I was on the phone to one of my party members because of we're all friends and he said because of divine intervention or something that cleric's can have as a spell that can just give him a tank and I don't feel comfortable with it all. He's really persistent about it and I keep saying no. What should I do???
Divine Intervention is only available for clerics at level 10, if they aren't at that level they can't do that. The successful number for some one to actually get the divine intervention right is a 10% chance of success, meaning don't bother unless you reach level 20 which increases it to a 19 %. If you really don't want to give them a tank then don't and give them something else. It always depend on you.
Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.
Imploring your deity’s aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your cleric level, your deity intervenes. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate.
If your deity intervenes, you can’t use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest.
At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.
Divine Intervention is an ability available to Clerics in Dungeons & Dragons 5e. Clerics can call upon their deity in a time of great need to beg for assistance.
Divine Intervention Beginning at level 10, a Cleric can call upon their deity for assistance during times of great need. Using an action, describe what form of assistance you are requesting to your DM and roll percentile dice. If the result is equal to or lower than your cleric level, your call succeeds. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention. If you are successful, you cannot use this ability again for 7 days. Otherwise, you may use it again after a long rest.
At level 20, you automatically succeed on your call for aid and do not need to roll.
What Effects Can It Have? The effects of Divine Intervention in 5e are ultimately up to the DM. The most basic form of intervention is to simply receive the effects of a cleric spell. However, there are no limits regarding possible outcomes. The DM may choose to be very particular with how they interpret a player’s request. Like the Wish spell, a poorly worded call for aid may backfire.
The important thing to keep in mind though is that Paladins a questing class. Each Paladin has been sent on a particular quest by their deity. As such, any assistance from their deity should be in accordance with furthering that quest.
Divine Intervention is meant to be a last-ditch effort to help save the party in a time of great peril. When this ability becomes available, there is only a 10% chance of success. A successful roll should be rewarded in line with these odds. Unlike spells like Wish that automatically succeed, there is less room for rules-lawyering a call for Divine Intervention.
I was on the phone to one of my party members because of we're all friends and he said because of divine intervention or something that cleric's can have as a spell that can just give him a tank and I don't feel comfortable with it all. He's really persistent about it and I keep saying no. What should I do???
Continue to say no? Divine intervention gives based on what the deity thinks your needs are, not what you want.
My safeguard against such things is to increase the difficulty statistically. If the player wants something unreasonable, have them roll the Divine Intervention check at disadvantage. It's not RAW, but it is a compromise. A 1% chance to do something silly is pretty safe, and if it happens, then it will be uniquely memorable. Also, devil/genie contract rules apply. If the player does not express themselves very clearly, then there is a lot of room for interpretation.
The first thing that comes to mind for a "tank" would be the Apparatus of Kwalish.
You could also give them a Da Vinci Era tank that is cumbersome and requires a full team to operate.
Identify what specifically makes you uncomfortable about a player's request and address that directly without refusing the request outright.
Always remember that as DM you are in control of the world. You can give the players something gamebreaking and then create a scenario that negates it later. For example, future technology, like the Plasma Rifle, require exotic fuels that are rare at best, and essentially impossible to replace without continuous DM generosity.
Like a few others have already addressed the way this is used could be open to interpretation based on what a "Tank" is. Originally tanks didn't have weapons or anything that generally comes to mind when one thinks of a classic tank. People default to a battle tank generally.
Tanks were used for water transport for troops. Give them a Tank but that could more or less consist of a metal box with treads that has a fuel that might not exist in the world you are using. That or a tank could be taken as a container of some type.
If the cleric worships from a trickster domain, it would be fitting to use the most ridiculous or mischievous interpretation possible that the diety would find appropriate.
If they don't perhaps when they reach out for divine intervention the wrong diety or powerful entity gets the message instead and decides to play a trick on them. Such as tossing the cleric into a giant fish tank filled with sharks or the deity deciding to teleport them to safety inside a large tank...which just so happens to be a terrarium of the diety where the cleric becomes a pet temporarily.
If they complain to their diety this was clearly just a test of faith. A truly faithful cleric would find meaning in the interpretation. hehe.
Always remember as the DM it is up to you what happens. The books and all content are merely guidelines.
Tell them that this is the full list of Vehicles available in D&D, and that since a Tank is not on the list, neither their PC nor the PC’s Deity have any clue what a tank is:
I would encourage you to pull this player aside and talk about how his persistence is making you feel and that you do not wish to allow tanks into this game in any shape or form. Sometimes people are not aware of how their comments are seen to others - I certainly am guilty of this. It may help a great deal to have this side conversation. You are the DM and therefore the referee of the game. The players rely on you to tell them no just like they rely on you to tell them yes.
