I've been a DM for roughly 7 years who has mostly used prewritten modules for my campaigns (Curse of Strahd, Descent into Avernus, Tomb Of horrors and Tyranny/rise of Tiamat to name a few. After all this time I'm finally digging my teeth into making my own campaign setting. I have mostly everything finalized(Maps, NPCS, Factions, Quests, ect) but I'm having some trouble with some core game mechanics that i will be dealing with that I'd like some advice on. (Especially you old DM's who experienced brutality of 1st and 2nd edition)
Instead of giving you readers a droned out and long paragraph regarding the setting and story of my campaign setting, I'll list the crucial information in bulleted form.
The entire campaign takes place in a large prison, each section of the prison houses different Districts that have their own ecosystem best suited to fitting their inhabitants (Desert Biomes, Feywild, Stone, Rivers, Underground)
The guards of the prison are heavily outnumbered and will not take action against prisoners unless they attempt to escape the prison or use magic for fear of their lives.
The guards are specialized in capturing and subduing magic users, which they often kidnap and bring to the inner prison for mysterious reasons.
Without the presence of the guards, the prisoners govern the districts within the prison themselves. Several factions reside in each district, each with their own alignments, Goals and enemies.
Due to an order made by the outside kings, every criminal no matter the crime are sent to this prison, causing massive overpopulation issues.
Different organizations own and operate inside their own territories of the prison
6 Separate districts, each with their own laws, Culture and majority races.
The entirety of the campaign takes place in this one location,
Here is where the players come in
Players are dropped into the city with only a set of clothes. No starting equipment, No spell components, no items and no gold
After the first level, players must seek out NPCs adept in their respective class in order to train them in the skills that they receive in that new level. (they must reach the milestone or XP point in order to be trained)
Players must work and earn gold through jobs and quests to earn their equipment and items that they would normally start with.
Magic items are forbidden and expensive. Guards will confiscate any found and other inmates will attempt to steal it for themselves.
Magic Users must seek out item components needed for their spells which will be exceedingly rare, Grimoires and other focuses are equally rare. They also must be careful in not being discovered as a magic users.
Level ups will be slower than normal, with the intent to keep the campaign at a low power level for a longer length of time.
Players will be discouraged to use their magic in broad daylight to prevent alerting the guards.
Here's where i need some help.
I would like to know if anybody has run a game with a setting that's gritty realism or low magic or just something similar to my setting. What sort of problems did you run into? What are some things you wish you did differently?
What are some ideas on how you would reward players besides experience points? Would it be just Gold? Favor with NPCs? Minor Feats? Any suggestions would be helpful!
Do you see potential problems with players interacting with this sort of setting? I understand that leveling up is a large amount of fun that players have, but i also do not want the players to grow too strong too fast for them to start steamrolling through the campaign that is meant to be high danger and full of potential consequence. Would you have a different way of going about this?
Any other advice would be nice, thank you so much for reading so much of my ramblings. I look forward to your replies and I am happy to answer any questions that you may have for me.
The first impression that playing a monk or other unarmed attack PC will be easiest in this campaign.
If you aren't allowing casting focus then you're unlikely to have a PC spellcaster that requires spell components (maybe a bard or sorcerer)?
Where would a cleric of warlock get their power from? Would they have to find an NPC adept that follows their same higher being?
Some players will be determined to break out of the prison regardless.
I guess this mostly comes down to you knowing your players and whether they would be happy with the constraints you are placing on their PCs development.
It looks like Reputation will be a crucial part of the campaign - allowing the PCs to gain work from bigger factions who have heard of their abilities.
The best advice may be the most unhelpful I'm sorry, and that is to use a different system. It sounds like Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics would be right up your alley in terms of low magic and high lethality.
If you want to go 5e the hardest thing is going to be player buy in. You are putting a lot of restrictions on spellcasters so anyone choosing a non-martial class needs to be completely down with not being able to do, well, anything most of the time. This can leave you with a group full of non-casters in which case the magic restrictions wont be meaningful because they wont affect them anyway. It may be better to have magic people as NPCs and task the PCs with obtaining spell components etc for them. That way the PCs could in effect 'buy' spells and the like.
