Essentially the title. My players keep putting little thought about their characters and than not remembering any of their abilities they chose. How can I help my group to truely care about their characters?
I don't think there's a way to make players care if they don't, but things you might consider to encourage them to care might be like, asking them questions about their characters outside of game, tailoring dilemmas to a specific character to see how they react, giving a character a rival npc to play off of-- maybe someone from their backstory that'll motivate them to figure out how their stuff works so they can best them-- and if all else fails, you can ask them. Just have a frank discussion with your players and ask them if they're having fun, if there's anything about the game that's preventing them from investing in it, and if not, could they please put in a bit more effort because you as the DM are putting a lot of work into it and right now it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
Have a talk with your players. If you want to play a super-serious, traditional, mechanics based game and they want to just goof around and roll some dice and eat snacks, then you are not in the same place goal-wise, and you need to work that out.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
1: Your first step should be going full Xanathar with their backstories. Have your PC's use the maximum number of possible events when rolling, and also develop NPC's that they have connections with. Who are these PCs? What made them go adventuring? Etc. Write up the baracks that the fighter used to train in. Develop the tyrant who hates your rogue.
2: Next, revisit Alignment, Personality traits, bonds, and flaws. One of the problems with how these traits are displayed in dnd is that Players usually only pick one from the background they chose. Have each player chose 5 personality traits, 4 ideals, 4 bonds, and 2 flaws from any background, with additional ones of their own choosing. Teach them what allignment is, and the difference between chaotic and lawful.
3: Now, you should look at the traits the players chose, and have them write that down. Ask them, why did YOUR PC choose to become this class/subclass. You may think it is cool, but what personal connection does the character contain. Flavor their spells, class features, etc. If your players enjoy any pop culture, maybe consider that to catch their attention.
4: Ask what they want from the game. Do they see themselves as the main characters? Or are they simply there along for the ride. Dnd isn't as fun if you aren't invested. Tell them that there is no shame in enjoying Dnd. No one is "too cool" for it. Maybe they are lackluster because they think that they aren't powerful. Discover everything outside the game that is creating reluctance, and try to get rid of it.
5: Finally, provide plenty of opportunities for the players to thrive. Grant inspiration. Let them describe their actions. Give them downtime to do what they want to do, and encourage them to make plans, team up, etc. Sometimes an amazing crit is all it takes to awaken someones passion for dnd. Other times, it is an emotional roleplay. Build team synchronicity. Build the foundations, then give them materials. The players will build their own road.
Some people enjoy playing the game like that. I personally don't get it and to me it looks like they are bored out of their minds but after talking to them they tell me that the game is the highlight of their week. I've had players just admit that they aren't very creative or that they don't have a good memory for this kind of thing so what might look like disinterest is actually just their personal quirks.
The real question that you have to ask is if these kinds of players are fun to play with. As the DM you are putting in huge amounts of time and effort compared to your players and part of their responsibility is to at least try to make the game fun and entertaining for the rest of the players, including the DM. If you feel like you aren't getting what you want out of your players and you aren't having fun, then you should find new players.
There is going to be a learning curve in regards to character abilities for some players, especially if they aren't very experienced with RPGs. Hell, even experienced players can forget what they are able to do sometimes, especially when trying out an unfamiliar class. That just takes time. Knowing what is on their character sheets will help you suggest options when they get stuck or forget something major like sneak attack damage or hunter's mark. And, it's okay to forget the rules sometimes. As long as everyone is having fun, mission accomplished!
I find that it is better to get the players to think about who their characters are, what their relationships with each other are like, and how they fit into the outside world. Everything else will come organically. Session zeroes are great for this conversation, but you can have it at any time. I make sure that each player either draws or writes a description of who they are playing and I will make tokens for them using their artwork or a picture they found. During play, I'll ask a player what their character would think or feel about a particular situation and let their answers help guide the story.
I have used a number of ideas from the book The Ultimate RPG Character Backstory Guide by James D'Amato for writing prompts, ice breakers, and between-sessions activities. I highly recommend it. Once the players start thinking of their characters as people instead of sheets of paper they will start paying more attention to what they can do during the session.
Have a talk with your players. If you want to play a super-serious, traditional, mechanics based game and they want to just goof around and roll some dice and eat snacks, then you are not in the same place goal-wise, and you need to work that out.
