Here's the ONLY issue I have currently; at the 7:20 mark he talks about the digital books and beginning at 7:29 he states "Once you unlock that content you get that copy of that book digitally, but then you'll also get all the other things that I described...". Now that's not a promise or a binding contract, so I'm not beating on my chest saying "you HAVE to give me this, you said so!". It could have been a poor choice of words on his part or me reading too much into those words on mine, but I do want a digital copy of the book as well as the integrated, searchable content on DDB. I'd even be willing to spend an extra $5.00 to get that.
Just going to pipe in here and say ditto, on wanting a digital copy of the books as well. In addition to noting that while many of his other comments were responded to, that bit about the video telling us "you get a copy of that book digitally" went completely unanswered. Any clarification available here from DDB? (Note I, also, am not here to scream "but he said!")
Here's the ONLY issue I have currently; at the 7:20 mark he talks about the digital books and beginning at 7:29 he states "Once you unlock that content you get that copy of that book digitally, but then you'll also get all the other things that I described...". Now that's not a promise or a binding contract, so I'm not beating on my chest saying "you HAVE to give me this, you said so!". It could have been a poor choice of words on his part or me reading too much into those words on mine, but I do want a digital copy of the book as well as the integrated, searchable content on DDB. I'd even be willing to spend an extra $5.00 to get that.
Just going to pipe in here and say ditto, on wanting a digital copy of the books as well. In addition to noting that while many of his other comments were responded to, that bit about the video telling us "you get a copy of that book digitally" went completely unanswered. Any clarification available here from DDB? (Note I, also, am not here to scream "but he said!")
If you have purchased a book from the Marketplace, you'll find it in the Compendium.
When I saw that video, I was expecting a PDF version of the books in addition to the compendium stuff.
I'm happy with how it is now, but I'd be happier with a legal offline version
There will be an app with offline viewing and searching of the content coming out soon. No date has been established yet though.
The problem with digital rights management (DRM) on pdfs is that it's not actually very secure and can often be cracked and then distributed illegally. And neither WotC nor Curse would want to take that chance. Some additional details about pdf drm here.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
All good news then. Awesome. =) Not sure it's practical to avoid PDFs at this point... that would be like the RIAA trying to avoid MP3s... but I do get the concerns. Looking forward to an offline way to access the compendium when the net isn't readily available.
I understand the fact some part of the discusion about the fact that we have to pay for servicies as steam do for exemple. But if I buy a physical version of my game, Steam provides me a digital version Also.
But if I understand well, in the case of DDB I have to buy BOTH if I want also the same content on DDB? If I allready have a physical book, shoold I have an access to the content on DDB, no ? It seems fair enought for me regarding the fact that lot of player (I mean DM) allready bought or plan to buy books, even if they use DDB, also we can still subscribe or buy other stuff on the website.
I understand the fact some part of the discusion about the fact that we have to pay for servicies as steam do for exemple. But if I buy a physical version of my game, Steam provides me a digital version Also.
But if I understand well, in the case of DDB I have to buy BOTH if I want also the same content on DDB? If I allready have a physical book, shoold I have an access to the content on DDB, no ? It seems fair enought for me regarding the fact that lot of player (I mean DM) allready bought or plan to buy books, even if they use DDB, also we can still subscribe or buy other stuff on the website.
My use of Steam as an example was solely about the comparison of trust in that the company won't fail.
In the case of physical vs digital copy. The comparison doesn't work, because on Steam the digital copy is sold by the same company that makes the physical copy. That is not the case here.
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How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat On - Mod Hat Off
I don't only play D&D and I go long lulls between campaigns sometimes as much as a year. What I want is a subscription model so that while I'm active I can activate it, pay and use it with access to all content and when I'm not I want to turn it off and stop paying. Paying something like 10 bucks a month for a few months during a campaign is fine, even if in the end it costs more then the price of the books, because its a small monthly fee as opposed to justification for one large sum.
I'm in the same boat as you as far as not only playing D&D, and going long periods between D&D campaigns (haven't played D&D in 2 or 3 months currently, and don't anticipate a new D&D campaign hitting my table any time in the next 6-9 months at least).
I am lost, however, at how you don't feel like there is something unreasonable with what you are saying you want. I mean, you are saying that you want access to literally the entire current library of game content that has been put out, and you want that for $60 because you are running a 6-month campaign. Then maybe two years and another few hundred dollars worth of material releases down the road, you want another all-access 6-month campaign for another $60... so you basically want to pay for a little more than 2 books, and get - in a practical sense - literally all of the books there are.
