A few points that might hopefully make you feel more comfortable with playing cleric:
Cleric means a religious leader of any faith, just most commonly Christian or Muslim. It's not term held exclusively by Christianity, but used by all faiths.
Clerics have access to maces and hammers as more of a 'signature weapon' type affair than any IRL grounding. A lot of classes get certain types of weapons available, be it heavy swords or light swords, bows or crossbows, hammers or axes. It's a differentiation thing more so than IRL grounding
If you want access to a sword, there are several domains that give you martial weapons. There are also some races that do, including variant human which lets you take a feat to access certain weapons
As pointed out, clerics don't have to follow a deity, and if they decide to, they don't have to follow just one. Clerics have 'domains', ways of living their life and dedicating their purpose. For example, a forge domain cleric could be dedicated not to a god or goddess of creation, but just the act of creation itself. A unity domain (playtest material) cleric is dedicated to the idea of community and cooperation.
However, if you're still not enamoured with the idea of a cleric for healer, some alternate suggestions:
Artificer (Alchemist)
Sorcerer (Divine Soul)
Paladin
Druid
Bard
Ultimately, it's down entirely how to you flavour things. That's my favourite things about D&D, with a little bit of reflavouring, you can turn anything into anything else.
A helpful post Davedamon.
The problem with labels is they come with archetype cultural baggage; Cleric, Palladin, Ranger, Bard. The monk is clearly based on Shaolin style monks from a Buddhist tradition, while Western or Orthodox monks would be clerics. And being a cleric or monk is a lifestyle / vocation / profession, while being a pagan priest was in some cultures not a full time role but an additional duty, perhaps an office held for a term rather than indefinitely.
You can always rename a class if you want to better suit the flavor of what you're looking for.
Absolutely. Keep in mind that everything except the hard numbers of a class is just fluff, and you have the power to completely rewrite it. You can make up the reasons you have the proficiencies you have. You can make up the explanation as to why you can cast the spells you have. Clerics don't need faith, Paladins don't need Oaths, etc. All that is just an optional, pre-built scaffold for how to characterize the group of abilities and features we call a class.
It is totally ok to make a character that can do the things you want to do, then go back and decide how to explain that in terms of the game world. If it's not a number on your character sheet, you can change it.
The problem with labels is they come with archetype cultural baggage; Cleric, Palladin, Ranger, Bard. The monk is clearly based on Shaolin style monks from a Buddhist tradition, while Western or Orthodox monks would be clerics. And being a cleric or monk is a lifestyle / vocation / profession, while being a pagan priest was in some cultures not a full time role but an additional duty, perhaps an office held for a term rather than indefinitely.
Thank you all. food for thought.
Well, we could go into the abyss of linguistic cultural baggage in a game where characters are defined at their foundation by the terms race and class, but as I said that would be an abyss on top of all the work the publishers claim to be endeavoring to make the game more broadly inclusive.
I'm still not sure what type of healer you're looking for other than "not evocative of christendom." However, if that pagan priest/shaman "medicine person" indefinite or perhaps termed role among other duties is the tact you're going for, you can look into "feats", which are traits a character can take on at fourth level and any other time the character's table provides for an increase in ability scores. There's a healer feat, though it's more physician than magic, but you could also go the Ritual Magic route and through either a written manual or something more totemic in place of books, grant the character access to clerical healing spell casting. But what really came to mind was the supernatural gifts presented for DM inspiration in the "other rewards" section of the DMG's treasure chapter. Through some sort of quest type performance, the character impresses the powers that be or the community they serve and is "blessed" with a healing ability to some degree. And like the proverbial (dang it, loaded language again) saying, what the powers that be granteth the powers that be can taketh away. Maybe once the blessing is attained, it must be maintained through politicking, apprenticeship, or trial by combat or ordeal or however you want your world or community to handle it. I like that idea enough myself that I've noted it in my own game notebook.
