I am aware that as a new player (1 year experience), I am a minority in knowing about Gygax, Chainmail, and the rest of D&D's history. Here is a test for others:
Do you know what early D&D thing I am referring to with each of these?
1. Chainmail
2. The all-father of gaming
3. AD&D
4. 1e bard
5. infravision
6. Unearthed arcana
7. AC of -5
8. Tenser
I can post more and answers...later
1- Chainmail = the original miniatures war-game off of which the first set of D&D rules was based.
2. All-father of gaming - This could be either Gygax or Arneson, I suppose, depending on your RPG politics.
3. AD&D = Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, first published in the late 1970s.
4. 1e Bard = In AD&D (see above), which is also called "1e", the Bard was a prestige class (though they didn't call it that). Only humans could be one, because only humans could change classes. In AD&D, there were multiclass characters, but these could not be human, and they started out with multiple classes. They leveled up separately in each class. There were limited options. You could be a figher/magic-user or a cleric/fighter, or a cleric/fighter/magic-user, but you could not be a ranger/druid or something like that. Humans could do something called "dual classing" which was different. They could start out as any class (only humans had no class restrictions) and then at a certain level, they could opt to gain level 1 in a second class. I believe this class could, also, be anything (could be wrong though). So you could start out as a fighter, gain to level 8 or something, and then switch to Magic-user. You'd lose ALL your previous class abilities and literally go back to being a level 1 character. Then you gained levels in the 2nd class. After you equalled the first class, now you could be both "simultaneously" and get the bonuses of both. One of the classes a human could add was the Bard. But you could not start out as a bard.. you could only dual-class into it. So this is why only humans could be bards.
5. Infravision = infrared vision. Not to be confused with Ultravision (ultraviolet vision). Most demi-humans with "darkvision" today had either infra- or ultravision in the old days.
6. Unearthed arcana = a book put out late in the AD&D cycle with lots of optional, and highly overpowered, rules. These eventually got folded into 2e, I believe.
7. AC of -5: Prior to 3e, AC got better as it went down. AC of 10 was unarmored (cloth). Shield made your AC lower, by -1 for a small shield, -2 for large. Chain, plate, etc, were lower as they got better. -5 was max, I guess, though I could have sworn -3 was the max. I could be confusing AD&D with Basic/Expert sets though. To get there you'd need like Plate + shield (AC of 2) and then +3 or +4 magic on both. This led to stupid things by the way like a +1 shield subtracting 1 from your AC because +1 made it better.
8. Tenser = the name of some character in one of Gygax's campaigns who then got a spell named after him.
Old white guys are allowed to be either Jolly or Creepy. You can tell the difference by their laugh. Santa is the prime example of Jolly.
Old white gals are allowed to be either Overbearing or Depressed. You can tell the difference by how much they talk. If they don't talk a lot, they are called Depressed.
To be fair you could rename this topic to also be "You do not know how who those spells with special names refer to?"
Example spells, quoted from boardgamegeek:
Bigby (Bigby's Hand), created by Robert J. Kuntz. Drawmij (Drawmij's Instant Summons), named for Jim Ward. Evard (Evard's Black Tentacles), created by Gary Gygax*. Leomund (Leomund's Secret Chest, Leomund's Tiny Hut), created by Lenard Lakofka. Melf (Melf's Acid Arrow), created by Luke Gygax. Mordenkainen (Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound, Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion, Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum, Mordenkainen's Sword), created by Gary Gygax. Nystul (Nystul's Magic Aura), named for Brad Nystul*. Otiluke (Otiluke's Freezing Sphere, Otiluke's Resilient Sphere), named for Luke Gygax*. Otto (Otto's Irresistible Dance), created by Gary Gygax. Rary (Rary's Telepathic Bond), created by Brian Blume*. Tasha (Tasha's Hideous Laughter), named for a girl that wrote to Gary Gygax*. Tenser (Tenser's Floating Disk), created by Ernest Gygax.
It's fine for people to not know who Gary Gygax is. If they want to know, they can just ask or look up the information.
I am aware that as a new player (1 year experience), I am a minority in knowing about Gygax, Chainmail, and the rest of D&D's history. Here is a test for others:
Do you know what early D&D thing I am referring to with each of these?
