So I need some suggestions of which Dragons you all would recommend throwing at a party of 5-6 level 9 characters. They will have at best a single magic item each...two would be possible but unlikely when they reach that point (it's a low magic setting). We're also running without Feats which takes potential power level down a notch or two but they will each have at least one feat and a few extra proficiencies. We're also potentially stealing the 'Luck' mechanic from Tales of the Valiant (so much better than Inspiration!).
The Dragon in question will be named Sciath (Shield) and will be in command of a dragon cult. This cult have been abducting people from the city for reasons that the party won't be aware of. Ultimately, Sciath will be determined to prevent a ritual being conducted by the city's leader...though the build up will hopefully seed enough doubt in the party's minds that this is not true and so there is a potential for a showdown.
Mechanically, I'm interested in what Dragon you'd choose to play this part. Combat is entirely possible here and should be survivable...even if just barely. As the party stands now we have a Bard, Paladin, Rogue, Monk and Wizard. They're a choatic play group but can pull together. They just tend to act best when doing their own thing rather than working as a tight unit. The party as players also know that I don't stick to Faerun lore and as such a Red dragon probably isn't evil just 'cause they're a red dragon.
For a solo boss fight, 'deadly' should generally be considered the floor, not the ceiling, and you should only use something that weak if the party will be a bit resource drained before the start of the encounter; a reasonable CR for 5xlevel 9 is 15-20. If you give it minions, the boss can be weaker.
I would definitely not limit or remove the lair actions.
Do you think that would make it too easy from a combat mechanics standpoint, or perhaps is it that it would dilute story options?
It comes down to the encounter building rules in the DMG being deceptive at best and utter nonsense at worst.
The core assumption for encounter building is actually the adventuring day -- which is, at level 9, 7,500 adjusted xp per PC, or 37,500 adjusted xp for 5 PCs.
If you split your day into 6 encounters, like the DMG assumes you will, that's 6,250 adjusted xp, which is comfortably within the 'medium' encounter range (5,500-8,000), and is about a CR 11 opponent.
If your style is more 'one small encounter, one big encounter', which is IME more common, that's something like 12,500 adjusted xp for the small encounter (about CR 15, or 5-6 CR 4 monsters) and 25,000 for the big encounter (CR 20).
What dragon to throw at a party of 5 level 9 characters?
A heavy one.
But seriously, if this is sposta be a seriously dangerous boss fight, I would take the guidelines in the DMG, calculate out what a full day’s total XP worth of Monster is, and throw that at them. I never do the “6 medium encounters” nonsense, I usually do 3 Deadly+ encounters on a combat day. (In my campaigns, not all adventuring days involve combat, or at least not serious combat, maybe just 1 or 2 easy-medium encounters for what I consider a “noncombat day.” But when I do run a combat day, I design my 3 encounters with the expectation of killing a PC. They almost never actually die due to the way 5e is written as it is very, very difficult to actually kill a PC unless it is done intentionally. I never intentionally kill a PC unless the player asks me to or it’s done for a significant narrative reason, but I make the combat encounters deadly enough that it could certainly possibly happen. For a single major boss fight, I would then maybe do 1 medium encounter earlier in the day and one double deadly encounter, or I might just throw a whole day’s worth of combat at them in a single fight. The trouble with boss fights in 5e is that due to the action economy, solo bosses stand almost no chance whatsoever. So I would throw a big, giant, fatty dragon at them, and then give it minions like wyrmlings or other allies to help flesh out the combat and actually make it thrilling for them.
for a party of 5 at level 9, I'd say the max is CR 15-16. For a party of 6, I'd say CR 18-22. (You can search by CR on D&D beyond to find the exact dragon you want.)
If you want ideas for spicing up the encounter, I'd recommend my website https://dragonencounters.com/ . As those ideas aim to optimize the dragon, you should probably knock down the CR by about 2 before using. (In other words, treat the dragon as being 2 CR higher).
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DM, writer, and blog master of https://dragonencounters.com/ a blog dedicated to providing unusual, worthwhile encounters for each monster, making each one unique.
Also, suggestions for which monsters might be found together (for people tired of dungeons full of one humanoid race, and perhaps a few beasts and undead.)
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So I need some suggestions of which Dragons you all would recommend throwing at a party of 5-6 level 9 characters. They will have at best a single magic item each...two would be possible but unlikely when they reach that point (it's a low magic setting). We're also running without Feats which takes potential power level down a notch or two but they will each have at least one feat and a few extra proficiencies. We're also potentially stealing the 'Luck' mechanic from Tales of the Valiant (so much better than Inspiration!).
