It is a long shot I know, but I need some help with translating a character name from a Chinese name to an English name. The name I want to convert is; Wáng Lóng, which Google Translate, says is 王龙 in simplified Chinese.
I am hoping to convert; Wáng Lóng, into the most proper English name, as I want to give that converted name to a character.
If anybody knows both Chinese and English and is also willing to help me convert the Chinese name to an English name, I would be eternally grateful.
Like I say, its probably a long shot, but I don't have anyone else to ask, so thought I would put it out there into the public domain, to get some help from all you legends out there, hopefully,
Cheers
Foxes
XD
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A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Names don't 'translate' like how you're asking. If someone's name in Cantonese or Mandarin is Wáng Lóng when you romanise it, that is the proper 'translation'. This is effectively like asking what the 'proper' translation of John Smith is in French. It's still John Smith.
The language I am studying at school is Chinese, so I can help you out a little bit with this. In China, names are often made up of two words with meanings. I know that Long means dragon, and one translation of Wang is ruler or king, so the name roughly means "King Dragon." You don't tend to call someone "King Dragon", so I would stick to using the Chinese name.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
When it comes to name translations, there are really traditions, rather than rules. Worse, over time, the translations get twisted.
The worst one such twisting that I am aware of is this.
There was never any person named Jesus of Nazareth. There was a very kind person that went by the name of Yeshua (pronounced like Yea Shoe Ah) of Nazareth. Jews still use that name with a slight twist, calling their kids Joshua or Josh for short. But the Romans were totally unable or willing to use the name Yeshua or Joshua. So they re-wrote his name and pronounced it Jesus.
Names don't 'translate' like how you're asking. If someone's name in Cantonese or Mandarin is Wáng Lóng when you romanise it, that is the proper 'translation'. This is effectively like asking what the 'proper' translation of John Smith is in French. It's still John Smith.
That is not actually strictly true. Technically 'John' is spelled 'Jean' in French. Surnames are not normally translated, but given names often are, when there is a convenient translation.
That is not correct. John is spelled John in French. If you're English and named John and go to France, if someone writes your name down as "Jean," they are wrong. Jean is the French equivalent of John, but they are different names.
Transliteration is different of course, Romanization of Russian or Japanese names, for example. Wáng Lóng is one possible transliteration of 王龙, but it's not really a translation. Names are usually left untranslated, though they have been translated historically by, for example, Europeans who just couldn't deal with American Indian names. That kind of thing is less common these days for imperialism reasons.
The language I am studying at school is Chinese, so I can help you out a little bit with this. In China, names are often made up of two words with meanings. I know that Long means dragon, and one translation of Wang is ruler or king, so the name roughly means "King Dragon." You don't tend to call someone "King Dragon", so I would stick to using the Chinese name.
Your answer has helped me out a lot, even if the name; Wáng Lóng, does not translate the way I was thinking, your translation of King Dragon, has set me down a different path. Rather than directly converting the name in the way I was initially going for, I can take the translation of "King Dragon" and translate the meaning into English instead.
For example; in Latin, Rex means King. Rex is also an English name, so that gives me the first name of Rex. Next, if we assume that this character would have the in-game equivalent of Chinese ancestry (based upon his name), then we can keep the surname Long, giving us the name, Rex Long.
Now we have; Rex Long, the Rogue Swashbuckler, and former pirate, with the sailor background; who grew up in a middle-class merchant family, and developed a love of books as a child, thanks to his parents owning a second-hand bookstore.
Already the character is beginning to take shape, by just translating the meaning of a name from Chinese to English and adding in a few eccentric flourishes.
I am not entirely sure if this is how translation/localisation works or not, but still, your answer has sparked something in me. Even if the name, Rex Long, is a pretty bad representation of Wang Long, at the time being
Cheers
Foxes.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
It is a long shot I know, but I need some help with translating a character name from a Chinese name to an English name. The name I want to convert is; Wáng Lóng, which Google Translate, says is 王龙 in simplified Chinese.
