So a simple question, so far as I know, most Gods have immunity to most of the spells. I was wondering would a Demigod have it as well? For instance, if some caster casts a Dream spell on a Demigod, would it affect it? If yes, to what degree would a Demigod have a chance to take control of the dream spell while in it?
Thanks in advance!
Dream
5 illusion
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Special
Components: V S M (A handful of sand, a dab of ink, and a writing quill plucked from a sleeping bird)
Duration: 8 hours
Classes: Bard, Druid, Warlock, Wizard
This spell shapes a creature’s dreams. Choose a creature known to you as the target of this spell. The target must be on the same plane of existence as you. Creatures that don’t sleep, such as elves, can’t be contacted by this spell. You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger. While in the trance, the messenger is aware of his or her surroundings, but can’t take actions or move. If the target is asleep, the messenger appears in the target’s dreams and can converse with the target as long as it remains asleep, through the duration of the spell. The messenger can also shape the environment of the dream, creating landscapes, objects, and other images. The messenger can emerge from the trance at any time, ending the effect of the spell early. The target recalls the dream perfectly upon waking. If the target is awake when you cast the spell, the messenger knows it, and can either end the trance (and the spell) or wait for the target to fall asleep, at which point the messenger appears in the target’s dreams. You can make the messenger appear monstrous and terrifying to the target. If you do, the messenger can deliver a message of no more than ten words and then the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, echoes of the phantasmal monstrosity spawn a nightmare that lasts the duration of the target’s sleep and prevents the target from gaining any benefit from that rest. In addition, when the target wakes up, it takes 3d6 psychic damage. If you have a body part, lock of hair, clipping from a nail, or similar portion of the target’s body, the target makes its saving throw with disadvantage.
The spell is cast on yourself, and requires you to touch a willing creature, so the first question would be if they were willing. I believe that "demigod" would be one step higher than Legendary, so we may assume that they have Legendary actions at the least. So if you somehow found the Demigod and asked them to let you touch them, you could use a persuasion check, I would not suggest trying to use deception, or intimidation on such a being unless you are also a Demigod, I would imagine the DC would be pretty high. I would set that at 30, nearly impossible. If you can pull that off, you are all set.
You can make the messenger appear monstrous and terrifying to the target. If you do, the messenger can deliver a message of no more than ten words and then the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, echoes of the phantasmal monstrosity spawn a nightmare that lasts the duration of the target's sleep and prevents the target from gaining any benefit from that rest. In addition, when the target wakes up, it takes 3d6 psychic damage.
So then, if you want to try to do anything that the Demigod doesn't like, you can make yourself look monstrous and terrifying to the target. At this point, you get another DC 30 check, and can try any skill you like that is based on Charisma, and you get 10 words worth of message. Then they get to make a Wisdom save, with Legendary actions to use or they take 3d6 psychic damage.
Are you sure you want to do that to something as powerful as a Demigod? Even it they take the full 18 points of damage, they have got to be rocking a least 120 hit points assuming they are a 6d class, have a Con bonus of +5 (it seems unlikely it would be lower) and rolled the least amount they possibly could. This also assumes that they have no resistance or immunity to psychic damage, so they make take half that or nothing at all.
I see no mention of the target being able to take control of the dream and turn it against you though. So you're safe enough from that if you want to try it.
That should give you some frame of reference. Theoretically, pretty soon such characters would even be powerful enough to patronize Warlocks of their own.
Let's imagine our Demigod is a level 21 Fighter: Str 22, Dex 30, Con 30, Int 22, Wis 22, Cha 22. an average of 326 hit points, an armor class of 30 with Studded Leather armor +3, and a shield +3. They would have a Rapier +3, Legendary actions, at least two epic boons, and all of their equipment would have the power level of an Artifact, plus gods know what all else.
The spell is cast on yourself, and requires you to touch a willing creature, so the first question would be if they were willing.
You're misreading the spell, though to be fair it's horribly unclearly worded. There are basically two subjects for the spell
The messenger, who can either be yourself or a willing creature you touch.
