So I run a group (as you all know if you follow my threads here regularly) where people come and go. College town, college program, not everyone is permanently settling here. Anyway, today I was called out as a horrible DM by a former player who got mad at me...for something THAT WAS HIS FAULT. Now please, hear me out, because what happened forced me to STOP the session and go on an angry rant about how lack of communication and then blaming someone else is uncalled for.
So this member of the group would constantly refuse to tell us whether or not we would make it, tell us at the last minute and then if we couldn't host a session would get upset. Now I don't drive and my place is too small to host. The DM of the group I play in is kind enough to host AND pick me up and bring me home. However, he lives 30 minutes away from me. As a result I don't want him picking me up if there's not going to be a session. Don't want him wasting gas. So I have asked the group several times over "Please tell us whether or not you can make it this week so we can schedule the session."
This person flat out REFUSED to respect that and insisted upon telling us last minute, which lead to some forced cancelations and a waste of my friend's time and gas. Finally this guy tells us he's moving to Orlando for an internship and we BOTH asked him "How would you like to be written out?" His response: I don't really know, so do whatever you'd like. It's fine with me. Apparently, this was not what he wanted.
He played a chaotic evil minotaur who came to the continent from overseas and was a wanted war criminal in his homeland. So since he told us we could do whatever he wanted, we decided to have two guards from his homeland come to the continent we made for the game world to extradite him back. Well one of the current players promised to update him on his write out. And when he found out what we did, he started screaming and throwing a massive temper tantrum.
He said I was in the wrong to set up that write out because I didn't have his consent to do that. Again HIS EXACT WORDS: "Do whatever you'd like." and then started DEMANDING that I stop the session (even though he's no longer here) and redo his entire write out "Or else."
So please, tell me WHY exactly am I a horrible, bad, That Guy DM for getting mad? I told him for MONTHS on end "You NEED to communicate with us. Communication is important. You need to tell us EXACTLY what you want your character to do. What sort of things will upset you at the table so we can make sure everyone gets along." And he refused to listen. But at least one player at the table got upset and looked ready to tell me off.
Yet our little chaotic evil friend was throwing a tantrum because he refuses to practice good communication skills and then tried blaming me for his blantant laziness? And I could say more, but I don't want to risk accidentally breaking ToS by, say, using foul language to describe his unwillingness to respect our request that everyone practice proper communication skills.
Am I right to be upset that the former player did this AND practically threatened me with his "Or else?" Or should I just say "Oh well, he refused to communicate but I'm a bad person for listening to him when he said 'do whatever you want for my write out?'"
Should I write up the minotaur as a That Guy, and move on? Or should I consider since I know some students come and go due to my being a volunteer DM through an independent living college program and I know there are going to risk being people like this (one player actually quit after one session because he wanted us to abandon the current story and put a WHOLE spotlight on him even though we didn't want to do that to the rest of the party) and tell the director "Sorry but until these students learn to practice proper communication skills, I'm shutting the group down?"
Anyway, I know this is a little TL;DR, but I got so frustrated at being screamed at by someone who apparently needs to visit an ear doctor and get an in-depth hearing test done and I was literally about ready to shut down my group over this. Even though the current three players absolutely love D&D and two of them are newcomers who are not only learning but are constantly having fun and always try to make everyone at the table laugh.
I mean, the guy is gone. He sounds like a problem player from the start - "Wanted for war crimes" sounds to me like he was wanting a Chaotic Evil character who does whatever he wants.
Honestly, I would just handwave future outs. Say they were called away by a messenger and refused to say why. Job done.
You're right to be upset, but try to let it go. They aren't your problem any more. If they come back and want to play, tell them no - they made their bed by threatening you, they can lie in it.
Regarding Quit or Don't Quit (noodles....), you need to decide if you are enjoying doing it. Some players will be wangrods, that's an established thing in D&D. with drop-ins and changing groups, you will unearth them - so consider establishing a quick and clear session 0 to run for new introductions, giving them options for their characters arrival as well as clear rules on what is expected of them.
Funny thing is he DID follow the rules of the game. I know he's obsessed with Dragon Ball Z Abridged, particularly their take on the Frieza Saga so I always figured he was just using the game to fulfill some sort of fantasy of megalomania or another.
