Normally, your proficiency in a skill applies only to a specific kind of ability check. Proficiency in Athletics, for example, usually applies to Strength checks. In some situations, though, your proficiency might reasonably apply to a different kind of check. In such cases, the DM might ask for a check using an unusual combination of ability and skill, or you might ask your DM if you can apply a proficiency to a different check.
What are your favorite non-standard combinations of skills and abilities? For example, one of my favorites is Charisma (Investigation) for when players are seeking local knowledge from townspeople. Like the standard Intelligence (Investigation), it represents the skill of assimilating information from multiple sources to make a deduction, but it also mixes in your ability to communicate and ask the right questions in a charismatic way that makes people inclined to help you.
I have lots of others, but I'd like to hear yours first.
Strength (Animal Handling) just seems to make a lot of sense... your mount was severely spooked and you try desperately to pull the reins or grab its head and pull it leftward before he runs off the cliff, or in just about any perilous stampede situation
I like (Strength) Intimidation and (Intelligence) Thieves’ Tools.
I don't know if this is non-standard, since I can't find anything in the rules that says what base ability score you're supposed to use with Thieves' Tools or any tool set. But yeah I usually use Dex, but I could see using Int if it's a particularly cleverly-designed lock.
Persuasion (Int) when the persuasion is based on reasoned arguement rather than appealing to emotions or or a simple "Do this"
Also Deception (Int) contested against Insight (Int) when the deception is elaborate and can be unraveled by recognizing self-contradictions or conflicts with facts the target knows.
Animal Handlig (Dex)
Nice! Yeah, sometimes you're trying to persuade the animal you're its friend, and sometimes you're just trying to anticipate which way it will juke.
Dexterity (Athletics): I allow it as an alternative to Strength (Athletics) for climbing. Some people use Dexterity (Acrobatics), since it's a standard pairing, but climbing isn't a stunt like swinging or flipping. IMO if you'd see it in gymnastics, it's acrobatics, but if you'd see it in any other sport, it's Athletics, even if it's Dex-based.
My Warlock once had to do a Charisma (Animal Handling) check to convince a pegasus to serve as my mount.
As a DM, I often call for Intelligence (Persuasion) checks for my table's artificer to be able to explain schematics of their inventions to NPCs.
Charisma (Sleight of Hand) checks are used for trying to look nonchalant while doing something that might get the attention of others (like gesturing towards someone in public or handing a weapon/magic item to an ally). Street magicians (not that they're all that common in my wide-spread magic worlds, but they have come into play) use it quite often, too, and Dexterity (Deception).
When trying to manipulate a mage hand or bigby's hand to catch something or manipulate the hand in a difficult manner requires a Sleight of Hand check, using the spellcaster's spellcasting ability score as the modifier that's added to the check.
Using a pair of Smith's or Tinker's Tools to make an item that requires fine motor control to make (such as one that requires a microscope or magnifying glass to see the components of the item) requires an artisan's tools check with Dexterity, in place of the normal Intelligence-based checks that they would make.
One time a player decided to learn as much about a rival NPC as they possibly could, even using the Detect Thoughts and Modify Memory to learn private and embarrassing information that they would have no way of knowing (from the NPCs viewpoint). When they finally decided to confront the NPC, they shared all of this knowledge and threatened them using an Intelligence (Intimidation) check. The check succeeded and the NPC nearly wet his pants, and he never bothered the party again.
Athletics (Con) is one of mine as well. Con gets no love from ability checks normally which is why I like this combo so much. It doesn't come up a whole lot though because usually con saving throws are more relevant.
I think Charisma (Sleight of Hand) should always be an optional alternative to Dexterity (Sleight of Hand). If you ask stage magicians, misdirection is at least as important as dexterity.
This would be convenient, as Sleight of Hand is often employed by the same kind of character who performs Deception checks, so it would be nice if it was the same base stat. Although often characters with high Cha have high Dex anyway, since Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Bards will want it for their AC. Paladins might not, but they're more likely to be too lawful for much Deception or Sleight of Hand.
Charisma (Athletics) or Charisma (Acrobatics). Show stunts to impress an audience.
I can't decide if it should be that or Strength (Performance) or Dexterity (Performance).
I think it should be up to the player. Some jugglers focus on impressive dexterity, others clown it up more to make you laugh. Both are equally likely to provide an entertaining performance.
I think almost any Ability (Skill) combination could work. Most of my top picks have been mentioned, but I’ll include them anyway for completeness sake.