The target, who must be known to you but has no range restrictions other than 'same plane' (which may in fact prevent demigods from being affected) and is not required to be willing.
I assume the question was about treating a demigod as a target. Presumably it can be a messenger if it wants to be.
This spell shapes a creature’s dreams. Choose a creature known to you as the target of this spell. The target must be on the same plane of existence as you. Creatures that don’t sleep, such as elves, can’t be contacted by this spell. You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger. While in the trance, the messenger is aware of his or her surroundings, but can’t take actions or move.
You cast the dream spell, the range is "self" You are are one of the targets, and either you, or the target, or both then can become the Messenger
The target, who must be known to you, and must be on the same plane as you, can only be affected if you touch them.
The target does not have to be willing, but if they are not, they cannot become the Messenger.
I missed the fact that they can indeed turn the effect of the spell against you if they want to, and the only thing we disagree upon is that I say you have to touch them.
This spell shapes a creature’s dreams. Choose a creature known to you as the target of this spell. The target must be on the same plane of existence as you. Creatures that don’t sleep, such as elves, can’t be contacted by this spell. You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger. While in the trance, the messenger is aware of his or her surroundings, but can’t take actions or move.
You cast the dream spell, the range is "self" You are are one of the targets, and either you, or the target, or both then can become the Messenger
The target, who must be known to you, and must be on the same plane as you, can only be affected if you touch them.
The target does not have to be willing, but if they are not, they cannot become the Messenger.
I missed the fact that they can indeed turn the effect of the spell against you if they want to, and the only thing we disagree upon is that I say you have to touch them.
No, either the caster or a creature designated by the caster (by touching that creature) is “the messenger.” The “target” must simply be on the same plane, and is not the messenger. If the “target” and the “messenger” were the same creature they would be visiting themselves in the dream which makes no sense.
You are correct. There are no player character demigods. In order for there to be any discussion at all on the nature of a real one, I have to extrapolate.
As for the range at which the target can be affected, it says "You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger."
And what the Dream spell does, it is to create a dream that they both can share between the two people, so yes, you can talk to yourself in the dream if you want to.
People talk to themselves all the time, but usually not out loud unless they are joking, or they are insane.
You are correct. There are no player character demigods. In order for there to be any discussion at all on the nature of a real one, I have to extrapolate.
As for the range at which the target can be affected, it says "You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger."
And what the Dream spell does, it is to create a dream that they both can share between the two people, so yes, you can talk to yourself in the dream if you want to.
People talk to themselves all the time, but usually not out loud unless they are joking, or they are insane.
It almost reads like you are misunderstanding the spell’s description. Theoretically yes the “messenger” could also be the “target” and vice versa, but that’s not what the spell is saying.
This spell shapes a creature's dreams. Choose a creature known to you as the target of this spell. The target must be on the same plane of existence as you. Creatures that don't sleep, such as elves, can't be contacted by this spell. You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger. While in the trance, the messenger is aware of his or her surroundings, but can't take actions or move.
If the target is asleep, the messenger appears in the target's dreams and can converse with the target as long as it remains asleep, through the duration of the spell. The messenger can also shape the environment of the dream, creating landscapes, objects, and other images. The messenger can emerge from the trance at any time, ending the effect of the spell early. The target recalls the dream perfectly upon waking. If the target is awake when you cast the spell, the messenger knows it, and can either end the trance (and the spell) or wait for the target to fall asleep, at which point the messenger appears in the target's dreams.
You can make the messenger appear monstrous and terrifying to the target. If you do, the messenger can deliver a message of no more than ten words and then the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, echoes of the phantasmal monstrosity spawn a nightmare that lasts the duration of the target's sleep and prevents the target from gaining any benefit from that rest. In addition, when the target wakes up, it takes 3d6 psychic damage.
If you have a body part, lock of hair, clipping from a nail, or similar portion of the target's body, the target makes its saving throw with disadvantage.
