I hope one of you has experience with this and can give me some advise.
I have a new player that already has some experience with D&D that recently joined my long running campaign. They joined on session 48 and we play every week, so it's been going on for quite a while. The other players and I are already an established friend group of 6 (5 of which are the other players) while this new player only really has a connection with me and one other player in the group.
They joined as a Warlock with a custom subclass. They have told me that, after playing for 12 sessions with us now, they have run into quite some issues with their motivation for the game. They feel like they aren't as much part of the group because the rest was already friends and playing with one another for a while before they joined. They are also struggling with caring for anything that is happening as many of the plot hooks and quests that the party is doing / is planning to do were started or put on a to do list before the new player joined. This makes them feel like they are just tagging along with this other group as that group is doing the things they want to do.
My question is:
How do I make the player feel included in the party/group as well as, how do I motivate them to care about the campaign world and the quests they are going on without making it something that is then only targeted towards the new player.
I often find that when there are 'backstory quests' to do that the rest of the party feels less motivated because that is 'that player's story'. This is even harder with the new player as they have a hard time excusing that they stick with the party because they are long time friends or that they should help the other party member out because they helped them before with one of their quests.
I hope you all have some advise. I've spoken with the new player about this already but they also don't know how to concretely involve them in the game.
Better than having "backstory quests" is just weaving backstory stuff into the quests you're doing anyway. You have various ally/enemy/organization NPC slots to fill, use backstory to fill them. Turns out the thing the party was doing anyway just happens to be extremely relevant to a character's story. I know the opportunity has already passed, but that's generally a great way to introduce a new character and give them motivation to team up with the party in the first place.
It's a little wild that you've gone through 12 sessions and still have a list of stuff that was planned to do before they joined. Exactly how far ahead have you prepared and how much of it is written in stone?
I think it’s great that you’re trying to help them feel welcome, but it seems like at least part of this is on them. Are they making an effort to integrate themselves into the party? Motivation, in general, needs to come from them, not an outside force. You’re the DM, it’s your job to give them an opportunity, but there’s a point where they need to make the most of that opportunity.
Ive been the new player, and I’m very introverted. But I still find a way to make myself part of the group. It seems like, after 12 sessions, they should have found a hook or two they can grab ahold of and pull themselves in.
So I guess my advice would be to point those out. Like, I’ve give you x y and z, which of those do you want to persue? Talk to the other players about doing it.
As far as players not being motivated in other players backstory quests. One is to tell them OoC, they are being selfish. Everyone will get a turn, they need to show up for others the way they’d want others to show up for them.
I've had a lot of players drop out and new players join in over the course of my current long running campaign. You're already doing the first thing I'd advise, which is talking to them. That, however, doesn't seem to have helped much so perhaps ask them to take specific notes about the moments when they feel the most left out - see if there's a pattern - also try to keep an eye out for other players unintentionally talking over the new person - it can be hard to put yourself forward as the new person
I always write a general summary of the events so far when someone new joins my campaign - if needed you can include details on not just the primary events but also important NPCs and special party moments or anything you feel's relevant - I'd start with just a basic summary of the events so they know what's going on (give a bit more detail about the more recent stuff as that would be more relevant)
In game, they may need a little help to get involved so I like to consistently ask all my players what are they doing in any given situation - I try to avoid asking just the new person so no one complains about favouritism and so as not to embarrass that person.
Does the new player's PC fill some kind of niche in your group - face? Long-range sniper? Unique knowledge or ... - if so try to create a situation(s) where they'll be [the most] useful.
You could also try talking to the other player's and just letting them know that this person is struggling and ask them to a little bit more to try and make them feel included.
However, as was previously said, this is a two-way street. The player has to be doing their best to get involved as well.
I would suggest feeding a bit of their backstory in, maybe using a figure in their background as a source of information. Look for ways to tie their backstory in to a step the existing party takes, showing that this player was destined to be part of the group. It might require some creativity or a minor reworking of an upcoming contact, but by having this player's story, or part of it, link directly to the running story, it should provide some sense of belonging.
Another idea that might work would be to talk to one or more of the existing players to see if that PC can befriend or start seeking a bond with the new player. This would be a bit more organic, with a friendly, amiable type looking for form a friendship with someone new. It wouldn't be directly linking the newcomer to the running tale, but integrating them into the pre-existing group.
If the group is a friendly one, open to new folks and what not (players, NOT characters) your integration will go a lot smoother, as it will end up being all 6 folks working to settle the newcomer in and make them feel welcome and as though they truly belong.