1. Chainmail
2. The all-father of gaming
3. AD&D
4. 1e bard
5. infravision
6. Unearthed arcana
7. AC of -5
8. Tenser
I can post more and answers...later
1- Chainmail = the original miniatures war-game off of which the first set of D&D rules was based.
2. All-father of gaming - This could be either Gygax or Arneson, I suppose, depending on your RPG politics.
3. AD&D = Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, first published in the late 1970s.
4. 1e Bard = In AD&D (see above), which is also called "1e", the Bard was a prestige class (though they didn't call it that). Only humans could be one, because only humans could change classes. In AD&D, there were multiclass characters, but these could not be human, and they started out with multiple classes. They leveled up separately in each class. There were limited options. You could be a figher/magic-user or a cleric/fighter, or a cleric/fighter/magic-user, but you could not be a ranger/druid or something like that. Humans could do something called "dual classing" which was different. They could start out as any class (only humans had no class restrictions) and then at a certain level, they could opt to gain level 1 in a second class. I believe this class could, also, be anything (could be wrong though). So you could start out as a fighter, gain to level 8 or something, and then switch to Magic-user. You'd lose ALL your previous class abilities and literally go back to being a level 1 character. Then you gained levels in the 2nd class. After you equalled the first class, now you could be both "simultaneously" and get the bonuses of both. One of the classes a human could add was the Bard. But you could not start out as a bard.. you could only dual-class into it. So this is why only humans could be bards.
5. Infravision = infrared vision. Not to be confused with Ultravision (ultraviolet vision). Most demi-humans with "darkvision" today had either infra- or ultravision in the old days.
6. Unearthed arcana = a book put out late in the AD&D cycle with lots of optional, and highly overpowered, rules. These eventually got folded into 2e, I believe.
7. AC of -5: Prior to 3e, AC got better as it went down. AC of 10 was unarmored (cloth). Shield made your AC lower, by -1 for a small shield, -2 for large. Chain, plate, etc, were lower as they got better. -5 was max, I guess, though I could have sworn -3 was the max. I could be confusing AD&D with Basic/Expert sets though. To get there you'd need like Plate + shield (AC of 2) and then +3 or +4 magic on both. This led to stupid things by the way like a +1 shield subtracting 1 from your AC because +1 made it better.
8. Tenser = the name of some character in one of Gygax's campaigns who then got a spell named after him.
Wow all correct. Good job. With number seven, i was just referencing the "lower is better". Maybe -3 was the minimum and I just forgot.
I am aware that as a new player (1 year experience), I am a minority in knowing about Gygax, Chainmail, and the rest of D&D's history. Here is a test for others:
Do you know what early D&D thing I am referring to with each of these?
1. Chainmail
2. The all-father of gaming
3. AD&D
4. 1e bard
5. infravision
6. Unearthed arcana
7. AC of -5
8. Tenser
I can post more and answers...later
1- Chainmail = the original miniatures war-game off of which the first set of D&D rules was based.
2. All-father of gaming - This could be either Gygax or Arneson, I suppose, depending on your RPG politics.
3. AD&D = Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, first published in the late 1970s.
4. 1e Bard = In AD&D (see above), which is also called "1e", the Bard was a prestige class (though they didn't call it that). Only humans could be one, because only humans could change classes. In AD&D, there were multiclass characters, but these could not be human, and they started out with multiple classes. They leveled up separately in each class. There were limited options. You could be a figher/magic-user or a cleric/fighter, or a cleric/fighter/magic-user, but you could not be a ranger/druid or something like that. Humans could do something called "dual classing" which was different. They could start out as any class (only humans had no class restrictions) and then at a certain level, they could opt to gain level 1 in a second class. I believe this class could, also, be anything (could be wrong though). So you could start out as a fighter, gain to level 8 or something, and then switch to Magic-user. You'd lose ALL your previous class abilities and literally go back to being a level 1 character. Then you gained levels in the 2nd class. After you equalled the first class, now you could be both "simultaneously" and get the bonuses of both. One of the classes a human could add was the Bard. But you could not start out as a bard.. you could only dual-class into it. So this is why only humans could be bards.
