They are back to their old 4th edition game of nickel and diming a great product down to many small transactions. I thought 5th edition was heading in a positive direction without the multiple player handbooks and massive low quality product push. They should really focus on developing a specific game play strategy and continuing to build excitement about the content. I am willing to drop money on these products but it is ridiculous, tedious, and confusing to have to buy multiple copies of a product over multiple platforms (ie. hardcover, fantasy grounds, dnd beyond, and now this potential reader).
And another thing, does anyone else find the digital Dragon magazine subpar? I am very disappointed in the content compared to the old physical copy of the magazine.
There is no reason why you "have to buy" anything besides 1 of those. You can play 5e perfectly fine on any of those platforms, or for free even. Nobody is forcing you to re-buy anything or to jump platforms.
I’ve always thought it was weird how people think just because options exist that they “have” to purchase them. Fellow nerds seem especially prone to this.
You only need to drop money on the solution that works for you. I've not dropped any coin on any of the options yet because none of them are what I need.
Playing Online: Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, D20Pro
Playing at the table usually remotely: DnDBeyond, DnDReader
What I'm waiting for: Hero Lab Online and Realm Works
I bought the PHB, DMG and MM on D&D Beyond with the understanding that my purchase would eventually include offline access via a DDB app, because that is what we were told.
You can relax - this hasn't changed! :)
If you have purchased the Player's Handbook for use on D&D Beyond, then you'll be able to access the Player's Handbook via the D&D Beyond mobile app, without paying extra for it.
One disclaimer on that - will there be a cost for the mobile app? I don't know, so I can't comment on that.
I can assure you 100% though that any content you have paid for on D&D Beyond will also be available to you in the D&D mobile app.
I have no info on D&D Reader that I am able to share.
Your original post offered little clarity and in fact did more to suggest that DDR will be the DDB app by not outright denying it.
If DDR is not the DDB app, then why don't DDB or WotC say so. Their refusal to deny it, and ask us to just have faith and trust them accomplishes the opposite, and is poor PR (I work in marketing).
And while I am glad you have clarified that we won't have to rebuy our purchased DDB content on the app, your second post neither clarifies whether or not DDR is DDB app, nor assuage concerns that we will have to pay again with your comment that you can't say there won't be a fee for the app itself to access the content I already bought.
So, let me caution DDB and WotC again, we were promised offline access to the products we purchase via DDB, I made my purchase based on that promise. Now you are saying that while I won't have to buy the content again, I might have to pay for the app to get the offline access I was promised.
That would be a mistake for DDB and WotC and not good PR.
It is possible they aren't sure. Perhaps D&D Beyond is/was developing their own app, then a separate company approached WotC about making digital content available on mobile (whoever is behind D&D Reader), and now D&D Beyond and D&D Reader are in negotiations about D&D Reader being the D&D Beyond mobile app, but there is no final decision or, if there has been a decision, final agreements about branding, etc. haven't been worked out. That would be one reason why everyone is, at this point, refusing to say whether or not D&D Reader is or isn't the D&D Beyond app.
I’ve always thought it was weird how people think just because options exist that they “have” to purchase them. Fellow nerds seem especially prone to this.
I've noticed this too. Also, I've noticed there is some sort of huge mental block in place that prevents people from differentiating WotC from third party companies that are offering a licensed product. D&D Beyond isn't WotC, if you have a complaint about the pricing structure that is a business decision of Curse, made within the constraints of their licensing deal with WotC. Similarly, if there are multiple platforms out there offering content, that is a good thing. They are all independent companies using licensing to create a platform. Given that not everyone wants the same thing, this is a good thing for the industry. Yes, it would be fantastic if there was a master "digital content license" you could port across services, but it 1) isn't going to happen and 2) is pretty rare in media industries in general.
I’ve always thought it was weird how people think just because options exist that they “have” to purchase them. Fellow nerds seem especially prone to this.
I've noticed this too. Also, I've noticed there is some sort of huge mental block in place that prevents people from differentiating WotC from third party companies that are offering a licensed product. D&D Beyond isn't WotC, if you have a complaint about the pricing structure that is a business decision of Curse, made within the constraints of their licensing deal with WotC. Similarly, if there are multiple platforms out there offering content, that is a good thing. They are all independent companies using licensing to create a platform. Given that not everyone wants the same thing, this is a good thing for the industry. Yes, it would be fantastic if there was a master "digital content license" you could port across services, but it 1) isn't going to happen and 2) is pretty rare in media industries in general.
