I just had a thought for a simple cursed weapon - it would be along the lines of "the night-night stick", a +2 club which can only deal non-lethal damage - so can only knock out opponents, never kill them.
My query is how this would interact with them attacking a foe who is already knocked out - can you specify non-lethal damage against an already unconcious foe, and if so, does it kill them or are you just bloodying them up, keeping them stable and effectively doing nothing?
An attack against a creature on 0 HP automatically inflicts a failed death saving throw (+ a second one for automatic critical). Non-lethal or lethal probably isn't relevant (or the DM could say that it doesn't cause the auto-critical).
There isn't really 'non-lethal' damage in 5e, and what Farling wrote is correct.
However, 'specific beats general', so if you write it explicitly in the item description, that a hit with the weapon that reduced a creature to 0 hp, or that hits a target with 0 hp, will stabilize and knock out the target, you should be ok.
According to the PHB, quote, "When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable."
Maybe you can use this rule, by saying something like, "When using the nightstick, the wielder MUST choose to knock a creature out at 0 hit points."
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For all the complaints about murderhobos and attempts to encourage other styles of play, I'm surprised 5e has stuck so closely to the idea of combat being lethal by default. I have found just removing the default "set phasers to kill" rule can really change the way a party approaches combat.
For my current campaign, you declare lethal or non-lethal intent at initiative. That sets the default, and then if you want to deviate from that during the fight you can say so.
According to the PHB, quote, "When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable."
Maybe you can use this rule, by saying something like, "When using the nightstick, the wielder MUST choose to knock a creature out at 0 hit points."
I guess that's the way to go for it, it is the intent, though I don't want to make the players aware of it - they will see it as a +2 club, the curse is that it only does non-lethal damage. The idea being that creatures or people they "kill", if left unchecked, will be able to come back later. So I will make it just knock creatures out at 0hp. If players just leave the corpse behind, they won't know!
For all the complaints about murderhobos and attempts to encourage other styles of play, I'm surprised 5e has stuck so closely to the idea of combat being lethal by default. I have found just removing the default "set phasers to kill" rule can really change the way a party approaches combat.
For my current campaign, you declare lethal or non-lethal intent at initiative. That sets the default, and then if you want to deviate from that during the fight you can say so.
I like that idea, it's a good one to know what the players are attempting. I might add depth by making it a perception/insight check for the players or baddies to notice that the opponents aren't aiming for the kill, only to incapacitate - it could lead to roleplay to get out of combat!
There isn't really 'non-lethal' damage in 5e, and what Farling wrote is correct.
However, 'specific beats general', so if you write it explicitly in the item description, that a hit with the weapon that reduced a creature to 0 hp, or that hits a target with 0 hp, will stabilize and knock out the target, you should be ok.
I think that's the best one - describe it thoroughly and leave it at that!
Ok not being aware of how you DM I can only talk through some of the issues this weapon would have at my table.
I give very graphic descriptions of combat to my players describing every strike (hit and miss) in combat in detail, the ace cleaves up Into the goblins groin severing an artery, blood sprays, the goblin is still standing but looks ok a bad way. You swing the mace, the bandit ducks down but to slow and you catch him a glancing blow, with one dagger you stab the skeleton through the eye socket, your other dagger flashes out cutting its neck bones, the magic dissipates leaving the skull hanging from its eye socket on your dagger as the rest of its bones collapse in a pile under it.
Now the issue with your weapon, amazingly clever as it is, is that those descriptions will give the game away, an unconscious enemy is different to a dead one in how they fall, or the type of damage you inflict, very quickly my players characters would notice that the cleric with a mace caves in skulls showering blood, the fighter with the night stick seems to just be causing light bruising, detecting a character collapse and unconscious might require a perception check it at least be against passive perception. But also your face n battle descriptions will give yhe game away.
In addition if you have never had enemies fall unconscious before you will need to think about how you handle the death saving throw situation, or how you communicate to players that this enemy is a different kind of dead.
What might be interesting is have the addition of an illusion when an enemy would be killed, the player sees some gory death while the enemy simply falls unconscious, have other characters witness something different if they see it in the heat of battle, then when investigating bodies announce that those enemies are actually still alive but knocked out. That way the player believes them dead. In addition have it that if the weapon strikes an unconcious enemy it appears to do more damage while always missing.
It's only a perk if you realise that everyone you're leaving behind you is going to wake up with a grudge! Otherwise it could be a nasty surprise, especially if the party stops in a "cleared" section of dungeon to have a long rest!
