My players have a tendency to be pretty callous to the NPCs in my campaign.
Some examples of interactions:
One npc was a nice mom who used her lycanthropy to be a city's vigilante superhero. When the players caught her, they blackmailed her pretty quick, saying if she didn't help then they would report her to the guard since lycanthropy is, naturally, frowned upon. She worked with them in order to kill a vampire but the reason for the teamwork was because they threatened her (and by extension her werewolf husband and three werewolf children). I'd intended for her to help them but the blackmailing was definitely unexpected.
I introduced them to a nice unblackmail-able, stereotypical paladin sort. They investigated an illegal monster-fighting ring together but the players then murdered a potential suspect in broad daylight, on the city streets, before they had even talked to the suspect. The suspect in question was a chubby hen aarakocra, not the picture of threatening.. and they smeared her across the pavement. That soured that friendship.
They got arrested for murder and thrown in prison. We did a two-part prison escape and one of the npcs in the prison was a wizard possessing the warden's cat (the warden was an evil wizard and this cat-wizard was trying to steal a spell of their's). They did a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" kind of deal, but as soon as he got skittish about having to actually be seen with known murderers, they blackmailed him, telling him that they'd report him to the mage assembly for trying to steal a spell from another wizard. I don't even know if I can tell you how it got to that.. because he was being very helpful, but he drew the line at some point. Basically, I wanted him to be cowardly enough though that their victory in escape was wholeheartedly theirs and not just because they could bully a wizard.
Most recently, they travelled into a thieves guild lair and the patrol offered to bring them into the lair to meet their leader but only if they put blindfolds on for the trip. This was after the party had tripped a trap entering the guild's false treasure room, they'd marred the thieves' trust but I wanted to keep the option available still for them to get in nice with the guild's leader. They refused and blackmailed the patrol, saying if they didn't take them to their leader then they'd just go and report them to the city guard since they already knew the location of their hideout's entrance. At that point, the priority of the patrol was killing these rats.
And that last one is kind of the straw that breaks the camel's back, because at this point the party is holed up in a singular room with angry criminals entering. There's a chance they might all die, so I was beginning to consider "who would come and save them?" and the answer is literally... no one. They have no npc friends... If they aren't blackmailing npcs they're usually extorting them for quick cash/items or dropping contact with as soon as things go sour (ex, a pair of twins saved their lives once at the cost of one of the twins dying, and they just never talked to the remaining twin after that), etc.. If an NPC has nothing to offer, the players tend not to keep in contact with them (ex, their 10 year old son that the werewolf family took in after the group was arrested).
I am inclined to say I'm doing something wrong here.. Because to bring up the issue I half-jokingly said to one of the players "you've got to stop blackmailing people" but they responded earnestly with "what else were we supposed to do? Let the thieves blindfold us?" If they feel like that was the only option then I don't want to hold that against them.. I'm just really struggling to get them allies and buddies at this point. I genuinely do not know what to do.
tldr; My players have no NPC friends and made LOTS of enemies. Is there a good way to endear npcs to your players so they don't blackmail/extort them..? Are there any good tricks to making npcs undeniably friend-shaped for your players to scoop up??
Make them cute. I'm not kidding. I'm not saying make them all fluffy little puppies, because with the right acting a big burly man can be as cute as a ball of fuzz. You can try using funny voices, (kermit the frog is the canon voice for all Kuo Toa in my world, and my players love them) giving them weird eccentricities, (one of my NPCs is constantly perching in weird places and climbing around, even though she's this giant goliath) or making them just very... big. Not physically, but making them very over-exaggerated, because the small details will probably be lost on your PCs.
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"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
My players have a tendency to be pretty callous to the NPCs in my campaign.
Then the NPCs get callous back.
The party turns up at a temple looking for healing or resurrection magic? They get turned away. "We don't help murderers and blackmailers." The party goes to a crafter to get armour repaired, weapons fixed, whatever. They get told "no". The party goes to an inn. Outside the inn they see a wanted poster with their names and faces on it. If they go inside, the inkeeper does give them a room but later sends a runner to the town guard.
If the party kill the town guard then the mayor sends word to the local ruler, who sends better guards. If the party kills them then the ruler sends even better guards, maybe advertising for adventuring parties to kill the bandits. No matter how powerful the PCs are, there's always someone more powerful.
