Would you allow PC's to be under 18 years old (or their racial equivalent, such as 100ish for elves)
If yes, where would you draw the line? Min 16? 15 14?13?
For example, a 15 year old human wizard who just graduated magic/medical school after 5 years in study? (int 18, wis 6) (my most recently created PC for if l ever get to play)
I think it depends on the tone of your campaign, and players in the group. If your 8 year old nephew wants to play an 8 year old wizard, it's probably kosher. Other situations may be less appropriate. Remember, everyone at the table should be comfortable. If the character being a teenager (or younger) is making ANYONE, including you, uncomfortable, it's gotta go.
I'd allow however young the player is comfortable playing as. But I'd also feel like I'd be a bit more demanding of the characters' backstory to justify why they're adventuring at such a young age. I'm one of those DM's who feels like players can do whatever they want, but only if they can justify it and it doesn't give them unfair advantages.
It often depends on the theme of the game and the composition of the group, if all of the other characters are much older then I might question why they're dragging around a teen or child... sometimes a couple of players come up with a parent & child backstory which can work well to throw a bit of a protective dynamic into the party.
The races for the characters also is sometimes a factor that I'd consider, for some it's not too uncommon for them to go out into the wild and go on adventures from a young age.
My typical stance on a player wanting to roleplay as a much younger character is that I'm fine with it as long as they roleplay it in a reasonable way, they can provide a good reason for their character adventuring with a bunch of adult strangers and the rest of the players are also happy with the concept - if even a single player isn't comfortable with the idea, I will discuss alternative concepts with the players to make sure everyone is happy.
In one of the campaigns I played in, there was a 12yr old elf wizard. The character was a prodigy- very smart for her age. However, she was also extremely impulsive. And then she got a wand of wonder at first level. (Supposed to break, but cleric cast mending- caves of chaos module) Hilarious. Especially when she petrified herself with said wand.
It opened up a lot of great roleplaying for all characters involved. The DM loved having patronizing NPCs who asked if she was old enough to be allowed in a tavern, or wondered if she was someone's kid tagging along. And the players loved reacting to all her antics.
In 2nd edition when I started, the minimum age for a human adventurer was 16 if you rolled randomly for age. So that’s what I still use as the age of majority. Besides, IMO, if you are old enough to be legally responsible for a 2,000+ Lb self propelled battering ram capable of speeds in excess of 100 mi/hr, your old enough to be responsible for any other weapon.
Historically speaking, that’s still a fairly conservative “age of majority.” Juliet was just shy of 14, and her Romeo was likely no older than 15. They were considered adults old enough to marry.
This kind of gets at another recent thread about when would D&D be if it were in the real world. Underage is very much a function of the society in which a person lives, and the time period. In a time where the average life expectancy is 30, then a 15-year-old is not underaged at all. But in a modern society in the developed world, yes, 15 would be underage. Even in the world today, there are places where 15-year-olds are on their own, and places where they are in high school and barely able to function. So, the issue is really going to be what kind of world the character is playing in.
Personally, I'd be fine with DM'ing a player who had a younger teen character like Doogie Howser in the OP. Though for me, I would never want to go through puberty again, even if it was on behalf of a fictional character. Heck, I barely even like playing 20-somethings anymore. Too much drama.
Years ago ran a really fun game, 13-15 year old characters (or equivalent), ran from levels 1-15 by the end characters where 17-19, roleplayed by late 20’s early 30 year olds who caught the teenage angst, the joys of being awkward with the opposite sex, problems with parents and all the other things that are challenges at that age while also trying to stop an evil overlord destroy the world :)
"Age" is less important than the developmental stage that it signifies. The question should be, "Would you allow PCs to be children?"
Most humanoid races either have normal "human" life spans or longer, however, some races, like Kobolds, reach adulthood by the age of 6. I have absolutely no problem with someone playing a 5 or 6 year old kobold, because that represents a "mature" creature.
"Teenagers" are a popular age group in media, and serve as inspiration for all sorts of social drama.
"Children" PCs are off-limits for my tables, unless the player actually is a child, or the campaign is respectfully built around it as a central theme.
Chris Perkin's briefly played an 11 day old Kobold as a guest spot on Critical Role. That was so short lived, there wasn't any time for real controversy.