As to level ups, totally fine to level people slowly. Just use milestone and tell them what the milestones are in advance. Like, you get to level 2 when you escape from area x. You get to level 3 when you secure a teacher to teach you your subclass. You get to level four when you have resolved the conflict between The Eight and The Temple of Weak Flesh. That kind of thing. The added benefit of this is that it gives the players clear direction. They can do whatever they want, but if they want to go up a level they need to achieve x. How they achieve x (and how long it takes) is completely up to them.
Personally I enjoy starting with no gear. It makes loot fun and meaningful right off the bat. The setting sounds like it could be a lot of fun for the right group.
Oh, and beware of the player who decides to play a monk. They may sidestep most of your restrictions just by their choice of class.
Yup, Monk definitely seems to be strong in this setting, i appreciate the thoughts on that.
As far as magic users, the players will have access to organizations that would allow them to get in contact with NPCS (Such as a guild of exiled paladins or a secret order of warlocks)
I'm banking on the idea that while magic may not be used at any given time, players will have access to a system in which they would be able to cast spells in secrecy. I've talked to a majority of my players and told them how magic would work, how they can get caught and some pathways to obtaining magic.
As far as breaking out of the prison, that is one of the paths that players can take and the whole campaign can revolve around that if the players chose to go that route.
My immediate thought is to send you to look at the Blades in the Dark system and think about the way that runs. I've thought quite frequently about bringing mechanics and ideas from other systems.
Reputation & Heat So, in this setting you've described I'd out and out steal the Payoff and Heat mechanics from Blades in the Dark and adapt them into D&D. So, Payoff is both Reputation and Coin (not silver, copper, gold etc, just the nebulous term coin). Rep is pretty obvious. If no one would have noticed the quest completed then they don't gain rep positive or negative with any group. If it is noticed, then the question is by whom. Does the increased rep with the quest giver open doors to new things? (Passage through territory, training, illicit black market trades?). I love the way coin in BitD is nebulous and to adapt it into something like this I think it makes a lot of sense. The inmates might have developed their own currency system, so you aren't getting gold. Maybe instead it's coin or notes that have a universally agreed value but don't have inherent value like lumps of gold, silver, copper, etc.
Then there's heat. The heat system in BitD is really useful here. If there are rival groups within the prison environment doing a job for one group might naturally bring the ire of another group. Basically after each job I'd make a d10 roll and that's the heat level from the group that they've just robbed/assaulted etc. For every 10 points of heat, then instead of the BitD wanted levels, I'd make it revenge or bounty levels.
So, 1-10 heat = 1 Revenge level - The party are little more than a pesky threat...the faction won't take action beyond immediate (kicking out of territory etc). 11-20 heat = 2 Revenge Level - The party are now on the radar of the faction. Players could expect to be ganged up on and attacked as a 'warning'. 21-30 heat = 3 Revenge Level - The party are now consider troublesome. The faction now reward faction members should the party members be brought in or 'taught a lesson' 31-40 heat = 4 Revenge Level - The party are now considered a real threat. The faction wants the players dead or incapacitated. 40+ heat = 5 Revenge Level - The entire faction's number one priority is the elimination of the players. No ifs, no buts.
Magic Use Oxventure used an interesting prison setup where runes directed magic use away from the players and into a system of pipes and such. I loved the idea of somewhere that spellcasters just couldn't cast. However, I can only see that working short-term. So, maybe I'd have the players in your scenario have some kind of enchanted shackle that actively punishes or makes obvious magic use. I'd see this as kind of a thick metal band welded to the wrist perhaps it charges by absorbing half of the power of a spell (so a spell's damage or duration would be halved in play). The band has four stages maybe signified by a gem, or sigil that activates with each new stage.
Stage 1 - For the first 10 castings - No effects other than a sigil glowing brightly enough to light up five feet radius. Stage 2 - Spell damage/duration only 75% normal for the next 25 castings - A second sigil glows, lighting 10ft radius. Each spell cast causes 1d6 damage to the caster. Stage 3 - Spell damage/duration only 50% normal for the next 25 castings - A third sigil glows, lighting a 15ft radius. Each spell cast causes 1d10 damage to the caster. Stage 4 - Spell damage/duration is only 25% normal for any future castings - A fourth sigil glows, lighting a 20ft radius. Each spell cast causes 1d20 damage to the caster.