PREEEEEACH!
Also 3) Isn't even something most people would ever need.
Also, I think the mental block comes from Confirmation Bias. Usually the angry responses come from a place of readied hostility, meaning they probably expected there to be a "catch" or "ripoff" somewhere before they even clicked the link to read (or more likely, angrily skimmed) the information. They wanted the news to be bad, so they interpreted it as bad no matter what it was. If it had been completely free, then they would have turned that negativity towards the quality of the service instead.
I know this because I used to be that way. I was a pretty adamant metalhead for most of my life, which is a different sort of nerd culture but a nerd culture nonetheless, and I've found that these kinds of groups do tend to attract our share of negatively inclined people. There are enough positive people around to not want to bail on the culture entirely, but it does get pretty ridiculous at times.
I just try to drive home the truth of the matter. It's a game, guys. Have fun with it. It's not worth getting angry over. You already have the books and can't afford another service? That's unfortunate, but you still get to play the game in its fullest capacity, the same way people have been playing for decades. Already paid for everything on Roll20? Awesome, then you can pretty much do most of what this service can do. It's up to you if the extra features are worth the asking price. If not, oh well, you still have a technologically advanced way to enjoy the entire game. No one expects anything, but the hope is that they are providing a product that you want to pay for, just like any business. No one owes you D&D. Or digital D&D. But it is here and readily available in multiple formats. Let's just chill and enjoy it and appreciate the community it fosters.
I bought the PHB, DMG and MM on D&D Beyond with the understanding that my purchase would eventually include offline access via a DDB app, because that is what we were told.
You can relax - this hasn't changed! :)
If you have purchased the Player's Handbook for use on D&D Beyond, then you'll be able to access the Player's Handbook via the D&D Beyond mobile app, without paying extra for it.
One disclaimer on that - will there be a cost for the mobile app? I don't know, so I can't comment on that.
I can assure you 100% though that any content you have paid for on D&D Beyond will also be available to you in the D&D mobile app.
I have no info on D&D Reader that I am able to share.
Your original post offered little clarity and in fact did more to suggest that DDR will be the DDB app by not outright denying it.
If DDR is not the DDB app, then why don't DDB or WotC say so. Their refusal to deny it, and ask us to just have faith and trust them accomplishes the opposite, and is poor PR (I work in marketing).
And while I am glad you have clarified that we won't have to rebuy our purchased DDB content on the app, your second post neither clarifies whether or not DDR is DDB app, nor assuage concerns that we will have to pay again with your comment that you can't say there won't be a fee for the app itself to access the content I already bought.
So, let me caution DDB and WotC again, we were promised offline access to the products we purchase via DDB, I made my purchase based on that promise. Now you are saying that while I won't have to buy the content again, I might have to pay for the app to get the offline access I was promised.
That would be a mistake for DDB and WotC and not good PR.
It is possible they aren't sure. Perhaps D&D Beyond is/was developing their own app, then a separate company approached WotC about making digital content available on mobile (whoever is behind D&D Reader), and now D&D Beyond and D&D Reader are in negotiations about D&D Reader being the D&D Beyond mobile app, but there is no final decision or, if there has been a decision, final agreements about branding, etc. haven't been worked out. That would be one reason why everyone is, at this point, refusing to say whether or not D&D Reader is or isn't the D&D Beyond app.
I would like to take this chance to remind everyone that there is a livestream on Twitch today that might be answering some of the questions posed here. It will definitely be worth your time to give it a watch.
I bought the PHB, DMG and MM on D&D Beyond with the understanding that my purchase would eventually include offline access via a DDB app, because that is what we were told.
You can relax - this hasn't changed! :)
If you have purchased the Player's Handbook for use on D&D Beyond, then you'll be able to access the Player's Handbook via the D&D Beyond mobile app, without paying extra for it.
One disclaimer on that - will there be a cost for the mobile app? I don't know, so I can't comment on that.
I can assure you 100% though that any content you have paid for on D&D Beyond will also be available to you in the D&D mobile app.
I have no info on D&D Reader that I am able to share.