I am hoping to convert; Wáng Lóng, into the most proper English name, as I want to give that converted name to a character.
If anybody knows both Chinese and English and is also willing to help me convert the Chinese name to an English name, I would be eternally grateful.
Like I say, its probably a long shot, but I don't have anyone else to ask, so thought I would put it out there into the public domain, to get some help from all you legends out there, hopefully,
Cheers
Foxes
XD
My wife is chinese, Lóng means dragon, Wáng doesn't have any translation, it is just a surname.
It is a long shot I know, but I need some help with translating a character name from a Chinese name to an English name. The name I want to convert is; Wáng Lóng, which Google Translate, says is 王龙 in simplified Chinese.
I am hoping to convert; Wáng Lóng, into the most proper English name, as I want to give that converted name to a character.
If anybody knows both Chinese and English and is also willing to help me convert the Chinese name to an English name, I would be eternally grateful.
Like I say, its probably a long shot, but I don't have anyone else to ask, so thought I would put it out there into the public domain, to get some help from all you legends out there, hopefully,
Cheers
Foxes
XD
My wife is chinese, Lóng means dragon, Wáng doesn't have any translation, it is just a surname.
Interesting. I wasn't really sure about Wáng, so use this translation instead.
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A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
A lot of Chinese immigrants to Australia adopt an Anglo first name. They expect English-speaking people to address them by it. If you know their Chinese name and call them that, that's fine too. My own niece has an official Anglo name which both parents use to address her, but she has a Chinese name too. So I think Rex Long would be Wang Long as well (if we're treating Long as his family name).
A lot of Chinese immigrants to Australia adopt an Anglo first name. They expect English-speaking people to address them by it. If you know their Chinese name and call them that, that's fine too. My own niece has an official Anglo name which both parents use to address her, but she has a Chinese name too. So I think Rex Long would be Wang Long as well (if we're treating Long as his family name).
You have just raised another good point.
Further research has brought up the fact that Chinese names are giving with the family first. So, if the character's family name is Lóng (I have looked this up, and it can be a family name according to my research) , then his name should be; Lóng Wáng. However; translating, Lóng Wáng, into simplified Chinese characters gives me 王龙, which turns into Wáng Lóng in romanised Chinese.
I think I have fallen into a perpetual rabbit hole, and now I am somewhat confused. Although I have somewhat settled on the characters westernised name being, Rex Long, I am confused how I would say his Chinese name. Going by the Chinese characters 王龙 - it would indeed be, Wáng Lóng, but my research has indicated that it should be Lóng Wáng, with the family name first.
It matters to this character because I am modelling this character after Zheng Zhilong; a merchant, pirate, a political and military leader in the late Ming dynasty who later defected to the Qing dynasty. Therefore; as this character is based on a real-life historical figure, and grounded in the history of Qing dynasty pirates, I need to make sure I get this right so that I do not fetishise or make fun of an entire nation and its history.
It is proving much harder than I thought to localise Chinese history into western story telling.
A lot of Chinese immigrants to Australia adopt an Anglo first name. They expect English-speaking people to address them by it. If you know their Chinese name and call them that, that's fine too. My own niece has an official Anglo name which both parents use to address her, but she has a Chinese name too. So I think Rex Long would be Wang Long as well (if we're treating Long as his family name).
I think I have fallen into a perpetual rabbit hole, and now I am somewhat confused. Although I have somewhat settled on the characters westernised name being, Rex Long, I am confused how I would say his Chinese name. Going by the Chinese characters 王龙 - it would indeed be, Wáng Lóng, but my research has indicated that it should be Lóng Wáng, with the family name first.
I already told you, per my wife who is Chinese, Wáng is the family name...
When it comes to name translations, there are really traditions, rather than rules. Worse, over time, the translations get twisted.
The worst one such twisting that I am aware of is this.
There was never any person named Jesus of Nazareth. There was a very kind person that went by the name of Yeshua (pronounced like Yea Shoe Ah) of Nazareth. Jews still use that name with a slight twist, calling their kids Joshua or Josh for short. But the Romans were totally unable or willing to use the name Yeshua or Joshua. So they re-wrote his name and pronounced it Jesus.