As others have said, I suggest talking to this player. Many players and even some DMs see D&D as a video-game, where the object of the game is to "win." While that interpretation isn't explicitly "wrong," it certainly isn't right. D&D is not just a game, it's a story. It's a cross between a book and a board game, but everyone is a writer and the DM is the designer. The DM's role is to present situations and characters to the players, and the players' to react to said situations. This means that the DM determines the setting. If you say there are no guns or tanks in this world, there are no guns or tanks. Period. Talk to this player and make sure they understand that. Hopefully they can learn that, through proper role-play, they could enjoy a truly meaningful adventure.
If the player is insistent, put the foot down. Determine that their character cannot use Divine Intervention to gain a tank because they don't know what a tank is. Decide that their deity would not provide them with a tank and would instead provide an alternative gift. Tell them that the technology required to make a tank doesn't exist at this time. Give them a "tank" of something else. If the player is draining the fun at the table and refuses to back down, you have the right, authority, and obligation to remove them from the game. (Though that is a last resort.)
One last note: You say that this player insists that getting a tank from their deity is within the rules. But the #0-10 rules of D&D is that the DM has the final word on the interpretation of rules. You have the power to simply say, "No, it doesn't work like that." Because it doesn't.
Yeah they are. They also want to make bombs and start war at lvl 3 :.)
Have an out of character discussion and tell them just to stop. They may think they’re being funny, but it’s actually just annoying. So they can either stop or leave the group. Be blunt and very clear. Otherwise they will just keep doing it.
To me this sounds that dungeon master is saying "No" to other player's fun. Some players want to test different kind of things and see how their actions impact the world. Why they cant try to make a bomb at level 3?
Yeah they are. They also want to make bombs and start war at lvl 3 :.)
I don't know what kind of story your doing, but could you use this? Have him go get the components he needs, or the alchemist he needs to make bombs. What kind of political stuff is he trying to do to start a war? Why? How? These could all make a cool sand box adventure. You could run with this, assuming he is able to be serious. If it's a joke or screwing with your game, I go back to my first answer, tell him to stop metagaming.
Divine Intervention is one of those things that, somewhat understandably, players often overestimate the potential of. Sort of like the Wish spell... the ability doesn't have a built-in restriction on what it could potentially do.
If a DM decides that Divine Intervention can successfully generate a modern-day Tank and also grant the character the knowledge of how to operate it, then sure, it can. But I think even a generous DM needs to approach this in a way that doesn't completely trivialize the game. Sure, that's fun in the moment for a sort of silly instance of chaos, but it quickly just becomes something dumb that ruins the tone and development of the game.
The Divine Intervention description encourages DM's to try and manifest the Divine Intervention in the form of a Cleric Spell. I would instead use it to cast Summon Celestial as a concentration-free spell... that way a Large Celestial can appear and hey, guess what, it takes the form of a big goofy tank with googly eyes (or however you want it to look). Now there's a tank on the board, you have a stat block you can easily reference when deciding what it can or can't do, and you have a built-in duration that it persists so the player doesn't just have a tank with them after that point.
Divine Intervention is one of those things that, somewhat understandably, players often overestimate the potential of. Sort of like the Wish spell... the ability doesn't have a built-in restriction on what it could potentially do.
Other than 'The DM chooses the nature of the intervention' and the implications of 'In times of great need'. Unlike Wish the DM isn't actively encouraged to hose the PCs, but they should generate an effect that's in line with the need.
Look, the player doesn't know how to play D&D. That's fine! We were all new once.
It is a role-playing game. The character does not know what the player knows. They've never seen a tank. They probably have never seen a bomb. The *player* knows what those things are, but the *character* does not.
If you want, it might be fun to have the character be a sort of inventor, who tries to come up with something like a tank, but look at medieval versions of tanks and go from there. Maybe an armored cart?
Even the a world famous genius working with cannon still designed something that was too heavy to move:
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Another thing with this player is that I've played other campaigns with them and they are a consistent problem player. They have done. Questionable things... and known to be sometimes a bit of a murder hobo so i'm really hesitant with the fact of them having a tank
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I was on the phone to one of my party members because of we're all friends and he said because of divine intervention or something that cleric's can have as a spell that can just give him a tank and I don't feel comfortable with it all. He's really persistent about it and I keep saying no. What should I do???
