I'm curious as to how you interpret the "command" spell. The gist of it is that you say 1 word, and they will do what you said (providing it's not harmful to them). I am curious as to what people think would happen if you used technical language which most people don't know the meaning of. The spell says that if they don't understand the language you're speaking they can't do it, but how does this apply if they speak common, but perhaps wouldn't know the meaning of the word? people who speak common aren't walking dictionaries, after all.
For example, if I were to cast "Command" on a guard and say "Defenestrate!" (meaning to throw someone out of a window, or remove someone from power), would they do either of those things, or would they just say "eh?" - how would you rule it?
For me it's really what separates D&D from a boardgame, it's all about the roleplay, and it would probably depend which type of guard. If it's a prison guard on the edges of the kingdom, or a goblin guard, you would get a "huh ?" or maybe a funny reaction by them misinterpreting the word, but if it was a royal guard in a palace, you would probably get the expected reaction, after all defenestration was a rather popular method to speed up the succession in some kingdoms...
The wikipedia article is really interesting and witty, by the way, speaking of the "good bohemian style"...
Yep, your average medieval guard would probably misinterpret it badly, and poop their pants in compliance.
I am actually loving the idea now of the guards being incredibly confused but unable to not obey just because they don't know the meaning of the word, so they do whatever they think it could mean. If you cast it on several, I love the idea that one might lie down, another might try to do a handstand, and the third might start taking off their clothes!
Funnily enough, “defenestrate” is my favorite word. It comes from the Latin (and Italian), “de finestra,” meaning “from a window.” (Much like the word “delivery” is from the phrase “de livery,” meaning “brought by a livery service.”) By the way, objects can be defenestrated just like people.
I would base it off of the target’s Intelligence and occupation. For example, an Int 10 commoner would likely only know technical jargon related to their livelihood, while I would expect an Int 18 abjurer would be rather erudite and likely have an extensive vocabulary.
IMO, the most commonly useful words to use for command are common words like “sit,” “stop,” “wait,” and “run.” (Also, depending on how narrowly or liberally your DM chooses to interpret and apply the concept of a single word, you might be able to get creative and try stuff like “shaddap,” or “getouttahere.” 😉)
There isn't a hard and fast rule, and I don't think there should be. I feel like a lot of it is context. Also of course, word-wrangling over command is as much an established mini-game as wording a wish properly.
Since I was once allowed to get away with telling an evil bard "Stagedive!" (which can also be a noun), I try to be as lenient as I can. I'd probably allow it, but the bone of contention for me is that "Defenestrate" doesn't contain a subject. They can just defenestrate you and fulfill the command!
If I don't think the spellee would understand the word; I'd probably just make them lose a turn, staring like a confused dog at the caster. I do like the idea of randomly trying out different actions. The guard hears "defenestrate" and tries to pick up a book off a table, but the cleric goes: "Aaah! Ah-Ah-ah!" and points at the window, which the guard goes over to and starts closing the blinds, looking over earnestly all the while...
There isn't a hard and fast rule, and I don't think there should be. I feel like a lot of it is context. Also of course, word-wrangling over command is as much an established mini-game as wording a wish properly.
Since I was once allowed to get away with telling an evil bard "Stagedive!" (which can also be a noun), I try to be as lenient as I can. I'd probably allow it, but the bone of contention for me is that "Defenestrate" doesn't contain a subject. They can just defenestrate you and fulfill the command!
If I don't think the spellee would understand the word; I'd probably just make them lose a turn, staring like a confused dog at the caster. I do like the idea of randomly trying out different actions. The guard hears "defenestrate" and tries to pick up a book off a table, but the cleric goes: "Aaah! Ah-Ah-ah!" and points at the window, which the guard goes over to and starts closing the blinds, looking over earnestly all the while...
True, but what if the command was “autodefenestrate?”
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Anything is edible if you try hard enough!
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There isn't a hard and fast rule, and I don't think there should be. I feel like a lot of it is context. Also of course, word-wrangling over command is as much an established mini-game as wording a wish properly.
Since I was once allowed to get away with telling an evil bard "Stagedive!" (which can also be a noun), I try to be as lenient as I can. I'd probably allow it, but the bone of contention for me is that "Defenestrate" doesn't contain a subject. They can just defenestrate you and fulfill the command!
If I don't think the spellee would understand the word; I'd probably just make them lose a turn, staring like a confused dog at the caster. I do like the idea of randomly trying out different actions. The guard hears "defenestrate" and tries to pick up a book off a table, but the cleric goes: "Aaah! Ah-Ah-ah!" and points at the window, which the guard goes over to and starts closing the blinds, looking over earnestly all the while...