5. Infravision = infrared vision. Not to be confused with Ultravision (ultraviolet vision). Most demi-humans with "darkvision" today had either infra- or ultravision in the old days.
6. Unearthed arcana = a book put out late in the AD&D cycle with lots of optional, and highly overpowered, rules. These eventually got folded into 2e, I believe.
7. AC of -5: Prior to 3e, AC got better as it went down. AC of 10 was unarmored (cloth). Shield made your AC lower, by -1 for a small shield, -2 for large. Chain, plate, etc, were lower as they got better. -5 was max, I guess, though I could have sworn -3 was the max. I could be confusing AD&D with Basic/Expert sets though. To get there you'd need like Plate + shield (AC of 2) and then +3 or +4 magic on both. This led to stupid things by the way like a +1 shield subtracting 1 from your AC because +1 made it better.
8. Tenser = the name of some character in one of Gygax's campaigns who then got a spell named after him.
A couple caveats:
3&4. 1e could either refer to original D&D, or AD&D 1e much like 2e could refer to either game. AD&D2e released 1989, and 1991 for D&D (as the Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia).
5. Infravision and Ultravision took layovers as Darkvision and Low-Light Vision before all settling into plain old Darkvision.
8. Tenser’s player specifically invented his character’s signature Floating Disk specifically to transport a whackton is silver and copper coins home from a dungeon.
Well, as for immortalized characters, I have started making my own homebrewed items but there are some examples in the AD&D DMG of other historical figures.
Apparatus of Kwalish
Bucknard's Everfull Purse
several names bardic instruments
Keoghton's Ointment and others
It seems the fighters would prefer to name their weapons something inspiring like Excalibur or Sting.
I have taken to creating items for bards and rogues with names. One of them is very mundane as a silvered rapier that rings with a perfect "A" when it is drawn from the scabbard. It is known as Cadenza's Rapier. Whenever he draws the rapier in a civilized area and it rings out, characters, and bards in particular, recognize that this is Cadenza who they have heard about in so many ballads. I have had so much pleasure from this that my other bards seek out smiths that are able to silver their rapiers to create a pure pitch in a clear ringing sound when their rapiers are drawn. Imagine a group of musketeers that might draw their rapiers to the sound of a pure major chord, and the new guy has his rapier tuned to the seventh.
For rogues, there are various opportunities for boots and gloves for enhancing their secretive talents.
Also, if you wanted to tap into a real cultural element, you could say that this player fights in the style of "fill in a fencing instructor's name here", like Lorenzo's Dueling Rapier school.
I think if I were ever to create an NPC barbarian, I'd have him presented as a Scots Highlander and have him wield the Claymore of MacLeod.
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Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
I realize this is a D&D forum and all that but not knowing who Gary Gygax was is pretty mundane. I don't know who made Risk or Monopoly. And, yea, that probably isn't a fair comparison because those games were probably written by a committee but still ...
These folks new to D&D don't know what the Berlin Wall is either or a whole lot of more important stuff.
So let's try and help them understand how novel and special THIS game is compared to the other TTRPGs.
The story of the origin of monopoly is actually really interesting, The book “The Monopolists” is a good read on the subject.
But I agree with you. I wouldn’t think less of any player for not knowing Gygax or any other import figure in the game’s history.
So we’re just skipping the ageism and sexism of this “gal”?
To me it sound like she needs educating on more than just who is the “father” of D&D
Gygax was a cranky grognard by the late 80s. "Creepy" and "old" are both perfectly serviceable adjectives for him.
Agreed. I know who he is, but only cause I like history and I read all of Shannon Appel-Cline’s history of D&D blurbs on all the old stuff I bought on DTRPG, plus I’ve talked to some older gamers who’ve been playing for a long time. From what I’ve heard he was an insurance agent who included a lot of unconscious racism and sexism in the original game as well as A LOT of unnecessary charts and tables (including one for what kind of prostitutes your characters can pick up). Plus apparently he was so negative they actually had to oust him from control of the company in the Eighties. Anyway, like I said, I like history, so that’s my historical summary of what I know about Gary Gygax.
So we’re just skipping the ageism and sexism of this “gal”?