Divine Intervention is only available for clerics at level 10, if they aren't at that level they can't do that. The successful number for some one to actually get the divine intervention right is a 10% chance of success, meaning don't bother unless you reach level 20 which increases it to a 19 %. If you really don't want to give them a tank then don't and give them something else. It always depend on you.
Beginning at 10th level, you can call on your deity to intervene on your behalf when your need is great.
Imploring your deity’s aid requires you to use your action. Describe the assistance you seek, and roll percentile dice. If you roll a number equal to or lower than your cleric level, your deity intervenes. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention; the effect of any cleric spell or cleric domain spell would be appropriate.
If your deity intervenes, you can’t use this feature again for 7 days. Otherwise, you can use it again after you finish a long rest.
At 20th level, your call for intervention succeeds automatically, no roll required.
Divine Intervention is an ability available to Clerics in Dungeons & Dragons 5e. Clerics can call upon their deity in a time of great need to beg for assistance.
Divine Intervention
Beginning at level 10, a Cleric can call upon their deity for assistance during times of great need. Using an action, describe what form of assistance you are requesting to your DM and roll percentile dice. If the result is equal to or lower than your cleric level, your call succeeds. The DM chooses the nature of the intervention. If you are successful, you cannot use this ability again for 7 days. Otherwise, you may use it again after a long rest.
At level 20, you automatically succeed on your call for aid and do not need to roll.
What Effects Can It Have?
The effects of Divine Intervention in 5e are ultimately up to the DM. The most basic form of intervention is to simply receive the effects of a cleric spell. However, there are no limits regarding possible outcomes. The DM may choose to be very particular with how they interpret a player’s request. Like the Wish spell, a poorly worded call for aid may backfire.
The important thing to keep in mind though is that Paladins a questing class. Each Paladin has been sent on a particular quest by their deity. As such, any assistance from their deity should be in accordance with furthering that quest.
Divine Intervention is meant to be a last-ditch effort to help save the party in a time of great peril. When this ability becomes available, there is only a 10% chance of success. A successful roll should be rewarded in line with these odds. Unlike spells like Wish that automatically succeed, there is less room for rules-lawyering a call for Divine Intervention.
Tell him not to metagame. Unless you have set your game in a world with tanks his cleric has no idea what a tank is.
Continue to say no? Divine intervention gives based on what the deity thinks your needs are, not what you want.
My safeguard against such things is to increase the difficulty statistically. If the player wants something unreasonable, have them roll the Divine Intervention check at disadvantage. It's not RAW, but it is a compromise. A 1% chance to do something silly is pretty safe, and if it happens, then it will be uniquely memorable. Also, devil/genie contract rules apply. If the player does not express themselves very clearly, then there is a lot of room for interpretation.
The first thing that comes to mind for a "tank" would be the Apparatus of Kwalish.
You could also give them a Da Vinci Era tank that is cumbersome and requires a full team to operate.
Identify what specifically makes you uncomfortable about a player's request and address that directly without refusing the request outright.
Always remember that as DM you are in control of the world. You can give the players something gamebreaking and then create a scenario that negates it later. For example, future technology, like the Plasma Rifle, require exotic fuels that are rare at best, and essentially impossible to replace without continuous DM generosity.
Give him a storage tank full of beer. ;-)
Wait they where talking about an actual tank?
Like a few others have already addressed the way this is used could be open to interpretation based on what a "Tank" is. Originally tanks didn't have weapons or anything that generally comes to mind when one thinks of a classic tank. People default to a battle tank generally.
Tanks were used for water transport for troops. Give them a Tank but that could more or less consist of a metal box with treads that has a fuel that might not exist in the world you are using. That or a tank could be taken as a container of some type.
If the cleric worships from a trickster domain, it would be fitting to use the most ridiculous or mischievous interpretation possible that the diety would find appropriate.
If they don't perhaps when they reach out for divine intervention the wrong diety or powerful entity gets the message instead and decides to play a trick on them. Such as tossing the cleric into a giant fish tank filled with sharks or the deity deciding to teleport them to safety inside a large tank...which just so happens to be a terrarium of the diety where the cleric becomes a pet temporarily.
If they complain to their diety this was clearly just a test of faith. A truly faithful cleric would find meaning in the interpretation. hehe.
Always remember as the DM it is up to you what happens. The books and all content are merely guidelines.