Not to nit-pick, but the Romans went with "Jesus" (as opposed to Yeshua ben Yosef-- literally in English 'Joshua, son of Joseph') because Jesus is the Greek translation of the name, which they were more familiar with by the time of Emperor Constantine.
Not related at all, but yeah, generally only ancient names of great historical/cultural significance get translated if you have multiple cultures for whom they hold significance (see also the prophet Isa in the Quran, aka Jesus aka Yeshua aka etc), but individuals in the present day would not find themselves in the same position, unless they have various titles or nicknames that also span different cultures, as is the case with Frankish king Charles the First, or Charles the Great, or in French, Charelemagne. (Also as a side note, his grandfather Charles Martel had the cooler nickname, "Charles the Hammer.")
*Edit*
Regarding figures with multiple names/nicknames spanning language and cultures, I tragically left out the best example:
"Usidore the Blue, Wizard of the 12th Realm of Ephysiyies, Master of Light and Shadow, Manipulator of Magical Delights, Devourer of Chaos, Champion of the Great Halls of Terr'akkas. The elves know me as Fi’ang Yalok. The dwarfs know me as Zoenen Hoogstandjes. And I am also known in the Northeast as Gaismunēnas Meistar"
Yeah maybe he's not the perfect example since he fits both categories of "culturally/historically significant" and "multiple titles" across language barriers.
A lot of Chinese immigrants to Australia adopt an Anglo first name. They expect English-speaking people to address them by it. If you know their Chinese name and call them that, that's fine too. My own niece has an official Anglo name which both parents use to address her, but she has a Chinese name too. So I think Rex Long would be Wang Long as well (if we're treating Long as his family name).
I think I have fallen into a perpetual rabbit hole, and now I am somewhat confused. Although I have somewhat settled on the characters westernised name being, Rex Long, I am confused how I would say his Chinese name. Going by the Chinese characters 王龙 - it would indeed be, Wáng Lóng, but my research has indicated that it should be Lóng Wáng, with the family name first.
I already told you, per my wife who is Chinese, Wáng is the family name...
Hi,
I know you said that it was your comment that sent me off doing research into Chinese family names.
Foxes
XD
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
When it comes to name translations, there are really traditions, rather than rules. Worse, over time, the translations get twisted.
The worst one such twisting that I am aware of is this.
There was never any person named Jesus of Nazareth. There was a very kind person that went by the name of Yeshua (pronounced like Yea Shoe Ah) of Nazareth. Jews still use that name with a slight twist, calling their kids Joshua or Josh for short. But the Romans were totally unable or willing to use the name Yeshua or Joshua. So they re-wrote his name and pronounced it Jesus.
Not to nit-pick, but the Romans went with "Jesus" (as opposed to Yeshua ben Yosef-- literally in English 'Joshua, son of Joseph') because Jesus is the Greek translation of the name, which they were more familiar with by the time of Emperor Constantine.
Not related at all, but yeah, generally only ancient names of great historical/cultural significance get translated if you have multiple cultures for whom they hold significance (see also the prophet Isa in the Quran, aka Jesus aka Yeshua aka etc), but individuals in the present day would not find themselves in the same position, unless they have various titles or nicknames that also span different cultures, as is the case with Frankish king Charles the First, or Charles the Great, or in French, Charelemagne. (Also as a side note, his grandfather Charles Martel had the cooler nickname, "Charles the Hammer.")
*Edit*
Regarding figures with multiple names/nicknames spanning language and cultures, I tragically left out the best example:
"Usidore the Blue, Wizard of the 12th Realm of Ephysiyies, Master of Light and Shadow, Manipulator of Magical Delights, Devourer of Chaos, Champion of the Great Halls of Terr'akkas. The elves know me as Fi’ang Yalok. The dwarfs know me as Zoenen Hoogstandjes. And I am also known in the Northeast as Gaismunēnas Meistar"
Like we said earlier there is NO WAY TO TRANSLATE NAMES. Translation requires a word that previously exists in both languages. You can't say that the Romans decided to use the 'Greek version' because the Greeks did not have some magical power to change someone's name anymore than the Romans did.