* - (a handful of sand, a dab of ink, and a writing quill plucked from a sleeping bird)
The target could be a bagillion quazillion miles away on an entirely different planet on the same plane of existence as the caster. The messenger can be either the caster, or one other creature the caster touches. If the caster designates a creature touched to be the messenger then the messenger enters the targets’s dreams. The only way the messenger and the caster could both be there together is if the caster designated themself as the target of the spell. (Which, is possible, but highly dangerous and therefore unlikely under all but the most niche of circumstances.)
So, while yes it is technically possible for the caster to designate themself as both the target and the messenger the spell… but why? To what end? Save the minute casting time and just talk to yourself. Ne?
And people talk to themselves out loud too, doesn’t mean they are suffering from any sort of mental health disorder.
To the OP question. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say gods are immune to spells. AFAIK, there's no stat blocks for gods in this edition (maybe you could make an argument for Tiamat or a couple others). So there's no RAW on what a god, or demigod, can or can't do. I think the bigger obstacle would be them being on the same plane. Gods tend not to just hang out on the prime material, unless the DM wants them to and that would typically be for a story reason. As Biowizard said, it's really going to be wholly up to the DM.
Ok. So long as you have some idea who the Demigod is, and you are on the same plane, you can cast dream from any range you like and as long as they are willing to listen, you can go ahead and send a message. If they are not willing, you will have to touch them. So this is the equivalent of those cold calls by sales people trying to sell you aluminum siding or something. The Demigod might get dozens per day. I wonder how willing they would be to accept a message from someone they didn't know.
And I did say that people talk to themselves without being insane. That tend to happen when they are doing so for their own, or someone else's, amusement. I do that a lot.
Ok. So long as you have some idea who the Demigod is, and you are on the same plane, you can cast dream from any range you like and as long as they are willing to listen, you can go ahead and send a message. If they are not willing, you will have to touch them.
Still wrong. You have to touch the messenger. You do not have to touch the target.
And I did say that people talk to themselves without being insane. That tend to happen when they are doing so for their own, or someone else's, amusement. I do that a lot.
Still wrong, people do sometimes speak out loud to themselves for other reasons that have nothing to do with either amusing anyone and without having any mental health disorders. And calling people “insane” is kinda insulting to people with mental health disorders.
to clarify, I was thinking of one of my PC-s to cast a dream spell in which he is the messenger and demigod who is on the same plane and has met with the PC on one occasion is the target. Would the spell work, since non ST should be rolled if he wants to communicate with him through dream spell, no monstrous appearances. Demigod isn't by any means willing for his dreams to be invaded, but by the definition of the spell doesn't have any vote in this.
You seem to have it pretty much down. The player can cast dream on a demigod they met once, the spell does work, and the demigod's only vote is to make their saving throw. There is one odd quirk. It says that in the case of a willing target, the demigod has to be touched. Otherwise, you can do this from anywhere in the same plane that you desire. I can't imagine a demigod who only met someone once would be willing to allow you to touch them, and if they were forced by the spell to allow communication from wherever, what happens then? Keep in mind, you only get 10 words to use each time, so those words have got to be hard to use, and the message would have to be really important to you.
to clarify, I was thinking of one of my PC-s to cast a dream spell in which he is the messenger and demigod who is on the same plane and has met with the PC on one occasion is the target. Would the spell work, since non ST should be rolled if he wants to communicate with him through dream spell, no monstrous appearances. Demigod isn't by any means willing for his dreams to be invaded, but by the definition of the spell doesn't have any vote in this.
You’ll need to ask your DM. Powers of gods are entirely up to them. It may work, or DM may rule the demigod doesn’t sleep, or isn’t sleeping just then. Or really anything they want. Why not just use sending?
So a simple question, so far as I know, most Gods have immunity to most of the spells. I was wondering would a Demigod have it as well? For instance, if some caster casts a Dream spell on a Demigod, would it affect it? If yes, to what degree would a Demigod have a chance to take control of the dream spell while in it?
Thanks in advance!