Now having a group of raiders might be what everyone at the table wants. In this case, let the players enjoy their characters being badass raiders. They might enjoy it when every town they visit, their wanted posters have a bigger gold value under them. :-)
Don't, however, remove the consequences. If the party acts like raiders then the world will treat them like raiders.
Also, bandits and raiders are not known for loyalty. If the PCs do kill their way to the top of the thieves guild or blackmail their way into political power, make it clear that every single person under them is looking at them with greedy, plotting eyes.
It sounds like your players want to treat the NPCs the way they do because it is fun for them. Making your NPCs cute, friendly or endearing isn't going to change the way they treat them. It might be time for an out-of-game conversation. Ask them why they continuously blackmail, extort and otherwise mistreat NPCs that are not necessarily bad guys. Use what they say to help you moving forward. If they want to be that kind of party, don't use friendly NPCs. Make sure they understand you believe there are consequences for their actions - positive and negative. If they are nice to an NPC maybe they get more info, treasure or a magic item. If they are not, they get put in jail, outnumbered or possibly the session ends in a TPK.
The other possibility is that they don't really know how to interact positively with the NPCs. In that case you can coach them.
I'm not sure the problem is you NPCs but rather the players. The two primary ingredients for a fun role-playing game are that the players need to be able to make choices and those choices need to have meaningful consequences. It sounds like you're delivering on those. I also agree that it might be time for an out of game conversation. What did the players want to get out of the game? What sort of game did they want to play and what reason do they have for adventuring together? Was it their intent to run a neutral/evil campaign? I would have this conversation before the thieves break down the door. If the players legitimately understood they were leaning in a less than good direction because thats what their characters would do (neutral/evil characters) then let me face the music. If any are left alive, the head of the thieves guild can enter along with some burly guards and offer the survivors a job doing some sufficiently nasty work assuming thats what the players want (and that you're willing to run). "I should have you killed but it seems you can hold your own in a fight so I might have use for you...yes." If this is a misunderstanding, make sure to explain to your players that while your world may be peopled by fantastical creatures the social mores of the society the PCs operate in are much the same as those of the real world. What are the consequences in real life of blackmailing someone? If you can come to an understanding, let the thieves mostly do their worst maybe killing several of the PCs, but before the parent of the 10 year old is about to die a pack of angry werewolves comes to the rescue of the remaining PCs. If you want to get creative role some characters for the werewolves and 10 year old. Have the PCs play those characters tracking down the PCs (with a suitable time limit for dramatic effect). Make the PCs walk a mile in the shoes of some of the people they've hurt. If they succeed in finding the PCs in time then werewolves come to the rescue, otherwise TPK. I'm sorry if this didn't address your original question but hopefully I've given you some good alternatives.
It sounds to me like you’re going to kill off the entire party. I would if I was you.
Woah, sport. Let's slow down here for a moment.
Let's try to look at this from the PC point of view, rather than the DM point of view in each of these cases. These players are not trying to mess up the game, they're playing it the way that they want to play their characters.
One npc was a nice mom who used her lycanthropy to be a city's vigilante superhero. When the players caught her, they blackmailed her pretty quick, saying if she didn't help then they would report her to the guard since lycanthropy is, naturally, frowned upon. She worked with them in order to kill a vampire but the reason for the teamwork was because they threatened her (and by extension her werewolf husband and three werewolf children). I'd intended for her to help them but the blackmailing was definitely unexpected.
This is a legitimate way to gain the assistance of an NPC to combat a greater evil. The PCs are gritty, hard-edged heroes who will use whatever methods they need in order to get the job done. They are professional killers. That's what all adventurers are when you boil it down. This idea of chivalric heroism is absolutely nonsense, and the "I'm so cute, I'm such a goof ball, I actually murder for money, but I'm such a sweet quirky character" is nonsense from a realism point of view. Not everyone has to play for realism, nor is it the right way, but nobody goes through what adventurers do without getting mentally hardened. If this is how they want to play the game, that's fine. For you, the DM, it doesn't matter if you liked your werewolf Avenger; I think this is you feeling bad that they were mean to your NPC. You can't be; as DM you don't get to have those feelings, you just run the world.