Constitution (Athletics) for endurance/(Intimidation) to no-sell, show pain tolerance, or otherwise intimate by demonstrating how “tough” you are.
Dexterity (Athletics)
Intelligence (Anything). Even Intelligence (Athletics). Don’t believe me? Talk to a hardcore sports fan and let them infodump statistics and RAW and everything just like we do for this. (Performance)/(Sleight of Hand)/(Animal Handling)/(Nature)/(Medicine)/(Stealth)…. That’s why I don’t get it as a common dump stat.
Wisdom (Anything), but that really shouldn’t be a surprise.
Charisma (Acrobatics)/(Animal Handling)/(Religion)/(Sleight of Hand)
Certainly a lot work, and some you can imagine niche scenarios where they could work, but some would be a real stretch.
Charisma (Survival)?
Convincing urchins in an alleyway to show you the trail left behind by someone you're trying to catch.
Dexterity (History)?
Umm . . . your mind literally has muscles wrapped around your brain, and you have to grab the memories of an historical event in order to succeed at the check?
Or, you have a memory-extractor that you have to use fine-tuned movements to retrieve specific bits and pieces of information from in order to succeed at the check? (maybe as a sort of Mind-Flayer psionic technology?)
Constitution (Insight)?
Ever heard of the phrase "go with your gut?"
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Intelligence (Performance) for when one character tried to write his adventures into a storybook and get it published. Performance covers storytelling, but Intelligence was more appropriate for writing, I thought.
"Strength (Animal Handling) just seems to make a lot of sense... your mount was severely spooked and you try desperately to pull the reins or grab its head and pull it leftward before he runs off the cliff, or in just about any perilous stampede situation"
I think trying to use brute force to handle an animal isn't using the Animal Handling skill. No... that would just be a Strength check. It might make things worse. If a mount is already spooked, someone grabbing the reins hard enough to pull it, probably isn't the best idea.
That is why Animal Handing is wisdom. You need to be wise enough to know how to handle an spooked animal. I would allow Dex for Animal handling, and you could use that to know just how hard to pull the reins to handle a spooked animal, while speaking to it in a soothing tone of voice, like with a Pegaus, but you don't need the animal to understand what you say.
Think about Aragon, in Lord of the Rings, when he's dealing with the horse in the Two Towers movie. I'd say that might be what he did, while the other people there were trying to use Strength. Or maybe that was really just a normal check with the Wisdom based Animal Handling skill, because Aragon was very wise.
Some of the rest of the things people have suggested are weird, but seem all right to me. Fun thread.
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A lesser known rule in 5e is that skills are not limited to a particular kind of ability check.
VariantSkillswithDifferentAbilities
What are your favorite non-standard combinations of skills and abilities? For example, one of my favorites is Charisma (Investigation) for when players are seeking local knowledge from townspeople. Like the standard Intelligence (Investigation), it represents the skill of assimilating information from multiple sources to make a deduction, but it also mixes in your ability to communicate and ask the right questions in a charismatic way that makes people inclined to help you.
I have lots of others, but I'd like to hear yours first.
I like (Strength) Intimidation and (Intelligence) Thieves’ Tools.
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Strength (Animal Handling) just seems to make a lot of sense... your mount was severely spooked and you try desperately to pull the reins or grab its head and pull it leftward before he runs off the cliff, or in just about any perilous stampede situation
Boldly go
I don't know if this is non-standard, since I can't find anything in the rules that says what base ability score you're supposed to use with Thieves' Tools or any tool set. But yeah I usually use Dex, but I could see using Int if it's a particularly cleverly-designed lock.
Also Deception (Int) contested against Insight (Int) when the deception is elaborate and can be unraveled by recognizing self-contradictions or conflicts with facts the target knows.
Nice! Yeah, sometimes you're trying to persuade the animal you're its friend, and sometimes you're just trying to anticipate which way it will juke.
Dexterity (Athletics): I allow it as an alternative to Strength (Athletics) for climbing. Some people use Dexterity (Acrobatics), since it's a standard pairing, but climbing isn't a stunt like swinging or flipping. IMO if you'd see it in gymnastics, it's acrobatics, but if you'd see it in any other sport, it's Athletics, even if it's Dex-based.
Charisma (Athletics) or Charisma (Acrobatics). Show stunts to impress an audience.
Only spilt the party if you see something shiny.
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Intelligence (Sleight of Hand) for tying knots.
I can't decide if it should be that or Strength (Performance) or Dexterity (Performance).