All you can do is communicate to people and then acknowledge their responses. It sounds like you did your part, and this person's choices are out of your control. I think you are handling this correct way for the most part. Key is, don't let the frustration come to surface in front of others. I know that can be hard, but it is important.
Here is the thing about a "bad DM"; that can be just this player's opinion. In which case, if that is how they feel, then it is probably for the best this player is leaving the game. That all you need to articulate to them. You set the rules for confirming and cancelling games, and if the player is unable to abide by the rules, that is not on you. If you show a courtesy to the table then all players at the table should return similar courtesy.
Give yourself some distance and move on. Focus on your upcoming events.
It's not worth another minute of your consideration. They sound toxic and now they're gone. Sorry you had to deal with it but it's best to just move on.
Just a note, it's totally within your power to say that CE characters are not allowed in your game. It's a great way to screen players - if they have a problem with that rule, they are probably not someone you want to play with anyway.
Just a note, it's totally within your power to say that CE characters are not allowed in your game. It's a great way to screen players - if they have a problem with that rule, they are probably not someone you want to play with anyway.
One could do that, but it's neither necessary nor sufficient. The problem isn't specifically CE; it's characters that are disruptive. The classic Lawful Stupid paladin is just as bad.
It's a cooperative game, and (barring unusual groups) it's incumbent on the players to bring characters who are capable of working with others.
With a group as described by the OP (or, really, any group), adding a new player ought to be explicitly provisional, with the option to bounce them after a session or two if it's not working out. With that understanding as part of an explicit onboarding process, problems like the one described are much less likely to happen.
(Also, back in my college days, we shaped the games to be about a semester long. Next semester, we'd run a new game, less the players who'd left and adding new ones. It just seems simpler than a long, ongoing, game.)
I would have never put up with missing sessions like that. You guys were too kind. It's one thing to have a casual player that comes and goes, but quite another to expect everyone to only have sessions when you can attend (and then to only let them know at the last minute).
Here's the thing about setting healthy boundaries. They only work with healthy people. You try to set a healthy boundary with someone like that, you're going to get a negative reaction like that.
I think the question you need to ask yourself is, do you want someone like that in your life? Maybe it's best to end that relationship, even if it ends badly.
Well I haven't spoken to him since he moved so he's really a part of my life, per se. It's one of the students in the program that chooses to keep in touch with him. It's reached a point where any students who behave that way at the table are going to be permanently banned even if the program helps them improve their behavior and/or social skills. Since this is a currently on-going activity where students who graduate get written out and new students who wish to learn the game come in, now that a situation like this has arisen, I'm taking the steps to make sure it doesn't repeat itself.
I'd just let it go. The situation isn't worth the angst it seems to be causing and it is clearly an issue of communications skills.
In terms of continuing to play, if you are enjoying running it then go for it. However, since it is a group with a frequently changing roster then you might want to write up a simple Code of Conduct document that covers the basics like talking/communicating/scheduling etc. Folks canceling at the last moment will happen but it shouldn't be commonplace or frequent. I'd also suggest that playing the game shouldn't rely on one person being available. If you play with 6 players normally, have some flexibility with encounters you set up so that you can still play with 4 if a couple of people can't make it or don't show.
However, you also mention "even if the program helps them improve their behavior and/or social skills" which might lead me to think that the D&D game is more than a D&D game and might be catering to people who already have communications issues in the first place.
If you are dealing with people with known issues in terms of communications, in terms of getting things done at a specific point in time, in terms of being responsible then you probably need to take a bit extra effort to make sure that they understand what is communicated to them. They may be standing there hearing what you say but if they aren't listening it really does no good. In addition, depending on what sort of "communications" issues these folks might have, a person might say at one point that they don't care and then when they hear what actually happened (and are listening) decide that isn't how they wanted it to end. Either way, it isn't your fault but there are folks out there where these types of inconsistencies happen. (In future, I would just write characters out of the story by having them set off to adventure on their own .. you don't really need some backstory related reason and the other players really don't care that much about what happens to the character of a player who is no longer there).
I'd also add that there are a variety of reasons folks might choose to play an "evil" character, particularly chaotic evil. Some of them might be role playing reasons, some might be to try out something different but in my experience, folks who want to play a chaotic evil character in a game that is fundamentally based on team cooperation, trust and group role playing can often be a red flag.