And that last one is kind of the straw that breaks the camel's back, because at this point the party is holed up in a singular room with angry criminals entering. There's a chance they might all die, so I was beginning to consider "who would come and save them?" and the answer is literally... no one. They have no npc friends... If they aren't blackmailing npcs they're usually extorting them for quick cash/items or dropping contact with as soon as things go sour (ex, a pair of twins saved their lives once at the cost of one of the twins dying, and they just never talked to the remaining twin after that), etc.. If an NPC has nothing to offer, the players tend not to keep in contact with them (ex, their 10 year old son that the werewolf family took in after the group was arrested).
Here you are only seeing the encounter from your own perspective - why should the PCs want to make NPC friends? You want them to. You want to run a campaign that has them making pals all over the world, and sure I can understand that's your vision. But the players don't want to be friends with your NPCs, and it kinda sounds you feel that this is somehow them rejecting you, a little bit.
These players don't want to play sociable, friendly types. They are killers (and edgelords, I expect). But that's fine, everyone's first character is an edgy killer with #darkpast. Players realise later on that the game is more fun when they play a more rounded character, but that's for them to discover.
I am inclined to say I'm doing something wrong here.. Because to bring up the issue I half-jokingly said to one of the players "you've got to stop blackmailing people" but they responded earnestly with "what else were we supposed to do? Let the thieves blindfold us?" If they feel like that was the only option then I don't want to hold that against them.. I'm just really struggling to get them allies and buddies at this point. I genuinely do not know what to do.
And this one is you the DM knowing what outcomes will be, and then offering the PCs a completely unreasonable option and then feeling aggrieved that they didn't take it.
Blindfolded? By a guild of thieves? Thieves are basically the worst people in society. They make a living through making the lives of ordinary people miserable. They make them feel afraid, make them feel violated. Thieves are dreadful, dangerous, and when they organise into a guild they are full of murderers to boot. Why would any sane person allow a thieves guild to blindfold them? Especially if they just caught you breaking into their hideout? It's a totally unfair expectation and you already mentioned that you are implementing this because you want to head to a plot point that you had pre-planned. I have never - and will never - play a character who would allow this. Every one of my characters would die first.
Look, maybe I'm being tough with you, but you're approaching this as "My players are playing the game wrong" and they're not. What you have is an overall clash of expectations about the game world.
I can see from what you write that you are aiming this game to be a bit more... cutesy than some games. You have:
a nice mom who is also a vigilante, with her good-aligned (?) lycanthrope family
helpful wizard thieves who they are meant to trust because he helped them (when the wizard was a sneak thief already??)
a thieves guild who actually won't kill you for breaking into their secret lair, they will honour their word
What's notable about this is... these characters are all criminals too. One of them is a freakin' werewolf? What happens if they help her and befriend her and then her kids go tear someone apart? The paladin is the only NPC you've mentioned that I might even want to befriend.
To me this is a bit of a Disneyland world, and as a player I'd be unable to believe that these shady characters are trustworthy. I mean "a nice mom" who claws people up? Eh? Are your players playing cheerful gnomes who love cotton candy, or are they playing dark-souled PTSD survivors because I think that you are playing Xena: Warrior Princess, where doing good and the power of friendship should overcome all, and the players are playing Game of Thrones and "the ends justify the means."
It may be that you and these players simply don't gel, but it sounds like you are having a great campaign! There is no requirement for the heroes to be liked, as long as they are following your adventure hooks that's all fine.
It may be worth sitting down and running session 0.5 and saying "Guys, I'm just going to point out that this constant blackmailing of every NPC you meet has me thinking that your characters don't want to be heroes. What do they actually want to do?" And then base the campaign off that from then on. Do not try to get into a "crime and punishment" scenario with them where you try to correct their behaviour in-game because everything they've done sounds totally legitimate. They just aren't roleplaying nice people.
Do not force a TPK over this. This situation comes down to:
Players activated a trap in an area you set for them
Players don't want to be blindfolded and taken against their will somewhere
They shouldn't have to be. Fighting their way out should be a legitimate option. If it wasn't a legit option, then you sent them into a death trap.
Threatening to blackmail an NPC doesn't mean that the NPC does what they are told. That is determined by the NPCs personality and goals. Nothing in any sourcebook says that an NPC *has* to be lesser in power than the PCs. The NPC is placed there to aid the party, provide information, or act as a MacGuffin that needs collecting or killing. The NPC needs to serve a purpose besides training dummy for your party. It seems that you are outlining player choice and behaviour that is being enabled in gameplay, save for maybe one or two fleeting instances with an upset Paladin-type.
