I was watching this guys vid, first time, I don't have much of an opinion of his, erm, opinions. Marshal MacLuhan? Well yea but... anyho. At about the 8:15 mark he mentions that a lot of D&D stuff, sorta what's he's on about, is bought at great expense by the DM. But not players. So... I realize that's very true. I am the guy who is really into D&D and buying hundreds of dollars of stuff. My players photo-copied a character sheet they found online. lol
To be fair, my players did buy me a great DMs bag to carry books and minis, etc. And the other X-mass they got me battle maps! On my 50th birthday we had a D&D theme, with decorations they did and they used a medieval recipe to make actual malt wine. With cinnamon.
Anyho', hey, how does it feel to be the whale? Pros? Cons? Pitfalls?
Note; in gaming vernacular a "whale" is a guy or gal with $$$ and spends it to such a degree that the company making the stuff the whale is $$$ing on actually market directly to, and push products designed for, them.
'Hundreds of dollars' isn't much of a whale by video game standards, though certainly you're making up for the low expenditures of your players. RPGs in general are dependent on older gamers with more money than time to provide the funding while younger games with more time than money provide the enthusiasm, but they mostly don't have the targeting of the 1% that you see in the more predatory video games.
To be a whale you have to be a rare high paying customer that they can up sell but a regular customer who pays the typical price of entry. To think of it another way a whale in WOW is not some one who buys every expansion and pays for a subscription, thats just the cost of the game. A whale is some one who does that and then buys a bunch of cosmetics.
For DND a whale would not just be buying every book but buying special editions, miniatures, dm screens and special dice ect...
To be a whale you have to be a rare high paying customer that they can up sell but a regular customer who pays the typical price of entry. To think of it another way a whale in WOW is not some one who buys every expansion and pays for a subscription, thats just the cost of the game. A whale is some one who does that and then buys a bunch of cosmetics.
For DND a whale would not just be buying every book but buying special editions, miniatures, dm screens and special dice ect...
Yes, I think this is correct. But don't compare the small market of D&D to WoW or video games, which is a massive billion dollar astral juggernaut. lol :D
Yes, I think this is correct. But don't compare the small market of D&D to WoW or video games, which is a massive billion dollar astral juggernaut. lol :D
D&D is not a small market even by video game standards; it's not as big as the biggest products, but it's certainly big enough to be noticed.
To be a whale you have to be a rare high paying customer that they can up sell but a regular customer who pays the typical price of entry. To think of it another way a whale in WOW is not some one who buys every expansion and pays for a subscription, thats just the cost of the game. A whale is some one who does that and then buys a bunch of cosmetics.
For DND a whale would not just be buying every book but buying special editions, miniatures, dm screens and special dice ect...
DnD is as expensive as you want it to be.
You don't have to buy any published material. You can play the entire game with SRD or PHB.
It really is the perfect hobby, it's super accessible for people who want low barrier for entry and has unlimited ceiling for those that want to have an insane experience.
Note; in gaming vernacular a "whale" is a guy or gal with $$$ and spends it to such a degree that the company making the stuff the whale is $$$ing on actually market directly to, and push products designed for, them.
And it's not a term that has any relevance to D&D
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yes, I think this is correct. But don't compare the small market of D&D to WoW or video games, which is a massive billion dollar astral juggernaut. lol :D
D&D is not a small market even by video game standards; it's not as big as the biggest products, but it's certainly big enough to be noticed.
Hasbro paid $150 million for D&D Beyond. WotC had $1.3 billion in revenues in 2021 (much MTG but some significant fraction was D&D or they wouldn't have paid $150 million for a digital tooset).
As for being a whale, in video game terms, D&D has a free to play model not a fee for use one. The basic rules are free. Folks can go out and play D&D without spending any money. It is the "whales" that go out and buy the books to enhance the game experience and they take their free to play friends along for the ride.
So, I'd say anyone buying a bunch of the D&D books, owning significant D&D digital resources, possibly on multiple platforms - definitely fits the description of a "whale".
In addition, as for almost any commercial venture, the products produced are targeted at those that will buy them. With the exception of PHB, XgtE, Tashas and possibly part of MMotM which have significant player targeted content (and are useful/essential to both players and DMs) - almost everything else is targeted at the DMs ("whales") who tend to spend more.
