When the DM magically teleports you away from a fight in the middle of the fight, that's a sign. When the DM has you take damage without an attack roll, that's a sign. When the DM has you arrested, that's a sign. Take a break from the role-playing, talk to the DM, in private messaging if you like, and say 'look, my character is doing X because Y. It looks like you don't want that to happen, but I can't think of a way for my character to react to this situation that doesn't involve X." Hopefully they help you figure something out, even if it's 'the guards arrest you, knock you out, get a cleric to cast calm emotions and then someone goes and finds your yeti.' But the DM tells you to stop, even indirectly, like they did, you stop.
I know of a CE character that has the ability and wants to see the world burn. ...but she RPs cooperatively, and everyone has fun with her character. They play off of her tendencies and, together, use it to add to the whole story without disrupting the campaign or overriding anyone else's stories.
Hobomurderers in a party tend to dominate the party and story. Everyone else begins to see them as selfish players OOC. Hobomurderers usually make it all about themselves with no input from the rest of the party.
D&D RP is cooperative. Hobomurderers usually are not.
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Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
After reading the PbP link I would not consider you a murderhobo. You were acting like a stubborn dwarf, you made the goal of your dwarf painfully obvious in just about every post you wrote and none of the other characters actually made an attempt to calm you down. ("Don't be rash, friend dwarf" will not be enough if someones child was murdered...).
The problems on page 50-53 were mostly caused by the DM. First off, it was obvious you thought Slough to be an enemy. The DM let you encounter him randomly while you were not even looking for him. What did they expect to happen? If the BBEG shows up before a PC a combat is at least likely, if not inevitable. They then pulled a Deus Ex Machina to end the combat they started and teleport you away. After you stated you'd go back to finish the job (perfectly reasonable reaction), they pulled an even bigger Deus Ex Machina and had the magic MacGuffin teleport the entire group half a continent away.
The citizen.... why did she appear there? Why did she attack you with lethal force? (HP damage is lethal). Why did anyone expect an enraged dwarf to answer kindly to such an attack?
Overall your character probably didn't fit with the rest if the group and the DM imho did a rather poor job of handling that. Instead of pulling in-game shenanigans just tell the player: " You can get your vengeance later, I promise, but right now I need you to help the rest of the party with the snowflake as that's the story I spent x hours on preparing. So when one of the other PCs talks to you, please have Anthony calm down and continue with the rest of the party."
My two cents: contrary to popular belief, D&D is not a game where you can do whatever you want. It's a cooperative storytelling/tactical game. The heroes are expected to work together, both in following the plot and defeating the monsters. That's not to say there can't be conflict or even outright combat between player characters, but that it's part of the story, and everyone enjoys it no matter who wins. If you create a character who can't work together, that takes away from the DM's focus, the players' camaraderie, and everyone's fun. That character isn't a D&D character, because D&D is a cooperative game, and that isn't cooperative. Either your character needs to be a cooperative character, or you (not the DM, you) need to find a reason for them to act like one.
That said, murdering villages can maybe be fun...but only if everyone, including the DM, has agreed that's what's going to happen! Cooperative murderhoboing.
I said I was done, but that was before this video came out on how/why to make characters likable, which I think perfectly encapsulates the issue here. Well worth a watch:
I said I was done, but that was before this video came out on how/why to make characters likable, which I think perfectly encapsulates the issue here. Well worth a watch:
The citizen.... why did she appear there? Why did she attack you with lethal force? (HP damage is lethal). Why did anyone expect an enraged dwarf to answer kindly to such an attack?
He had tried to rob her earlier. That means he actually attacked first, even if it was by way of attempted theft rather than attempted murder. "How dare you be angry with me for trying to rob you, I will kill you!" is still a murder hobo attitude, even if his character was angry for other reasons at the time. OOC, he also seemed upset that he did not see any roll to hit him.
Are you seriously arguing that a rogue should not pickpocket NPCs? Even if you think so, breaking the rules by just stating that the random citizen just hits and harms the character is still really low and I don't know a player who wouldn't be upset. It's only a bit above "Rocks fall, you die."
It's also the second time in two forum pages that the DM plants an obviously hostile NPC in the way of the player and apparently is surprised combat happens...
That's not a murder hobo player, just a poor DM decision. A murder hobo would go on a "berserk rage rampage" and attempt to kill the guards and nearby citizens as well after that trigger. Or don't need a trigger in the first place.
The citizen.... why did she appear there? Why did she attack you with lethal force? (HP damage is lethal). Why did anyone expect an enraged dwarf to answer kindly to such an attack?
He had tried to rob her earlier. That means he actually attacked first, even if it was by way of attempted theft rather than attempted murder. "How dare you be angry with me for trying to rob you, I will kill you!" is still a murder hobo attitude, even if his character was angry for other reasons at the time. OOC, he also seemed upset that he did not see any roll to hit him.