I recently created a build that was actually meant to be a Fallen Angel and has the capability of healing the party members 40,000 HP over the course of the long rest, while having Agonizing Eldritch Blast for damage cantrip, using Charisma as the main stat, and still having the ability to cast more spells. The build involves 2 levels into Celestial Warlock first, 1 level into Life Cleric, and the last 17 levels into Divine Soul Sorcerer. This gives access to powerful 9th level spells and the same number of spell slots as having just been 18 levels into one class, while also adding the additional utility of the warlocks spells and Invocations. The builds Favored spells are aura of vitality with extended spell for 1 Sorcery Point each casting, and the Regenerate spell which heals 600 times at base without concentration. Extended spell makes it heal 1200 times at base. Life Cleric is not restricted to when you cast the spell but when you use the spell making it affect each turn of regeneration. This gives your target 10HP per turn for 1200 turns without concentration. This spell also does not end if the target falls unconscious, meaning the target will automatically get back up any time they are down but not out. This means that you can sufficiently keep 3 party members alive for two hours while still having levels 1-6 spell slots all available for damaging spells and burst heals. Happy Healing :)
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A swift breeze in the night? Or a thief leaving your pockets much more light? Am I a shadow or a blight? Perhaps I'm a different form of might.
Looking for a healer class, but something not so Christiancentric as the 'Cleric' class.
Any suggestions ?
Healer? Is that a gamer term? D&D doesn't have healers. They have spell casters that can cast healing along with their other spells. But none whose sole purpose is healing.
I recently created a build that was actually meant to be a Fallen Angel and has the capability of healing the party members 40,000 HP over the course of the long rest, while having Agonizing Eldritch Blast for damage cantrip, using Charisma as the main stat, and still having the ability to cast more spells. The build involves 2 levels into Celestial Warlock first, 1 level into Life Cleric, and the last 17 levels into Divine Soul Sorcerer. This gives access to powerful 9th level spells and the same number of spell slots as having just been 18 levels into one class, while also adding the additional utility of the warlocks spells and Invocations. The builds Favored spells are aura of vitality with extended spell for 1 Sorcery Point each casting, and the Regenerate spell which heals 600 times at base without concentration. Extended spell makes it heal 1200 times at base. Life Cleric is not restricted to when you cast the spell but when you use the spell making it affect each turn of regeneration. This gives your target 10HP per turn for 1200 turns without concentration. This spell also does not end if the target falls unconscious, meaning the target will automatically get back up any time they are down but not out. This means that you can sufficiently keep 3 party members alive for two hours while still having levels 1-6 spell slots all available for damaging spells and burst heals. Happy Healing :)
The life domain feature says:
When a spell you cast with a spell slot restores Hit Points to a creature, that creature regains additional Hit Points on the turn you cast the spell. The additional Hit Points equal 2 plus the spell slot’s level.
This is terribly worded, meaning that the creature heals in the past whenever the spell restores hit points. I believe they meant "When a spell you cast with a spell slot restores Hit Points to a creature on the turn you cast the spell, that creature regains additional Hit Points on the turn you cast the spell". Either way, it does not trigger every turn for regenerate.
(IIRC, I pointed this out in a thread a while ago, and a staff member said they would show this to the devs, but there was no errata for this, so I don't know what's going on with that)
When a spell you cast with a spell slot restores Hit Points to a creature, that creature regains additional Hit Points on the turn you cast the spell. The additional Hit Points equal 2 plus the spell slot’s level.
This is terribly worded, meaning that the creature heals in the past whenever the spell restores hit points. I believe they meant "When a spell you cast with a spell slot restores Hit Points to a creature on the turn you cast the spell, that creature regains additional Hit Points on the turn you cast the spell". Either way, it does not trigger every turn for regenerate.
(IIRC, I pointed this out in a thread a while ago, and a staff member said they would show this to the devs, but there was no errata for this, so I don't know what's going on with that)
What this means is just that the extra healing occurs on the turn the spell is cast. This is likely intended to prevent an abuse case where you could start casting a spell with a longer casting time (e.g. Regenerate or Prayer of Healing) but then immediately drop concentration on it after the first turn, which (if this provision weren't present) would let you get the extra healing from Disciple of Life without actually casting the spell or expending a spell slot.