Our original gaming group years ago agreed to let each member buy up a different game so we all got a chance to try a bunch of different games. I got ended up buying a bunch of orphan games that didn't last long or get very big. Like Dr. Who and Gamma World.
It's really not anymore. With this site, you can split the cost of books amongst everyone in the campaign. Buy a set of dice (or don't and use an app) and you're all set.
Part of the success of 5e (and D&D in general) is the extremely low entry cost. Newbies can try out a game - or a whole campaign - for zero dollars.
Of course, like any hobby there are peripheral items. And a game like D&D which - hate to profile here but let's be honest - targets single working adults who often have a good chunk of expendable income, is going to generate a pretty large market of "extras" like dice, minis, terrain, maps, campaign modules, 3rd party content, etc. If you like all that stuff and it brings you happiness, congratulations. Life is good. Take a minute to be thankful that you are able to indulge, and when you can try to spread the joy and enthusiasm it brings you to others.
Thanks everyone, great answers. And perhaps I shouldn't use the word 'whale', but David42's post was eye opening! And scatterbraind makes a great point about costs. :)
I very much feel like a whale, but not really for WOTC -- though I do own every book except Spelljamer and Radiant Citadel. I shoulder a lot of costs for all my groups on my own shoulders. I am the one with a D&D Master Tier account, I have the books on here, but I am also a Patreon supporter of a lot of different creators, like Elven Tower and Tom Cartlos. I also buy content from DM's Guild or 3rd party like Mage Hand Press. I have undoubtedly spent thousands on this game since 5e was released... because I do also own quite a lot of the books in real life too... and ALSO lend those out.
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DM: Adventures in Phandalin [Khessa], The Dread of Strahd[Darya], Dragons of Stormwreck Isle [Rook], Baldur's Gate Mysteries [4-Player] Player: Oona in MO's Icewind Dale Ru's Current Status
Thanks everyone, great answers. And perhaps I shouldn't use the word 'whale', but David42's post was eye opening! And scatterbraind makes a great point about costs. :)
Yeah, the term just doesn't scale well with the economics of D&D
Compare it to, let's say, Pokemon Go or something like that. Whales represent a tiny percentage of the total audience, and the revenue they generate consistently as individuals is orders of magnitude greater than the average person who mainly just pulls out their phone to try and catch stuff on their daily commute, or even a more dedicated player who regularly does raids with their friends and drops some money once in a while for passes
That's just not a decent analogy to a DM buying books and adventures to share with their group. Like, buying a Legendary bundle from scratch right now still isn't $1000 on DDB, and that's a one-time thing. That's pocket change for a whale
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
So "Whale" is actually derived from the casino term which meant the "high roller" who got things like hotel suites and meals and show tix comped, because the amount of money the whale would drop in the actual gambling spaces dwarfed all those perks.
In TTRPG and other "fan" spaces, "whales" are basically folks who do try to buy it all. Having dropped a few hundred? That's like 5-6 books. A whale would be the person who buys all the books (even the bad ones, probably because they pre-order everything), the sapphire dice set from a while back, pretty much every screen and accessory put out by WotC, and probably every Mini dumped by WizKids in the official adventure line, and since those are blind draw boxes, the whale probably invested in a whole case (which will approach close to a grand per adventure release). I wouldn't confirm whale status unless this high roller also bought the most expensive Beedle and Grimm luxury editions of D&D releases.
Some folks have money to spend. I'm no where near that level, but I own a lot of 5e books, a few other games,and, oh yeah, I spent a good part of the pandemic hunting down FFG's Star Wars TTRPG games on eBay (got all the sourcebooks, been toying with the modules) including one I would have thought was a ridiculous expense had I not found a shop cutting me a deal on most of the collection I acquired. But I'm adult and what I was spending was comparable to what I spent on live entertainment, movies and such.
Thing is D&D is not essentially expensive, the "you need this stuff" is the lie WotC pushes at the core of its business strategy. Nothing WotC puts out for sale is actually essential to play. I didn't really get back into D&D until the pandemic, prior to that when I got to play I got by just fine with the SRD, and stuff loaned to me at table or syncing up with whatever homebrew or 3rd party thing is out there. Might not have been 100% RAW so much as Rules as Remembered and Cribbed into Notebooks and GoogleDocs, but it was fun.
