So my current campaign is based on a wilderness desert setting and the party is trying to build up a small town (all level 4). When I was in the process of starting this campaign, I came up with some survival/exploration/wilderness rules for hunting, foraging, etc... The party seemed to like the idea of rationing resources while traveling and exploring. When they built their characters, quite a few of them built them to BE wilderness survivors (outlander background, survival expertise, Druid with goodberry) and because of this, the survival aspect of my campaign has become kinda pointless? the Outlander background all but assures they'll be able to find enough food, and for what they don't, goodberry makes up for.
So my question is, If the party has trivialized the survival part of the campaign to the point where having them roll is more of a formality, should I just drop this portion of it?
Pros: Dropping would save time for the group and effort of the resource tracker
Cons: Players might feel like their choices were pointless since we'd "never use them"
Well a string of successes is not pointless, it makes players feel successful. But I get that you want to pose meaningful challenges.
Food & water access is only one facet of survival. Let them have that win. Focus on stuff like exposure to the elements and problem solving to get past obstacles and roaming beasts and hazardous terrain.
Have situations where a successful survival check gives them an advantage in the situation rather than just being an I Win Button. "This is a tough situation, but it could have been even worse" is a good way to make their choices matter while still giving them challenges. Maybe give them a combat that would be deadly, but all the creatures have two levels of exhaustion because they aren't as good at finding food as the party. Or the survival/perception expert realizes the moment the party is being hunted and they have one round to get into favorable positions before the beasts strike.
Outlander may provide food automatically where food is easily forageable, but in a barren desert it would probably be much harder. I’d give advantage on checks to gather food and water, but not an auto-success. Goodberry is goodberry, though. Not much you can do with that, though it’ll cost the Druid a spell slot(and if the desert doesn’t yield many berries, that could be an issue too).
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"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
Survival in harsh environments becomes entirely trivial at 5th level when people get the Tiny Hut spell. They can use the Create Food and Water spell. The Tiny Hut spell takes care of petty much anything that could be a problem, in any environment people could conceivably survive to build a village in, let alone a town.
You might try talking to them about it. Like scatterbrained says, frame it like a win. Tell them they got so good at survival that it’s become trivial and you’re thinking about just hand-waving it. Then you can periodically narrate them using their powers.
I'm going to keep the survival aspect. As a player, I think it would be incredibly frustrating to build your character towards being good at something just for it to stop being needed. Like a rogue being really good at lockpicking to the point the DM stops putting in locks. Players WANT to roll well with the skills they've picked and they WANT to use features and spells they've chosen.
I think though I'm going to have a talk with them about increasing the difficulty of survival. Right now, I have it simplified to food and water, but If they're going to make that a Guarantee, then I think I need to incorporate exhaustion risks, as well as travel delays (sandstorms and such).
Bear in mind it doesn't necessarily say how much food they can find in a given area, and feeding a whole town doesn't sound easily done through foraging and goodberry alone.
Bear in mind it doesn't necessarily say how much food they can find in a given area, and feeding a whole town doesn't sound easily done through foraging and goodberry alone.
The town is its own beast with survival and stuff lol. I was more concerned with travel for the party!
Bear in mind it doesn't necessarily say how much food they can find in a given area, and feeding a whole town doesn't sound easily done through foraging and goodberry alone.
The town is its own beast with survival and stuff lol. I was more concerned with travel for the party!
Ah, ok. I also tried to grapple with survival and resource management during travel in my game, and I ended up focusing on treating time as a resource, effecting food stores, navigation, and the more time spent on the road the more chances of getting lost or into shenanigans. I wrote up a useful travel table for determining how player skill can effect navigation and what can go down if they fail those checks, which I created a thread about here if you think that might help:
I've been thinking about dumping my players into the Underdark and beginning to impose survival rules. But with a mid-level Druid and Paladin, I don't know how well that could work out. I suppose the best solution is to either impose some kind of magical deterrence on spells like Goodberry and Create Food and Water, or to simply ignore the rules and find some other way to impose a feeling of fear in my players. I'm reluctant to ditch these rules however, because I want my players to fully experience the weird fungi of the Underdark :(
to the OP's question, yes drop it. It is trivialized to the point of being pointless if characters are beyond level 1 or 2. I'd say by level 4 they're beyond worrying about it.
Most things become pretty trivial at 5th level when it comes to survival and exploration. Create Food and Water and the Tiny Hut spell take care of almost all the party's needs.
That said, they have to come out of the Hut sometime. Being lost is always possible. A Ranger only gets a second Favored Terrain at 6th, and even in their Favored Terrain, they can still fail their skill check. Flying can help, but there are many situations that are not good for flying, such as inclement weather. Extreme weather conditions can do a lot to make your party unhappy, lighting, tornados, hail, freezing winds, blowing sand...
Good ole Hut may be buried underneath things.