There really needs to be a consensus reached at your table about what type of game you are willing to run, and what type of characters the players are trying to enjoy. It's clear that there is a disconnect there. You aren't having fun with this style of game, and that's fine, it's not for everyone. The same could be said of all friendly, loveable, cuddely-type NPCs not being fun at all tables. There has to be an agreement between you as the DM, and the players, as to what the collective version of "fun" looks like. You need to be able to voice your opinion just as equitably as your players do. Those opinions need to be accepted and respected on the opposite side of the perspective table equally.
If having an out-of-game conversation doesn't curb behaviour or doesn't reach a consensus, stop the game entirely.
No D&D is better than Bad D&D.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
It sounds to me like you’re going to kill off the entire party. I would if I was you.
Woah, sport. Let's slow down here for a moment.
Let's try to look at this from the PC point of view, rather than the DM point of view in each of these cases. These players are not trying to mess up the game, they're playing it the way that they want to play their characters.
One npc was a nice mom who used her lycanthropy to be a city's vigilante superhero. When the players caught her, they blackmailed her pretty quick, saying if she didn't help then they would report her to the guard since lycanthropy is, naturally, frowned upon. She worked with them in order to kill a vampire but the reason for the teamwork was because they threatened her (and by extension her werewolf husband and three werewolf children). I'd intended for her to help them but the blackmailing was definitely unexpected.
This is a legitimate way to gain the assistance of an NPC to combat a greater evil. The PCs are gritty, hard-edged heroes who will use whatever methods they need in order to get the job done. They are professional killers. That's what all adventurers are when you boil it down. This idea of chivalric heroism is absolutely nonsense, and the "I'm so cute, I'm such a goof ball, I actually murder for money, but I'm such a sweet quirky character" is nonsense from a realism point of view. Not everyone has to play for realism, nor is it the right way, but nobody goes through what adventurers do without getting mentally hardened. If this is how they want to play the game, that's fine. For you, the DM, it doesn't matter if you liked your werewolf Avenger; I think this is you feeling bad that they were mean to your NPC. You can't be; as DM you don't get to have those feelings, you just run the world.
And that last one is kind of the straw that breaks the camel's back, because at this point the party is holed up in a singular room with angry criminals entering. There's a chance they might all die, so I was beginning to consider "who would come and save them?" and the answer is literally... no one. They have no npc friends... If they aren't blackmailing npcs they're usually extorting them for quick cash/items or dropping contact with as soon as things go sour (ex, a pair of twins saved their lives once at the cost of one of the twins dying, and they just never talked to the remaining twin after that), etc.. If an NPC has nothing to offer, the players tend not to keep in contact with them (ex, their 10 year old son that the werewolf family took in after the group was arrested).
Here you are only seeing the encounter from your own perspective - why should the PCs want to make NPC friends? You want them to. You want to run a campaign that has them making pals all over the world, and sure I can understand that's your vision. But the players don't want to be friends with your NPCs, and it kinda sounds you feel that this is somehow them rejecting you, a little bit.
These players don't want to play sociable, friendly types. They are killers (and edgelords, I expect). But that's fine, everyone's first character is an edgy killer with #darkpast. Players realise later on that the game is more fun when they play a more rounded character, but that's for them to discover.
I am inclined to say I'm doing something wrong here.. Because to bring up the issue I half-jokingly said to one of the players "you've got to stop blackmailing people" but they responded earnestly with "what else were we supposed to do? Let the thieves blindfold us?" If they feel like that was the only option then I don't want to hold that against them.. I'm just really struggling to get them allies and buddies at this point. I genuinely do not know what to do.
And this one is you the DM knowing what outcomes will be, and then offering the PCs a completely unreasonable option and then feeling aggrieved that they didn't take it.
Blindfolded? By a guild of thieves? Thieves are basically the worst people in society. They make a living through making the lives of ordinary people miserable. They make them feel afraid, make them feel violated. Thieves are dreadful, dangerous, and when they organise into a guild they are full of murderers to boot. Why would any sane person allow a thieves guild to blindfold them? Especially if they just caught you breaking into their hideout? It's a totally unfair expectation and you already mentioned that you are implementing this because you want to head to a plot point that you had pre-planned. I have never - and will never - play a character who would allow this. Every one of my characters would die first.