But you're right that it definitely doesn't trigger on every turn that Regenerate is active. Only once, on the final turn of casting the spell.
When a spell you cast with a spell slot restores Hit Points to a creature, that creature regains additional Hit Points on the turn you cast the spell. The additional Hit Points equal 2 plus the spell slot’s level.
This is terribly worded, meaning that the creature heals in the past whenever the spell restores hit points. I believe they meant "When a spell you cast with a spell slot restores Hit Points to a creature on the turn you cast the spell, that creature regains additional Hit Points on the turn you cast the spell". Either way, it does not trigger every turn for regenerate.
(IIRC, I pointed this out in a thread a while ago, and a staff member said they would show this to the devs, but there was no errata for this, so I don't know what's going on with that)
What this means is just that the extra healing occurs on the turn the spell is cast. This is likely intended to prevent an abuse case where you could start casting a spell with a longer casting time (e.g. Regenerate or Prayer of Healing) but then immediately drop concentration on it after the first turn, which (if this provision weren't present) would let you get the extra healing from Disciple of Life without actually casting the spell or expending a spell slot.
But you're right that it definitely doesn't trigger on every turn that Regenerate is active. Only once, on the final turn of casting the spell.
I think it's just to insure that healing-over-time spells don't get a disproportionately large boost from the ability compared to instantaneous spells.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
"Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level." that is not the wording of the feature. It is simply when you use(not cast) a spell to restore hit points. Therefore, rules as written, this interaction works.
Additionally, even without this interaction, Regenerate remains a strong spell that continues to revive fallen allies. But the class feature does state when you use a spell, NOT when you cast it. Unlike the 6th level bonus that DOES state when you cast it or the 2nd level Druid of Stars Chalice form that also states when you cast it. With how specific the wordings of rules and abilities are in D&D 5e, it seems clear that this is an intended feature of the spell that allows things like Auras of Life and Vitality to benefit from the extra HP. Assuming your DM considers returning to 1HP to be a form of gaining health as opposed to be a bypassing feature that simply sets your HP to one regardless of other factors.
The precedent set by the Goodberry ruling strongly suggests that Disciple of Life does apply to each instance of healing from Regenerate. The logic is that each time the target regains 1 hit point at the start of their turn, the Regenerate spell is being "used" to restore those hit points.
Therefore, based on the Goodberry ruling and the interpretation of "whenever you use a spell to restore hit points," the most consistent application of the rules would be that a Life Cleric casting Regenerate would indeed add their Disciple of Life bonus (2 + spell level) to the 1 hit point regained at the start of each of the target's turns.
Additionally, the feature states whenever a spell is used. Not an action is used, not when the spell is activated, not a bonus action, not a reaction. Even if we assume activated is the key factor here, regenerate activates at the start of the targets turns every turn. Meaning there is an inherent usage of the spell.
Also, I feel like I'm coming off pretty hostile, I don't mean to be. I actually LOVE being challenged as it always helps with learning more stuff and refining tactical procedures. So please don't take my responses negatively, know that I am VERY used to debating with actual points and information/evidence being raised. I think together we can get down to the bottom of this since there is no official ruling directly adhering to this interaction that I am aware of.
"Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level." that is not the wording of the feature. It is simply when you use(not cast) a spell to restore hit points. Therefore, rules as written, this interaction works.
You're describing the wording of the 2014 version. The people above you were discussing the 2024 version, which explicitly says it only provides extra healing on the turn you cast the spell.