Right on. There’s nothing wrong with a little beer-and-pretzels D&D, in fact, I love that casual style. I’d even recommend leaning into it rather than pushing the players to be more “professional.” (But it might not hurt if everyone plays a fighter next time!)
There’s nothing wrong with a little beer-and-pretzels D&D, in fact, I love that casual style.
Nope, there is nothing wrong with it.
But not everyone wants to play that way. Me, for example. Or maybe more accurately, I could play that way in one campaign, as long as there was another more serious/traditional one to play in. And even then, I could only play in such a campaign. I would not be able to GM a game like this.
Know your strengths, people.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
There’s nothing wrong with a little beer-and-pretzels D&D, in fact, I love that casual style.
Nope, there is nothing wrong with it.
But not everyone wants to play that way. Me, for example. Or maybe more accurately, I could play that way in one campaign, as long as there was another more serious/traditional one to play in. And even then, I could only play in such a campaign. I would not be able to GM a game like this.
Know your strengths, people.
That's true. Me, I don't mind a casual tone, but when the roleplaying degrades into total comedy or real-world references, that's when I lose interest. Since I usually play with friends, we've had to learn to compromise so everyone enjoys themselves no matter what their style.
I dunno, ain’t no law against characters being funny. The most beer and pretzels player I know, literally drinks beer, is currently playing a character based on Sir Kay from Disney’s Sword in the Stone, does the voice and all. Cracks me up all the time. He RP’s in character, makes decisions based character separated from player, and doesn’t meta game. He is the most tactical, and one of the most rules knowledge in the group. And, in the kind of player directed campaign style I run, he’s done the most to drive the story. There’s nothing wrong with comedy itself, or beer & pretzels necessarily.
I play a couple of Bards, one in particular is an actor (instead of a singer) and does his magic and inspiration and stuff with references to, brief retellings of, or reciting passages from various “plays” he’s been in.
One time, he enthralled some Orcs by telling them the tale of the four Artificers who lived The City Five Boroughs. They specialized in saving its citizens from an inordinately high population of various incorporeal undead. For some reason those frightening apparitions seemed to infest the Five Boroughs, haunting its buildings and harassing its citizens. The play opened on a library where strange goings on began to happen. They heard word and rushed to investigate, this was before they had quite realized their true calling. They were only three at first, working as professors at the Arcane Academy….
And my PC was interjecting in-situ commentary to explain Human society and customs to the Orcs since, as a fellow non-human he understood how strange Humanity can seem. I got to about… the beginning of the third act when I dropped character looked at my DM and, with a mixture of incredulity and mild exasperation on my face asked “hasn’t it been a minute yet?!?”
To witch he replied “I wanted to see you keep going.”
So I kept going. Past the “If someone asks you if you’re a god, Ray, YOU SAY YES!” I got past the evil goddess summoning an avatar in the guise of a gargantuan “Confection Construct.” I through in some of that “racial commentary” explain the strange, cloud-like fluffy candy Humans make from a particular variety of the mallow plant that grows in marshes. He let me get all the way to crossing the streams before he interrupted me to narrate the last Orcs final words of “What’s… the end… of the story….” as he slid down the wall with a stab wound in his side. No rolls required, the rest of the party took out all but the boss Orc. (It was the dying inquiry from his underling that broke the spell apparently.)
I am telling you, I converted absolute everything from Ghostbusters to 100% fully D&D 5e compatible right down to the enchanted carriage. Was it a real world reference? Absolutely, 100%. Was it D&D? Absolutely, 100%. There’s also nothing really wrong with some IRL references either.
If the players keeps putting no effort about thinking about their characters, I suggest you should turn some of your NPCs into ""lazy puns"". Or better, what if...... the NPC who should give them the rewards, just goes to sleep, or carry the rewards to another city / village ???
It's called ""INSTA KARMA"" huh ??. I mean, you don't have to TPK the players, you only apply an ""small punishment"" over them.
If the players keeps putting no effort about thinking about their characters, I suggest you should turn some of your NPCs into ""lazy puns"". Or better, what if...... the NPC who should give them the rewards, just goes to sleep, or carry the rewards to another city / village ???
It's called ""INSTA KARMA"" huh ??. I mean, you don't have to TPK the players, you only apply an ""small punishment"" over them.
I strongly recommend against punishing players; it promotes an "us vs DM" way of thinking which has potential to make things less fun on all sides - anything bad that happens becomes your fault, as opposed to just something that happened.