Look, maybe I'm being tough with you, but you're approaching this as "My players are playing the game wrong" and they're not. What you have is an overall clash of expectations about the game world.
I can see from what you write that you are aiming this game to be a bit more... cutesy than some games. You have:
a nice mom who is also a vigilante, with her good-aligned (?) lycanthrope family
helpful wizard thieves who they are meant to trust because he helped them (when the wizard was a sneak thief already??)
a thieves guild who actually won't kill you for breaking into their secret lair, they will honour their word
What's notable about this is... these characters are all criminals too. One of them is a freakin' werewolf? What happens if they help her and befriend her and then her kids go tear someone apart? The paladin is the only NPC you've mentioned that I might even want to befriend.
To me this is a bit of a Disneyland world, and as a player I'd be unable to believe that these shady characters are trustworthy. I mean "a nice mom" who claws people up? Eh? Are your players playing cheerful gnomes who love cotton candy, or are they playing dark-souled PTSD survivors because I think that you are playing Xena: Warrior Princess, where doing good and the power of friendship should overcome all, and the players are playing Game of Thrones and "the ends justify the means."
It may be that you and these players simply don't gel, but it sounds like you are having a great campaign! There is no requirement for the heroes to be liked, as long as they are following your adventure hooks that's all fine.
It may be worth sitting down and running session 0.5 and saying "Guys, I'm just going to point out that this constant blackmailing of every NPC you meet has me thinking that your characters don't want to be heroes. What do they actually want to do?" And then base the campaign off that from then on. Do not try to get into a "crime and punishment" scenario with them where you try to correct their behaviour in-game because everything they've done sounds totally legitimate. They just aren't roleplaying nice people.
Do not force a TPK over this. This situation comes down to:
Players activated a trap in an area you set for them
Players don't want to be blindfolded and taken against their will somewhere
They shouldn't have to be. Fighting their way out should be a legitimate option. If it wasn't a legit option, then you sent them into a death trap.
The campaign started off with a few different directions it could go but when I made a murder mystery they REALLY liked solving (it involved physical puzzles like letters written by multiple suspects, the victim, etc), we settled the campaign into being a detective sort of thing. Fights and all the DnD norm would happen too, but the main theme is bringing them a case-to-solve. After a few incidents where they did cowboy into a few REALLY close calls, I did ask them if they'd prefer I make more of a fighty, maybe even Monster Hunter-like, campaign but they were very excited for the physical puzzles and being detectives in an urban setting. I know for a fact some of the players do get bored when they don't get to be killers but they're also the same players the most vocal about adoring the layered mysteries that the role of fantasy-detective lets them explore. So, collecting intel has been an important aspect of the campaign too since it's about detective-work. (I'm explaining that now since I previously didn't think the theme would be so relevant but you've made it clear to me that the theming of the world and game is important here)
I do think it is very Me to want them to make friends, but it definitely makes it harder to give them mysteries when they have no one to give them cases or give their characters good reason to solve the mysteries. Afterall, if a town totally hates them, why should they stick around and solve the case of, say, sewer vampires?
I want them to have NPC friends to help them out too but you're right, if they want to be a pack that stands on their own in the world then that's how things should roll first and foremost.
Maybe the question I should be asking then is, do you think there's good ways to give PCs mysteries/detective-work when they have very few NPC friends/allies..?
The group doesn't have to have friends pointing them in the direction of mysteries. Let them develop a reputation for solving these tough problems/mysteries. Let people come to them who may not like them but have no other options to give them quests. They can even offer payment. If they are based somewhere you could have them start an Adventurers Guild or detective agency - sort of an Acquisitions Incorporated type of thing. Also the clients don't have to be nice people either.
Their allies don't have to be friends. They can be allies of convenience. Those allies might even turn on them when the mystery is solved. In the case of thieves breaking down the door? Maybe they all get captured and have to start working for the guild. Maybe the guild can blackmail them into it?
Just throwing out ideas. I would still have an out of game conversation where you explain that its hard to give them mysteries to solve if they alienate everyone. Have them make suggestions.
You can't fix the way your players approach NPCs by changing your NPCs. The players I've had who have resorted to violence immediately or ignored NPCs usually didn't change when I modified the NPCs. Sometimes there were exceptions, but only by making NPCs who were basically just extra party members.
