I am looking for examples of play preferably from experienced players. To make a long story short my players are all new and they basically would tpk about 80% of the time if I did not baby them. I am not looking to blame anyone (mostly my fault I bet) but I could really use some examples to help them learn to -check for traps; -listen at doors, not run away screaming if you see a monster while scouting ahead, -not think that you should be able to get surprise every room you go into, etc.
Some players are not so careful and like to kick in doors and charge towards monsters. If that is the case then I recommend to adjust your playstyle to that direction. I assume you are the dungeon master? One way to automatically spot traps is to use passive perception, for example if character has passive perception of 10 they spot a bear trap in forest. This reduces the need to search every room and hallway.
Kill them with traps. Have the monsters behind the door ready for them. Make monsters chase the screaming scout. Have monsters get surprise on them.
Then each time, tell them what happened to cause that situation and what they could have done differently to avoid it. Then they will learn to be better players at the same time the characters are learning to be better adventurers.
Subtle or not so subtle hints also help. For example, just straight up ask "do you want to check for traps" and then gradually start asking less and only checking when they say they are. When scouting, describe it in such a way that their actions are obvious. "You see an ogre ahead, but it seems like it hasn't noticed you yet. If you stay quiet, you should be able to move without attracting attention."
As it is, your players are new to the game which means they don't understand the nuances. This is where I have started to implement two things which seem to have helped most of my new players.
Trick/Tip 1: Session 0!!! Always, veteran or novice, always have a session 0. This sets up expectations from both sides of the screen, it sets up house rules, explains settings, explains limitations, explains what the players are creating for characters, gives time for backgrounds and more. You can explain your way of DMing and get an idea of how they are as players. A session 0 is invaluable.
Trick/Tip 2: Tutorial! Every game I start, doesn't matter if it's with veterans or new players, starts with a tutorial style approach. The players are sent to, find themselves in, or otherwise end up in a dungeon where I can toss various challenges at them so they can learn. Give them skill checks, ability rolls, combat, a puzzle or two, traps, social encounters, the whole gamut. This way you can introduce them, even if briefly, to the various mechanics of the game. You can use this time to explain the different approaches they could take to a situation and help them see the merit in not just murderhoboing their way through a game.
As was said earlier, just prompt them for the different choices. Do you search the room? Do you sneak up on the guy? Are you going to barter with the shop keep? So on and so forth. As time goes on you'll find that the players will learn to take the initiative and make those decisions before you prompt them. When my players get to level 3 I tell them; "At level 5 you guys are on your own, you'll have to manage your character sheets and in game decisions and the consequences are your own". For those first 5 levels I'll remind them of triggers, choices, and various other mechanics that may have slipped their minds.
Thank you all for the advice. DMThac0, I never thought of doing that for a full five levels. Now after thinking about it, it would help immensely. All 5 players are new and we play every other week. So I can see how reminding them for the first 3-5 levels what they can do instead of the first few weeks and the first game played after gaining a level. Of course I wish I would have done a session 0 however, I was just happy to be running a game again. In fact I really wish we played every week but that is not possible for the group. Perhaps I will start another game or two because once every other week is not enough!
Do people still use 10' pole to check the floor/ceiling for traps? Do people use coins/food to distract monsters? What other things do players do that they consider standard operating procedure for clearing a dungeon?
Thank you all for the advice. DMThac0, I never thought of doing that for a full five levels. Now after thinking about it, it would help immensely. All 5 players are new and we play every other week. So I can see how reminding them for the first 3-5 levels what they can do instead of the first few weeks and the first game played after gaining a level. Of course I wish I would have done a session 0 however, I was just happy to be running a game again.
You can do a Session 0 any time you want. Consider it a retroactive Session 0, or a recap, or whatever you want to call it. Now that your players have had a chance to get their feet wet they'll probably have a lot to say.
In fact I really wish we played every week but that is not possible for the group. Perhaps I will start another game or two because once every other week is not enough!
Do people still use 10' pole to check the floor/ceiling for traps? Do people use coins/food to distract monsters? What other things do players do that they consider standard operating procedure for clearing a dungeon?
I run/stream three games and play in 2, so I play 10 times a month :) It can get overwhelming for some folks, but once a week seems to be a sweet spot for a lot of people.
As to 10' pole, it's not quite as necessary, but still useful. There is a (old)thread that you might find helpful in this vein: Useful items every adventurer must have
OP - A quick idea, have them join an adventurers' guild, perhaps partner them with an experienced NPC. Guide them through the basics of dungeoneering, as if they are doing a tutorial in a video game.
New players just need some help remembering that not only can they do anything they want, but that their characters might be good at special things. I like to specifically offer rolls/checks to players when it makes sense to help them learn how those skills works.
Players: We go into the next room Me: Kara, as a Rogue you have experience with traps and know this door is a good place to set a trap. Do you want to check for one before you go in?
Players: Welp the NPC said no so I guess we just leave Me: Jim you're a Bard, you're pretty charismatic and persuasive. You think you could try to talk this NPC into helping if you want.
Players: Let's just run forward into the danger! Me: Sam as a Ranger you have some knowledge of the area and know that just running blindly into the forest can be a bad idea. Do you want to scout ahead?