Is the disconnect between our views really just that you see the physical books as a "its forever" guarantee (which they aren't - books that are lost or damaged are gone, and there is no telling when that could happen, trust me, I lost my entire collection of, well, pretty much everything except what I could fit on my person and in a single backpack once and had almost no warning it was actually going to happen - Yay, hurricanes!), but can't see the digital books as being just as "its forever" (which they are, because backing up digital stuff so it is more capable of surviving loss or damage is a whole bunch easier than with physical stuff)?
I understand the fact some part of the discusion about the fact that we have to pay for servicies as steam do for exemple. But if I buy a physical version of my game, Steam provides me a digital version Also.
But if I understand well, in the case of DDB I have to buy BOTH if I want also the same content on DDB? If I allready have a physical book, shoold I have an access to the content on DDB, no ? It seems fair enought for me regarding the fact that lot of player (I mean DM) allready bought or plan to buy books, even if they use DDB, also we can still subscribe or buy other stuff on the website.
Curse didn't sell you the physical books, WotC did. WotC and Curse are not the same. WotC does not own Curse, Twitch does. Curse bought a license to use the D&D name and rules in a digital solution. This is why we don't get a "free" copy for having bought the physical books, they are from two different companies.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Curse didn't sell you the physical books, WotC did. WotC and Curse are not the same. WotC does not own Curse, Twitch does. Curse bought a license to use the D&D name and rules in a digital solution. This is why we don't get a "free" copy for having bought the physical books, they are from two different companies.
Ok, I understand the economic arangement behind, even if i desagree with it. Too bad, I will keep an eyes on DDB but, for the moment, I am not attract with the economic model.
Read and understood but it doesn't lessen the pain of knowing that it is just a service and a steep one at that when you add it all up (for the books you've already purchased). Yes, I know we are all more accustomed to paying for digital services and subs, so as you said there probably isn't as much angst there and we all understand when Netflix eventually goes away that we just stop paying for the service. In a similar vein, when i-Tunes or Amazon Music are no more, I don't worry about any of the subs but I still have downloaded music on my physical hard drives. Those services got me to a certain point and I was willing to pay for them.
But with Beyond from Curse, when they fold, all those digital books I bought just disappear (unless I'm missing something or there is some future compromise that when they do go away as a service you can then download your digital books, which could still be an option). I'm good with a sub, when the service ends the sub ends. I'm less enthused about paying for something beyond a sub, that when the service ends my $ just goes "poof". Yes for me this even applies to cosmetic items in games/MMOs. I can swallow the sub, but then the cool thing for my character or ship down the line is just going to eventually be worthless when said game is no longer relevant.
Now I'm not trying to be the gloom and doom here, this is just one opinion. And no I'm not crazy enough to think that Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, or even Curse are going away any time soon, but no business will last forever. So I guess the thought is I *could* pay for it because perhaps it will outlast me!
Read and understood but it doesn't lessen the pain of knowing that it is just a service and a steep one at that when you add it all up (for the books you've already purchased). Yes, I know we are all more accustomed to paying for digital services and subs, so as you said there probably isn't as much angst there and we all understand when Netflix eventually goes away that we just stop paying for the service. In a similar vein, when i-Tunes or Amazon Music are no more, I don't worry about any of the subs but I still have downloaded music on my physical hard drives. Those services got me to a certain point and I was willing to pay for them.
But with Beyond from Curse, when they fold, all those digital books I bought just disappear (unless I'm missing something or there is some future compromise that when they do go away as a service you can then download your digital books, which could still be an option). I'm good with a sub, when the service ends the sub ends. I'm less enthused about paying for something beyond a sub, that when the service ends my $ just goes "poof". Yes for me this even applies to cosmetic items in games/MMOs. I can swallow the sub, but then the cool thing for my character or ship down the line is just going to eventually be worthless when said game is no longer relevant.
Now I'm not trying to be the gloom and doom here, this is just one opinion. And no I'm not crazy enough to think that Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, or even Curse are going away any time soon, but no business will last forever. So I guess the thought is I *could* pay for it because perhaps it will outlast me!
Later,
~Jer
Yes, if Curse goes away so do your access to the digital copy online. Once we get the app, it is supposed to include offline access, which would require that the content be on your device locally. If Curse closed shop, potentially you would still have access via the app, provided it doesn't require checking a license key against a database that ceases to exist.