The way to change how your players approach NPCs is to change how the world reacts to their actions. Shopkeepers refuse service to murder hobos. Guards keep them out of cities and watch them closely, even if they are solving crimes, because murdering suspects is, shockingly, not a good look for adventurers. Work dries up and what is left becomes more and more dirty work from unscrupulous characters who don't care about the safety or success of the party and only offer the bare minimum rewards. At some point, no legitimate organization is going to trust them, and that's something that you can convey with story telling. Innocent people stop cooperating because they know that anything they say will lead to indiscriminate violence. Guards scoff when having to cooperate with the party and tell them to stop causing problems. Someone takes the bluff about blackmail and the town supports the person they were blackmailing because, well, the party's reputation is worse than the reputation of person they're blackmailing. Take their toolkit and use it against them if it's an issue. It might not "fix" problems right away- it will take time for habits to change- but it will discourage such callous treatment of NPCs if abusing them doesn't get the party their way every time.
Personally, I'd be calling the party's bluff a lot more. And I'd probably have them develop some kind of derogatory name like "The Snitches" or the "The Tattlers."
They want to turn in the vigilante to the town guard? What evidence do they have? How does the word of some drifter bullies stand up to that of a mother of the community? Maybe they even know about her and intentionally turn a blind eye to her as long as she's doing good.
They want to "expose" the thieve's guild hideout? Law enforcement generally knows exactly where organized crime is operating, they just can't easily obtain evidence of the crimes committed. Or maybe they've paid off some of the guards to intercept these kinds of tips and squash them. Again, the word of town guard members versus some random drifters should not be a contest.
And once they try to snitch on an influential person/organization and fail, they will have made an enemy. One that could turn the town against them and drive them out, amongst other things.
A lot of this blackmail is leaning really heavily on the unwavering trust, spotless virtue and omnipotence of the town guard. You can pull that out from underneath them. Same with the mage assembly. These organizations are not just extensions of the PCs authority.
As a more general thing, I'd like to echo the consequences thing. If your party wants to play a game as gritty, ruthless mercenaries then they should be treated as such. People such as that would be distrusted and disliked, and largely shunned/avoided by regular folk.
There are endless TV shows about detectives that like nobody, get on with nobody, but they get the job done.
Jessica Jones is one that springs to mind. She's deeply antisocial and alienates everyone around her. The Boys features a team of anti-hero superheroes with few, if any, friends to call on. Jack Reacher is a loner who makes temporary allies and then wanders on to pastures new. Basically every police procedural features a hard-bitten, alcoholic bad-cop who doesn't play by the rules.
They don't need allies, they just need motivation, and that basically means paid work.
If you fancy it you could start having bad guys throw them jobs.
One idea that you might enjoy - have the PCs start running a business in the town. Set them up as a company of private detectives, and let the jobs come their way. They can choose a building to live in, map it out, decorate it, decide who runs the desk downstairs, all that kind of stuff - they might really enjoy that, and by doing so they might build roots into the community.
I think Sanvael has made some good points, I only have two points to add. From the PC perspective you have three extremely suspect NPCs, remember you have perfect knowledge, they don't and will not want to trust NPCs and they have very good reasons not to trust any of these, they would be stupid to do so, so instead they tryto make sure they have some power in the relationship and give NPCs (you the DM) good reason not to betray them at the critical moment, and having done that they didn't backstabb the NPCs.
Second once the PCs find a tactic that works they will repeat that tactic, you have established that it works, expect it to be repeated.
This has really helped me think on my options.. I feel so less cornered now on what to do! Thank you everyone.. I'm going to do my best to implement a lot of this stuff and see what really sings with my players!
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My players have a tendency to be pretty callous to the NPCs in my campaign.
Some examples of interactions:
One npc was a nice mom who used her lycanthropy to be a city's vigilante superhero. When the players caught her, they blackmailed her pretty quick, saying if she didn't help then they would report her to the guard since lycanthropy is, naturally, frowned upon. She worked with them in order to kill a vampire but the reason for the teamwork was because they threatened her (and by extension her werewolf husband and three werewolf children). I'd intended for her to help them but the blackmailing was definitely unexpected.
I introduced them to a nice unblackmail-able, stereotypical paladin sort. They investigated an illegal monster-fighting ring together but the players then murdered a potential suspect in broad daylight, on the city streets, before they had even talked to the suspect. The suspect in question was a chubby hen aarakocra, not the picture of threatening.. and they smeared her across the pavement. That soured that friendship.