True, but what if the command was “autodefenestrate?”
Interestingly, according to the spell text, "You might issue a command other than one described here. If you do so, the GM determines how the target behaves. If the target can't follow your command, the spell ends."
As a DM, I would likely rule that, if the target doesn't know what the command means, it literally can't follow the command, and therefore the spell ends.
For something like "defenestrate," I would probably look at the INT and probable background of the guard, but I agree with Lyxen that a run-of-the-mill guard would probably not know what this means, but a well-bred palace guard might.
I also agree with the point that "defenestrate" does not have a subject, and kind of needs one. Otherwise the target would not understand the command even if it understood the word. It's like using the command, "Lift." Lift what?
Again, I would rule that if the target cannot understand the meaning of the command, then it cannot follow the command, and the spell ends.
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There isn't a hard and fast rule, and I don't think there should be. I feel like a lot of it is context. Also of course, word-wrangling over command is as much an established mini-game as wording a wish properly.
Since I was once allowed to get away with telling an evil bard "Stagedive!" (which can also be a noun), I try to be as lenient as I can. I'd probably allow it, but the bone of contention for me is that "Defenestrate" doesn't contain a subject. They can just defenestrate you and fulfill the command!
If I don't think the spellee would understand the word; I'd probably just make them lose a turn, staring like a confused dog at the caster. I do like the idea of randomly trying out different actions. The guard hears "defenestrate" and tries to pick up a book off a table, but the cleric goes: "Aaah! Ah-Ah-ah!" and points at the window, which the guard goes over to and starts closing the blinds, looking over earnestly all the while...
True, but what if the command was “autodefenestrate?”
Don't you mean selfdefenestrate?
Is that the right word? If so, yes, but I am pretty sure that autodefenestrate is a word. (I could be wrong)
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Anything is edible if you try hard enough!
I am a swimmer. If you see me running, you should run too, because it means something horrible is chasing me.
On a related note, if I remember right, in one of the few Critical Role episodes I'd watched, a character Commanded an Oni to "freeze." I was very disappointed in the DM for not having it respond with an immediate Cone of Cold, Frozone style.
I'm really lenient on Command as I think the intention of the spell is more in line with a single "military shouted command" than it is "find a creative way to use a single word to get a given effect". While RAW it says "one word command" there are only so many ways to communicate a useful command in one word. So I'm likely to allow "Run away" over "Run" or "Lift that" over "Lift". "Back up" is still short, clear, and more likely to come to the mind of a player (not a character) in a bind than "Retreat" would.
However, again, house ruling, anything that takes more than a knee jerk reaction to for someone to execute, is outside the limit of the spell. Thinking about the intention of the spell "bring me all of the first born children" is way way too complex. "Grab them!" with a clear gesture at who is one I'm cool with.
Unless there's something I'm missing in the form of an "advanced command" that this would work better for?
If this is just for homebrew? If so, maybe the homebrew ruling would be that if you want to give it more depth, you have to spend a higher-level spell slot?
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There isn't a hard and fast rule, and I don't think there should be. I feel like a lot of it is context. Also of course, word-wrangling over command is as much an established mini-game as wording a wish properly.
Since I was once allowed to get away with telling an evil bard "Stagedive!" (which can also be a noun), I try to be as lenient as I can. I'd probably allow it, but the bone of contention for me is that "Defenestrate" doesn't contain a subject. They can just defenestrate you and fulfill the command!
If I don't think the spellee would understand the word; I'd probably just make them lose a turn, staring like a confused dog at the caster. I do like the idea of randomly trying out different actions. The guard hears "defenestrate" and tries to pick up a book off a table, but the cleric goes: "Aaah! Ah-Ah-ah!" and points at the window, which the guard goes over to and starts closing the blinds, looking over earnestly all the while...
True, but what if the command was “autodefenestrate?”
Don't you mean selfdefenestrate?
Is that the right word? If so, yes, but I am pretty sure that autodefenestrate is a word. (I could be wrong)
Self-defenestrate is not a single word, any more than self-immolation or hunter-gatherer would be considered a single word. It is up to the DM to adjudicate this of course, but if I'm the DM, I'm going to rule against any "compound words" that are just multiple words with a hyphen. Otherwise you could claim something ridiculous like kill-your-master-right-now is a single word because you put dashes into it. Dashes don't turn 2 words into 1 word.
I look at it like this: if the players are just trying to use a single, extant, clever word to get Command to work, and the NPC would understand it, fine. If the are going to try to "game the system" by using hyphenated words like seek-and-destroy for a single command, then I am going to apply Scrabble-like rules: the word must be in the dictionary, and must be a single word, not a compound or hyphenated word, and must be in the vocabulary of the monster/NPC.