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Talk to your Players.Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
We have done 61 sessions so far. The quests they had open when the new player joined included resurrecting an NPC with a Raise dead spell that they have been Gentle Reposing since session 25 or so, recapturing the starting village that was taken over by enemies at the start of the campaign, going on an expedition that one of the player's wanted to do since the start of the campaign but had recently been offered to be sponsored by an allied NPC, venturing into an unexplored region of the continent to find the mentor of one of the players and investigate rumors of a hidden city that another player had written in their backstory and go on a short quest to kill a creature that holds an important component for one of the players to complete a magical item of theirs.
During the campaign I have dropped quite a few plot hooks that were then added to the party's to do list. I have a loose idea of any of these quests/adventures and go deeper into it whenever the party decides to actually go and follow up on one of them.
It is up to the players in what order they wish to complete any of these quests if they want to do it at all.
They do try to involve themselves with the party, but it is difficult for them as the rest of the party is much more vocal during most of the roleplaying parts. There are so many other players and they feel separated from them that they don't feel like they should establish themselves in conversation. Even though that is something that I have talked with them about and think that it would help them feel part of the group if they did make their voice heard during the player's roleplaying amongst themselves.
They do try to involve themselves with the party, but it is difficult for them as the rest of the party is much more vocal during most of the roleplaying parts. There are so many other players and they feel separated from them that they don't feel like they should establish themselves in conversation. Even though that is something that I have talked with them about and think that it would help them feel part of the group if they did make their voice heard during the player's roleplaying amongst themselves.
In this case, to me, this goes beyond D&D and is really an issue with personality and the new person being shy — which I can certainly relate to.
Seems to me like there two ways to handle it. Speak with the other players, and ask them to try and make an effort to actively include the new person. Or tell the new person something like “Look, you just need to get over this and speak up. No one else can do that for you.” Maybe phrase it more nicely. But if this is a problem in D&D, I’ll bet this is not a new phenomenon for them, maybe they can think of this, low stakes, just playing a game, as practice for the wider world.
Or I suppose, you could try both. Ask the others to make an effort, and tell this person they need to do their own work and not wait for the world to come to them.
I always tie the backstory/motivation of a new player directly into the campaign so that the existing players *want* to interact with them, and vice versa, and doing so advances the plot. Seems to work well.
Can always try directing the spotlight by calling on players in particular.
I also run a 6 player game and I find that to be imperitive to make sure that my quieter players get their moments in the spotlight, because, especially online, it's very easy for players to start talking over each other.
"You enter the room, and the earthy scent of moss and decay is prevalent. You see a ritualistic shrine with a dark gods symbol carved roughly into it, and dried blood stains the dais. (Character), what do you do?"
They may do nothing, and that's fine, but at least you gave them the opportunity to have *their* moment. If you're providing these moments, and they choose not to take them, but continue to complain about being left out, then it's pretty easy to identify that the player just isn't feeling comfortable in the group, which happens when someone joins a group of friends who have played for a long time.
Even if the group doesn't perceive them as an outsider, if they struggle with social connections or have low self-esteem it's easy for them to assume that they're an outsider, and then *make* themselves an outsider because of that mindset.
I have played the new character in an ongoing campaign, and I felt a lot like I was just tagging along.
Personally, I feel like if I were to integrate a new person into the game, then I would run a short solo adventure which gives them a crash course in the campaign, gets them involved in the story line, and ends with them meeting the main party. This way, they have at least a passing knowledge of what their character is doing, what the campaign involves, and so can roleplay their way into the party. I kind of joined in with a little backstory given but was found sat in a porch on the other side of a portal, and spent most of the first session asking "would my character know this?", "would my character have seen this before?", and so on. My motives for joining i nwere that there was an old legend foretelling the arrival of the party, and my character (who loves stories) knew it, so he opted to help them. it seemed good at the time, but a little light is showing through it now we've gotten going!
An important thing to do is keep up communication; ask the player what backstory they have for them, and try to integrate it. Ask them what their PC cares about, and try to motivate them. Ask them what reasons they have to stay with the party - might be they hadn't thought about it, so they might not have tried too hard to build those bonds.
The biggest thing is not to let them juct be along for the ride - put things in which need to involve them, get their backstory involved. coming into a long running game, I'd expect a fairly thought out backstory for them. If they have only given you the bare bones of one, build it up with them! EG if they said "I was an assassin for a crime syndicate but the syndicate was raided and my rich brother bailed me out, and set me on the straight and narrow", then I as the DM would go back with a choice of crime syndicates (written for them to pick from), and professions for the brother (again, made for them) and so on until we have a good web of crime syndicated, backstabes, suspected backstabs, rich brothers in high places, and so on. Then I would find a way to link all of that into the story for the campaign, EG killing off the brother and making the BBEG seem responsible, so they now have a motive.
So far as table time, make sure to acknowledge that they don't know. After some roleplay that they sit back from, summarise it for them from their perspective - have them glean knowledge from it, EG "You heard the name Molotov mentioned before, it seems from this conversation that he is a key part of the cult that killed your brother", so that they aren't sat there for ages then asking later "so who's Molotov?".