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So I run a group (as you all know if you follow my threads here regularly) where people come and go. College town, college program, not everyone is permanently settling here. Anyway, today I was called out as a horrible DM by a former player who got mad at me...for something THAT WAS HIS FAULT. Now please, hear me out, because what happened forced me to STOP the session and go on an angry rant about how lack of communication and then blaming someone else is uncalled for.
So this member of the group would constantly refuse to tell us whether or not we would make it, tell us at the last minute and then if we couldn't host a session would get upset. Now I don't drive and my place is too small to host. The DM of the group I play in is kind enough to host AND pick me up and bring me home. However, he lives 30 minutes away from me. As a result I don't want him picking me up if there's not going to be a session. Don't want him wasting gas. So I have asked the group several times over "Please tell us whether or not you can make it this week so we can schedule the session."
This person flat out REFUSED to respect that and insisted upon telling us last minute, which lead to some forced cancelations and a waste of my friend's time and gas. Finally this guy tells us he's moving to Orlando for an internship and we BOTH asked him "How would you like to be written out?" His response: I don't really know, so do whatever you'd like. It's fine with me. Apparently, this was not what he wanted.
He played a chaotic evil minotaur who came to the continent from overseas and was a wanted war criminal in his homeland. So since he told us we could do whatever he wanted, we decided to have two guards from his homeland come to the continent we made for the game world to extradite him back. Well one of the current players promised to update him on his write out. And when he found out what we did, he started screaming and throwing a massive temper tantrum.
He said I was in the wrong to set up that write out because I didn't have his consent to do that. Again HIS EXACT WORDS: "Do whatever you'd like." and then started DEMANDING that I stop the session (even though he's no longer here) and redo his entire write out "Or else."
So please, tell me WHY exactly am I a horrible, bad, That Guy DM for getting mad? I told him for MONTHS on end "You NEED to communicate with us. Communication is important. You need to tell us EXACTLY what you want your character to do. What sort of things will upset you at the table so we can make sure everyone gets along." And he refused to listen. But at least one player at the table got upset and looked ready to tell me off.
Yet our little chaotic evil friend was throwing a tantrum because he refuses to practice good communication skills and then tried blaming me for his blantant laziness? And I could say more, but I don't want to risk accidentally breaking ToS by, say, using foul language to describe his unwillingness to respect our request that everyone practice proper communication skills.
Am I right to be upset that the former player did this AND practically threatened me with his "Or else?" Or should I just say "Oh well, he refused to communicate but I'm a bad person for listening to him when he said 'do whatever you want for my write out?'"
Should I write up the minotaur as a That Guy, and move on? Or should I consider since I know some students come and go due to my being a volunteer DM through an independent living college program and I know there are going to risk being people like this (one player actually quit after one session because he wanted us to abandon the current story and put a WHOLE spotlight on him even though we didn't want to do that to the rest of the party) and tell the director "Sorry but until these students learn to practice proper communication skills, I'm shutting the group down?"
Anyway, I know this is a little TL;DR, but I got so frustrated at being screamed at by someone who apparently needs to visit an ear doctor and get an in-depth hearing test done and I was literally about ready to shut down my group over this. Even though the current three players absolutely love D&D and two of them are newcomers who are not only learning but are constantly having fun and always try to make everyone at the table laugh.
I mean, the guy is gone. He sounds like a problem player from the start - "Wanted for war crimes" sounds to me like he was wanting a Chaotic Evil character who does whatever he wants.
Honestly, I would just handwave future outs. Say they were called away by a messenger and refused to say why. Job done.
You're right to be upset, but try to let it go. They aren't your problem any more. If they come back and want to play, tell them no - they made their bed by threatening you, they can lie in it.
Regarding Quit or Don't Quit (noodles....), you need to decide if you are enjoying doing it. Some players will be wangrods, that's an established thing in D&D. with drop-ins and changing groups, you will unearth them - so consider establishing a quick and clear session 0 to run for new introductions, giving them options for their characters arrival as well as clear rules on what is expected of them.
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Funny thing is he DID follow the rules of the game. I know he's obsessed with Dragon Ball Z Abridged, particularly their take on the Frieza Saga so I always figured he was just using the game to fulfill some sort of fantasy of megalomania or another.
