal etc and don’t have mounts then there is Rope trick - up to 8 folks and if you pull up the rope there is no evidence that you are there so you can do some healing etc. just don’t bring a portable hole/bag of holding/ etc up with you.
C) Leo’s hut - a disguisable protected shelter roughly 300 sq ft in size that will take up to 9 creatures/ people of medium or smaller size. Make it look like a big rock or dolmen or top of a flatter hill and camp in fair safety for the night except you can’t take most mounts inside as they are large creatures so they will give you away if you have them. It also only lasts 8 hrs so don’t oversleep and the caster better have a chamber pot as they can’t leave without shutting it down. Sort of a waste of a L3 spell slot - it wouldn’t be so bad if it were level 1 or 2.
D) Galdur’s Tower - no hiding this one it’s a 20’ high 10’x10’ + wall thickness tower just standing there. But it does give you 200 sq. Ft of space (or more if cast at a higher level) which is enough to hold you, the party and your mounts if only barely for the night or as many days as you want to keep casting the spell for.
E) Mord’s sanctum isn’t a building but it does work well to hide a party and make them very difficult to find or spy on while hiding/camping etc. it doesn’t protect from weather but otherwise is a very solid spell.
F) Mord’s Mansion is the spell we all wish we had at lower levels. An extra dimensional space to rest and relax with space for the party, it’s gear and even its animals. When it’s entrance portal is closed it’s invisible so short of a detect magic or horizon walker’s portal detection ability so once in its unlikely you’ll be discovered and you have time to recover and prepare.
what I want is a spell that does a smaller version of the mansion at around spell level 2 or 3. A portal 5’ wide by 10’ high leading to an extra dimensional space of 300-400 sq.ft even if it has nothing else except a closable entrance that is invisible when closed is all you really need. But it should be not only a Wizard spell but a Druid and ranger spell as well since they will be using it most of all.
Daern's Instant Ruin: This is a Daern's Instant Fortress that has seen better days. It is missing its roof and one wall, and remaining walls have 5d20 hp each. Because of its extensive holes, the DC to avoid damage when it appears is only 10, and on a successful save no damage is taken.
Leo's Hut is a Wizard's ritual spell. You learn it and never use a slot to cast it. Ever. Effectively it is a cantrip that takes 10 minutes to cast that you can only learn after 5th level. Well worth taking.
I could see a Druid and/or Ranger spell, they both should have some kind of spell that protects them from weather and being found by beasts. It should be low level, especially as Rangers do not get 3rd level spells until 9th level. Forget about an extra-dimensional space or that huge size, too powerful.
I see a 2nd level Druid/Ranger only spell with a ten minute casting time that lets you turn a tree or bushes into a hut capable of holding 4 medium or smaller creatures. Have the door magically close and vanish into the woodwork. The plants erase tracks and scents in a thousand foot radius, and no noise can leave the hut. Animals you designate when casting will not stray far and will gain a +5 stealth bonus for the duration. When upcast, it contains +2 more people per level above 2nd.
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It works. It even works in combat during movement. Stop moping and read the rules. Galder's Tower is low level. It doesn't matter.
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If it comes up, I generally just treat them as squeezing (I also allow two non-hostile characters to occupy the same space in combat by squeezing). Technically that doesn't do anything for medium creatures, because small and medium creatures have the same space, but it's an easy thing to implement and covers a case that clearly should exist.
The number of times in the last 20 years where I've been in a game where a fight has broken out and there's been more people than could fit in a room if everyone had their own 5X5 space is... zero.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That's because D&D maps are built on a scale where putting everyone in a 5'x5' space works.
Are you going to fit mounts and pack animals in it? - NO but this is plenty of room to fit 5-8 people and gear for a night. It might be a little cramped with 8 but no worse that the 25 folks we stuffed into a floorless 10' radius old military tent one night in sub-freezing temperatures on a geology field trip and me managed to survive and stay warm. we are all used to modern large and spacious houses and apartments. Older (ie pre 1950) have smaller rooms and typically larger families and still had room. take a look at log cabins (try watching the show on the DIY channel) they were typically about the size we are talking about including 2 floors frequently and often held families of 5-10+ living in them for years not just a night or so.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
There is a slight size difference between the two spells, "Leomund's Tiny Hut" and "Galder's Tower". Tiny hut says nine creatures of medium size or smaller. My groups and I have always immediately noticed that this configuration is basically a 3x3 arrangement of 5 foot squares, thus room for 9 medium creatures. The Tower only provides 2 2x2 arrangements of 5 foot squares, thus 8 creatures. Very subtle difference, also Tower doesn't limit creature size. Nor does tower vanish when the caster leaves, nor specify an exit other than up to the next floor, or a window. Not sure how secure a place Tower is vs Tiny Hut, but they both have strong cases for being the better choice to take at level 5.