If one Greek idiot decides that he can't pronounce Mog Dracov, and decides to call me Nod Dragon, that does not magically make it all right for a Roman to call me Nod Dragon.
All you have done is move the mis-pronounciation from the Romans to the Greeks.
Like we said earlier there is NO WAY TO TRANSLATE NAMES. Translation requires a word that previously exists in both languages. You can't say that the Romans decided to use the 'Greek version' because the Greeks did not have some magical power to change someone's name anymore than the Romans did.
If one Greek idiot decides that he can't pronounce Mog Dracov, and decides to call me Nod Dragon, that does not magically make it all right for a Roman to call me Nod Dragon.
All you have done is move the mis-pronounciation from the Romans to the Greeks.
If someone starts calling you something, it does not matter how many times you tell them that they are wrong. Until they agree with you, what they call you is also your name. Insisting that it is mis-pronunciation, insisting they are outright wrong, does not matter. A Rose by any other name, Nod Dragon, can also be a Rosa.
That's a very disrespectful point of view with a lot of unfortunate implications, but thankfully it is simply incorrect.
Names don't 'translate' like how you're asking. If someone's name in Cantonese or Mandarin is Wáng Lóng when you romanise it, that is the proper 'translation'. This is effectively like asking what the 'proper' translation of John Smith is in French. It's still John Smith.
I agree with this, but--
There is notably one exception to this. The reason Native Americans have names like "Dragging Canoe", "Crazy Horse", "Little Turkey", or "Red Cloud" is very much because English-speaking Americans kind of forced their hand at some point to translate their names from their native language into English. And that tradition continued ever since.
If the name has a literal meaning, then it can be translated. You can't translate a name, but you can translate the /meaning/ of a name.
And I have seen literary/fictional characters created that pay homage to some historical figure or some previous literary character but give the character a name that either uses the name of the original person/character's name or uses another language's version of the name.
The literal translation of 王龙 is King Dragon. Though, since Chinese names have the family name and personal name reversed-- maybe the new character could be called "Dragon King". But since that sounds a bit wonky, we couldn't really call someone "Dragon", though the family name of "King" isn't unusual. So instead of "Dragon" maybe call the character "Drake".
So the new character inspired by 王龙 who is given a westernized name so that they can fit within a setting where everyone has a westernized name could be named "Drake King".
It is reality.Personally, I have been called all sorts of things, being a straight male whose given name was considered a girl's name in the area I grew up, despite my being named after a male literary character. I even had the option of switching to my middle name at one point when I switched schools, but decided not to do so.
Now, in 2020, if I was growing up in the same city as a kid, it would likely not be so difficult simply because the city has become more cosmopolitan over time and people are used to a lot more variation in names, however mispronunciations still happen. Some letter combinations are simply difficult for non-natives. That is not any deliberate slight. Rightly or wrongly, many Asians in North America adopt English names, simply out of frustration over no one being able to pronounce their actual names. They still privately (and officially) retain their birth names, but use their English names in every day interactions, simply because it is far more practical that trying to teach everyone to pronounce their proper names correctly.
You can rant about disrespect and incorrectness all you wish, but the world carries on despite your ranting.
You wrote 200 words in response to one sentence, but yeah, I'm the one "ranting."
I'll point out that every example you've cited involves someone making a choice for themselves, so none of it is really relevant to anything I've said.
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Hi, guys
It is a long shot I know, but I need some help with translating a character name from a Chinese name to an English name. The name I want to convert is; Wáng Lóng, which Google Translate, says is 王龙 in simplified Chinese.
I am hoping to convert; Wáng Lóng, into the most proper English name, as I want to give that converted name to a character.
If anybody knows both Chinese and English and is also willing to help me convert the Chinese name to an English name, I would be eternally grateful.