Ah, okay, that makes more sense, I was wondering where they were getting their wording from. I was, however, responding to a thread from BEFORE the 2024 edition was out because my friends and I use 5e, not 5.5e. Only two of our group has even looked into 5.5 and they both say a lot of the changes aren't very good. The ONLY change I know about is the weapons abilities like Cleave, and to me that sounds awesome, but our group prefers unanimous decisions and since the rest of us know and like 5e we decided to stick with that. So then to correct myself(not really but sort of I guess?), in FITFH EDITION, the version this build was designed with, this is among the most powerful dedicated healers in the game without magic items since I never delved into magic items for the build as those are ENTIRELY dependent on the DM and Campaign. So this build may not work as well in 5.5(I have no idea if the chosen aspects are even allowed in 5.5 since I know nothing about the version), it is insanely powerful in 5e as it can provide immense healing and still deal tons of damage. I have another 5e build for a "Party Leader" with the ability to shine as the best person in any one roll at any given time for a short duration without the identical tactics being used, but is mostly made to support a party and fill any missing hole. He has the ability to summon a safe place for the party no matter where they are and heal for 42,000 HP among 2 hours for three people and one hour for a fourth while still having a total of 36 remaining spell slots to be used and have a back up clone of every player in the party. Granted, this is at level 20 with at least 130 days after obtaining level 15, but still.
TLDR - I didn't know you guys were talking about 5.5 in a 5e thread. In 5e, this tactic works perfectly fine, apparently in 5.5 it does not.
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A swift breeze in the night? Or a thief leaving your pockets much more light? Am I a shadow or a blight? Perhaps I'm a different form of might.
Why are we quoting people from four years ago, lol?
On topic, some people don't like the baggage that comes with religious context. This thread was made before 5.24e so bards are an obvious choice outside of religion where paladins are still often associated with religion, and druids or rangers are often associated with "the old religion". Warlocks are tied to patron, and even divine soul sorcerers are associated with divine magic. Bards are arcane casters and would be my first recommendation. Lore bards in particular for the extra secrets earlier. Artificers as the alternative.
Under 5.24 rules that doesn't really change, but mercy monks can be included in the list. The affiliation of bards, artificers, and monks to religion is rather non-existent. Druids and rangers aren't as affiliated unless a person ties them to "the old faith" stuff.
Basically, while yes at the roots these classes are bogged down by judeo-christian influences, there's a lot of other different ways you can take them.
I'm pretty sure Lolth isn't any kind of Christian...
From the description of Lolth in the various Monster Manuals, Lolth is definitely a Devil or a Demon.
Also, given how sensitive people in 'the real world' are to questions regarding the monotheistic faiths (Christianity, Muslim, Jewish) and the polytheistic faiths, I try to avoid dragging any mention of these faiths into D&D discussions. It is safer to invoke the fantasy deities from the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Eberron and elsewhere.
Her exact status is somewhat ambiguous in 5e lore- she's specifically described as becoming a demon lord after her failed attack on Corellon in the Tome of Foes, but since she doesn't have a stat block and Tiamat resides in the Hells but most definitely isn't a devil- still being Chaotic Evil rather than Lawful Evil- and the book also doesn't actually give her an entry under the Princes of the Abyss section, it's unclear whether she underwent a fundamental cosmic change the way Zariel did, or if she's just lumped under the common title for those who rule significant portions of the Abyss. Though ultimately the fact she gets listed as a deity should probably settle it- you don't see beings like Orcus or Zariel having Cleric domains associated with them.
Why are we quoting people from four years ago, lol?
On topic, some people don't like the baggage that comes with religious context. This thread was made before 5.24e so bards are an obvious choice outside of religion where paladins are still often associated with religion, and druids or rangers are often associated with "the old religion". Warlocks are tied to patron, and even divine soul sorcerers are associated with divine magic. Bards are arcane casters and would be my first recommendation. Lore bards in particular for the extra secrets earlier. Artificers as the alternative.
Under 5.24 rules that doesn't really change, but mercy monks can be included in the list. The affiliation of bards, artificers, and monks to religion is rather non-existent. Druids and rangers aren't as affiliated unless a person ties them to "the old faith" stuff.
Paladins are associated with Oaths now, no religion or gods required. Even Clerics are said to be drawing power from a diety, pantheon or other immortal entity.
I think the issue is mainly in the OP's perspective really.