This shackle would allow for guards and NPCs to clearly see when someone has utilised magic, but at early stages maybe easily hidden. It also disincentives using magic frivolously. You could even work in a way that the guards could be alerted at a particular stage.
Non-magic users This is the biggest issue I see with your description. Why would your players choose a magic user class? I think you need some kind of consequence for martial/non magic classes. So, perhaps a similar shackle could register attacks or damage dealt? Rangers, Fighters, Rogues, and Monks all scream out the obvious choices to just outright sidestep your setting and make the setting no problem. Tabaxi Barbarians for example could throw out enormous damage at even relatively low levels due to natural weapons. Likewise a Dragonborn breath weapon. Also, is Ki considered magic? I might rule use of Ki is classed as magic, others might not given your setting.
Given all of this, I would limit the races and classes usable by PCs. I know that many people hate this, but especially in homebrew worlds it can make things much more manageable.
If I was going for consequences for non magic users I'd structure the shackle in the following way:
Stage 1 - For the first 25 points of damage dealt - No effects other than a sigil glowing brightly enough to light up five feet radius. Stage 2 - Next 50 points of damage dealt, to hit rolls are -1 - A second sigil glows, lighting 10ft radius. Each attack causes 1d6 damage to the caster. Stage 3 - Next 50 points of damage dealt, to hit rolls are -2 - A third sigil glows, lighting a 15ft radius. Each attack causes 1d10 damage to the caster. Stage 4 - Next 75 points of damage dealt, to hit rolls are -3 - A fourth sigil glows, lighting a 20ft radius. Each attack causes 1d20 damage to the caster.
Cludgy and just off the top of my head, but a suggestion that keeps the game harsh and difficult. Maybe RPd that the shackle tightens magically affecting aim? Also provides a clear balance to allow a freer choice of classes for players.
Levels and XP I think obviously your setting needs to be milestoned. If it was me, I'd think about creating your own structure. How many missions to level up? Given you want difficulty, I'd be thinking along these kind of lines:
Level 2 = 5 Missions Level 3 = 5 more missions = 10 Missions Total Level 4 = 10 more missions = 20 Missions Total Level 5 = 10 more missions = 30 Missions Total Level 6 = 15 more missions = 45 Missions Total Level 7 = 15 more missions = 60 Missions Total Level 8 = 20 more missions = 80 Missions Total Level 9 = 20 more missions = 100 Missions Total Level 10 = 25 more missions = 125 Missions Total
Depending on length of session, you could conceivably have players at level 1 for the first five sessions. The problem is that as a player it can be real frustrating to be stuck at levels for soooo long. Personally, I'd use common sense to milestone and go 'yeah feels like a good time to level now'. That's just me though.
First thought was Escape From New York. Awesome movie.
a) someone said monks would be powerful. Not necessarily. You can improvise weapons fairly easily; e.g. newspaper knives, soap in a sock. I'd suggest the characters being able to craft simple melee weapons instead of relying on "improvised weapon" attacks. Ranged characters would be at a disadvantage though, unless they wanna use a sling or something.
Do you see potential problems with players interacting with this sort of setting?
Just be really upfront with all of those bullet points. You're effectively cutting off access to most class features and slowing level progression, so for a large chunk of the game the only character choices that will matter are skill proficiencies and roleplaying aspects. You may have issues with bards and rogues and just generally charisma-based classes having much more impact on what I assume will be play focused on social challenges. You may also want to embrace the idea of allowing skills based on alternate ability scores so that, for example a fighter might have decent chance at intimidating someone with strength.
I guess this mostly comes down to you knowing your players and whether they would be happy with the constraints you are placing on their PCs development.
I wanted to echo this, these restrictions could be fine or horrible depending on your players and how you communicate and enforce these constraints. You’re severely limiting spellcaster classes, especially since it sounds like class features will also be constrained and not just spells. Meanwhile martial classes will be able to use their entire kits with impunity.