Dream
If the target is asleep, the messenger appears in the target’s dreams and can converse with the target as long as it remains asleep, through the duration of the spell. The messenger can also shape the environment of the dream, creating landscapes, objects, and other images. The messenger can emerge from the trance at any time, ending the effect of the spell early. The target recalls the dream perfectly upon waking. If the target is awake when you cast the spell, the messenger knows it, and can either end the trance (and the spell) or wait for the target to fall asleep, at which point the messenger appears in the target’s dreams.
You can make the messenger appear monstrous and terrifying to the target. If you do, the messenger can deliver a message of no more than ten words and then the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, echoes of the phantasmal monstrosity spawn a nightmare that lasts the duration of the target’s sleep and prevents the target from gaining any benefit from that rest. In addition, when the target wakes up, it takes 3d6 psychic damage.
If you have a body part, lock of hair, clipping from a nail, or similar portion of the target’s body, the target makes its saving throw with disadvantage.
I think it'd depend on the demigod, and on the DM's ruling.
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The spell is cast on yourself, and requires you to touch a willing creature, so the first question would be if they were willing. I believe that "demigod" would be one step higher than Legendary, so we may assume that they have Legendary actions at the least. So if you somehow found the Demigod and asked them to let you touch them, you could use a persuasion check, I would not suggest trying to use deception, or intimidation on such a being unless you are also a Demigod, I would imagine the DC would be pretty high. I would set that at 30, nearly impossible. If you can pull that off, you are all set.
You can make the messenger appear monstrous and terrifying to the target. If you do, the messenger can deliver a message of no more than ten words and then the target must make a Wisdom saving throw. On a failed save, echoes of the phantasmal monstrosity spawn a nightmare that lasts the duration of the target's sleep and prevents the target from gaining any benefit from that rest. In addition, when the target wakes up, it takes 3d6 psychic damage.
So then, if you want to try to do anything that the Demigod doesn't like, you can make yourself look monstrous and terrifying to the target. At this point, you get another DC 30 check, and can try any skill you like that is based on Charisma, and you get 10 words worth of message. Then they get to make a Wisdom save, with Legendary actions to use or they take 3d6 psychic damage.
Are you sure you want to do that to something as powerful as a Demigod? Even it they take the full 18 points of damage, they have got to be rocking a least 120 hit points assuming they are a 6d class, have a Con bonus of +5 (it seems unlikely it would be lower) and rolled the least amount they possibly could. This also assumes that they have no resistance or immunity to psychic damage, so they make take half that or nothing at all.
I see no mention of the target being able to take control of the dream and turn it against you though. So you're safe enough from that if you want to try it.
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A 20th-level PC with even a single epic boon is considered almost a demigod:
“Many of the boons are extraordinary and represent the gradual transformation of a character into something resembling a demigod.” —
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dmg/other-rewards#EpicBoons (Paragraph 4, 2nd Sentence)
That should give you some frame of reference. Theoretically, pretty soon such characters would even be powerful enough to patronize Warlocks of their own.
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Good point.
Let's imagine our Demigod is a level 21 Fighter: Str 22, Dex 30, Con 30, Int 22, Wis 22, Cha 22. an average of 326 hit points, an armor class of 30 with Studded Leather armor +3, and a shield +3. They would have a Rapier +3, Legendary actions, at least two epic boons, and all of their equipment would have the power level of an Artifact, plus gods know what all else.
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You're misreading the spell, though to be fair it's horribly unclearly worded. There are basically two subjects for the spell
I assume the question was about treating a demigod as a target. Presumably it can be a messenger if it wants to be.
This spell shapes a creature’s dreams. Choose a creature known to you as the target of this spell. The target must be on the same plane of existence as you. Creatures that don’t sleep, such as elves, can’t be contacted by this spell. You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger. While in the trance, the messenger is aware of his or her surroundings, but can’t take actions or move.
I missed the fact that they can indeed turn the effect of the spell against you if they want to, and the only thing we disagree upon is that I say you have to touch them.
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That’s impossible, there is no such thing as a level 21 anything.