Every environment has some sort of feature that can make life difficult. Even the wide open prairie has dangers. There's nothing much around to shelter you from the storms.
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So my current campaign is based on a wilderness desert setting and the party is trying to build up a small town (all level 4). When I was in the process of starting this campaign, I came up with some survival/exploration/wilderness rules for hunting, foraging, etc... The party seemed to like the idea of rationing resources while traveling and exploring. When they built their characters, quite a few of them built them to BE wilderness survivors (outlander background, survival expertise, Druid with goodberry) and because of this, the survival aspect of my campaign has become kinda pointless? the Outlander background all but assures they'll be able to find enough food, and for what they don't, goodberry makes up for.
So my question is, If the party has trivialized the survival part of the campaign to the point where having them roll is more of a formality, should I just drop this portion of it?
Pros: Dropping would save time for the group and effort of the resource tracker
Cons: Players might feel like their choices were pointless since we'd "never use them"
Well a string of successes is not pointless, it makes players feel successful. But I get that you want to pose meaningful challenges.
Food & water access is only one facet of survival. Let them have that win. Focus on stuff like exposure to the elements and problem solving to get past obstacles and roaming beasts and hazardous terrain.
Have situations where a successful survival check gives them an advantage in the situation rather than just being an I Win Button. "This is a tough situation, but it could have been even worse" is a good way to make their choices matter while still giving them challenges. Maybe give them a combat that would be deadly, but all the creatures have two levels of exhaustion because they aren't as good at finding food as the party. Or the survival/perception expert realizes the moment the party is being hunted and they have one round to get into favorable positions before the beasts strike.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Outlander may provide food automatically where food is easily forageable, but in a barren desert it would probably be much harder. I’d give advantage on checks to gather food and water, but not an auto-success. Goodberry is goodberry, though. Not much you can do with that, though it’ll cost the Druid a spell slot(and if the desert doesn’t yield many berries, that could be an issue too).
"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
Survival in harsh environments becomes entirely trivial at 5th level when people get the Tiny Hut spell. They can use the Create Food and Water spell. The Tiny Hut spell takes care of petty much anything that could be a problem, in any environment people could conceivably survive to build a village in, let alone a town.
<Insert clever signature here>
You might try talking to them about it. Like scatterbrained says, frame it like a win. Tell them they got so good at survival that it’s become trivial and you’re thinking about just hand-waving it. Then you can periodically narrate them using their powers.
I think I've decided what I'll do!
I'm going to keep the survival aspect. As a player, I think it would be incredibly frustrating to build your character towards being good at something just for it to stop being needed. Like a rogue being really good at lockpicking to the point the DM stops putting in locks. Players WANT to roll well with the skills they've picked and they WANT to use features and spells they've chosen.
I think though I'm going to have a talk with them about increasing the difficulty of survival. Right now, I have it simplified to food and water, but If they're going to make that a Guarantee, then I think I need to incorporate exhaustion risks, as well as travel delays (sandstorms and such).
Bear in mind it doesn't necessarily say how much food they can find in a given area, and feeding a whole town doesn't sound easily done through foraging and goodberry alone.
The town is its own beast with survival and stuff lol. I was more concerned with travel for the party!
Ah, ok. I also tried to grapple with survival and resource management during travel in my game, and I ended up focusing on treating time as a resource, effecting food stores, navigation, and the more time spent on the road the more chances of getting lost or into shenanigans. I wrote up a useful travel table for determining how player skill can effect navigation and what can go down if they fail those checks, which I created a thread about here if you think that might help:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/dungeons-dragons-discussion/dungeon-masters-only/94159-travel-exploration-table
I've been thinking about dumping my players into the Underdark and beginning to impose survival rules. But with a mid-level Druid and Paladin, I don't know how well that could work out. I suppose the best solution is to either impose some kind of magical deterrence on spells like Goodberry and Create Food and Water, or to simply ignore the rules and find some other way to impose a feeling of fear in my players. I'm reluctant to ditch these rules however, because I want my players to fully experience the weird fungi of the Underdark :(
to the OP's question, yes drop it. It is trivialized to the point of being pointless if characters are beyond level 1 or 2. I'd say by level 4 they're beyond worrying about it.
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Most things become pretty trivial at 5th level when it comes to survival and exploration. Create Food and Water and the Tiny Hut spell take care of almost all the party's needs.
That said, they have to come out of the Hut sometime. Being lost is always possible. A Ranger only gets a second Favored Terrain at 6th, and even in their Favored Terrain, they can still fail their skill check. Flying can help, but there are many situations that are not good for flying, such as inclement weather. Extreme weather conditions can do a lot to make your party unhappy, lighting, tornados, hail, freezing winds, blowing sand...
Good ole Hut may be buried underneath things.
Every environment has some sort of feature that can make life difficult. Even the wide open prairie has dangers. There's nothing much around to shelter you from the storms.
<Insert clever signature here>