Even if you force them to learn class features from NPCs, it sounds like a fighter will be fine using weapons anytime but a wizard will immediately be targeted for using a cantrip. So you’re incentivizing them to use weapons over magic, which means ability scores are also a conundrum. Spellcasters will need to choose to be either less effective using their spells to be able to use weapons more, or be less generally capable but still under a lot of risk when using magic and class features.
Could be interesting if your players are ok with playing a gang of barbarians, monks, rogues, etc. but if one person wants to play a sorcerer or warlock they’re going to have a rough time. One positive is that it could be a good situation to make feats more impactful, like poisoner for example. A session zero where you talk through all of this will be crucial.
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Howdy there!
I've been a DM for roughly 7 years who has mostly used prewritten modules for my campaigns (Curse of Strahd, Descent into Avernus, Tomb Of horrors and Tyranny/rise of Tiamat to name a few. After all this time I'm finally digging my teeth into making my own campaign setting. I have mostly everything finalized(Maps, NPCS, Factions, Quests, ect) but I'm having some trouble with some core game mechanics that i will be dealing with that I'd like some advice on. (Especially you old DM's who experienced brutality of 1st and 2nd edition)
Instead of giving you readers a droned out and long paragraph regarding the setting and story of my campaign setting, I'll list the crucial information in bulleted form.
Here is where the players come in
Here's where i need some help.
I would like to know if anybody has run a game with a setting that's gritty realism or low magic or just something similar to my setting. What sort of problems did you run into? What are some things you wish you did differently?
What are some ideas on how you would reward players besides experience points? Would it be just Gold? Favor with NPCs? Minor Feats? Any suggestions would be helpful!
Do you see potential problems with players interacting with this sort of setting? I understand that leveling up is a large amount of fun that players have, but i also do not want the players to grow too strong too fast for them to start steamrolling through the campaign that is meant to be high danger and full of potential consequence. Would you have a different way of going about this?
Any other advice would be nice, thank you so much for reading so much of my ramblings. I look forward to your replies and I am happy to answer any questions that you may have for me.
Cheers!
The first impression that playing a monk or other unarmed attack PC will be easiest in this campaign.
If you aren't allowing casting focus then you're unlikely to have a PC spellcaster that requires spell components (maybe a bard or sorcerer)?
Where would a cleric of warlock get their power from? Would they have to find an NPC adept that follows their same higher being?
Some players will be determined to break out of the prison regardless.
I guess this mostly comes down to you knowing your players and whether they would be happy with the constraints you are placing on their PCs development.
It looks like Reputation will be a crucial part of the campaign - allowing the PCs to gain work from bigger factions who have heard of their abilities.
The best advice may be the most unhelpful I'm sorry, and that is to use a different system. It sounds like Goodman Games' Dungeon Crawl Classics would be right up your alley in terms of low magic and high lethality.
If you want to go 5e the hardest thing is going to be player buy in. You are putting a lot of restrictions on spellcasters so anyone choosing a non-martial class needs to be completely down with not being able to do, well, anything most of the time. This can leave you with a group full of non-casters in which case the magic restrictions wont be meaningful because they wont affect them anyway. It may be better to have magic people as NPCs and task the PCs with obtaining spell components etc for them. That way the PCs could in effect 'buy' spells and the like.
As to level ups, totally fine to level people slowly. Just use milestone and tell them what the milestones are in advance. Like, you get to level 2 when you escape from area x. You get to level 3 when you secure a teacher to teach you your subclass. You get to level four when you have resolved the conflict between The Eight and The Temple of Weak Flesh. That kind of thing. The added benefit of this is that it gives the players clear direction. They can do whatever they want, but if they want to go up a level they need to achieve x. How they achieve x (and how long it takes) is completely up to them.
Personally I enjoy starting with no gear. It makes loot fun and meaningful right off the bat. The setting sounds like it could be a lot of fun for the right group.
Oh, and beware of the player who decides to play a monk. They may sidestep most of your restrictions just by their choice of class.