If all you desire is someone to cast an occasional Cure Wounds or Healing Word, consider the Magic Initiate(Cleric) or the Magic Initiate(Druid) origin feats in the 2024 PHB. Otherwise, consider the Healer origin feat in 2024 PHB. Almost any character can take these feats, even Fireball throwing wizards.
Just to add to the confusion, the word "Cleric" comes from the Latin "Clericus" which comes from the Ancient Greek "κλῆρος" which meant "the clergy" (in our modern terms). I'm pretty sure the Ancient Greeks weren't practicing judeo-christian beliefs.
If you want to retain the priestly aspects and get away from the "Churchly" aspects, play a pagan Druid.
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A helpful post Davedamon.
The problem with labels is they come with archetype cultural baggage; Cleric, Palladin, Ranger, Bard. The monk is clearly based on Shaolin style monks from a Buddhist tradition, while Western or Orthodox monks would be clerics. And being a cleric or monk is a lifestyle / vocation / profession, while being a pagan priest was in some cultures not a full time role but an additional duty, perhaps an office held for a term rather than indefinitely.
Thank you all. food for thought.
You can always rename a class if you want to better suit the flavor of what you're looking for.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Absolutely. Keep in mind that everything except the hard numbers of a class is just fluff, and you have the power to completely rewrite it. You can make up the reasons you have the proficiencies you have. You can make up the explanation as to why you can cast the spells you have. Clerics don't need faith, Paladins don't need Oaths, etc. All that is just an optional, pre-built scaffold for how to characterize the group of abilities and features we call a class.
It is totally ok to make a character that can do the things you want to do, then go back and decide how to explain that in terms of the game world. If it's not a number on your character sheet, you can change it.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Well, we could go into the abyss of linguistic cultural baggage in a game where characters are defined at their foundation by the terms race and class, but as I said that would be an abyss on top of all the work the publishers claim to be endeavoring to make the game more broadly inclusive.
I'm still not sure what type of healer you're looking for other than "not evocative of christendom." However, if that pagan priest/shaman "medicine person" indefinite or perhaps termed role among other duties is the tact you're going for, you can look into "feats", which are traits a character can take on at fourth level and any other time the character's table provides for an increase in ability scores. There's a healer feat, though it's more physician than magic, but you could also go the Ritual Magic route and through either a written manual or something more totemic in place of books, grant the character access to clerical healing spell casting. But what really came to mind was the supernatural gifts presented for DM inspiration in the "other rewards" section of the DMG's treasure chapter. Through some sort of quest type performance, the character impresses the powers that be or the community they serve and is "blessed" with a healing ability to some degree. And like the proverbial (dang it, loaded language again) saying, what the powers that be granteth the powers that be can taketh away. Maybe once the blessing is attained, it must be maintained through politicking, apprenticeship, or trial by combat or ordeal or however you want your world or community to handle it. I like that idea enough myself that I've noted it in my own game notebook.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
I recently created a build that was actually meant to be a Fallen Angel and has the capability of healing the party members 40,000 HP over the course of the long rest, while having Agonizing Eldritch Blast for damage cantrip, using Charisma as the main stat, and still having the ability to cast more spells. The build involves 2 levels into Celestial Warlock first, 1 level into Life Cleric, and the last 17 levels into Divine Soul Sorcerer. This gives access to powerful 9th level spells and the same number of spell slots as having just been 18 levels into one class, while also adding the additional utility of the warlocks spells and Invocations. The builds Favored spells are aura of vitality with extended spell for 1 Sorcery Point each casting, and the Regenerate spell which heals 600 times at base without concentration. Extended spell makes it heal 1200 times at base. Life Cleric is not restricted to when you cast the spell but when you use the spell making it affect each turn of regeneration. This gives your target 10HP per turn for 1200 turns without concentration. This spell also does not end if the target falls unconscious, meaning the target will automatically get back up any time they are down but not out. This means that you can sufficiently keep 3 party members alive for two hours while still having levels 1-6 spell slots all available for damaging spells and burst heals. Happy Healing :)
A swift breeze in the night? Or a thief leaving your pockets much more light? Am I a shadow or a blight? Perhaps I'm a different form of might.