Are you seriously arguing that a rogue should not pickpocket NPCs? Even if you think so, breaking the rules by just stating that the random citizen just hits and harms the character is still really low and I don't know a player who wouldn't be upset. It's only a bit above "Rocks fall, you die."
It's also the second time in two forum pages that the DM plants an obviously hostile NPC in the way of the player and apparently is surprised combat happens...
That's not a murder hobo player, just a poor DM decision. A murder hobo would go on a "berserk rage rampage" and attempt to kill the guards and nearby citizens as well after that trigger. Or don't need a trigger in the first place.
I am seriously arguing that a rogue should not get angry at their victims if their victims object to being robbed. Or more accurately, that the player should not get upset that a victim of their character might be angry. Robbing yes. Robbing indiscriminately? That is another matter. Having no remorse at the consequences of one's thefts is not that different from no remorse at the consequences of one's murders.
I can see the commoner attacking at the time of the attempted pick pocket, but a few days later sees the rogue but having time to calm down and seeing them well armed call for a constable or such. Attacking a well armed individual is a stupid thing to do.
The citizen.... why did she appear there? Why did she attack you with lethal force? (HP damage is lethal). Why did anyone expect an enraged dwarf to answer kindly to such an attack?
He had tried to rob her earlier. That means he actually attacked first, even if it was by way of attempted theft rather than attempted murder. "How dare you be angry with me for trying to rob you, I will kill you!" is still a murder hobo attitude, even if his character was angry for other reasons at the time. OOC, he also seemed upset that he did not see any roll to hit him.
Are you seriously arguing that a rogue should not pickpocket NPCs? Even if you think so, breaking the rules by just stating that the random citizen just hits and harms the character is still really low and I don't know a player who wouldn't be upset. It's only a bit above "Rocks fall, you die."
It's also the second time in two forum pages that the DM plants an obviously hostile NPC in the way of the player and apparently is surprised combat happens...
That's not a murder hobo player, just a poor DM decision. A murder hobo would go on a "berserk rage rampage" and attempt to kill the guards and nearby citizens as well after that trigger. Or don't need a trigger in the first place.
I am seriously arguing that a rogue should not get angry at their victims if their victims object to being robbed. Or more accurately, that the player should not get upset that a victim of their character might be angry. Robbing yes. Robbing indiscriminately? That is another matter. Having no remorse at the consequences of one's thefts is not that different from no remorse at the consequences of one's murders.
I can see the commoner attacking at the time of the attempted pick pocket, but a few days later sees the rogue but having time to calm down and seeing them well armed call for a constable or such. Attacking a well armed individual is a stupid thing to do.
It does not matter whether it was intelligent or stupid of them. Someone still tried to rob them. And if they have been robbed too many times before they might well have had that level of anger. They are a peasant and may well be disrespected for their poverty by law enforcement as well. And this wasn't any false accusation. The PC really did try to rob them. Would the player have been happier if the peasant instead did alert the guards, they believed the peasant and now the 'angry dwarf' was taking on the city guard? Who at least collectively, almost certainly do have the power and authority to arrest or kill said dwarf?
The NPC already knocked me out (with one punch, without rolling to hit or damage). I also got absolutely nothing from the attempted pick-pocket, so she had no reason to attack me. I could also take on several guards. In another campaign, one player removed a dozen of them in one turn (he was lvl 3). I was lvl 6.
The NPC already knocked me out (with one punch, without rolling to hit or damage). I also got absolutely nothing from the attempted pick-pocket, so she had no reason to attack me.
The last person who tried to pickpocket me IRL I threw across a room. They got nothing either. That does not stop the intended victim from being angry. Of course that was at the time, I didn’t run into the thief again two days later.
The NPC already knocked me out (with one punch, without rolling to hit or damage). I also got absolutely nothing from the attempted pick-pocket, so she had no reason to attack me.
Maybe she was a murderhobo NPC. Maybe she had an evil alignment. Maybe she had unsuccessfully tried getting a job with the town guard, and was looking to take you down and bring you in as proof of her abilities. She's not your character, so you have no way of knowing the reasoning. NPCs are characters too.
It is understandable of a rogue to try to rob someone. This is just rogues being rogues. But, if you were attacked by the person you tried to rob, that was self defense.
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Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Murder Hobos can be fun when it is designed for the whole party to enjoy as some form of one-shot, especially when tailored to each players individual style. As a dm, I would only tolerate it to a certain extent-when my players become uncomfortable or express concern/there is no other purpose to the character.
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That was the murderhobo part.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Content Troubleshooting
I know of a CE character that has the ability and wants to see the world burn. ...but she RPs cooperatively, and everyone has fun with her character. They play off of her tendencies and, together, use it to add to the whole story without disrupting the campaign or overriding anyone else's stories.