Really appreciate your advice.
Yup, Monk definitely seems to be strong in this setting, i appreciate the thoughts on that.
As far as magic users, the players will have access to organizations that would allow them to get in contact with NPCS (Such as a guild of exiled paladins or a secret order of warlocks)
I'm banking on the idea that while magic may not be used at any given time, players will have access to a system in which they would be able to cast spells in secrecy. I've talked to a majority of my players and told them how magic would work, how they can get caught and some pathways to obtaining magic.
As far as breaking out of the prison, that is one of the paths that players can take and the whole campaign can revolve around that if the players chose to go that route.
Again, really appreciate your thoughts!
My immediate thought is to send you to look at the Blades in the Dark system and think about the way that runs. I've thought quite frequently about bringing mechanics and ideas from other systems.
Reputation & Heat
So, in this setting you've described I'd out and out steal the Payoff and Heat mechanics from Blades in the Dark and adapt them into D&D. So, Payoff is both Reputation and Coin (not silver, copper, gold etc, just the nebulous term coin). Rep is pretty obvious. If no one would have noticed the quest completed then they don't gain rep positive or negative with any group. If it is noticed, then the question is by whom. Does the increased rep with the quest giver open doors to new things? (Passage through territory, training, illicit black market trades?). I love the way coin in BitD is nebulous and to adapt it into something like this I think it makes a lot of sense. The inmates might have developed their own currency system, so you aren't getting gold. Maybe instead it's coin or notes that have a universally agreed value but don't have inherent value like lumps of gold, silver, copper, etc.
Then there's heat. The heat system in BitD is really useful here. If there are rival groups within the prison environment doing a job for one group might naturally bring the ire of another group. Basically after each job I'd make a d10 roll and that's the heat level from the group that they've just robbed/assaulted etc. For every 10 points of heat, then instead of the BitD wanted levels, I'd make it revenge or bounty levels.
So,
1-10 heat = 1 Revenge level - The party are little more than a pesky threat...the faction won't take action beyond immediate (kicking out of territory etc).
11-20 heat = 2 Revenge Level - The party are now on the radar of the faction. Players could expect to be ganged up on and attacked as a 'warning'.
21-30 heat = 3 Revenge Level - The party are now consider troublesome. The faction now reward faction members should the party members be brought in or 'taught a lesson'
31-40 heat = 4 Revenge Level - The party are now considered a real threat. The faction wants the players dead or incapacitated.
40+ heat = 5 Revenge Level - The entire faction's number one priority is the elimination of the players. No ifs, no buts.
Magic Use
Oxventure used an interesting prison setup where runes directed magic use away from the players and into a system of pipes and such. I loved the idea of somewhere that spellcasters just couldn't cast. However, I can only see that working short-term. So, maybe I'd have the players in your scenario have some kind of enchanted shackle that actively punishes or makes obvious magic use. I'd see this as kind of a thick metal band welded to the wrist perhaps it charges by absorbing half of the power of a spell (so a spell's damage or duration would be halved in play). The band has four stages maybe signified by a gem, or sigil that activates with each new stage.
Stage 1 - For the first 10 castings - No effects other than a sigil glowing brightly enough to light up five feet radius.
Stage 2 - Spell damage/duration only 75% normal for the next 25 castings - A second sigil glows, lighting 10ft radius. Each spell cast causes 1d6 damage to the caster.
Stage 3 - Spell damage/duration only 50% normal for the next 25 castings - A third sigil glows, lighting a 15ft radius. Each spell cast causes 1d10 damage to the caster.
Stage 4 - Spell damage/duration is only 25% normal for any future castings - A fourth sigil glows, lighting a 20ft radius. Each spell cast causes 1d20 damage to the caster.
This shackle would allow for guards and NPCs to clearly see when someone has utilised magic, but at early stages maybe easily hidden. It also disincentives using magic frivolously. You could even work in a way that the guards could be alerted at a particular stage.