Dear Dungeon Masters,
I hope one of you has experience with this and can give me some advise.
I have a new player that already has some experience with D&D that recently joined my long running campaign. They joined on session 48 and we play every week, so it's been going on for quite a while. The other players and I are already an established friend group of 6 (5 of which are the other players) while this new player only really has a connection with me and one other player in the group.
They joined as a Warlock with a custom subclass. They have told me that, after playing for 12 sessions with us now, they have run into quite some issues with their motivation for the game. They feel like they aren't as much part of the group because the rest was already friends and playing with one another for a while before they joined. They are also struggling with caring for anything that is happening as many of the plot hooks and quests that the party is doing / is planning to do were started or put on a to do list before the new player joined. This makes them feel like they are just tagging along with this other group as that group is doing the things they want to do.
My question is:
How do I make the player feel included in the party/group as well as, how do I motivate them to care about the campaign world and the quests they are going on without making it something that is then only targeted towards the new player.
I often find that when there are 'backstory quests' to do that the rest of the party feels less motivated because that is 'that player's story'. This is even harder with the new player as they have a hard time excusing that they stick with the party because they are long time friends or that they should help the other party member out because they helped them before with one of their quests.
I hope you all have some advise. I've spoken with the new player about this already but they also don't know how to concretely involve them in the game.
Im open to any suggestions.
Thanks in advance!
Better than having "backstory quests" is just weaving backstory stuff into the quests you're doing anyway. You have various ally/enemy/organization NPC slots to fill, use backstory to fill them. Turns out the thing the party was doing anyway just happens to be extremely relevant to a character's story. I know the opportunity has already passed, but that's generally a great way to introduce a new character and give them motivation to team up with the party in the first place.
It's a little wild that you've gone through 12 sessions and still have a list of stuff that was planned to do before they joined. Exactly how far ahead have you prepared and how much of it is written in stone?
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I think it’s great that you’re trying to help them feel welcome, but it seems like at least part of this is on them. Are they making an effort to integrate themselves into the party? Motivation, in general, needs to come from them, not an outside force. You’re the DM, it’s your job to give them an opportunity, but there’s a point where they need to make the most of that opportunity.
Ive been the new player, and I’m very introverted. But I still find a way to make myself part of the group. It seems like, after 12 sessions, they should have found a hook or two they can grab ahold of and pull themselves in.
So I guess my advice would be to point those out. Like, I’ve give you x y and z, which of those do you want to persue? Talk to the other players about doing it.
As far as players not being motivated in other players backstory quests. One is to tell them OoC, they are being selfish. Everyone will get a turn, they need to show up for others the way they’d want others to show up for them.
I've had a lot of players drop out and new players join in over the course of my current long running campaign. You're already doing the first thing I'd advise, which is talking to them. That, however, doesn't seem to have helped much so perhaps ask them to take specific notes about the moments when they feel the most left out - see if there's a pattern - also try to keep an eye out for other players unintentionally talking over the new person - it can be hard to put yourself forward as the new person
I always write a general summary of the events so far when someone new joins my campaign - if needed you can include details on not just the primary events but also important NPCs and special party moments or anything you feel's relevant - I'd start with just a basic summary of the events so they know what's going on (give a bit more detail about the more recent stuff as that would be more relevant)
In game, they may need a little help to get involved so I like to consistently ask all my players what are they doing in any given situation - I try to avoid asking just the new person so no one complains about favouritism and so as not to embarrass that person.
Does the new player's PC fill some kind of niche in your group - face? Long-range sniper? Unique knowledge or ... - if so try to create a situation(s) where they'll be [the most] useful.
You could also try talking to the other player's and just letting them know that this person is struggling and ask them to a little bit more to try and make them feel included.
However, as was previously said, this is a two-way street. The player has to be doing their best to get involved as well.
I hope some of this helps. Good luck.
I would suggest feeding a bit of their backstory in, maybe using a figure in their background as a source of information. Look for ways to tie their backstory in to a step the existing party takes, showing that this player was destined to be part of the group. It might require some creativity or a minor reworking of an upcoming contact, but by having this player's story, or part of it, link directly to the running story, it should provide some sense of belonging.
Another idea that might work would be to talk to one or more of the existing players to see if that PC can befriend or start seeking a bond with the new player. This would be a bit more organic, with a friendly, amiable type looking for form a friendship with someone new. It wouldn't be directly linking the newcomer to the running tale, but integrating them into the pre-existing group.
If the group is a friendly one, open to new folks and what not (players, NOT characters) your integration will go a lot smoother, as it will end up being all 6 folks working to settle the newcomer in and make them feel welcome and as though they truly belong.
Talk to your Players. Talk to your DM. If more people used this advice, there would be 24.74% fewer threads on Tactics, Rules and DM discussions.