If you have the resources to buy deep into D&D or any game, and you share those purchases with the people you play with, or even just hoard them in a safe deposit box, well, I guess I just don't know what your question is getting at (though the safe deposit box thing would be a little eccentric).
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
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I was watching this guys vid, first time, I don't have much of an opinion of his, erm, opinions. Marshal MacLuhan? Well yea but... anyho. At about the 8:15 mark he mentions that a lot of D&D stuff, sorta what's he's on about, is bought at great expense by the DM. But not players. So... I realize that's very true. I am the guy who is really into D&D and buying hundreds of dollars of stuff. My players photo-copied a character sheet they found online. lol
To be fair, my players did buy me a great DMs bag to carry books and minis, etc. And the other X-mass they got me battle maps! On my 50th birthday we had a D&D theme, with decorations they did and they used a medieval recipe to make actual malt wine. With cinnamon.
Anyho', hey, how does it feel to be the whale? Pros? Cons? Pitfalls?
Note; in gaming vernacular a "whale" is a guy or gal with $$$ and spends it to such a degree that the company making the stuff the whale is $$$ing on actually market directly to, and push products designed for, them.
Oh right, here's This Guy's vid.
Beran Derop? Something.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wlSCwp_JVA
'Hundreds of dollars' isn't much of a whale by video game standards, though certainly you're making up for the low expenditures of your players. RPGs in general are dependent on older gamers with more money than time to provide the funding while younger games with more time than money provide the enthusiasm, but they mostly don't have the targeting of the 1% that you see in the more predatory video games.
Nah, DND is just expensive.
To be a whale you have to be a rare high paying customer that they can up sell but a regular customer who pays the typical price of entry. To think of it another way a whale in WOW is not some one who buys every expansion and pays for a subscription, thats just the cost of the game. A whale is some one who does that and then buys a bunch of cosmetics.
For DND a whale would not just be buying every book but buying special editions, miniatures, dm screens and special dice ect...
Yes, I think this is correct. But don't compare the small market of D&D to WoW or video games, which is a massive billion dollar astral juggernaut. lol :D
D&D is not a small market even by video game standards; it's not as big as the biggest products, but it's certainly big enough to be noticed.
DnD is as expensive as you want it to be.
You don't have to buy any published material. You can play the entire game with SRD or PHB.
It really is the perfect hobby, it's super accessible for people who want low barrier for entry and has unlimited ceiling for those that want to have an insane experience.
And it's not a term that has any relevance to D&D
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Yep. D&D is much larger than it used to be ...
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/dungeons-dragons-is-on-such-a-roll-hasbro-bought-d-d-beyond-for-almost-150-million-in-cash-11649877741
Hasbro paid $150 million for D&D Beyond. WotC had $1.3 billion in revenues in 2021 (much MTG but some significant fraction was D&D or they wouldn't have paid $150 million for a digital tooset).
As for being a whale, in video game terms, D&D has a free to play model not a fee for use one. The basic rules are free. Folks can go out and play D&D without spending any money. It is the "whales" that go out and buy the books to enhance the game experience and they take their free to play friends along for the ride.
So, I'd say anyone buying a bunch of the D&D books, owning significant D&D digital resources, possibly on multiple platforms - definitely fits the description of a "whale".
In addition, as for almost any commercial venture, the products produced are targeted at those that will buy them. With the exception of PHB, XgtE, Tashas and possibly part of MMotM which have significant player targeted content (and are useful/essential to both players and DMs) - almost everything else is targeted at the DMs ("whales") who tend to spend more.
It has always been that way.
Our original gaming group years ago agreed to let each member buy up a different game so we all got a chance to try a bunch of different games. I got ended up buying a bunch of orphan games that didn't last long or get very big. Like Dr. Who and Gamma World.
It's really not anymore. With this site, you can split the cost of books amongst everyone in the campaign. Buy a set of dice (or don't and use an app) and you're all set.
Part of the success of 5e (and D&D in general) is the extremely low entry cost. Newbies can try out a game - or a whole campaign - for zero dollars.