I'll start with super low DCs and as the players get the hang of things I'll start new sessions by stating that I'm going to be trusting the players more and more to not need my hints. Chances are within a few sessions they'll get the hang of things and be asking to do all that stuff before you can even offer!
Please help!
I am looking for examples of play preferably from experienced players. To make a long story short my players are all new and they basically would tpk about 80% of the time if I did not baby them. I am not looking to blame anyone (mostly my fault I bet) but I could really use some examples to help them learn to -check for traps; -listen at doors, not run away screaming if you see a monster while scouting ahead, -not think that you should be able to get surprise every room you go into, etc.
Some players are not so careful and like to kick in doors and charge towards monsters. If that is the case then I recommend to adjust your playstyle to that direction. I assume you are the dungeon master? One way to automatically spot traps is to use passive perception, for example if character has passive perception of 10 they spot a bear trap in forest. This reduces the need to search every room and hallway.
Kill them with traps. Have the monsters behind the door ready for them. Make monsters chase the screaming scout. Have monsters get surprise on them.
Then each time, tell them what happened to cause that situation and what they could have done differently to avoid it. Then they will learn to be better players at the same time the characters are learning to be better adventurers.
Subtle or not so subtle hints also help. For example, just straight up ask "do you want to check for traps" and then gradually start asking less and only checking when they say they are. When scouting, describe it in such a way that their actions are obvious. "You see an ogre ahead, but it seems like it hasn't noticed you yet. If you stay quiet, you should be able to move without attracting attention."
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As it is, your players are new to the game which means they don't understand the nuances. This is where I have started to implement two things which seem to have helped most of my new players.
Trick/Tip 1: Session 0!!! Always, veteran or novice, always have a session 0. This sets up expectations from both sides of the screen, it sets up house rules, explains settings, explains limitations, explains what the players are creating for characters, gives time for backgrounds and more. You can explain your way of DMing and get an idea of how they are as players. A session 0 is invaluable.
Trick/Tip 2: Tutorial! Every game I start, doesn't matter if it's with veterans or new players, starts with a tutorial style approach. The players are sent to, find themselves in, or otherwise end up in a dungeon where I can toss various challenges at them so they can learn. Give them skill checks, ability rolls, combat, a puzzle or two, traps, social encounters, the whole gamut. This way you can introduce them, even if briefly, to the various mechanics of the game. You can use this time to explain the different approaches they could take to a situation and help them see the merit in not just murderhoboing their way through a game.
As was said earlier, just prompt them for the different choices. Do you search the room? Do you sneak up on the guy? Are you going to barter with the shop keep? So on and so forth. As time goes on you'll find that the players will learn to take the initiative and make those decisions before you prompt them. When my players get to level 3 I tell them; "At level 5 you guys are on your own, you'll have to manage your character sheets and in game decisions and the consequences are your own". For those first 5 levels I'll remind them of triggers, choices, and various other mechanics that may have slipped their minds.
Thank you all for the advice. DMThac0, I never thought of doing that for a full five levels. Now after thinking about it, it would help immensely. All 5 players are new and we play every other week. So I can see how reminding them for the first 3-5 levels what they can do instead of the first few weeks and the first game played after gaining a level. Of course I wish I would have done a session 0 however, I was just happy to be running a game again. In fact I really wish we played every week but that is not possible for the group. Perhaps I will start another game or two because once every other week is not enough!
Do people still use 10' pole to check the floor/ceiling for traps? Do people use coins/food to distract monsters? What other things do players do that they consider standard operating procedure for clearing a dungeon?
You can do a Session 0 any time you want. Consider it a retroactive Session 0, or a recap, or whatever you want to call it. Now that your players have had a chance to get their feet wet they'll probably have a lot to say.
I run/stream three games and play in 2, so I play 10 times a month :) It can get overwhelming for some folks, but once a week seems to be a sweet spot for a lot of people.
As to 10' pole, it's not quite as necessary, but still useful. There is a (old)thread that you might find helpful in this vein: Useful items every adventurer must have
OP - A quick idea, have them join an adventurers' guild, perhaps partner them with an experienced NPC. Guide them through the basics of dungeoneering, as if they are doing a tutorial in a video game.
New players just need some help remembering that not only can they do anything they want, but that their characters might be good at special things. I like to specifically offer rolls/checks to players when it makes sense to help them learn how those skills works.
Players: We go into the next room
Me: Kara, as a Rogue you have experience with traps and know this door is a good place to set a trap. Do you want to check for one before you go in?
Players: Welp the NPC said no so I guess we just leave
Me: Jim you're a Bard, you're pretty charismatic and persuasive. You think you could try to talk this NPC into helping if you want.
Players: Let's just run forward into the danger!
Me: Sam as a Ranger you have some knowledge of the area and know that just running blindly into the forest can be a bad idea. Do you want to scout ahead?
I'll start with super low DCs and as the players get the hang of things I'll start new sessions by stating that I'm going to be trusting the players more and more to not need my hints. Chances are within a few sessions they'll get the hang of things and be asking to do all that stuff before you can even offer!
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