To me it sound like she needs educating on more than just who is the “father” of D&D
Gygax was a cranky grognard by the late 80s. "Creepy" and "old" are both perfectly serviceable adjectives for him.
Agreed. I know who he is, but only cause I like history and I read all of Shannon Appel-Cline’s history of D&D blurbs on all the old stuff I bought on DTRPG, plus I’ve talked to some older gamers who’ve been playing for a long time. From what I’ve heard he was an insurance agent who included a lot of unconscious racism and sexism in the original game as well as A LOT of unnecessary charts and tables (including one for what kind of prostitutes your characters can pick up). Plus apparently he was so negative they actually had to oust him from control of the company in the Eighties. Anyway, like I said, I like history, so that’s my historical summary of what I know about Gary Gygax.
Gygax definitely loved complicated random charts. He also thought the game should be very adversarial between the GM and the players (hence the reason so many old modules had traps and encounters that were blatantly unfair and absurdly lethal). As far as the sexism and racism goes, it was definitely present in the game but I don't know how much was unconscious or not, and honestly I don't see any benefit from speculating- we all know it was there and the game is better off without it. Saying anything beyond that is probably not appropriate for this forum.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Old white guys are allowed to be either Jolly or Creepy. You can tell the difference by their laugh. Santa is the prime example of Jolly.
Old white gals are allowed to be either Overbearing or Depressed. You can tell the difference by how much they talk. If they don't talk a lot, they are called Depressed.
That is blatantly unfair to those who are both overbearing and depressed.
To me the original post was just someone telling something that happened - and some of the replies to me seemed mean. Why do so many people need to have internet muscles? But I am a 54 year old white male so I guess I am just a bad person anyway.
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1- Chainmail = the original miniatures war-game off of which the first set of D&D rules was based.
2. All-father of gaming - This could be either Gygax or Arneson, I suppose, depending on your RPG politics.
3. AD&D = Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, first published in the late 1970s.
4. 1e Bard = In AD&D (see above), which is also called "1e", the Bard was a prestige class (though they didn't call it that). Only humans could be one, because only humans could change classes. In AD&D, there were multiclass characters, but these could not be human, and they started out with multiple classes. They leveled up separately in each class. There were limited options. You could be a figher/magic-user or a cleric/fighter, or a cleric/fighter/magic-user, but you could not be a ranger/druid or something like that. Humans could do something called "dual classing" which was different. They could start out as any class (only humans had no class restrictions) and then at a certain level, they could opt to gain level 1 in a second class. I believe this class could, also, be anything (could be wrong though). So you could start out as a fighter, gain to level 8 or something, and then switch to Magic-user. You'd lose ALL your previous class abilities and literally go back to being a level 1 character. Then you gained levels in the 2nd class. After you equalled the first class, now you could be both "simultaneously" and get the bonuses of both. One of the classes a human could add was the Bard. But you could not start out as a bard.. you could only dual-class into it. So this is why only humans could be bards.
5. Infravision = infrared vision. Not to be confused with Ultravision (ultraviolet vision). Most demi-humans with "darkvision" today had either infra- or ultravision in the old days.
6. Unearthed arcana = a book put out late in the AD&D cycle with lots of optional, and highly overpowered, rules. These eventually got folded into 2e, I believe.
7. AC of -5: Prior to 3e, AC got better as it went down. AC of 10 was unarmored (cloth). Shield made your AC lower, by -1 for a small shield, -2 for large. Chain, plate, etc, were lower as they got better. -5 was max, I guess, though I could have sworn -3 was the max. I could be confusing AD&D with Basic/Expert sets though. To get there you'd need like Plate + shield (AC of 2) and then +3 or +4 magic on both. This led to stupid things by the way like a +1 shield subtracting 1 from your AC because +1 made it better.
8. Tenser = the name of some character in one of Gygax's campaigns who then got a spell named after him.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Old white guys are allowed to be either Jolly or Creepy. You can tell the difference by their laugh. Santa is the prime example of Jolly.
Old white gals are allowed to be either Overbearing or Depressed. You can tell the difference by how much they talk. If they don't talk a lot, they are called Depressed.