My view on this is "two can play at that game" -- I'll be lenient if the players are not trying to hyper-game the system. If they start trying to game the system, then I become a stickler.
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It's not a bad house rule, to be honest, it encourages creativity and gets rid of the language barrier (there are some languages in which it's harder to issue one word commands than english), but in your experience, does it not make it really powerful for a low level spell like this ?
So far not really but my experience with the spell is really limited.
In fact in most cases people use it for "Freeze". And ... hmm.. honestly I don't think I've ever had players use it as much more than an adhoc hold person. "Sleep" is problematic as you can't will yourself into a sleeping state (usually) and "go" is so open to interpretation that no one wants to risk it. "Drop" (does that mean go prone?) doesn't guarantee that they'll drop a weapon OR go prone.
Similarly "Sleep" the spell is 1st level and affects 5d8 HP worth of characters (so 20 hp on average) and takes them out of the fight completely.
I also tend not to play with hard core gamers who are pushing the envelop for what they can do or not do; for my tables, typically "a short shouted commanded like 'Flee' and 'Drop that'." tend not to be too over powered. I do know tables where that would have to be reigned in.
Yeah, I personally wouldn’t allow anything too outside the box: “autodefenestrate” is right out. It’s fine if the players say something outside of the list, but it has to be simple and in line with the existing options. I agree with Rorlins: it’s like a single military shouted command. So one word isn’t relevant, but it can’t be too unusual or specific.
(Edit: I think Suggestion is a better spell for more complex mind control.)
Yeah, I personally wouldn’t allow anything too outside the box: “autodefenestrate” is right out. It’s fine if the players say something outside of the list, but it has to be simple and in line with the existing options. I agree with Rorlins: it’s like a single military shouted command. So one word isn’t relevant, but it can’t be too unusual or specific.
(Edit: I think Suggestion is a better spell for more complex mind control.)
Whenever I hear the word "defenestrate" I just picture the guard starting to unbuckle his belt - but it would take longer than one round to remove the lower half of the armour.
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I'm curious as to how you interpret the "command" spell. The gist of it is that you say 1 word, and they will do what you said (providing it's not harmful to them). I am curious as to what people think would happen if you used technical language which most people don't know the meaning of. The spell says that if they don't understand the language you're speaking they can't do it, but how does this apply if they speak common, but perhaps wouldn't know the meaning of the word? people who speak common aren't walking dictionaries, after all.
For example, if I were to cast "Command" on a guard and say "Defenestrate!" (meaning to throw someone out of a window, or remove someone from power), would they do either of those things, or would they just say "eh?" - how would you rule it?
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Yep, your average medieval guard would probably misinterpret it badly, and poop their pants in compliance.
[Edit: defecate :)]
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I am actually loving the idea now of the guards being incredibly confused but unable to not obey just because they don't know the meaning of the word, so they do whatever they think it could mean. If you cast it on several, I love the idea that one might lie down, another might try to do a handstand, and the third might start taking off their clothes!
Thanks for the replies!
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Funnily enough, “defenestrate” is my favorite word. It comes from the Latin (and Italian), “de finestra,” meaning “from a window.” (Much like the word “delivery” is from the phrase “de livery,” meaning “brought by a livery service.”) By the way, objects can be defenestrated just like people.
I would base it off of the target’s Intelligence and occupation. For example, an Int 10 commoner would likely only know technical jargon related to their livelihood, while I would expect an Int 18 abjurer would be rather erudite and likely have an extensive vocabulary.
IMO, the most commonly useful words to use for command are common words like “sit,” “stop,” “wait,” and “run.” (Also, depending on how narrowly or liberally your DM chooses to interpret and apply the concept of a single word, you might be able to get creative and try stuff like “shaddap,” or “getouttahere.” 😉)
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There isn't a hard and fast rule, and I don't think there should be. I feel like a lot of it is context. Also of course, word-wrangling over command is as much an established mini-game as wording a wish properly.
Since I was once allowed to get away with telling an evil bard "Stagedive!" (which can also be a noun), I try to be as lenient as I can. I'd probably allow it, but the bone of contention for me is that "Defenestrate" doesn't contain a subject. They can just defenestrate you and fulfill the command!
If I don't think the spellee would understand the word; I'd probably just make them lose a turn, staring like a confused dog at the caster. I do like the idea of randomly trying out different actions. The guard hears "defenestrate" and tries to pick up a book off a table, but the cleric goes: "Aaah! Ah-Ah-ah!" and points at the window, which the guard goes over to and starts closing the blinds, looking over earnestly all the while...