A fantasy setting where there are no aging effects makes it so that there's little difference about a character's real age, and it's more about mental maturity. I'm sure we've all met full grown adults who were childish. I figure long lived races like Elves physically mature at the same rate that Humans do, and would reach full adult size at 18 or so, and then their body stops aging. It takes 100 years before elves consider them adults, but that's kind of a social convention. You could play an Elf in my game who was 18, but I'd expect Elves would still treat them like children, while if they roleplay as being mature, Humans would see them as adults.
I have a Half-Elf who is 14. Half-Elves age just a little slower than Humans, so she's very young and that's how I roleplay her. She's a sweet matured innocent and she's a little naive. She's a Warlock, and I think it's grand fun to have a Fiend as her patron trying to lead her down the path of corruption.
It's a trope to expect a Wizard to be older, and subverting tropes is a lot of fun sometimes. Imagine how young a Sorcerer could be. They'd probably get their powers at puberty and start adventuring just after that.
Let people pick their age, and if they don't roleplay it, who cares? It's not like it makes any difference so far as the game mechanics go, and it really only would matter in games that were very serious and trying to be "realistic" which I frankly find kind of silly in a fantasy game. Save that kind of thing for those "Gritty Realism" games and outside of that, have fun with it.
Let's also keep in mind in Forgotten Realms lore, at least, and it seems to parallel other WotC D&D worlds, elvish childhood is very different from those of other mortal species, a sorta "dream time" where they would not be in position to adventure. Of course in a DMs world, Elves may just have really long childhoods.
As for whether I'd entertain the idea of a child/adolsecent character at my table, I'll say that the children who play at my tables never want to do that. I haven't had any of my adult players ask, but I'd be open to it. I could easily see a below age of majority rogue (read Dickens). I could see a Barbarian or outlander sort of like the Feral Kid or the society of Kids from the original Mad Max movies, maybe rangers or fighters. Harry Potterverse gives precedent for immature spell casters. The non lampoon iterations of Teen Titans gives some idea of how not quite adult adventurers could be played ... though some storylines attached to those heroes are also things I wouldn't have at my table (Deathstroke). So "childish characters" are ok, ironically, if the player has sufficient maturity in their motivation to play a youth.
EDIT: Just adding the Shazam movie actually gives you a good sense of another child/hero character. And how a honest portrayal of child psychology (including complex feelings) could intersect with the equivalent of D&D high power levels. On the grittier side, Game of Thrones, Arya is like 11, Bram 10, and Sansa like 13 in the books at the start, they might have them a year or so older on the HBO show. The show goes a lot of places with all of them I wouldn't do in a game, but I wouldn't do a lot of that with adult PCs either, but the GoT characters also go to a lot of places I would, especially Arya's tutelage under the faceless. I could actually picture that character doing well in say Baldur's Gate or elsewhere on the Sword Coast.
as always depends on the table and the character there is really no right or wrong answer.
I've played a pair of 15 year olds in 2 diff campaigns, one was a warlock on the run from a type of inquisition, the other was a fighter that had to pick up the sword at 12 when the orcs came for war due to the horrific casualties her city suffered and when it was over in 3 years time the city was gone its survivors fleeing to a nearby kingdom, with nothing left she turned to what she learned and became an adventurer
I think a big part that needs to be answered is WHY is this younger person out adventuring? just being a prodigy wizard doesn't mean a 12 year old is gonna rush out into the woods to fight the horrors of the world, but someone on the run? someone with nothing to return to? someone forced out into the world? Those make more sense (at least to me)
I've played an underage elf, which was weird. Before they become adults, elves are physically fully grown, but remember past lives during their trances.
I think a big part that needs to be answered is WHY is this younger person out adventuring? just being a prodigy wizard doesn't mean a 12 year old is gonna rush out into the woods to fight the horrors of the world, but someone on the run? someone with nothing to return to? someone forced out into the world? Those make more sense (at least to me)
I mean, field trips....
But seriously, you are right, though pretty much adult reasons for adventuring port to child reasons just fine. Children are just more likely to be more chronologically "close" to the impetus for adventuring their biography than their older companions.
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There’s a 0% chance I’d allow it. Nothing under 18, mayyyybe 16.
In my experience, child characters end up one of three ways. They end up realistically traumatized, which is sad and unfun. They’re obnoxious anime Mary Sues, which is cringeworthy and unfun. Or they’re joke characters, which is annoying and unfun.