Tell them that this is the full list of Vehicles available in D&D, and that since a Tank is not on the list, neither their PC nor the PC’s Deity have any clue what a tank is:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/vehicles
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Hello Wispfall,
I would encourage you to pull this player aside and talk about how his persistence is making you feel and that you do not wish to allow tanks into this game in any shape or form. Sometimes people are not aware of how their comments are seen to others - I certainly am guilty of this. It may help a great deal to have this side conversation. You are the DM and therefore the referee of the game. The players rely on you to tell them no just like they rely on you to tell them yes.
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As others have said, I suggest talking to this player. Many players and even some DMs see D&D as a video-game, where the object of the game is to "win." While that interpretation isn't explicitly "wrong," it certainly isn't right. D&D is not just a game, it's a story. It's a cross between a book and a board game, but everyone is a writer and the DM is the designer. The DM's role is to present situations and characters to the players, and the players' to react to said situations. This means that the DM determines the setting. If you say there are no guns or tanks in this world, there are no guns or tanks. Period. Talk to this player and make sure they understand that. Hopefully they can learn that, through proper role-play, they could enjoy a truly meaningful adventure.
If the player is insistent, put the foot down. Determine that their character cannot use Divine Intervention to gain a tank because they don't know what a tank is. Decide that their deity would not provide them with a tank and would instead provide an alternative gift. Tell them that the technology required to make a tank doesn't exist at this time. Give them a "tank" of something else. If the player is draining the fun at the table and refuses to back down, you have the right, authority, and obligation to remove them from the game. (Though that is a last resort.)
One last note: You say that this player insists that getting a tank from their deity is within the rules. But the #0-10 rules of D&D is that the DM has the final word on the interpretation of rules. You have the power to simply say, "No, it doesn't work like that." Because it doesn't.
Yeah they are. They also want to make bombs and start war at lvl 3 :.)
Have an out of character discussion and tell them just to stop. They may think they’re being funny, but it’s actually just annoying. So they can either stop or leave the group. Be blunt and very clear. Otherwise they will just keep doing it.
To me this sounds that dungeon master is saying "No" to other player's fun. Some players want to test different kind of things and see how their actions impact the world. Why they cant try to make a bomb at level 3?
I don't know what kind of story your doing, but could you use this? Have him go get the components he needs, or the alchemist he needs to make bombs. What kind of political stuff is he trying to do to start a war? Why? How? These could all make a cool sand box adventure. You could run with this, assuming he is able to be serious. If it's a joke or screwing with your game, I go back to my first answer, tell him to stop metagaming.
Divine Intervention is one of those things that, somewhat understandably, players often overestimate the potential of. Sort of like the Wish spell... the ability doesn't have a built-in restriction on what it could potentially do.
If a DM decides that Divine Intervention can successfully generate a modern-day Tank and also grant the character the knowledge of how to operate it, then sure, it can. But I think even a generous DM needs to approach this in a way that doesn't completely trivialize the game. Sure, that's fun in the moment for a sort of silly instance of chaos, but it quickly just becomes something dumb that ruins the tone and development of the game.
The Divine Intervention description encourages DM's to try and manifest the Divine Intervention in the form of a Cleric Spell. I would instead use it to cast Summon Celestial as a concentration-free spell... that way a Large Celestial can appear and hey, guess what, it takes the form of a big goofy tank with googly eyes (or however you want it to look). Now there's a tank on the board, you have a stat block you can easily reference when deciding what it can or can't do, and you have a built-in duration that it persists so the player doesn't just have a tank with them after that point.
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Other than 'The DM chooses the nature of the intervention' and the implications of 'In times of great need'. Unlike Wish the DM isn't actively encouraged to hose the PCs, but they should generate an effect that's in line with the need.
Look, the player doesn't know how to play D&D. That's fine! We were all new once.
It is a role-playing game. The character does not know what the player knows. They've never seen a tank. They probably have never seen a bomb. The *player* knows what those things are, but the *character* does not.
If you want, it might be fun to have the character be a sort of inventor, who tries to come up with something like a tank, but look at medieval versions of tanks and go from there. Maybe an armored cart?
Even the a world famous genius working with cannon still designed something that was too heavy to move:
Leonardo's fighting vehicle - Wikipedia
Mmm... BBEG want a Death Star
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
Another thing with this player is that I've played other campaigns with them and they are a consistent problem player. They have done. Questionable things... and known to be sometimes a bit of a murder hobo so i'm really hesitant with the fact of them having a tank