For them being uninvested in their characters and not knowing their abilities, I recommend trying out a few things - mysteries, combats, travel, politics - and seeing what gets the most engagement from them. Don't let them chop & change characters, and have a session 0 to create characters, work together to decide how they got to where they are, make some backstory, and such. Ask each of them to run through their abilities with you - but it's actually to help them remember their abilities. Tell them they're going to be using this character for some time so they need to know them, and they need to enjoy using them.
Once you're in the game, if they haven't really invested in their characters stories, have people ask them about it in-game. Ask where they're from, what they do, etc. As soon as one person bites and starts to weave some story, give them some reward - have an NPC really engage with them, and offer them help they never would have received otherwise - perhaps some discount in a store from someone who used to live in the same village, or something like that. If a player makes a cool combo using their abilities, particularly things which are usually overlooked like languages etc., give them an inspiration dice for knowing their character inside and out.
Reward engagement, but don't punish people who just want to use >generic barbarian< to rage-murder bad guys!
People jump on me and say "there is no such thing as bad D&D players". Well folks, there is. If players don't care to commit to even minimum levels of knowing their characters, or the player does not have the ability to do such a thing, that is a bad player.
It is one thing to say "we are having a beer, pretzels, and laughs" game ("hack and slay" was the term in the beginning), but no one should expect a DM to put any effort in creating a great immersive setting for the players with such a mindset. As others have stated, the DM and the players have a far different view of what a game of D&D should be about, and the DM has to decide of he wants to find better players.
People jump on me and say "there is no such thing as bad D&D players". Well folks, there is. If players don't care to commit to even minimum levels of knowing their characters, or the player does not have the ability to do such a thing, that is a bad player.
It is one thing to say "we are having a beer, pretzels, and laughs" game ("hack and slay" was the term in the beginning), but no one should expect a DM to put any effort in creating a great immersive setting for the players with such a mindset. As others have stated, the DM and the players have a far different view of what a game of D&D should be about, and the DM has to decide of he wants to find better players.
If players do not care at all for their characters, the roleplaying, and the effort the DM is putting into the game, I put ARPG boardgames like Gloomhaven or Descent on the table and have a blast with that.
It is one thing to say "we are having a beer, pretzels, and laughs" game ("hack and slay" was the term in the beginning), but no one should expect a DM to put any effort in creating a great immersive setting for the players with such a mindset.
I think it goes without saying, if the players are not going to bother to take the game even a little bit seriously (enough to learn how the game plays and how their characters work), then they should certainly not expect the DM to do otherwise.
This is why I said, the whole table needs to have a sit-down and talk it out. And also why I said, don't expect me to DM something like this.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
It is one thing to say "we are having a beer, pretzels, and laughs" game ("hack and slay" was the term in the beginning), but no one should expect a DM to put any effort in creating a great immersive setting for the players with such a mindset.
I think it goes without saying, if the players are not going to bother to take the game even a little bit seriously (enough to learn how the game plays and how their characters work), then they should certainly not expect the DM to do otherwise.
This is why I said, the whole table needs to have a sit-down and talk it out. And also why I said, don't expect me to DM something like this.
Yup.
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Essentially the title. My players keep putting little thought about their characters and than not remembering any of their abilities they chose. How can I help my group to truely care about their characters?
Are they new to the game or to rpg's in general?
I don't think there's a way to make players care if they don't, but things you might consider to encourage them to care might be like, asking them questions about their characters outside of game, tailoring dilemmas to a specific character to see how they react, giving a character a rival npc to play off of-- maybe someone from their backstory that'll motivate them to figure out how their stuff works so they can best them-- and if all else fails, you can ask them. Just have a frank discussion with your players and ask them if they're having fun, if there's anything about the game that's preventing them from investing in it, and if not, could they please put in a bit more effort because you as the DM are putting a lot of work into it and right now it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
Have a talk with your players. If you want to play a super-serious, traditional, mechanics based game and they want to just goof around and roll some dice and eat snacks, then you are not in the same place goal-wise, and you need to work that out.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
1: Your first step should be going full Xanathar with their backstories. Have your PC's use the maximum number of possible events when rolling, and also develop NPC's that they have connections with. Who are these PCs? What made them go adventuring? Etc. Write up the baracks that the fighter used to train in. Develop the tyrant who hates your rogue.