Hobomurderers in a party tend to dominate the party and story. Everyone else begins to see them as selfish players OOC. Hobomurderers usually make it all about themselves with no input from the rest of the party.
D&D RP is cooperative. Hobomurderers usually are not.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
After reading the PbP link I would not consider you a murderhobo. You were acting like a stubborn dwarf, you made the goal of your dwarf painfully obvious in just about every post you wrote and none of the other characters actually made an attempt to calm you down. ("Don't be rash, friend dwarf" will not be enough if someones child was murdered...).
The problems on page 50-53 were mostly caused by the DM. First off, it was obvious you thought Slough to be an enemy. The DM let you encounter him randomly while you were not even looking for him. What did they expect to happen? If the BBEG shows up before a PC a combat is at least likely, if not inevitable. They then pulled a Deus Ex Machina to end the combat they started and teleport you away. After you stated you'd go back to finish the job (perfectly reasonable reaction), they pulled an even bigger Deus Ex Machina and had the magic MacGuffin teleport the entire group half a continent away.
The citizen.... why did she appear there? Why did she attack you with lethal force? (HP damage is lethal). Why did anyone expect an enraged dwarf to answer kindly to such an attack?
Overall your character probably didn't fit with the rest if the group and the DM imho did a rather poor job of handling that. Instead of pulling in-game shenanigans just tell the player: " You can get your vengeance later, I promise, but right now I need you to help the rest of the party with the snowflake as that's the story I spent x hours on preparing. So when one of the other PCs talks to you, please have Anthony calm down and continue with the rest of the party."
It's even a nice story hook for later events...
My two cents: contrary to popular belief, D&D is not a game where you can do whatever you want. It's a cooperative storytelling/tactical game. The heroes are expected to work together, both in following the plot and defeating the monsters. That's not to say there can't be conflict or even outright combat between player characters, but that it's part of the story, and everyone enjoys it no matter who wins. If you create a character who can't work together, that takes away from the DM's focus, the players' camaraderie, and everyone's fun. That character isn't a D&D character, because D&D is a cooperative game, and that isn't cooperative. Either your character needs to be a cooperative character, or you (not the DM, you) need to find a reason for them to act like one.
That said, murdering villages can maybe be fun...but only if everyone, including the DM, has agreed that's what's going to happen! Cooperative murderhoboing.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I said I was done, but that was before this video came out on how/why to make characters likable, which I think perfectly encapsulates the issue here. Well worth a watch:
https://youtu.be/0dnRaqsEqSg
That was a very good video!
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Are you seriously arguing that a rogue should not pickpocket NPCs? Even if you think so, breaking the rules by just stating that the random citizen just hits and harms the character is still really low and I don't know a player who wouldn't be upset. It's only a bit above "Rocks fall, you die."
It's also the second time in two forum pages that the DM plants an obviously hostile NPC in the way of the player and apparently is surprised combat happens...
That's not a murder hobo player, just a poor DM decision. A murder hobo would go on a "berserk rage rampage" and attempt to kill the guards and nearby citizens as well after that trigger. Or don't need a trigger in the first place.
I can see the commoner attacking at the time of the attempted pick pocket, but a few days later sees the rogue but having time to calm down and seeing them well armed call for a constable or such. Attacking a well armed individual is a stupid thing to do.
Murder Hobos just ruin the game for everyone else.
There is no dawn after eternal night.
Homebrew: Magic items, Subclasses
The NPC already knocked me out (with one punch, without rolling to hit or damage). I also got absolutely nothing from the attempted pick-pocket, so she had no reason to attack me. I could also take on several guards. In another campaign, one player removed a dozen of them in one turn (he was lvl 3). I was lvl 6.
Cult of Sedge
Rangers are the best, and have always been the best
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Warrior Bovine
In answering the topic. They are the most annoying pricks to ever have at your table.
The last person who tried to pickpocket me IRL I threw across a room. They got nothing either. That does not stop the intended victim from being angry. Of course that was at the time, I didn’t run into the thief again two days later.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Maybe she was a murderhobo NPC. Maybe she had an evil alignment. Maybe she had unsuccessfully tried getting a job with the town guard, and was looking to take you down and bring you in as proof of her abilities. She's not your character, so you have no way of knowing the reasoning. NPCs are characters too.
It is understandable of a rogue to try to rob someone. This is just rogues being rogues. But, if you were attacked by the person you tried to rob, that was self defense.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Murderhoboing can be difficult to deal with. Often, I've had to just not play with them anymore.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Murder Hobos can be fun when it is designed for the whole party to enjoy as some form of one-shot, especially when tailored to each players individual style. As a dm, I would only tolerate it to a certain extent-when my players become uncomfortable or express concern/there is no other purpose to the character.