Healer? Is that a gamer term? D&D doesn't have healers. They have spell casters that can cast healing along with their other spells. But none whose sole purpose is healing.
The life domain feature says:
This is terribly worded, meaning that the creature heals in the past whenever the spell restores hit points. I believe they meant "When a spell you cast with a spell slot restores Hit Points to a creature on the turn you cast the spell, that creature regains additional Hit Points
on the turn you cast the spell". Either way, it does not trigger every turn for regenerate.(IIRC, I pointed this out in a thread a while ago, and a staff member said they would show this to the devs, but there was no errata for this, so I don't know what's going on with that)
What this means is just that the extra healing occurs on the turn the spell is cast. This is likely intended to prevent an abuse case where you could start casting a spell with a longer casting time (e.g. Regenerate or Prayer of Healing) but then immediately drop concentration on it after the first turn, which (if this provision weren't present) would let you get the extra healing from Disciple of Life without actually casting the spell or expending a spell slot.
But you're right that it definitely doesn't trigger on every turn that Regenerate is active. Only once, on the final turn of casting the spell.
pronouns: he/she/they
I think it's just to insure that healing-over-time spells don't get a disproportionately large boost from the ability compared to instantaneous spells.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
"Also starting at 1st level, your healing spells are more effective. Whenever you use a spell of 1st level or higher to restore hit points to a creature, the creature regains additional hit points equal to 2 + the spell's level." that is not the wording of the feature. It is simply when you use(not cast) a spell to restore hit points. Therefore, rules as written, this interaction works.
Additionally, even without this interaction, Regenerate remains a strong spell that continues to revive fallen allies. But the class feature does state when you use a spell, NOT when you cast it. Unlike the 6th level bonus that DOES state when you cast it or the 2nd level Druid of Stars Chalice form that also states when you cast it. With how specific the wordings of rules and abilities are in D&D 5e, it seems clear that this is an intended feature of the spell that allows things like Auras of Life and Vitality to benefit from the extra HP. Assuming your DM considers returning to 1HP to be a form of gaining health as opposed to be a bypassing feature that simply sets your HP to one regardless of other factors.
The precedent set by the Goodberry ruling strongly suggests that Disciple of Life does apply to each instance of healing from Regenerate. The logic is that each time the target regains 1 hit point at the start of their turn, the Regenerate spell is being "used" to restore those hit points.
Therefore, based on the Goodberry ruling and the interpretation of "whenever you use a spell to restore hit points," the most consistent application of the rules would be that a Life Cleric casting Regenerate would indeed add their Disciple of Life bonus (2 + spell level) to the 1 hit point regained at the start of each of the target's turns.
Additionally, the feature states whenever a spell is used. Not an action is used, not when the spell is activated, not a bonus action, not a reaction. Even if we assume activated is the key factor here, regenerate activates at the start of the targets turns every turn. Meaning there is an inherent usage of the spell.
Also, I feel like I'm coming off pretty hostile, I don't mean to be. I actually LOVE being challenged as it always helps with learning more stuff and refining tactical procedures. So please don't take my responses negatively, know that I am VERY used to debating with actual points and information/evidence being raised. I think together we can get down to the bottom of this since there is no official ruling directly adhering to this interaction that I am aware of.
A swift breeze in the night? Or a thief leaving your pockets much more light? Am I a shadow or a blight? Perhaps I'm a different form of might.