2: Next, revisit Alignment, Personality traits, bonds, and flaws. One of the problems with how these traits are displayed in dnd is that Players usually only pick one from the background they chose. Have each player chose 5 personality traits, 4 ideals, 4 bonds, and 2 flaws from any background, with additional ones of their own choosing. Teach them what allignment is, and the difference between chaotic and lawful.
3: Now, you should look at the traits the players chose, and have them write that down. Ask them, why did YOUR PC choose to become this class/subclass. You may think it is cool, but what personal connection does the character contain. Flavor their spells, class features, etc. If your players enjoy any pop culture, maybe consider that to catch their attention.
4: Ask what they want from the game. Do they see themselves as the main characters? Or are they simply there along for the ride. Dnd isn't as fun if you aren't invested. Tell them that there is no shame in enjoying Dnd. No one is "too cool" for it. Maybe they are lackluster because they think that they aren't powerful. Discover everything outside the game that is creating reluctance, and try to get rid of it.
5: Finally, provide plenty of opportunities for the players to thrive. Grant inspiration. Let them describe their actions. Give them downtime to do what they want to do, and encourage them to make plans, team up, etc. Sometimes an amazing crit is all it takes to awaken someones passion for dnd. Other times, it is an emotional roleplay. Build team synchronicity. Build the foundations, then give them materials. The players will build their own road.
My only good homebrews: Races, Subclasses.
An aspiring DM and Homebrewer. Ask me if you need anything.
Are you all having fun?
Some people enjoy playing the game like that. I personally don't get it and to me it looks like they are bored out of their minds but after talking to them they tell me that the game is the highlight of their week. I've had players just admit that they aren't very creative or that they don't have a good memory for this kind of thing so what might look like disinterest is actually just their personal quirks.
The real question that you have to ask is if these kinds of players are fun to play with. As the DM you are putting in huge amounts of time and effort compared to your players and part of their responsibility is to at least try to make the game fun and entertaining for the rest of the players, including the DM. If you feel like you aren't getting what you want out of your players and you aren't having fun, then you should find new players.
Thanks for all the help
There is going to be a learning curve in regards to character abilities for some players, especially if they aren't very experienced with RPGs. Hell, even experienced players can forget what they are able to do sometimes, especially when trying out an unfamiliar class. That just takes time. Knowing what is on their character sheets will help you suggest options when they get stuck or forget something major like sneak attack damage or hunter's mark. And, it's okay to forget the rules sometimes. As long as everyone is having fun, mission accomplished!
I find that it is better to get the players to think about who their characters are, what their relationships with each other are like, and how they fit into the outside world. Everything else will come organically. Session zeroes are great for this conversation, but you can have it at any time. I make sure that each player either draws or writes a description of who they are playing and I will make tokens for them using their artwork or a picture they found. During play, I'll ask a player what their character would think or feel about a particular situation and let their answers help guide the story.
I have used a number of ideas from the book The Ultimate RPG Character Backstory Guide by James D'Amato for writing prompts, ice breakers, and between-sessions activities. I highly recommend it. Once the players start thinking of their characters as people instead of sheets of paper they will start paying more attention to what they can do during the session.
Right on. There’s nothing wrong with a little beer-and-pretzels D&D, in fact, I love that casual style. I’d even recommend leaning into it rather than pushing the players to be more “professional.” (But it might not hurt if everyone plays a fighter next time!)
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
Nope, there is nothing wrong with it.
But not everyone wants to play that way. Me, for example. Or maybe more accurately, I could play that way in one campaign, as long as there was another more serious/traditional one to play in. And even then, I could only play in such a campaign. I would not be able to GM a game like this.
Know your strengths, people.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
That's true. Me, I don't mind a casual tone, but when the roleplaying degrades into total comedy or real-world references, that's when I lose interest. Since I usually play with friends, we've had to learn to compromise so everyone enjoys themselves no matter what their style.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
I dunno, ain’t no law against characters being funny. The most beer and pretzels player I know, literally drinks beer, is currently playing a character based on Sir Kay from Disney’s Sword in the Stone, does the voice and all. Cracks me up all the time. He RP’s in character, makes decisions based character separated from player, and doesn’t meta game. He is the most tactical, and one of the most rules knowledge in the group. And, in the kind of player directed campaign style I run, he’s done the most to drive the story. There’s nothing wrong with comedy itself, or beer & pretzels necessarily.
I play a couple of Bards, one in particular is an actor (instead of a singer) and does his magic and inspiration and stuff with references to, brief retellings of, or reciting passages from various “plays” he’s been in.