To be fair you could rename this topic to also be "You do not know how who those spells with special names refer to?"
Example spells, quoted from boardgamegeek:
It's fine for people to not know who Gary Gygax is. If they want to know, they can just ask or look up the information.
Wow all correct. Good job. With number seven, i was just referencing the "lower is better". Maybe -3 was the minimum and I just forgot.
Proud poster on the Create a World thread
So what do I win?
And get off my lawn!
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
A couple caveats:
3&4. 1e could either refer to original D&D, or AD&D 1e much like 2e could refer to either game. AD&D2e released 1989, and 1991 for D&D (as the Dungeons & Dragons Rules Cyclopedia).
5. Infravision and Ultravision took layovers as Darkvision and Low-Light Vision before all settling into plain old Darkvision.
8. Tenser’s player specifically invented his character’s signature Floating Disk specifically to transport a whackton is silver and copper coins home from a dungeon.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
(Tenser also made the tenser's transformation, right?)
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Pity we have not memorialized anyone except the Wizards.
half-elves were also allowed to be bards in 1e AD&D and in 2e half-elf bard was the only demi-human with unlimited leveling ability.
Back then they were “Arcane Spellcasters,” Wizard was the title of one of the levels.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Yeah. They were lazy at naming back then. Fighting Man?
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Magic-User...
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Yes, thank you for the correction.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Well, as for immortalized characters, I have started making my own homebrewed items but there are some examples in the AD&D DMG of other historical figures.
Apparatus of Kwalish
Bucknard's Everfull Purse
several names bardic instruments
Keoghton's Ointment and others
It seems the fighters would prefer to name their weapons something inspiring like Excalibur or Sting.
I have taken to creating items for bards and rogues with names. One of them is very mundane as a silvered rapier that rings with a perfect "A" when it is drawn from the scabbard. It is known as Cadenza's Rapier. Whenever he draws the rapier in a civilized area and it rings out, characters, and bards in particular, recognize that this is Cadenza who they have heard about in so many ballads. I have had so much pleasure from this that my other bards seek out smiths that are able to silver their rapiers to create a pure pitch in a clear ringing sound when their rapiers are drawn. Imagine a group of musketeers that might draw their rapiers to the sound of a pure major chord, and the new guy has his rapier tuned to the seventh.
For rogues, there are various opportunities for boots and gloves for enhancing their secretive talents.
Also, if you wanted to tap into a real cultural element, you could say that this player fights in the style of "fill in a fencing instructor's name here", like Lorenzo's Dueling Rapier school.
I think if I were ever to create an NPC barbarian, I'd have him presented as a Scots Highlander and have him wield the Claymore of MacLeod.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
The story of the origin of monopoly is actually really interesting, The book “The Monopolists” is a good read on the subject.
But I agree with you. I wouldn’t think less of any player for not knowing Gygax or any other import figure in the game’s history.
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Agreed. I know who he is, but only cause I like history and I read all of Shannon Appel-Cline’s history of D&D blurbs on all the old stuff I bought on DTRPG, plus I’ve talked to some older gamers who’ve been playing for a long time. From what I’ve heard he was an insurance agent who included a lot of unconscious racism and sexism in the original game as well as A LOT of unnecessary charts and tables (including one for what kind of prostitutes your characters can pick up). Plus apparently he was so negative they actually had to oust him from control of the company in the Eighties. Anyway, like I said, I like history, so that’s my historical summary of what I know about Gary Gygax.
Gygax definitely loved complicated random charts. He also thought the game should be very adversarial between the GM and the players (hence the reason so many old modules had traps and encounters that were blatantly unfair and absurdly lethal). As far as the sexism and racism goes, it was definitely present in the game but I don't know how much was unconscious or not, and honestly I don't see any benefit from speculating- we all know it was there and the game is better off without it. Saying anything beyond that is probably not appropriate for this forum.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
The ageism, sexism and racism in this thread is breathtaking.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
That is blatantly unfair to those who are both overbearing and depressed.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
To me the original post was just someone telling something that happened - and some of the replies to me seemed mean. Why do so many people need to have internet muscles? But I am a 54 year old white male so I guess I am just a bad person anyway.