Like I say, its probably a long shot, but I don't have anyone else to ask, so thought I would put it out there into the public domain, to get some help from all you legends out there, hopefully,
Cheers
Foxes
XD
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Names don't 'translate' like how you're asking. If someone's name in Cantonese or Mandarin is Wáng Lóng when you romanise it, that is the proper 'translation'. This is effectively like asking what the 'proper' translation of John Smith is in French. It's still John Smith.
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There are certain exceptions, for example “Joseph” is “Giuseppe” in Italian. But the name still means the same thing.
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The language I am studying at school is Chinese, so I can help you out a little bit with this. In China, names are often made up of two words with meanings. I know that Long means dragon, and one translation of Wang is ruler or king, so the name roughly means "King Dragon." You don't tend to call someone "King Dragon", so I would stick to using the Chinese name.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
When it comes to name translations, there are really traditions, rather than rules. Worse, over time, the translations get twisted.
The worst one such twisting that I am aware of is this.
There was never any person named Jesus of Nazareth. There was a very kind person that went by the name of Yeshua (pronounced like Yea Shoe Ah) of Nazareth. Jews still use that name with a slight twist, calling their kids Joshua or Josh for short. But the Romans were totally unable or willing to use the name Yeshua or Joshua. So they re-wrote his name and pronounced it Jesus.
That is not correct. John is spelled John in French. If you're English and named John and go to France, if someone writes your name down as "Jean," they are wrong. Jean is the French equivalent of John, but they are different names.
Transliteration is different of course, Romanization of Russian or Japanese names, for example. Wáng Lóng is one possible transliteration of 王龙, but it's not really a translation. Names are usually left untranslated, though they have been translated historically by, for example, Europeans who just couldn't deal with American Indian names. That kind of thing is less common these days for imperialism reasons.
Your answer has helped me out a lot, even if the name; Wáng Lóng, does not translate the way I was thinking, your translation of King Dragon, has set me down a different path. Rather than directly converting the name in the way I was initially going for, I can take the translation of "King Dragon" and translate the meaning into English instead.
For example; in Latin, Rex means King. Rex is also an English name, so that gives me the first name of Rex. Next, if we assume that this character would have the in-game equivalent of Chinese ancestry (based upon his name), then we can keep the surname Long, giving us the name, Rex Long.
Now we have; Rex Long, the Rogue Swashbuckler, and former pirate, with the sailor background; who grew up in a middle-class merchant family, and developed a love of books as a child, thanks to his parents owning a second-hand bookstore.
Already the character is beginning to take shape, by just translating the meaning of a name from Chinese to English and adding in a few eccentric flourishes.
I am not entirely sure if this is how translation/localisation works or not, but still, your answer has sparked something in me. Even if the name, Rex Long, is a pretty bad representation of Wang Long, at the time being
Cheers
Foxes.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
My wife is chinese, Lóng means dragon, Wáng doesn't have any translation, it is just a surname.
Interesting. I wasn't really sure about Wáng, so use this translation instead.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Wang is a very common. Basically it's the equivalent of Doe or Smith. But Smith implies a job that is not associated with Wang, so I would use Doe.
You could use the name "Dragon Doe"
A lot of Chinese immigrants to Australia adopt an Anglo first name. They expect English-speaking people to address them by it. If you know their Chinese name and call them that, that's fine too. My own niece has an official Anglo name which both parents use to address her, but she has a Chinese name too. So I think Rex Long would be Wang Long as well (if we're treating Long as his family name).
You have just raised another good point.
Further research has brought up the fact that Chinese names are giving with the family first. So, if the character's family name is Lóng (I have looked this up, and it can be a family name according to my research) , then his name should be; Lóng Wáng. However; translating, Lóng Wáng, into simplified Chinese characters gives me 王龙, which turns into Wáng Lóng in romanised Chinese.