Non-magic users
This is the biggest issue I see with your description. Why would your players choose a magic user class? I think you need some kind of consequence for martial/non magic classes. So, perhaps a similar shackle could register attacks or damage dealt? Rangers, Fighters, Rogues, and Monks all scream out the obvious choices to just outright sidestep your setting and make the setting no problem. Tabaxi Barbarians for example could throw out enormous damage at even relatively low levels due to natural weapons. Likewise a Dragonborn breath weapon. Also, is Ki considered magic? I might rule use of Ki is classed as magic, others might not given your setting.
Given all of this, I would limit the races and classes usable by PCs. I know that many people hate this, but especially in homebrew worlds it can make things much more manageable.
If I was going for consequences for non magic users I'd structure the shackle in the following way:
Stage 1 - For the first 25 points of damage dealt - No effects other than a sigil glowing brightly enough to light up five feet radius.
Stage 2 - Next 50 points of damage dealt, to hit rolls are -1 - A second sigil glows, lighting 10ft radius. Each attack causes 1d6 damage to the caster.
Stage 3 - Next 50 points of damage dealt, to hit rolls are -2 - A third sigil glows, lighting a 15ft radius. Each attack causes 1d10 damage to the caster.
Stage 4 - Next 75 points of damage dealt, to hit rolls are -3 - A fourth sigil glows, lighting a 20ft radius. Each attack causes 1d20 damage to the caster.
Cludgy and just off the top of my head, but a suggestion that keeps the game harsh and difficult. Maybe RPd that the shackle tightens magically affecting aim? Also provides a clear balance to allow a freer choice of classes for players.
Levels and XP
I think obviously your setting needs to be milestoned. If it was me, I'd think about creating your own structure. How many missions to level up? Given you want difficulty, I'd be thinking along these kind of lines:
Level 2 = 5 Missions
Level 3 = 5 more missions = 10 Missions Total
Level 4 = 10 more missions = 20 Missions Total
Level 5 = 10 more missions = 30 Missions Total
Level 6 = 15 more missions = 45 Missions Total
Level 7 = 15 more missions = 60 Missions Total
Level 8 = 20 more missions = 80 Missions Total
Level 9 = 20 more missions = 100 Missions Total
Level 10 = 25 more missions = 125 Missions Total
Depending on length of session, you could conceivably have players at level 1 for the first five sessions. The problem is that as a player it can be real frustrating to be stuck at levels for soooo long. Personally, I'd use common sense to milestone and go 'yeah feels like a good time to level now'. That's just me though.
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
First thought was Escape From New York. Awesome movie.
a) someone said monks would be powerful. Not necessarily. You can improvise weapons fairly easily; e.g. newspaper knives, soap in a sock. I'd suggest the characters being able to craft simple melee weapons instead of relying on "improvised weapon" attacks. Ranged characters would be at a disadvantage though, unless they wanna use a sling or something.
b) guy directly above me made a great post
Just be really upfront with all of those bullet points. You're effectively cutting off access to most class features and slowing level progression, so for a large chunk of the game the only character choices that will matter are skill proficiencies and roleplaying aspects. You may have issues with bards and rogues and just generally charisma-based classes having much more impact on what I assume will be play focused on social challenges. You may also want to embrace the idea of allowing skills based on alternate ability scores so that, for example a fighter might have decent chance at intimidating someone with strength.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I wanted to echo this, these restrictions could be fine or horrible depending on your players and how you communicate and enforce these constraints. You’re severely limiting spellcaster classes, especially since it sounds like class features will also be constrained and not just spells. Meanwhile martial classes will be able to use their entire kits with impunity.
Even if you force them to learn class features from NPCs, it sounds like a fighter will be fine using weapons anytime but a wizard will immediately be targeted for using a cantrip. So you’re incentivizing them to use weapons over magic, which means ability scores are also a conundrum. Spellcasters will need to choose to be either less effective using their spells to be able to use weapons more, or be less generally capable but still under a lot of risk when using magic and class features.
Could be interesting if your players are ok with playing a gang of barbarians, monks, rogues, etc. but if one person wants to play a sorcerer or warlock they’re going to have a rough time. One positive is that it could be a good situation to make feats more impactful, like poisoner for example. A session zero where you talk through all of this will be crucial.