It's only a perk if you realise that everyone you're leaving behind you is going to wake up with a grudge! Otherwise it could be a nasty surprise, especially if the party stops in a "cleared" section of dungeon to have a long rest!
Do your players not investigate every body after every fight, my players would get it after the first combat, there would be no surprise of enemies coming up behind them.
I just had a thought for a simple cursed weapon - it would be along the lines of "the night-night stick", a +2 club which can only deal non-lethal damage - so can only knock out opponents, never kill them.
My query is how this would interact with them attacking a foe who is already knocked out - can you specify non-lethal damage against an already unconcious foe, and if so, does it kill them or are you just bloodying them up, keeping them stable and effectively doing nothing?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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An attack against a creature on 0 HP automatically inflicts a failed death saving throw (+ a second one for automatic critical). Non-lethal or lethal probably isn't relevant (or the DM could say that it doesn't cause the auto-critical).
There isn't really 'non-lethal' damage in 5e, and what Farling wrote is correct.
However, 'specific beats general', so if you write it explicitly in the item description, that a hit with the weapon that reduced a creature to 0 hp, or that hits a target with 0 hp, will stabilize and knock out the target, you should be ok.
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
According to the PHB, quote, "When an attacker reduces a creature to 0 hit points with a melee attack, the attacker can knock the creature out. The attacker can make this choice the instant the damage is dealt. The creature falls unconscious and is stable."
Maybe you can use this rule, by saying something like, "When using the nightstick, the wielder MUST choose to knock a creature out at 0 hit points."
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
For all the complaints about murderhobos and attempts to encourage other styles of play, I'm surprised 5e has stuck so closely to the idea of combat being lethal by default. I have found just removing the default "set phasers to kill" rule can really change the way a party approaches combat.
For my current campaign, you declare lethal or non-lethal intent at initiative. That sets the default, and then if you want to deviate from that during the fight you can say so.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
I guess that's the way to go for it, it is the intent, though I don't want to make the players aware of it - they will see it as a +2 club, the curse is that it only does non-lethal damage. The idea being that creatures or people they "kill", if left unchecked, will be able to come back later. So I will make it just knock creatures out at 0hp. If players just leave the corpse behind, they won't know!
I like that idea, it's a good one to know what the players are attempting. I might add depth by making it a perception/insight check for the players or baddies to notice that the opponents aren't aiming for the kill, only to incapacitate - it could lead to roleplay to get out of combat!
I think that's the best one - describe it thoroughly and leave it at that!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Ok not being aware of how you DM I can only talk through some of the issues this weapon would have at my table.
I give very graphic descriptions of combat to my players describing every strike (hit and miss) in combat in detail, the ace cleaves up Into the goblins groin severing an artery, blood sprays, the goblin is still standing but looks ok a bad way. You swing the mace, the bandit ducks down but to slow and you catch him a glancing blow, with one dagger you stab the skeleton through the eye socket, your other dagger flashes out cutting its neck bones, the magic dissipates leaving the skull hanging from its eye socket on your dagger as the rest of its bones collapse in a pile under it.
Now the issue with your weapon, amazingly clever as it is, is that those descriptions will give the game away, an unconscious enemy is different to a dead one in how they fall, or the type of damage you inflict, very quickly my players characters would notice that the cleric with a mace caves in skulls showering blood, the fighter with the night stick seems to just be causing light bruising, detecting a character collapse and unconscious might require a perception check it at least be against passive perception. But also your face n battle descriptions will give yhe game away.
In addition if you have never had enemies fall unconscious before you will need to think about how you handle the death saving throw situation, or how you communicate to players that this enemy is a different kind of dead.
What might be interesting is have the addition of an illusion when an enemy would be killed, the player sees some gory death while the enemy simply falls unconscious, have other characters witness something different if they see it in the heat of battle, then when investigating bodies announce that those enemies are actually still alive but knocked out. That way the player believes them dead. In addition have it that if the weapon strikes an unconcious enemy it appears to do more damage while always missing.
It's magic. It does nothing because magic.
Seems like more of a perk than a curse to me tbh
It's only a perk if you realise that everyone you're leaving behind you is going to wake up with a grudge! Otherwise it could be a nasty surprise, especially if the party stops in a "cleared" section of dungeon to have a long rest!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
Do your players not investigate every body after every fight, my players would get it after the first combat, there would be no surprise of enemies coming up behind them.
Maybe a the weapon has a Feign Death spell effect built in as part of the curse?
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