The Dragon in question will be named Sciath (Shield) and will be in command of a dragon cult. This cult have been abducting people from the city for reasons that the party won't be aware of. Ultimately, Sciath will be determined to prevent a ritual being conducted by the city's leader...though the build up will hopefully seed enough doubt in the party's minds that this is not true and so there is a potential for a showdown.
Mechanically, I'm interested in what Dragon you'd choose to play this part. Combat is entirely possible here and should be survivable...even if just barely. As the party stands now we have a Bard, Paladin, Rogue, Monk and Wizard. They're a choatic play group but can pull together. They just tend to act best when doing their own thing rather than working as a tight unit. The party as players also know that I don't stick to Faerun lore and as such a Red dragon probably isn't evil just 'cause they're a red dragon.
My initial instincts were an Adult Deep Dragon or an Adult Brass Dragon but perhaps without, or with limited lair actions.
Any thoughts or help with this would be fantastic!
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For a solo boss fight, 'deadly' should generally be considered the floor, not the ceiling, and you should only use something that weak if the party will be a bit resource drained before the start of the encounter; a reasonable CR for 5xlevel 9 is 15-20. If you give it minions, the boss can be weaker.
I would definitely not limit or remove the lair actions.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Do you think that would make it too easy from a combat mechanics standpoint, or perhaps is it that it would dilute story options?
DM session planning template - My version of maps for 'Lost Mine of Phandelver' - Send your party to The Circus - Other DM Resources - Maps, Tokens, Quests - 'Better' Player Character Injury Tables?
Actor, Writer, Director & Teacher by day - GM/DM in my off hours.
It comes down to the encounter building rules in the DMG being deceptive at best and utter nonsense at worst.
The core assumption for encounter building is actually the adventuring day -- which is, at level 9, 7,500 adjusted xp per PC, or 37,500 adjusted xp for 5 PCs.
If you split your day into 6 encounters, like the DMG assumes you will, that's 6,250 adjusted xp, which is comfortably within the 'medium' encounter range (5,500-8,000), and is about a CR 11 opponent.
If your style is more 'one small encounter, one big encounter', which is IME more common, that's something like 12,500 adjusted xp for the small encounter (about CR 15, or 5-6 CR 4 monsters) and 25,000 for the big encounter (CR 20).
A heavy one.
But seriously, if this is sposta be a seriously dangerous boss fight, I would take the guidelines in the DMG, calculate out what a full day’s total XP worth of Monster is, and throw that at them. I never do the “6 medium encounters” nonsense, I usually do 3 Deadly+ encounters on a combat day. (In my campaigns, not all adventuring days involve combat, or at least not serious combat, maybe just 1 or 2 easy-medium encounters for what I consider a “noncombat day.” But when I do run a combat day, I design my 3 encounters with the expectation of killing a PC. They almost never actually die due to the way 5e is written as it is very, very difficult to actually kill a PC unless it is done intentionally. I never intentionally kill a PC unless the player asks me to or it’s done for a significant narrative reason, but I make the combat encounters deadly enough that it could certainly possibly happen. For a single major boss fight, I would then maybe do 1 medium encounter earlier in the day and one double deadly encounter, or I might just throw a whole day’s worth of combat at them in a single fight. The trouble with boss fights in 5e is that due to the action economy, solo bosses stand almost no chance whatsoever. So I would throw a big, giant, fatty dragon at them, and then give it minions like wyrmlings or other allies to help flesh out the combat and actually make it thrilling for them.
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Start with cultists.
Then cultists and some sort of powerful leader type that makes the party think that person is the BB.
Then a trip to the sewers to fight a pair of Dung Dragons with their dozen Otyugh friends.
Yeah I am promoting my own monster =)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/259960-dung-dragon-young
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for a party of 5 at level 9, I'd say the max is CR 15-16. For a party of 6, I'd say CR 18-22. (You can search by CR on D&D beyond to find the exact dragon you want.)
If you want ideas for spicing up the encounter, I'd recommend my website https://dragonencounters.com/ . As those ideas aim to optimize the dragon, you should probably knock down the CR by about 2 before using. (In other words, treat the dragon as being 2 CR higher).
DM, writer, and blog master of https://dragonencounters.com/ a blog dedicated to providing unusual, worthwhile encounters for each monster, making each one unique.
Also, suggestions for which monsters might be found together (for people tired of dungeons full of one humanoid race, and perhaps a few beasts and undead.)