We have done 61 sessions so far. The quests they had open when the new player joined included resurrecting an NPC with a Raise dead spell that they have been Gentle Reposing since session 25 or so, recapturing the starting village that was taken over by enemies at the start of the campaign, going on an expedition that one of the player's wanted to do since the start of the campaign but had recently been offered to be sponsored by an allied NPC, venturing into an unexplored region of the continent to find the mentor of one of the players and investigate rumors of a hidden city that another player had written in their backstory and go on a short quest to kill a creature that holds an important component for one of the players to complete a magical item of theirs.
During the campaign I have dropped quite a few plot hooks that were then added to the party's to do list. I have a loose idea of any of these quests/adventures and go deeper into it whenever the party decides to actually go and follow up on one of them.
It is up to the players in what order they wish to complete any of these quests if they want to do it at all.
They do try to involve themselves with the party, but it is difficult for them as the rest of the party is much more vocal during most of the roleplaying parts. There are so many other players and they feel separated from them that they don't feel like they should establish themselves in conversation. Even though that is something that I have talked with them about and think that it would help them feel part of the group if they did make their voice heard during the player's roleplaying amongst themselves.
In this case, to me, this goes beyond D&D and is really an issue with personality and the new person being shy — which I can certainly relate to.
Seems to me like there two ways to handle it. Speak with the other players, and ask them to try and make an effort to actively include the new person.
Or tell the new person something like “Look, you just need to get over this and speak up. No one else can do that for you.” Maybe phrase it more nicely. But if this is a problem in D&D, I’ll bet this is not a new phenomenon for them, maybe they can think of this, low stakes, just playing a game, as practice for the wider world.
Or I suppose, you could try both. Ask the others to make an effort, and tell this person they need to do their own work and not wait for the world to come to them.
I always tie the backstory/motivation of a new player directly into the campaign so that the existing players *want* to interact with them, and vice versa, and doing so advances the plot. Seems to work well.
Can always try directing the spotlight by calling on players in particular.
I also run a 6 player game and I find that to be imperitive to make sure that my quieter players get their moments in the spotlight, because, especially online, it's very easy for players to start talking over each other.
"You enter the room, and the earthy scent of moss and decay is prevalent. You see a ritualistic shrine with a dark gods symbol carved roughly into it, and dried blood stains the dais. (Character), what do you do?"
They may do nothing, and that's fine, but at least you gave them the opportunity to have *their* moment. If you're providing these moments, and they choose not to take them, but continue to complain about being left out, then it's pretty easy to identify that the player just isn't feeling comfortable in the group, which happens when someone joins a group of friends who have played for a long time.
Even if the group doesn't perceive them as an outsider, if they struggle with social connections or have low self-esteem it's easy for them to assume that they're an outsider, and then *make* themselves an outsider because of that mindset.
I have played the new character in an ongoing campaign, and I felt a lot like I was just tagging along.
Personally, I feel like if I were to integrate a new person into the game, then I would run a short solo adventure which gives them a crash course in the campaign, gets them involved in the story line, and ends with them meeting the main party. This way, they have at least a passing knowledge of what their character is doing, what the campaign involves, and so can roleplay their way into the party. I kind of joined in with a little backstory given but was found sat in a porch on the other side of a portal, and spent most of the first session asking "would my character know this?", "would my character have seen this before?", and so on. My motives for joining i nwere that there was an old legend foretelling the arrival of the party, and my character (who loves stories) knew it, so he opted to help them. it seemed good at the time, but a little light is showing through it now we've gotten going!
An important thing to do is keep up communication; ask the player what backstory they have for them, and try to integrate it. Ask them what their PC cares about, and try to motivate them. Ask them what reasons they have to stay with the party - might be they hadn't thought about it, so they might not have tried too hard to build those bonds.
The biggest thing is not to let them juct be along for the ride - put things in which need to involve them, get their backstory involved. coming into a long running game, I'd expect a fairly thought out backstory for them. If they have only given you the bare bones of one, build it up with them! EG if they said "I was an assassin for a crime syndicate but the syndicate was raided and my rich brother bailed me out, and set me on the straight and narrow", then I as the DM would go back with a choice of crime syndicates (written for them to pick from), and professions for the brother (again, made for them) and so on until we have a good web of crime syndicated, backstabes, suspected backstabs, rich brothers in high places, and so on. Then I would find a way to link all of that into the story for the campaign, EG killing off the brother and making the BBEG seem responsible, so they now have a motive.
So far as table time, make sure to acknowledge that they don't know. After some roleplay that they sit back from, summarise it for them from their perspective - have them glean knowledge from it, EG "You heard the name Molotov mentioned before, it seems from this conversation that he is a key part of the cult that killed your brother", so that they aren't sat there for ages then asking later "so who's Molotov?".
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