Your original post offered little clarity and in fact did more to suggest that DDR will be the DDB app by not outright denying it.
If DDR is not the DDB app, then why don't DDB or WotC say so. Their refusal to deny it, and ask us to just have faith and trust them accomplishes the opposite, and is poor PR (I work in marketing).
And while I am glad you have clarified that we won't have to rebuy our purchased DDB content on the app, your second post neither clarifies whether or not DDR is DDB app, nor assuage concerns that we will have to pay again with your comment that you can't say there won't be a fee for the app itself to access the content I already bought.
So, let me caution DDB and WotC again, we were promised offline access to the products we purchase via DDB, I made my purchase based on that promise. Now you are saying that while I won't have to buy the content again, I might have to pay for the app to get the offline access I was promised.
That would be a mistake for DDB and WotC and not good PR.
It is possible they aren't sure. Perhaps D&D Beyond is/was developing their own app, then a separate company approached WotC about making digital content available on mobile (whoever is behind D&D Reader), and now D&D Beyond and D&D Reader are in negotiations about D&D Reader being the D&D Beyond mobile app, but there is no final decision or, if there has been a decision, final agreements about branding, etc. haven't been worked out. That would be one reason why everyone is, at this point, refusing to say whether or not D&D Reader is or isn't the D&D Beyond app.
I would like to take this chance to remind everyone that there is a livestream on Twitch today that might be answering some of the questions posed here. It will definitely be worth your time to give it a watch.
What time does that stream happen?
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Grant K. Smith A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien "Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
I am looking forward to today's Twitch stream; I hope there are some answers. Personally I think the news of D&D Reader was a leak, which is why the only vague articles that came out were all on the same day, with no official follow-up from anyone. If it had been "official" there would have been more info about it, instead of our rampant speculation.
Choice is a good think in a properly functioning marketplace. My concern isn't more or less "choice". I have (had) two concerns:
1. Consumer confusion over DDR vs DDB, and thinking that they should buy DDR as the better choice over DDB (lack of consumer education).
2. If the DDB "mobile app" turns out to be DDR, those of us who purchased the books via DDB (with the promise that our purchase would include offline access via an app on our devices) will be angry if we need to pay ANY fee to access those products via an offline app.
Though one of the mods here weighed in on my second concern, the mod's answer can't really be considered official, so hopefully there won't be any negative surprises.
As for my first concern; many here have argued that "people might like/want DDR" and that's fine, people are welcome to their opinions regarding products, but I worry consumers who aren't already familiar with DDB will see DDR first, purchase it, and then get less for their money. Some will argue that the layout/design/UX of DDR might be better than DDB's mobile app, since we haven't seen either yet, but even so, I don't understand the logic behind purchasing DDR at the same price as DDB, and getting LESS for your money just for UX design.
To be clear, for those that are familiar with it, this is what we know so far (assuming the leak was correct, and assuming DDR is not the DDB mobile app):
DDB Player's Handbook = $30 and includes desktop online access + mobile app offline access + the extras that come with DDB all in one place (character builder, Monster builder, campaign organization).
DDR Player's Handbook = $30 and includes mobile app offline access ONLY. That's it. Same price. Less stuff.
The counter argument might be "But you could buy DDR for offline access, and then use the free stuff of DDB online as well", to which I would respond, "yes, but why use two apps when you can just use one? Why live in two ecosystems that don't cross over, when you can use one and have it working together?"
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"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
Enjoy the wait. The Content Market has been "upcoming" for 5 years.
I was a contractor doing conversions for that P.o.S. software. I finished and got paid for over 50 conversions. The Content Market was promised to my 3PP clients 3 years ago, and it's STILL not out. Every 3 months or so, Rob posts that they're "almost" there. Stringing along folks to support the software and invest a ton of investment to create buzz seems to be what Rob is all about these days.
I watched the livestream with Badeye, while he didn't say anything about DDR, he did talk about the impending launch of the DDB mobile app, and based on what he said it is highly improbable that DDB app has anything to do with DDR, since we know DDR is using the Dragon+ technology.
Badeye also confirmed that there would be NO charge for the app, and that anything you have purchased in the web store will be downloadable to the app for offline use at NO additional cost.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing) You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I watched the livestream with Badeye, while he didn't say anything about DDR, he did talk about the impending launch of the DDB mobile app, and based on what he said it is highly improbable that DDB app has anything to do with DDR, since we know DDR is using the Dragon+ technology.