They way I look at it is how I view my own living space. My bedroom, where I currently type this, is approximately 12ft. x 12ft (I measured it badly with a tape measure and trying to spin on the spot). For the sake of simplicty we'll round this figure down to 10x10. In this bedroom going clockwise I have a chest of drawers, a bookshelf, a clothes rack, a bed, a closet for my boiler, some plastic boxes and a desk. It's pokey for two healthy human beings, more so if they're obese (like myself), but otherwise comfortable. Of the five places I've lived in (South & West Yorkshire, England), my current amount of space is the most I've had. Master bedrooms may be 15x15 feet, but I don't know of many council houses or flats that are much bigger, which is what I'm used to.
So no, I don't think Galder's Tower sucks. To me it'd be like a home away from home, especially when considering the possible conditions my adventuring party may encounter. It also helps I'm currently playing a claustrophiliac character who would love nothing more to be in such a tight dry space.
Zero is the most important number in D&D: Session Zero sets the boundaries and the tone; Rule Zero dictates the Dungeon Master (DM) is the final arbiter; and Zero D&D is better than Bad D&D.
"Let us speak plainly now, and in earnest, for words mean little without the weight of conviction."
- The Assemblage of Houses, World of Warcraft
Tiny Hut ends of the caster leaves the area.
5,000 sq feet is pretty good.
Pretty good? 5000 sq.ft. Is great - a typical American home is 1200-3500 sq.ft, a barn stall is 50sq.ft. (5x10) so you can fit a a full sized home with a bedroom for each party member AND a stable with a stall for every horse. In 5000 sq ft. TrueType a mansion.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Never really thought of it like that. For small races 2 floors of 100 sq ft is plenty. And its definitely enough for 1 person. Average tiny house is 225 sq ft in the USA.
I was as that was in response to the previous post about 5000 sq. Ft., galdurs tower has rooms about the size of a standard bedroom ( 9x11 to 9x12). It is not meant for a party but for a lone mage wanting a study place for an extended time hence the wording on how to extend it and make it permanent. Could it be used as an overnight camp? Sure but then yes it will be crowded and yes the animals will have to left outside. Galdur’s tower is an improvement on Leo’s hut but inferior to the various Mord.’s buildings in terms of space.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
I do not see Galder's tower as an improvement on Leo's Hut. Leo's Hut is clearly an overnight camp. You cannot even leave it without the spell ending. Galder's Tower is an inferior overnight camp. Mord' Private Sanctum is not a building or a camp, it is more like a Forbiddence or a Hallow - it makes an area where you do not have to worry about people listening in or popping in for a visit. Mord' Mansion is again, not really a building. It is a weaker version of the Demiplane spell with a few extra comforts. While Demiplane spell is not permanent, it does create a permanent location you can store things in. Mord's Mansion does make for a very luxirous overnight/all day camp, so it could be considered a combo Demiplane/Leo's Hut.
Galder's towers real use is something that does not otherwise exist - a way to permanently create a house for the wizard. Moreover, it is low enough level that a high level wizard could easily create 4 or more such houses every year. Quite reasonable, as he not only can use a higher slot, but he can also also prepare 4 extra scrolls for emergencies.
There are only two other spells that do anything similar: Wall of Stone, a 5th level spell, and Temple of the Gods, a 7th level Cleric spell. Wall of Stone is a better construction spell for general use, but it lacks the luxuries of Galdur's. And of course, you have to be at least 9th level to cast it. Most people could not afford to live in a Temple of the Gods, and even a high level cleric can only make one a year reliably (as it is quite possible you will end up using your 7th, 8th, and 9th level slots on a bad day.)
Galdur's Tower main use is clearly NOT for an adventurer, but instead a City Wizard that is making a living building luxury tiny homes. A mere 5th level Wizard can start his contractor business and make a nice living. I would expect renting out a private tiny house to go for at least 10 gp for a day, and you should be able to collect that at least 100 days each year, then sell the tiny house for at least 500 gp on top of the rental income. Assuming you rent it out for 100 out of the 365 days in a year, that should be a nice profit of 1500 gp a year. More then enough for a nice living.
No it isn't. Average house size is closer to 2250 square feet than 225.
There's mighty fortress, and you can probably combine multiple castings of fabricate to assemble a house from raw materials.
You are correct, Mighty Fortress, an 8th level spell also does it. Better than the others as it needs to be recast only once every 7 days, not to mention the luxuries and servants.