And in any of those three situations, they leave the other players constantly avoiding the issue of “Why don’t we just be responsible and leave Little Timmy at an orphanage?” Plus, there’s nothing less fun than killing off a child, which leaves the DM either playing favorites or totally removing the stakes of combat for everyone.
Arya Stark is a great example that can be used of a child character forced to adventure, there is loads of young fiction with children and early teen hero’s and heroines, Percy Jackson is 12 when he finds out he is the son of a god.
You are inhabiting a world where people die violent deaths all the time, children will grow up quicker then modern society because violence happens around them. A sorceror might be forced out to the wilderness as an 8 yo because her magic is not understood, a barbarian tribe will expect children to fight, possibly to the death to prove themselves worthy.
The how and why are easy, then it’s just about how you roleplay it and there it is down to the player maturity and experience exactly the same argument I make when asked about players role playing the opposite sex, or a straight person roleplaying a gender fluid character, does that player have the experience and maturity to make it fun without becoming a caricature or offensive, or a distraction from the game. If the answer is yes then go ahead.
I played in a Curse of Strahd campaign where someone played a 15 year old Fighter. He roleplayed it as a warrior prodigy based on a character from The Left Hand of God, and it didn't cause any problems.
It's all dependent on the campaign, and the party of adventurers. It would be very difficult to RP a responsible adult character who was travelling around with a 12 year old in a game designed for adult play, but I can entirely imagine a party of young teenagers who are thrown into adventure. I think you'd need a DM willing to treat the game as being a kids' TV show, which would be fine for a group of younger players.
One of the most difficult parts is that the NPCs in the world will never take a party of youngsters seriously.
Arya Stark is a great example that can be used of a child character forced to adventure, there is loads of young fiction with children and early teen hero’s and heroines, Percy Jackson is 12 when he finds out he is the son of a god.
You are inhabiting a world where people die violent deaths all the time, children will grow up quicker then modern society because violence happens around them. A sorceror might be forced out to the wilderness as an 8 yo because her magic is not understood, a barbarian tribe will expect children to fight, possibly to the death to prove themselves worthy.
It's very easy to imagine why a child might be an adventurer, the more difficult question is whether you want to include violence against children in your role-playing game.
I don't know that I would allow anyone who actively roleplayed their character as a child play in my game, no matter what age they wrote down on their character sheet. It's kind of like Naivara said. They must be looking for abuse or trying to use it to their advantage. Playing a very young, possibly under-age by whatever standard you judge that by, character is the same thing. It they play as an adult, I don't see that I care what the number they have written on their sheet is.
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Would you allow PC's to be under 18 years old (or their racial equivalent, such as 100ish for elves)
If yes, where would you draw the line? Min 16? 15 14?13?
For example, a 15 year old human wizard who just graduated magic/medical school after 5 years in study? (int 18, wis 6) (my most recently created PC for if l ever get to play)
I think it depends on the tone of your campaign, and players in the group. If your 8 year old nephew wants to play an 8 year old wizard, it's probably kosher. Other situations may be less appropriate. Remember, everyone at the table should be comfortable. If the character being a teenager (or younger) is making ANYONE, including you, uncomfortable, it's gotta go.
I'd allow however young the player is comfortable playing as. But I'd also feel like I'd be a bit more demanding of the characters' backstory to justify why they're adventuring at such a young age. I'm one of those DM's who feels like players can do whatever they want, but only if they can justify it and it doesn't give them unfair advantages.
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It often depends on the theme of the game and the composition of the group, if all of the other characters are much older then I might question why they're dragging around a teen or child... sometimes a couple of players come up with a parent & child backstory which can work well to throw a bit of a protective dynamic into the party.
The races for the characters also is sometimes a factor that I'd consider, for some it's not too uncommon for them to go out into the wild and go on adventures from a young age.
My typical stance on a player wanting to roleplay as a much younger character is that I'm fine with it as long as they roleplay it in a reasonable way, they can provide a good reason for their character adventuring with a bunch of adult strangers and the rest of the players are also happy with the concept - if even a single player isn't comfortable with the idea, I will discuss alternative concepts with the players to make sure everyone is happy.
In one of the campaigns I played in, there was a 12yr old elf wizard. The character was a prodigy- very smart for her age. However, she was also extremely impulsive. And then she got a wand of wonder at first level. (Supposed to break, but cleric cast mending- caves of chaos module) Hilarious. Especially when she petrified herself with said wand.