Badeye also confirmed that there would be NO charge for the app, and that anything you have purchased in the web store will be downloadable to the app for offline use at NO additional cost.
And for clarity's sake, anything you purchase via the app unlocks on the site as well.
I watched the livestream with Badeye, while he didn't say anything about DDR, he did talk about the impending launch of the DDB mobile app, and based on what he said it is highly improbable that DDB app has anything to do with DDR, since we know DDR is using the Dragon+ technology.
Badeye also confirmed that there would be NO charge for the app, and that anything you have purchased in the web store will be downloadable to the app for offline use at NO additional cost.
@DnDBeyond confirmed on twitter that DDR and DDB are two separate companies and two separate products.
Yeah they have not had fun launching the CM that's for sure.
Still though, Realm Works is more functional and powerful than any other Campaign Manager on the market currently. From what we know currently the CM is actually out. It just needs all the content to be released. From the many conversations I've had with Rob he's not about the buzz at all. He wants it done more than the rest of us.
The piracy thing will always be an issue, no matter how small the cost is. People tried to get around it here on DDB starting on hour 1 with homebrew stuff, using their physical books to try and publish material. I've seen $0.99 cost PDFs being pirated. If there's a PDF, it will be pirated within an hour, a day at most. PDF is pretty much the best thing to ever happen to piracy.
I would not say that PDF is the best thing to happen to piracy. Prior to PDF, people just shared pictures, or used a photocopier. Piracy has always been around, and will always be around. As soon as you realize it's your competition and treat it as such with proper pricing and features, then you can bring it to a manageable level. WoTC does not offer PDFS now, but a quick Google search will show you all the 5E PDFs you want.
When someone wants a PDF, they can look at that collection of crappy scans that are "good enough" or they can go to someplace and buy an official PDF with nice high quality art, proper searchable indexing and hyperlinks for a very compelling price point. I bought the hardcover book the month it came out. I would drop $15.00 or less on PHB PDF in a second without thinking about it.
I bought the PHB on D&D Beyond for $20 when it came out, but I can't use it, because I have no Internet access for my tablet at my gaming table.
As for D&D Reader, the price point is going to matter a LOT. And offline PC/Mac/Linux access is going to be a complete deal breaker. D&D Beyond has no plans to offer offline access for your desktop computer, and for me that's a problem.
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I’ve always thought it was weird how people think just because options exist that they “have” to purchase them. Fellow nerds seem especially prone to this.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
You only need to drop money on the solution that works for you. I've not dropped any coin on any of the options yet because none of them are what I need.
Playing Online: Fantasy Grounds, Roll20, D20Pro
Playing at the table usually remotely: DnDBeyond, DnDReader
What I'm waiting for: Hero Lab Online and Realm Works
Daplunk's YouTube Channel: Realm Works and Hero Lab Videos / Campaign Cartographer 3+ Videos
Realm Works Facebook User Group
Also, the Mod is not an employee of Curse. Most of the Mods on the forum only have minimally more inside knowledge than we do.
Having more options in the market to my mind can only be a good thing
Also 3) Isn't even something most people would ever need.
Also, I think the mental block comes from Confirmation Bias. Usually the angry responses come from a place of readied hostility, meaning they probably expected there to be a "catch" or "ripoff" somewhere before they even clicked the link to read (or more likely, angrily skimmed) the information. They wanted the news to be bad, so they interpreted it as bad no matter what it was. If it had been completely free, then they would have turned that negativity towards the quality of the service instead.
I know this because I used to be that way. I was a pretty adamant metalhead for most of my life, which is a different sort of nerd culture but a nerd culture nonetheless, and I've found that these kinds of groups do tend to attract our share of negatively inclined people. There are enough positive people around to not want to bail on the culture entirely, but it does get pretty ridiculous at times.