You're describing the wording of the 2014 version. The people above you were discussing the 2024 version, which explicitly says it only provides extra healing on the turn you cast the spell.
pronouns: he/she/they
Ah, okay, that makes more sense, I was wondering where they were getting their wording from. I was, however, responding to a thread from BEFORE the 2024 edition was out because my friends and I use 5e, not 5.5e. Only two of our group has even looked into 5.5 and they both say a lot of the changes aren't very good. The ONLY change I know about is the weapons abilities like Cleave, and to me that sounds awesome, but our group prefers unanimous decisions and since the rest of us know and like 5e we decided to stick with that. So then to correct myself(not really but sort of I guess?), in FITFH EDITION, the version this build was designed with, this is among the most powerful dedicated healers in the game without magic items since I never delved into magic items for the build as those are ENTIRELY dependent on the DM and Campaign. So this build may not work as well in 5.5(I have no idea if the chosen aspects are even allowed in 5.5 since I know nothing about the version), it is insanely powerful in 5e as it can provide immense healing and still deal tons of damage. I have another 5e build for a "Party Leader" with the ability to shine as the best person in any one roll at any given time for a short duration without the identical tactics being used, but is mostly made to support a party and fill any missing hole. He has the ability to summon a safe place for the party no matter where they are and heal for 42,000 HP among 2 hours for three people and one hour for a fourth while still having a total of 36 remaining spell slots to be used and have a back up clone of every player in the party. Granted, this is at level 20 with at least 130 days after obtaining level 15, but still.
TLDR - I didn't know you guys were talking about 5.5 in a 5e thread. In 5e, this tactic works perfectly fine, apparently in 5.5 it does not.
A swift breeze in the night? Or a thief leaving your pockets much more light? Am I a shadow or a blight? Perhaps I'm a different form of might.
Why are we quoting people from four years ago, lol?
On topic, some people don't like the baggage that comes with religious context. This thread was made before 5.24e so bards are an obvious choice outside of religion where paladins are still often associated with religion, and druids or rangers are often associated with "the old religion". Warlocks are tied to patron, and even divine soul sorcerers are associated with divine magic. Bards are arcane casters and would be my first recommendation. Lore bards in particular for the extra secrets earlier. Artificers as the alternative.
Under 5.24 rules that doesn't really change, but mercy monks can be included in the list. The affiliation of bards, artificers, and monks to religion is rather non-existent. Druids and rangers aren't as affiliated unless a person ties them to "the old faith" stuff.
From the description of Lolth in the various Monster Manuals, Lolth is definitely a Devil or a Demon.
Also, given how sensitive people in 'the real world' are to questions regarding the monotheistic faiths (Christianity, Muslim, Jewish) and the polytheistic faiths, I try to avoid dragging any mention of these faiths into D&D discussions. It is safer to invoke the fantasy deities from the Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Eberron and elsewhere.
Lolth is Chaotic Evil, so she's definitely not a devil. Maybe there's a clue in the name of the layer of the Abyss she lives in...
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Her exact status is somewhat ambiguous in 5e lore- she's specifically described as becoming a demon lord after her failed attack on Corellon in the Tome of Foes, but since she doesn't have a stat block and Tiamat resides in the Hells but most definitely isn't a devil- still being Chaotic Evil rather than Lawful Evil- and the book also doesn't actually give her an entry under the Princes of the Abyss section, it's unclear whether she underwent a fundamental cosmic change the way Zariel did, or if she's just lumped under the common title for those who rule significant portions of the Abyss. Though ultimately the fact she gets listed as a deity should probably settle it- you don't see beings like Orcus or Zariel having Cleric domains associated with them.
Lolth's pretty much always counted simultaneously as both a demon and a deity.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Paladins are associated with Oaths now, no religion or gods required. Even Clerics are said to be drawing power from a diety, pantheon or other immortal entity.
I think the issue is mainly in the OP's perspective really.
If all you desire is someone to cast an occasional Cure Wounds or Healing Word, consider the Magic Initiate(Cleric) or the Magic Initiate(Druid) origin feats in the 2024 PHB. Otherwise, consider the Healer origin feat in 2024 PHB. Almost any character can take these feats, even Fireball throwing wizards.
Just to add to the confusion, the word "Cleric" comes from the Latin "Clericus" which comes from the Ancient Greek "κλῆρος" which meant "the clergy" (in our modern terms). I'm pretty sure the Ancient Greeks weren't practicing judeo-christian beliefs.
If you want to retain the priestly aspects and get away from the "Churchly" aspects, play a pagan Druid.