It opened up a lot of great roleplaying for all characters involved. The DM loved having patronizing NPCs who asked if she was old enough to be allowed in a tavern, or wondered if she was someone's kid tagging along. And the players loved reacting to all her antics.
I would say totally go for it!
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In 2nd edition when I started, the minimum age for a human adventurer was 16 if you rolled randomly for age. So that’s what I still use as the age of majority. Besides, IMO, if you are old enough to be legally responsible for a 2,000+ Lb self propelled battering ram capable of speeds in excess of 100 mi/hr, your old enough to be responsible for any other weapon.
Historically speaking, that’s still a fairly conservative “age of majority.” Juliet was just shy of 14, and her Romeo was likely no older than 15. They were considered adults old enough to marry.
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This kind of gets at another recent thread about when would D&D be if it were in the real world. Underage is very much a function of the society in which a person lives, and the time period. In a time where the average life expectancy is 30, then a 15-year-old is not underaged at all. But in a modern society in the developed world, yes, 15 would be underage. Even in the world today, there are places where 15-year-olds are on their own, and places where they are in high school and barely able to function. So, the issue is really going to be what kind of world the character is playing in.
Personally, I'd be fine with DM'ing a player who had a younger teen character like Doogie Howser in the OP. Though for me, I would never want to go through puberty again, even if it was on behalf of a fictional character. Heck, I barely even like playing 20-somethings anymore. Too much drama.
Years ago ran a really fun game, 13-15 year old characters (or equivalent), ran from levels 1-15 by the end characters where 17-19, roleplayed by late 20’s early 30 year olds who caught the teenage angst, the joys of being awkward with the opposite sex, problems with parents and all the other things that are challenges at that age while also trying to stop an evil overlord destroy the world :)
"Age" is less important than the developmental stage that it signifies. The question should be, "Would you allow PCs to be children?"
Most humanoid races either have normal "human" life spans or longer, however, some races, like Kobolds, reach adulthood by the age of 6. I have absolutely no problem with someone playing a 5 or 6 year old kobold, because that represents a "mature" creature.
"Teenagers" are a popular age group in media, and serve as inspiration for all sorts of social drama.
"Children" PCs are off-limits for my tables, unless the player actually is a child, or the campaign is respectfully built around it as a central theme.
Chris Perkin's briefly played an 11 day old Kobold as a guest spot on Critical Role. That was so short lived, there wasn't any time for real controversy.
A fantasy setting where there are no aging effects makes it so that there's little difference about a character's real age, and it's more about mental maturity. I'm sure we've all met full grown adults who were childish. I figure long lived races like Elves physically mature at the same rate that Humans do, and would reach full adult size at 18 or so, and then their body stops aging. It takes 100 years before elves consider them adults, but that's kind of a social convention. You could play an Elf in my game who was 18, but I'd expect Elves would still treat them like children, while if they roleplay as being mature, Humans would see them as adults.
I have a Half-Elf who is 14. Half-Elves age just a little slower than Humans, so she's very young and that's how I roleplay her. She's a sweet matured innocent and she's a little naive. She's a Warlock, and I think it's grand fun to have a Fiend as her patron trying to lead her down the path of corruption.
It's a trope to expect a Wizard to be older, and subverting tropes is a lot of fun sometimes. Imagine how young a Sorcerer could be. They'd probably get their powers at puberty and start adventuring just after that.
Let people pick their age, and if they don't roleplay it, who cares? It's not like it makes any difference so far as the game mechanics go, and it really only would matter in games that were very serious and trying to be "realistic" which I frankly find kind of silly in a fantasy game. Save that kind of thing for those "Gritty Realism" games and outside of that, have fun with it.
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Let's also keep in mind in Forgotten Realms lore, at least, and it seems to parallel other WotC D&D worlds, elvish childhood is very different from those of other mortal species, a sorta "dream time" where they would not be in position to adventure. Of course in a DMs world, Elves may just have really long childhoods.
As for whether I'd entertain the idea of a child/adolsecent character at my table, I'll say that the children who play at my tables never want to do that. I haven't had any of my adult players ask, but I'd be open to it. I could easily see a below age of majority rogue (read Dickens). I could see a Barbarian or outlander sort of like the Feral Kid or the society of Kids from the original Mad Max movies, maybe rangers or fighters. Harry Potterverse gives precedent for immature spell casters. The non lampoon iterations of Teen Titans gives some idea of how not quite adult adventurers could be played ... though some storylines attached to those heroes are also things I wouldn't have at my table (Deathstroke). So "childish characters" are ok, ironically, if the player has sufficient maturity in their motivation to play a youth.