Fabricate is an other 5th level spell, and basically makes just the luxury part rather than the walls. It also requires you to buy raw materials, unless you just want to make adobe homes out of dirt. Honestly, I see Fabricate as more of a convert shit (literally in most cities) into items worth silver. Not really worth it to sell, not for a 5th limit spell. It shines as an adventurer spell, giving you the 1,000 ft of rope, row boat, collapsible ladder, or other such unexpectedly needed non-magical item. The real limit is it makes a single item, no larger than a 5ft cube (125 cubic feet max). Not as valuable as Wall of Stone that can be upto 10 panels each 10 ft x 20 ft x 1/4 ft (= 500 cubic feet). A single Wall of stone spell can make a hut 20 x 20 with a loft and a slanted roof or a 20x40 with no loft and a flat roof 800 square ft. Better idea is to do them row house style, sharing walls. that makes it 20x60 ft. Besides being a 5th level spell rather than 3rd, it also lacks all the luxuries.
It would take about 20 or so castings of Fabricate plus a casting of Wall of Stone to come close to Galders. You will end up missing the magical fireplaces and braziers. As they effectively provide heat and light without firewood, I think 365 casting of Galder's Tower (3rd level) makes something much better than a casting of Wall of Stone + 20 odd castings of Fabricate, all 5th level spells.
Yeah that wish stipulation seems really weird. I think most DMs would assume it could heal the whole thing if that wasn't in there. You can certainly use one wish to create something that is worth more than a new DIF would likely cost.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Ah, perfect annoying treasure: a heavily damaged Daern's Instant Fortress.
Lol very true
when looking at these spells it’s sort of helpful to actually start with what you have with out the spells- so here goes
A) no spell - camped out either in your bedroll (3x6-7’) with your gear in a separate pile about the same size and any mount taking up a third 5x10’ space - in game terms a block 2x3 or 3x3.
or, a two man tent holding you and your gear in a 5x10’ space with your mount and its gear in a second 5x10’ space or a block 2x2 on a grid. If you have a fairly standard 5 man party that is a cramped 10x10 camp or opened up to a more spacious 20x20 camp out in the open and needing guards all night.
B) It’s not a camping spell but if you need an hour rest to heal etc and don’t have mounts then there is Rope trick - up to 8 folks and if you pull up the rope there is no evidence that you are there so you can do some healing etc. just don’t bring a portable hole/bag of holding/ etc up with you.
C) Leo’s hut - a disguisable protected shelter roughly 300 sq ft in size that will take up to 9 creatures/ people of medium or smaller size. Make it look like a big rock or dolmen or top of a flatter hill and camp in fair safety for the night except you can’t take most mounts inside as they are large creatures so they will give you away if you have them. It also only lasts 8 hrs so don’t oversleep and the caster better have a chamber pot as they can’t leave without shutting it down. Sort of a waste of a L3 spell slot - it wouldn’t be so bad if it were level 1 or 2.
D) Galdur’s Tower - no hiding this one it’s a 20’ high 10’x10’ + wall thickness tower just standing there. But it does give you 200 sq. Ft of space (or more if cast at a higher level) which is enough to hold you, the party and your mounts if only barely for the night or as many days as you want to keep casting the spell for.
E) Mord’s sanctum isn’t a building but it does work well to hide a party and make them very difficult to find or spy on while hiding/camping etc. it doesn’t protect from weather but otherwise is a very solid spell.
F) Mord’s Mansion is the spell we all wish we had at lower levels. An extra dimensional space to rest and relax with space for the party, it’s gear and even its animals. When it’s entrance portal is closed it’s invisible so short of a detect magic or horizon walker’s portal detection ability so once in its unlikely you’ll be discovered and you have time to recover and prepare.
what I want is a spell that does a smaller version of the mansion at around spell level 2 or 3. A portal 5’ wide by 10’ high leading to an extra dimensional space of 300-400 sq.ft even if it has nothing else except a closable entrance that is invisible when closed is all you really need. But it should be not only a Wizard spell but a Druid and ranger spell as well since they will be using it most of all.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Daern's Instant Ruin: This is a Daern's Instant Fortress that has seen better days. It is missing its roof and one wall, and remaining walls have 5d20 hp each. Because of its extensive holes, the DC to avoid damage when it appears is only 10, and on a successful save no damage is taken.
Leo's Hut is a Wizard's ritual spell. You learn it and never use a slot to cast it. Ever. Effectively it is a cantrip that takes 10 minutes to cast that you can only learn after 5th level. Well worth taking.
I could see a Druid and/or Ranger spell, they both should have some kind of spell that protects them from weather and being found by beasts. It should be low level, especially as Rangers do not get 3rd level spells until 9th level. Forget about an extra-dimensional space or that huge size, too powerful.
I see a 2nd level Druid/Ranger only spell with a ten minute casting time that lets you turn a tree or bushes into a hut capable of holding 4 medium or smaller creatures. Have the door magically close and vanish into the woodwork. The plants erase tracks and scents in a thousand foot radius, and no noise can leave the hut. Animals you designate when casting will not stray far and will gain a +5 stealth bonus for the duration. When upcast, it contains +2 more people per level above 2nd.