Of course now that we have a digital version, if you are worried about losing it, you could copy and paste to a local document on your own computer for personal use, like in OneNote.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
"Of course now that we have a digital version, if you are worried about losing it, you could copy and paste to a local document on your own computer for personal use, like in OneNote."
Do we really know that for sure at this point now? Can a paying customer confirm that they get a PDF or copy they can save to their computer with a cut and paste where it actually still works and isn't "uncopyable" like a PDF somethings is? I understood this as part of the issue, I get access to the content using the website, so there is nothing for me to save, its content that is segmented in a special website with functionality features, it's not like a stand alone SRD doc or an area where I can import/archive a whole section of the book.
And yeah, if I *could* just cut and paste into another document, why would I do that if I already have the book. So I guess that is the other thing (that I'm sure has been complained about ad nauseam), I just recently paid over $140 on books to get back into D&D. This Beyond service would have been much better had I never made those purchases.
Anyway, I know it won't change, Curse has to run a business... just don't know that I'll support it.
"Of course now that we have a digital version, if you are worried about losing it, you could copy and paste to a local document on your own computer for personal use, like in OneNote."
Do we really know that for sure at this point now? Can a paying customer confirm that they get a PDF or copy they can save to their computer with a cut and paste where it actually still works and isn't "uncopyable" like a PDF somethings is? I understood this as part of the issue, I get access to the content using the website, so there is nothing for me to save, its content that is segmented in a special website with functionality features, it's not like a stand alone SRD doc or an area where I can import/archive a whole section of the book.
And yeah, if I *could* just cut and paste into another document, why would I do that if I already have the book. So I guess that is the other thing (that I'm sure has been complained about ad nauseam), I just recently paid over $140 on books to get back into D&D. This Beyond service would have been much better had I never made those purchases.
Anyway, I know it won't change, Curse has to run a business... just don't know that I'll support it.
Later,
~Jer
JOCool: There will be noPDF copy, that has been stated repeatedly. There is going to be an app, and that app is supposed to provide offline access, this is something they have promised as a major reason to buy in.
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
One big selling point for me was the maps. I project my maps down onto a table where the players move their miniatures. Not having to map saves the players and myself sooo much time. If you purchase the maps from the original artists they are not cheap. With DDB you get the maps as part of the mod. That's awesome!
Curse can't really do anything about past purchases. All they can do is create a format that's the superior way to buy D&D content going forward. And frankly, I feel like PDF and hard copy is past their prime. I've written tooling software for RPGs(a Pathfinder Maptool token creator) and PDF is useless for reading from despite it being "digital". It's a really horrible digital format for anything other than acting like a book. I ended up using Hero Lab files as my Pathfinder API, so if you purchased Hero Lab content I could port that into Maptool, because it was an actual readable digital format.
Give me a decent API to DnDBeyond and I can do the same. Buy your copy of the Monster Manual here and you can read it like a book(mobile app), print monster cards, and allow third party tool writers like me to work with your purchases for combat trackers, VTT converters and so on. As the years go on your copy of the Beyond Monster Manual should improve in value as Curse and third parties add functionality.
Curse can't really do anything about past purchases. All they can do is create a format that's the superior way to buy D&D content going forward. And frankly, I feel like PDF and hard copy is past their prime. I've written tooling software for RPGs(a Pathfinder Maptool token creator) and PDF is useless for reading from despite it being "digital". It's a really horrible digital format for anything other than acting like a book. I ended up using Hero Lab files as my Pathfinder API, so if you purchased Hero Lab content I could port that into Maptool, because it was an actual readable digital format.
Give me a decent API to DnDBeyond and I can do the same. Buy your copy of the Monster Manual here and you can read it like a book(mobile app), print monster cards, and allow third party tool writers like me to work with your purchases for combat trackers, VTT converters and so on. As the years go on your copy of the Beyond Monster Manual should improve in value as Curse and third parties add functionality.
Hard agree with you. PDFs feel low-tech compared to this site. I don't see why there's even a comparison.
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When I saw that video, I was expecting a PDF version of the books in addition to the compendium stuff.
I'm happy with how it is now, but I'd be happier with a legal offline version
Feature Requests || Homebrew FAQ || Pricing FAQ || Hardcovers FAQ || Snippet Codes || Tooltips
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All good news then. Awesome. =) Not sure it's practical to avoid PDFs at this point... that would be like the RIAA trying to avoid MP3s... but I do get the concerns. Looking forward to an offline way to access the compendium when the net isn't readily available.
I understand the fact some part of the discusion about the fact that we have to pay for servicies as steam do for exemple. But if I buy a physical version of my game, Steam provides me a digital version Also.