One time, he enthralled some Orcs by telling them the tale of the four Artificers who lived The City Five Boroughs. They specialized in saving its citizens from an inordinately high population of various incorporeal undead. For some reason those frightening apparitions seemed to infest the Five Boroughs, haunting its buildings and harassing its citizens.
The play opened on a library where strange goings on began to happen. They heard word and rushed to investigate, this was before they had quite realized their true calling. They were only three at first, working as professors at the Arcane Academy….
And my PC was interjecting in-situ commentary to explain Human society and customs to the Orcs since, as a fellow non-human he understood how strange Humanity can seem. I got to about… the beginning of the third act when I dropped character looked at my DM and, with a mixture of incredulity and mild exasperation on my face asked “hasn’t it been a minute yet?!?”
To witch he replied “I wanted to see you keep going.”
So I kept going. Past the “If someone asks you if you’re a god, Ray, YOU SAY YES!” I got past the evil goddess summoning an avatar in the guise of a gargantuan “Confection Construct.” I through in some of that “racial commentary” explain the strange, cloud-like fluffy candy Humans make from a particular variety of the mallow plant that grows in marshes. He let me get all the way to crossing the streams before he interrupted me to narrate the last Orcs final words of “What’s… the end… of the story….” as he slid down the wall with a stab wound in his side. No rolls required, the rest of the party took out all but the boss Orc. (It was the dying inquiry from his underling that broke the spell apparently.)
I am telling you, I converted absolute everything from Ghostbusters to 100% fully D&D 5e compatible right down to the enchanted carriage. Was it a real world reference? Absolutely, 100%. Was it D&D? Absolutely, 100%. There’s also nothing really wrong with some IRL references either.
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If the players keeps putting no effort about thinking about their characters, I suggest you should turn some of your NPCs into ""lazy puns"". Or better, what if...... the NPC who should give them the rewards, just goes to sleep, or carry the rewards to another city / village ???
It's called ""INSTA KARMA"" huh ??. I mean, you don't have to TPK the players, you only apply an ""small punishment"" over them.
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
I strongly recommend against punishing players; it promotes an "us vs DM" way of thinking which has potential to make things less fun on all sides - anything bad that happens becomes your fault, as opposed to just something that happened.
For them being uninvested in their characters and not knowing their abilities, I recommend trying out a few things - mysteries, combats, travel, politics - and seeing what gets the most engagement from them. Don't let them chop & change characters, and have a session 0 to create characters, work together to decide how they got to where they are, make some backstory, and such. Ask each of them to run through their abilities with you - but it's actually to help them remember their abilities. Tell them they're going to be using this character for some time so they need to know them, and they need to enjoy using them.
Once you're in the game, if they haven't really invested in their characters stories, have people ask them about it in-game. Ask where they're from, what they do, etc. As soon as one person bites and starts to weave some story, give them some reward - have an NPC really engage with them, and offer them help they never would have received otherwise - perhaps some discount in a store from someone who used to live in the same village, or something like that. If a player makes a cool combo using their abilities, particularly things which are usually overlooked like languages etc., give them an inspiration dice for knowing their character inside and out.
Reward engagement, but don't punish people who just want to use >generic barbarian< to rage-murder bad guys!
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
People jump on me and say "there is no such thing as bad D&D players". Well folks, there is. If players don't care to commit to even minimum levels of knowing their characters, or the player does not have the ability to do such a thing, that is a bad player.
It is one thing to say "we are having a beer, pretzels, and laughs" game ("hack and slay" was the term in the beginning), but no one should expect a DM to put any effort in creating a great immersive setting for the players with such a mindset. As others have stated, the DM and the players have a far different view of what a game of D&D should be about, and the DM has to decide of he wants to find better players.
I'm with you, bro ....
My Ready-to-rock&roll chars:
Dertinus Tristany // Amilcar Barca // Vicenç Sacrarius // Oriol Deulofeu // Grovtuk
If players do not care at all for their characters, the roleplaying, and the effort the DM is putting into the game, I put ARPG boardgames like Gloomhaven or Descent on the table and have a blast with that.
No need for DMing there.
I think it goes without saying, if the players are not going to bother to take the game even a little bit seriously (enough to learn how the game plays and how their characters work), then they should certainly not expect the DM to do otherwise.
This is why I said, the whole table needs to have a sit-down and talk it out. And also why I said, don't expect me to DM something like this.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Yup.