I just try to drive home the truth of the matter. It's a game, guys. Have fun with it. It's not worth getting angry over. You already have the books and can't afford another service? That's unfortunate, but you still get to play the game in its fullest capacity, the same way people have been playing for decades. Already paid for everything on Roll20? Awesome, then you can pretty much do most of what this service can do. It's up to you if the extra features are worth the asking price. If not, oh well, you still have a technologically advanced way to enjoy the entire game. No one expects anything, but the hope is that they are providing a product that you want to pay for, just like any business. No one owes you D&D. Or digital D&D. But it is here and readily available in multiple formats. Let's just chill and enjoy it and appreciate the community it fosters.
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InsidersA dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
Grant K. Smith
A+, Network+, MCP x 2, BSIT/VC, MIS
Software Engineer & Dungeon Master
"Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, for they are subtle and quick to anger." - J. R. R. Tolkien
"Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup" - Anonymous
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InsidersThe stream is at 11 pst.
A dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
I am looking forward to today's Twitch stream; I hope there are some answers. Personally I think the news of D&D Reader was a leak, which is why the only vague articles that came out were all on the same day, with no official follow-up from anyone. If it had been "official" there would have been more info about it, instead of our rampant speculation.
Choice is a good think in a properly functioning marketplace. My concern isn't more or less "choice". I have (had) two concerns:
1. Consumer confusion over DDR vs DDB, and thinking that they should buy DDR as the better choice over DDB (lack of consumer education).
2. If the DDB "mobile app" turns out to be DDR, those of us who purchased the books via DDB (with the promise that our purchase would include offline access via an app on our devices) will be angry if we need to pay ANY fee to access those products via an offline app.
Though one of the mods here weighed in on my second concern, the mod's answer can't really be considered official, so hopefully there won't be any negative surprises.
As for my first concern; many here have argued that "people might like/want DDR" and that's fine, people are welcome to their opinions regarding products, but I worry consumers who aren't already familiar with DDB will see DDR first, purchase it, and then get less for their money. Some will argue that the layout/design/UX of DDR might be better than DDB's mobile app, since we haven't seen either yet, but even so, I don't understand the logic behind purchasing DDR at the same price as DDB, and getting LESS for your money just for UX design.
To be clear, for those that are familiar with it, this is what we know so far (assuming the leak was correct, and assuming DDR is not the DDB mobile app):
DDB Player's Handbook = $30 and includes desktop online access + mobile app offline access + the extras that come with DDB all in one place (character builder, Monster builder, campaign organization).
DDR Player's Handbook = $30 and includes mobile app offline access ONLY. That's it. Same price. Less stuff.
The counter argument might be "But you could buy DDR for offline access, and then use the free stuff of DDB online as well", to which I would respond, "yes, but why use two apps when you can just use one? Why live in two ecosystems that don't cross over, when you can use one and have it working together?"
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
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InsidersPlease feel free to post questions you have for Badeye over in the Developer Stream with Badeye thread.
A dwarf with a canoe on his back? What could go wrong?
Realm Works...
Enjoy the wait. The Content Market has been "upcoming" for 5 years.
I was a contractor doing conversions for that P.o.S. software. I finished and got paid for over 50 conversions. The Content Market was promised to my 3PP clients 3 years ago, and it's STILL not out. Every 3 months or so, Rob posts that they're "almost" there. Stringing along folks to support the software and invest a ton of investment to create buzz seems to be what Rob is all about these days.
Lone Wolf is a flippin' mess.
I watched the livestream with Badeye, while he didn't say anything about DDR, he did talk about the impending launch of the DDB mobile app, and based on what he said it is highly improbable that DDB app has anything to do with DDR, since we know DDR is using the Dragon+ technology.
Badeye also confirmed that there would be NO charge for the app, and that anything you have purchased in the web store will be downloadable to the app for offline use at NO additional cost.
"Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks." MM p245 (original printing)
You don't OWN your books on DDB: WotC can change them any time. What do you think will happen when OneD&D comes out?
I am the Inquisitor Imperitus. I am judge, jury, and executioner. Draw your last breath now, as I send you to the Nine Hells.
Yeah they have not had fun launching the CM that's for sure.
Still though, Realm Works is more functional and powerful than any other Campaign Manager on the market currently. From what we know currently the CM is actually out. It just needs all the content to be released. From the many conversations I've had with Rob he's not about the buzz at all. He wants it done more than the rest of us.
Daplunk's YouTube Channel: Realm Works and Hero Lab Videos / Campaign Cartographer 3+ Videos
Realm Works Facebook User Group