EDIT: Just adding the Shazam movie actually gives you a good sense of another child/hero character. And how a honest portrayal of child psychology (including complex feelings) could intersect with the equivalent of D&D high power levels. On the grittier side, Game of Thrones, Arya is like 11, Bram 10, and Sansa like 13 in the books at the start, they might have them a year or so older on the HBO show. The show goes a lot of places with all of them I wouldn't do in a game, but I wouldn't do a lot of that with adult PCs either, but the GoT characters also go to a lot of places I would, especially Arya's tutelage under the faceless. I could actually picture that character doing well in say Baldur's Gate or elsewhere on the Sword Coast.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Me? Nope. Child adventurers (under say 15-16) is a squicky zone where I don't want my games to go.
as always depends on the table and the character there is really no right or wrong answer.
I've played a pair of 15 year olds in 2 diff campaigns, one was a warlock on the run from a type of inquisition, the other was a fighter that had to pick up the sword at 12 when the orcs came for war due to the horrific casualties her city suffered and when it was over in 3 years time the city was gone its survivors fleeing to a nearby kingdom, with nothing left she turned to what she learned and became an adventurer
I think a big part that needs to be answered is WHY is this younger person out adventuring? just being a prodigy wizard doesn't mean a 12 year old is gonna rush out into the woods to fight the horrors of the world, but someone on the run? someone with nothing to return to? someone forced out into the world? Those make more sense (at least to me)
I've played an underage elf, which was weird. Before they become adults, elves are physically fully grown, but remember past lives during their trances.
I mean, field trips....
But seriously, you are right, though pretty much adult reasons for adventuring port to child reasons just fine. Children are just more likely to be more chronologically "close" to the impetus for adventuring their biography than their older companions.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
There’s a 0% chance I’d allow it. Nothing under 18, mayyyybe 16.
In my experience, child characters end up one of three ways. They end up realistically traumatized, which is sad and unfun. They’re obnoxious anime Mary Sues, which is cringeworthy and unfun. Or they’re joke characters, which is annoying and unfun.
And in any of those three situations, they leave the other players constantly avoiding the issue of “Why don’t we just be responsible and leave Little Timmy at an orphanage?” Plus, there’s nothing less fun than killing off a child, which leaves the DM either playing favorites or totally removing the stakes of combat for everyone.
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Arya Stark is a great example that can be used of a child character forced to adventure, there is loads of young fiction with children and early teen hero’s and heroines, Percy Jackson is 12 when he finds out he is the son of a god.
You are inhabiting a world where people die violent deaths all the time, children will grow up quicker then modern society because violence happens around them. A sorceror might be forced out to the wilderness as an 8 yo because her magic is not understood, a barbarian tribe will expect children to fight, possibly to the death to prove themselves worthy.
The how and why are easy, then it’s just about how you roleplay it and there it is down to the player maturity and experience exactly the same argument I make when asked about players role playing the opposite sex, or a straight person roleplaying a gender fluid character, does that player have the experience and maturity to make it fun without becoming a caricature or offensive, or a distraction from the game. If the answer is yes then go ahead.
I played in a Curse of Strahd campaign where someone played a 15 year old Fighter. He roleplayed it as a warrior prodigy based on a character from The Left Hand of God, and it didn't cause any problems.
It's all dependent on the campaign, and the party of adventurers. It would be very difficult to RP a responsible adult character who was travelling around with a 12 year old in a game designed for adult play, but I can entirely imagine a party of young teenagers who are thrown into adventure. I think you'd need a DM willing to treat the game as being a kids' TV show, which would be fine for a group of younger players.
One of the most difficult parts is that the NPCs in the world will never take a party of youngsters seriously.
For monstrous races:
It's very easy to imagine why a child might be an adventurer, the more difficult question is whether you want to include violence against children in your role-playing game.
I don't know that I would allow anyone who actively roleplayed their character as a child play in my game, no matter what age they wrote down on their character sheet. It's kind of like Naivara said. They must be looking for abuse or trying to use it to their advantage. Playing a very young, possibly under-age by whatever standard you judge that by, character is the same thing. It they play as an adult, I don't see that I care what the number they have written on their sheet is.
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