Of course, like any hobby there are peripheral items. And a game like D&D which - hate to profile here but let's be honest - targets single working adults who often have a good chunk of expendable income, is going to generate a pretty large market of "extras" like dice, minis, terrain, maps, campaign modules, 3rd party content, etc. If you like all that stuff and it brings you happiness, congratulations. Life is good. Take a minute to be thankful that you are able to indulge, and when you can try to spread the joy and enthusiasm it brings you to others.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
Thanks everyone, great answers. And perhaps I shouldn't use the word 'whale', but David42's post was eye opening! And scatterbraind makes a great point about costs. :)
I very much feel like a whale, but not really for WOTC -- though I do own every book except Spelljamer and Radiant Citadel. I shoulder a lot of costs for all my groups on my own shoulders. I am the one with a D&D Master Tier account, I have the books on here, but I am also a Patreon supporter of a lot of different creators, like Elven Tower and Tom Cartlos. I also buy content from DM's Guild or 3rd party like Mage Hand Press. I have undoubtedly spent thousands on this game since 5e was released... because I do also own quite a lot of the books in real life too... and ALSO lend those out.
DM: Adventures in Phandalin [Khessa], The Dread of Strahd [Darya], Dragons of Stormwreck Isle [Rook], Baldur's Gate Mysteries [4-Player]
Player: Oona in MO's Icewind Dale
Ru's Current Status
Yeah, the term just doesn't scale well with the economics of D&D
Compare it to, let's say, Pokemon Go or something like that. Whales represent a tiny percentage of the total audience, and the revenue they generate consistently as individuals is orders of magnitude greater than the average person who mainly just pulls out their phone to try and catch stuff on their daily commute, or even a more dedicated player who regularly does raids with their friends and drops some money once in a while for passes
That's just not a decent analogy to a DM buying books and adventures to share with their group. Like, buying a Legendary bundle from scratch right now still isn't $1000 on DDB, and that's a one-time thing. That's pocket change for a whale
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't think you can be considered a whale unless you spend 1000+ usd. I'm not sure there is even enough to buy on dndbeyond to qualify for whaling.
Altrazin Aghanes - Wizard/Fighter
Varpulis Windhowl - Fighter
Skolson Demjon - Cleric/Fighter
So "Whale" is actually derived from the casino term which meant the "high roller" who got things like hotel suites and meals and show tix comped, because the amount of money the whale would drop in the actual gambling spaces dwarfed all those perks.
In TTRPG and other "fan" spaces, "whales" are basically folks who do try to buy it all. Having dropped a few hundred? That's like 5-6 books. A whale would be the person who buys all the books (even the bad ones, probably because they pre-order everything), the sapphire dice set from a while back, pretty much every screen and accessory put out by WotC, and probably every Mini dumped by WizKids in the official adventure line, and since those are blind draw boxes, the whale probably invested in a whole case (which will approach close to a grand per adventure release). I wouldn't confirm whale status unless this high roller also bought the most expensive Beedle and Grimm luxury editions of D&D releases.
Some folks have money to spend. I'm no where near that level, but I own a lot of 5e books, a few other games,and, oh yeah, I spent a good part of the pandemic hunting down FFG's Star Wars TTRPG games on eBay (got all the sourcebooks, been toying with the modules) including one I would have thought was a ridiculous expense had I not found a shop cutting me a deal on most of the collection I acquired. But I'm adult and what I was spending was comparable to what I spent on live entertainment, movies and such.
Thing is D&D is not essentially expensive, the "you need this stuff" is the lie WotC pushes at the core of its business strategy. Nothing WotC puts out for sale is actually essential to play. I didn't really get back into D&D until the pandemic, prior to that when I got to play I got by just fine with the SRD, and stuff loaned to me at table or syncing up with whatever homebrew or 3rd party thing is out there. Might not have been 100% RAW so much as Rules as Remembered and Cribbed into Notebooks and GoogleDocs, but it was fun.
If you have the resources to buy deep into D&D or any game, and you share those purchases with the people you play with, or even just hoard them in a safe deposit box, well, I guess I just don't know what your question is getting at (though the safe deposit box thing would be a little eccentric).
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.