All you can do is communicate to people and then acknowledge their responses. It sounds like you did your part, and this person's choices are out of your control. I think you are handling this correct way for the most part. Key is, don't let the frustration come to surface in front of others. I know that can be hard, but it is important.
Here is the thing about a "bad DM"; that can be just this player's opinion. In which case, if that is how they feel, then it is probably for the best this player is leaving the game. That all you need to articulate to them. You set the rules for confirming and cancelling games, and if the player is unable to abide by the rules, that is not on you. If you show a courtesy to the table then all players at the table should return similar courtesy.
Give yourself some distance and move on. Focus on your upcoming events.
It's not worth another minute of your consideration. They sound toxic and now they're gone. Sorry you had to deal with it but it's best to just move on.
Just a note, it's totally within your power to say that CE characters are not allowed in your game. It's a great way to screen players - if they have a problem with that rule, they are probably not someone you want to play with anyway.
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(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
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(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
One could do that, but it's neither necessary nor sufficient. The problem isn't specifically CE; it's characters that are disruptive. The classic Lawful Stupid paladin is just as bad.
It's a cooperative game, and (barring unusual groups) it's incumbent on the players to bring characters who are capable of working with others.
With a group as described by the OP (or, really, any group), adding a new player ought to be explicitly provisional, with the option to bounce them after a session or two if it's not working out. With that understanding as part of an explicit onboarding process, problems like the one described are much less likely to happen.
(Also, back in my college days, we shaped the games to be about a semester long. Next semester, we'd run a new game, less the players who'd left and adding new ones. It just seems simpler than a long, ongoing, game.)
I would have never put up with missing sessions like that. You guys were too kind. It's one thing to have a casual player that comes and goes, but quite another to expect everyone to only have sessions when you can attend (and then to only let them know at the last minute).
You're better off without him.
Here's the thing about setting healthy boundaries. They only work with healthy people. You try to set a healthy boundary with someone like that, you're going to get a negative reaction like that.
I think the question you need to ask yourself is, do you want someone like that in your life? Maybe it's best to end that relationship, even if it ends badly.
Well I haven't spoken to him since he moved so he's really a part of my life, per se. It's one of the students in the program that chooses to keep in touch with him. It's reached a point where any students who behave that way at the table are going to be permanently banned even if the program helps them improve their behavior and/or social skills. Since this is a currently on-going activity where students who graduate get written out and new students who wish to learn the game come in, now that a situation like this has arisen, I'm taking the steps to make sure it doesn't repeat itself.
I'd just let it go. The situation isn't worth the angst it seems to be causing and it is clearly an issue of communications skills.
In terms of continuing to play, if you are enjoying running it then go for it. However, since it is a group with a frequently changing roster then you might want to write up a simple Code of Conduct document that covers the basics like talking/communicating/scheduling etc. Folks canceling at the last moment will happen but it shouldn't be commonplace or frequent. I'd also suggest that playing the game shouldn't rely on one person being available. If you play with 6 players normally, have some flexibility with encounters you set up so that you can still play with 4 if a couple of people can't make it or don't show.
However, you also mention "even if the program helps them improve their behavior and/or social skills" which might lead me to think that the D&D game is more than a D&D game and might be catering to people who already have communications issues in the first place.
If you are dealing with people with known issues in terms of communications, in terms of getting things done at a specific point in time, in terms of being responsible then you probably need to take a bit extra effort to make sure that they understand what is communicated to them. They may be standing there hearing what you say but if they aren't listening it really does no good. In addition, depending on what sort of "communications" issues these folks might have, a person might say at one point that they don't care and then when they hear what actually happened (and are listening) decide that isn't how they wanted it to end. Either way, it isn't your fault but there are folks out there where these types of inconsistencies happen. (In future, I would just write characters out of the story by having them set off to adventure on their own .. you don't really need some backstory related reason and the other players really don't care that much about what happens to the character of a player who is no longer there).
I'd also add that there are a variety of reasons folks might choose to play an "evil" character, particularly chaotic evil. Some of them might be role playing reasons, some might be to try out something different but in my experience, folks who want to play a chaotic evil character in a game that is fundamentally based on team cooperation, trust and group role playing can often be a red flag.