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No, either the caster or a creature designated by the caster (by touching that creature) is “the messenger.” The “target” must simply be on the same plane, and is not the messenger. If the “target” and the “messenger” were the same creature they would be visiting themselves in the dream which makes no sense.
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You are correct. There are no player character demigods. In order for there to be any discussion at all on the nature of a real one, I have to extrapolate.
As for the range at which the target can be affected, it says "You, or a willing creature you touch, enters a trance state, acting as a messenger."
And what the Dream spell does, it is to create a dream that they both can share between the two people, so yes, you can talk to yourself in the dream if you want to.
People talk to themselves all the time, but usually not out loud unless they are joking, or they are insane.
<Insert clever signature here>
It almost reads like you are misunderstanding the spell’s description. Theoretically yes the “messenger” could also be the “target” and vice versa, but that’s not what the spell is saying.
The target could be a bagillion quazillion miles away on an entirely different planet on the same plane of existence as the caster. The messenger can be either the caster, or one other creature the caster touches. If the caster designates a creature touched to be the messenger then the messenger enters the targets’s dreams. The only way the messenger and the caster could both be there together is if the caster designated themself as the target of the spell. (Which, is possible, but highly dangerous and therefore unlikely under all but the most niche of circumstances.)
So, while yes it is technically possible for the caster to designate themself as both the target and the messenger the spell… but why? To what end? Save the minute casting time and just talk to yourself. Ne?
And people talk to themselves out loud too, doesn’t mean they are suffering from any sort of mental health disorder.
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To the OP question. I wouldn't necessarily go so far as to say gods are immune to spells. AFAIK, there's no stat blocks for gods in this edition (maybe you could make an argument for Tiamat or a couple others). So there's no RAW on what a god, or demigod, can or can't do. I think the bigger obstacle would be them being on the same plane. Gods tend not to just hang out on the prime material, unless the DM wants them to and that would typically be for a story reason. As Biowizard said, it's really going to be wholly up to the DM.
Ok. So long as you have some idea who the Demigod is, and you are on the same plane, you can cast dream from any range you like and as long as they are willing to listen, you can go ahead and send a message. If they are not willing, you will have to touch them. So this is the equivalent of those cold calls by sales people trying to sell you aluminum siding or something. The Demigod might get dozens per day. I wonder how willing they would be to accept a message from someone they didn't know.
And I did say that people talk to themselves without being insane. That tend to happen when they are doing so for their own, or someone else's, amusement. I do that a lot.
<Insert clever signature here>
Still wrong. You have to touch the messenger. You do not have to touch the target.
Still wrong, people do sometimes speak out loud to themselves for other reasons that have nothing to do with either amusing anyone and without having any mental health disorders. And calling people “insane” is kinda insulting to people with mental health disorders.
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Wow, thank you all for all the answers,
to clarify, I was thinking of one of my PC-s to cast a dream spell in which he is the messenger and demigod who is on the same plane and has met with the PC on one occasion is the target. Would the spell work, since non ST should be rolled if he wants to communicate with him through dream spell, no monstrous appearances. Demigod isn't by any means willing for his dreams to be invaded, but by the definition of the spell doesn't have any vote in this.
You seem to have it pretty much down. The player can cast dream on a demigod they met once, the spell does work, and the demigod's only vote is to make their saving throw. There is one odd quirk. It says that in the case of a willing target, the demigod has to be touched. Otherwise, you can do this from anywhere in the same plane that you desire. I can't imagine a demigod who only met someone once would be willing to allow you to touch them, and if they were forced by the spell to allow communication from wherever, what happens then? Keep in mind, you only get 10 words to use each time, so those words have got to be hard to use, and the message would have to be really important to you.
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You’ll need to ask your DM. Powers of gods are entirely up to them. It may work, or DM may rule the demigod doesn’t sleep, or isn’t sleeping just then. Or really anything they want.
Why not just use sending?
Xalthu, I wish I could upvote that comment more than once. "Why not just use sending?" Indeed. Why not?
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