My Warlock once had to do a Charisma (Animal Handling) check to convince a pegasus to serve as my mount.
As a DM, I often call for Intelligence (Persuasion) checks for my table's artificer to be able to explain schematics of their inventions to NPCs.
Charisma (Sleight of Hand) checks are used for trying to look nonchalant while doing something that might get the attention of others (like gesturing towards someone in public or handing a weapon/magic item to an ally). Street magicians (not that they're all that common in my wide-spread magic worlds, but they have come into play) use it quite often, too, and Dexterity (Deception).
When trying to manipulate a mage hand or bigby's hand to catch something or manipulate the hand in a difficult manner requires a Sleight of Hand check, using the spellcaster's spellcasting ability score as the modifier that's added to the check.
Using a pair of Smith's or Tinker's Tools to make an item that requires fine motor control to make (such as one that requires a microscope or magnifying glass to see the components of the item) requires an artisan's tools check with Dexterity, in place of the normal Intelligence-based checks that they would make.
One time a player decided to learn as much about a rival NPC as they possibly could, even using the Detect Thoughts and Modify Memory to learn private and embarrassing information that they would have no way of knowing (from the NPCs viewpoint). When they finally decided to confront the NPC, they shared all of this knowledge and threatened them using an Intelligence (Intimidation) check. The check succeeded and the NPC nearly wet his pants, and he never bothered the party again.
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Athletics (Con) is one of mine as well. Con gets no love from ability checks normally which is why I like this combo so much. It doesn't come up a whole lot though because usually con saving throws are more relevant.
I think Charisma (Sleight of Hand) should always be an optional alternative to Dexterity (Sleight of Hand). If you ask stage magicians, misdirection is at least as important as dexterity.
This would be convenient, as Sleight of Hand is often employed by the same kind of character who performs Deception checks, so it would be nice if it was the same base stat. Although often characters with high Cha have high Dex anyway, since Sorcerers, Warlocks, and Bards will want it for their AC. Paladins might not, but they're more likely to be too lawful for much Deception or Sleight of Hand.
I think it should be up to the player. Some jugglers focus on impressive dexterity, others clown it up more to make you laugh. Both are equally likely to provide an entertaining performance.
I think almost any Ability (Skill) combination could work. Most of my top picks have been mentioned, but I’ll include them anyway for completeness sake.
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Certainly a lot work, and some you can imagine niche scenarios where they could work, but some would be a real stretch.
Charisma (Survival)?
Dexterity (History)?
Constitution (Insight)?
I did say “almost anything.”
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Convincing urchins in an alleyway to show you the trail left behind by someone you're trying to catch.
Umm . . . your mind literally has muscles wrapped around your brain, and you have to grab the memories of an historical event in order to succeed at the check?
Or, you have a memory-extractor that you have to use fine-tuned movements to retrieve specific bits and pieces of information from in order to succeed at the check? (maybe as a sort of Mind-Flayer psionic technology?)
Ever heard of the phrase "go with your gut?"
Please check out my homebrew, I would appreciate feedback:
Spells, Monsters, Subclasses, Races, Arcknight Class, Occultist Class, World, Enigmatic Esoterica forms
Intelligence (Performance) for when one character tried to write his adventures into a storybook and get it published. Performance covers storytelling, but Intelligence was more appropriate for writing, I thought.
Wizard (Gandalf) of the Tolkien Club
"Strength (Animal Handling) just seems to make a lot of sense... your mount was severely spooked and you try desperately to pull the reins or grab its head and pull it leftward before he runs off the cliff, or in just about any perilous stampede situation"
I think trying to use brute force to handle an animal isn't using the Animal Handling skill. No... that would just be a Strength check. It might make things worse. If a mount is already spooked, someone grabbing the reins hard enough to pull it, probably isn't the best idea.
That is why Animal Handing is wisdom. You need to be wise enough to know how to handle an spooked animal. I would allow Dex for Animal handling, and you could use that to know just how hard to pull the reins to handle a spooked animal, while speaking to it in a soothing tone of voice, like with a Pegaus, but you don't need the animal to understand what you say.
Think about Aragon, in Lord of the Rings, when he's dealing with the horse in the Two Towers movie. I'd say that might be what he did, while the other people there were trying to use Strength. Or maybe that was really just a normal check with the Wisdom based Animal Handling skill, because Aragon was very wise.
Some of the rest of the things people have suggested are weird, but seem all right to me. Fun thread.
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