True, but what if the command was “autodefenestrate?”
Anything is edible if you try hard enough!
I am a swimmer. If you see me running, you should run too, because it means something horrible is chasing me.
Don't you mean selfdefenestrate?
Interestingly, according to the spell text, "You might issue a command other than one described here. If you do so, the GM determines how the target behaves. If the target can't follow your command, the spell ends."
As a DM, I would likely rule that, if the target doesn't know what the command means, it literally can't follow the command, and therefore the spell ends.
For something like "defenestrate," I would probably look at the INT and probable background of the guard, but I agree with Lyxen that a run-of-the-mill guard would probably not know what this means, but a well-bred palace guard might.
I also agree with the point that "defenestrate" does not have a subject, and kind of needs one. Otherwise the target would not understand the command even if it understood the word. It's like using the command, "Lift." Lift what?
Again, I would rule that if the target cannot understand the meaning of the command, then it cannot follow the command, and the spell ends.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Is that the right word? If so, yes, but I am pretty sure that autodefenestrate is a word. (I could be wrong)
Anything is edible if you try hard enough!
I am a swimmer. If you see me running, you should run too, because it means something horrible is chasing me.
On a related note, if I remember right, in one of the few Critical Role episodes I'd watched, a character Commanded an Oni to "freeze." I was very disappointed in the DM for not having it respond with an immediate Cone of Cold, Frozone style.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I'm really lenient on Command as I think the intention of the spell is more in line with a single "military shouted command" than it is "find a creative way to use a single word to get a given effect". While RAW it says "one word command" there are only so many ways to communicate a useful command in one word. So I'm likely to allow "Run away" over "Run" or "Lift that" over "Lift". "Back up" is still short, clear, and more likely to come to the mind of a player (not a character) in a bind than "Retreat" would.
However, again, house ruling, anything that takes more than a knee jerk reaction to for someone to execute, is outside the limit of the spell. Thinking about the intention of the spell "bring me all of the first born children" is way way too complex. "Grab them!" with a clear gesture at who is one I'm cool with.
Unless there's something I'm missing in the form of an "advanced command" that this would work better for?
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If this is just for homebrew? If so, maybe the homebrew ruling would be that if you want to give it more depth, you have to spend a higher-level spell slot?
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Autodefenestrate or self-defenestrate work.
I have a weird sense of humor.
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"Autodefenestrate" appears to be a word.
Self-defenestrate is not a single word, any more than self-immolation or hunter-gatherer would be considered a single word. It is up to the DM to adjudicate this of course, but if I'm the DM, I'm going to rule against any "compound words" that are just multiple words with a hyphen. Otherwise you could claim something ridiculous like kill-your-master-right-now is a single word because you put dashes into it. Dashes don't turn 2 words into 1 word.
I look at it like this: if the players are just trying to use a single, extant, clever word to get Command to work, and the NPC would understand it, fine. If the are going to try to "game the system" by using hyphenated words like seek-and-destroy for a single command, then I am going to apply Scrabble-like rules: the word must be in the dictionary, and must be a single word, not a compound or hyphenated word, and must be in the vocabulary of the monster/NPC.
My view on this is "two can play at that game" -- I'll be lenient if the players are not trying to hyper-game the system. If they start trying to game the system, then I become a stickler.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
So far not really but my experience with the spell is really limited.
In fact in most cases people use it for "Freeze". And ... hmm.. honestly I don't think I've ever had players use it as much more than an adhoc hold person. "Sleep" is problematic as you can't will yourself into a sleeping state (usually) and "go" is so open to interpretation that no one wants to risk it. "Drop" (does that mean go prone?) doesn't guarantee that they'll drop a weapon OR go prone.
Similarly "Sleep" the spell is 1st level and affects 5d8 HP worth of characters (so 20 hp on average) and takes them out of the fight completely.
I also tend not to play with hard core gamers who are pushing the envelop for what they can do or not do; for my tables, typically "a short shouted commanded like 'Flee' and 'Drop that'." tend not to be too over powered. I do know tables where that would have to be reigned in.
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Yeah, I personally wouldn’t allow anything too outside the box: “autodefenestrate” is right out. It’s fine if the players say something outside of the list, but it has to be simple and in line with the existing options. I agree with Rorlins: it’s like a single military shouted command. So one word isn’t relevant, but it can’t be too unusual or specific.
(Edit: I think Suggestion is a better spell for more complex mind control.)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Whenever I hear the word "defenestrate" I just picture the guard starting to unbuckle his belt - but it would take longer than one round to remove the lower half of the armour.