But if I understand well, in the case of DDB I have to buy BOTH if I want also the same content on DDB? If I allready have a physical book, shoold I have an access to the content on DDB, no ?
It seems fair enought for me regarding the fact that lot of player (I mean DM) allready bought or plan to buy books, even if they use DDB, also we can still subscribe or buy other stuff on the website.
Feature Requests || Homebrew FAQ || Pricing FAQ || Hardcovers FAQ || Snippet Codes || Tooltips
DDB Guides & FAQs, Class Guides, Character Builds, Game Guides, Useful Websites, and WOTC Resources
I'm in the same boat as you as far as not only playing D&D, and going long periods between D&D campaigns (haven't played D&D in 2 or 3 months currently, and don't anticipate a new D&D campaign hitting my table any time in the next 6-9 months at least).
I am lost, however, at how you don't feel like there is something unreasonable with what you are saying you want. I mean, you are saying that you want access to literally the entire current library of game content that has been put out, and you want that for $60 because you are running a 6-month campaign. Then maybe two years and another few hundred dollars worth of material releases down the road, you want another all-access 6-month campaign for another $60... so you basically want to pay for a little more than 2 books, and get - in a practical sense - literally all of the books there are.
Is the disconnect between our views really just that you see the physical books as a "its forever" guarantee (which they aren't - books that are lost or damaged are gone, and there is no telling when that could happen, trust me, I lost my entire collection of, well, pretty much everything except what I could fit on my person and in a single backpack once and had almost no warning it was actually going to happen - Yay, hurricanes!), but can't see the digital books as being just as "its forever" (which they are, because backing up digital stuff so it is more capable of surviving loss or damage is a whole bunch easier than with physical stuff)?
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Too bad, I will keep an eyes on DDB but, for the moment, I am not attract with the economic model.
Read and understood but it doesn't lessen the pain of knowing that it is just a service and a steep one at that when you add it all up (for the books you've already purchased). Yes, I know we are all more accustomed to paying for digital services and subs, so as you said there probably isn't as much angst there and we all understand when Netflix eventually goes away that we just stop paying for the service. In a similar vein, when i-Tunes or Amazon Music are no more, I don't worry about any of the subs but I still have downloaded music on my physical hard drives. Those services got me to a certain point and I was willing to pay for them.
But with Beyond from Curse, when they fold, all those digital books I bought just disappear (unless I'm missing something or there is some future compromise that when they do go away as a service you can then download your digital books, which could still be an option). I'm good with a sub, when the service ends the sub ends. I'm less enthused about paying for something beyond a sub, that when the service ends my $ just goes "poof". Yes for me this even applies to cosmetic items in games/MMOs. I can swallow the sub, but then the cool thing for my character or ship down the line is just going to eventually be worthless when said game is no longer relevant.
Now I'm not trying to be the gloom and doom here, this is just one opinion. And no I'm not crazy enough to think that Netflix, Amazon, iTunes, or even Curse are going away any time soon, but no business will last forever. So I guess the thought is I *could* pay for it because perhaps it will outlast me!
Later,
~Jer
"Fumble! Roll d20 to see if you hit yourself."
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
"Fumble! Roll d20 to see if you hit yourself."
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
This thread should be stickied and as a click through that says, "You must read this as a condition before posting to the forums."
Yeah, unfortunately I'm sure this won't cut down on "Y NO DROW/ANY NON-FREE CONTENT. BUT MUH PHYSICAL COPIES" posts.
One big selling point for me was the maps. I project my maps down onto a table where the players move their miniatures. Not having to map saves the players and myself sooo much time. If you purchase the maps from the original artists they are not cheap. With DDB you get the maps as part of the mod. That's awesome!
Curse can't really do anything about past purchases. All they can do is create a format that's the superior way to buy D&D content going forward. And frankly, I feel like PDF and hard copy is past their prime. I've written tooling software for RPGs(a Pathfinder Maptool token creator) and PDF is useless for reading from despite it being "digital". It's a really horrible digital format for anything other than acting like a book. I ended up using Hero Lab files as my Pathfinder API, so if you purchased Hero Lab content I could port that into Maptool, because it was an actual readable digital format.
Give me a decent API to DnDBeyond and I can do the same. Buy your copy of the Monster Manual here and you can read it like a book(mobile app), print monster cards, and allow third party tool writers like me to work with your purchases for combat trackers, VTT converters and so on. As the years go on your copy of the Beyond Monster Manual should improve in value as Curse and third parties add functionality.