I think I have fallen into a perpetual rabbit hole, and now I am somewhat confused. Although I have somewhat settled on the characters westernised name being, Rex Long, I am confused how I would say his Chinese name. Going by the Chinese characters 王龙 - it would indeed be, Wáng Lóng, but my research has indicated that it should be Lóng Wáng, with the family name first.
It matters to this character because I am modelling this character after Zheng Zhilong; a merchant, pirate, a political and military leader in the late Ming dynasty who later defected to the Qing dynasty. Therefore; as this character is based on a real-life historical figure, and grounded in the history of Qing dynasty pirates, I need to make sure I get this right so that I do not fetishise or make fun of an entire nation and its history.
It is proving much harder than I thought to localise Chinese history into western story telling.
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
I already told you, per my wife who is Chinese, Wáng is the family name...
Not to nit-pick, but the Romans went with "Jesus" (as opposed to Yeshua ben Yosef-- literally in English 'Joshua, son of Joseph') because Jesus is the Greek translation of the name, which they were more familiar with by the time of Emperor Constantine.
Not related at all, but yeah, generally only ancient names of great historical/cultural significance get translated if you have multiple cultures for whom they hold significance (see also the prophet Isa in the Quran, aka Jesus aka Yeshua aka etc), but individuals in the present day would not find themselves in the same position, unless they have various titles or nicknames that also span different cultures, as is the case with Frankish king Charles the First, or Charles the Great, or in French, Charelemagne. (Also as a side note, his grandfather Charles Martel had the cooler nickname, "Charles the Hammer.")
*Edit*
Regarding figures with multiple names/nicknames spanning language and cultures, I tragically left out the best example:
"Usidore the Blue, Wizard of the 12th Realm of Ephysiyies, Master of Light and Shadow, Manipulator of Magical Delights, Devourer of Chaos, Champion of the Great Halls of Terr'akkas. The elves know me as Fi’ang Yalok. The dwarfs know me as Zoenen Hoogstandjes. And I am also known in the Northeast as Gaismunēnas Meistar"
Yeah maybe he's not the perfect example since he fits both categories of "culturally/historically significant" and "multiple titles" across language barriers.
Hi,
I know you said that it was your comment that sent me off doing research into Chinese family names.
Foxes
XD
A caffeinated nerd who has played TTRPGs or a number of years and is very much a fantasy adventure geek.
Like we said earlier there is NO WAY TO TRANSLATE NAMES. Translation requires a word that previously exists in both languages. You can't say that the Romans decided to use the 'Greek version' because the Greeks did not have some magical power to change someone's name anymore than the Romans did.
If one Greek idiot decides that he can't pronounce Mog Dracov, and decides to call me Nod Dragon, that does not magically make it all right for a Roman to call me Nod Dragon.
All you have done is move the mis-pronounciation from the Romans to the Greeks.
That's a very disrespectful point of view with a lot of unfortunate implications, but thankfully it is simply incorrect.
I agree with this, but--
There is notably one exception to this. The reason Native Americans have names like "Dragging Canoe", "Crazy Horse", "Little Turkey", or "Red Cloud" is very much because English-speaking Americans kind of forced their hand at some point to translate their names from their native language into English. And that tradition continued ever since.
If the name has a literal meaning, then it can be translated. You can't translate a name, but you can translate the /meaning/ of a name.
And I have seen literary/fictional characters created that pay homage to some historical figure or some previous literary character but give the character a name that either uses the name of the original person/character's name or uses another language's version of the name.
The literal translation of 王龙 is King Dragon. Though, since Chinese names have the family name and personal name reversed-- maybe the new character could be called "Dragon King". But since that sounds a bit wonky, we couldn't really call someone "Dragon", though the family name of "King" isn't unusual. So instead of "Dragon" maybe call the character "Drake".
So the new character inspired by 王龙 who is given a westernized name so that they can fit within a setting where everyone has a westernized name could be named "Drake King".
You wrote 200 words in response to one sentence, but yeah, I'm the one "ranting."
I'll point out that every example you've cited involves someone making a choice for themselves, so none of it is really relevant to anything I've said.