They got arrested for murder and thrown in prison. We did a two-part prison escape and one of the npcs in the prison was a wizard possessing the warden's cat (the warden was an evil wizard and this cat-wizard was trying to steal a spell of their's). They did a "I scratch your back, you scratch mine" kind of deal, but as soon as he got skittish about having to actually be seen with known murderers, they blackmailed him, telling him that they'd report him to the mage assembly for trying to steal a spell from another wizard. I don't even know if I can tell you how it got to that.. because he was being very helpful, but he drew the line at some point. Basically, I wanted him to be cowardly enough though that their victory in escape was wholeheartedly theirs and not just because they could bully a wizard.
Most recently, they travelled into a thieves guild lair and the patrol offered to bring them into the lair to meet their leader but only if they put blindfolds on for the trip. This was after the party had tripped a trap entering the guild's false treasure room, they'd marred the thieves' trust but I wanted to keep the option available still for them to get in nice with the guild's leader. They refused and blackmailed the patrol, saying if they didn't take them to their leader then they'd just go and report them to the city guard since they already knew the location of their hideout's entrance. At that point, the priority of the patrol was killing these rats.
And that last one is kind of the straw that breaks the camel's back, because at this point the party is holed up in a singular room with angry criminals entering. There's a chance they might all die, so I was beginning to consider "who would come and save them?" and the answer is literally... no one. They have no npc friends... If they aren't blackmailing npcs they're usually extorting them for quick cash/items or dropping contact with as soon as things go sour (ex, a pair of twins saved their lives once at the cost of one of the twins dying, and they just never talked to the remaining twin after that), etc.. If an NPC has nothing to offer, the players tend not to keep in contact with them (ex, their 10 year old son that the werewolf family took in after the group was arrested).
I am inclined to say I'm doing something wrong here.. Because to bring up the issue I half-jokingly said to one of the players "you've got to stop blackmailing people" but they responded earnestly with "what else were we supposed to do? Let the thieves blindfold us?" If they feel like that was the only option then I don't want to hold that against them.. I'm just really struggling to get them allies and buddies at this point. I genuinely do not know what to do.
tldr; My players have no NPC friends and made LOTS of enemies. Is there a good way to endear npcs to your players so they don't blackmail/extort them..? Are there any good tricks to making npcs undeniably friend-shaped for your players to scoop up??
Make them cute. I'm not kidding. I'm not saying make them all fluffy little puppies, because with the right acting a big burly man can be as cute as a ball of fuzz. You can try using funny voices, (kermit the frog is the canon voice for all Kuo Toa in my world, and my players love them) giving them weird eccentricities, (one of my NPCs is constantly perching in weird places and climbing around, even though she's this giant goliath) or making them just very... big. Not physically, but making them very over-exaggerated, because the small details will probably be lost on your PCs.
"Ignorance is bliss, and you look absolutely miserable."
Then the NPCs get callous back.
The party turns up at a temple looking for healing or resurrection magic? They get turned away. "We don't help murderers and blackmailers." The party goes to a crafter to get armour repaired, weapons fixed, whatever. They get told "no". The party goes to an inn. Outside the inn they see a wanted poster with their names and faces on it. If they go inside, the inkeeper does give them a room but later sends a runner to the town guard.
If the party kill the town guard then the mayor sends word to the local ruler, who sends better guards. If the party kills them then the ruler sends even better guards, maybe advertising for adventuring parties to kill the bandits. No matter how powerful the PCs are, there's always someone more powerful.
Now having a group of raiders might be what everyone at the table wants. In this case, let the players enjoy their characters being badass raiders. They might enjoy it when every town they visit, their wanted posters have a bigger gold value under them. :-)
Don't, however, remove the consequences. If the party acts like raiders then the world will treat them like raiders.
Also, bandits and raiders are not known for loyalty. If the PCs do kill their way to the top of the thieves guild or blackmail their way into political power, make it clear that every single person under them is looking at them with greedy, plotting eyes.
It sounds to me like you’re going to kill off the entire party. I would if I was you.
Professional computer geek
It sounds like your players want to treat the NPCs the way they do because it is fun for them. Making your NPCs cute, friendly or endearing isn't going to change the way they treat them. It might be time for an out-of-game conversation. Ask them why they continuously blackmail, extort and otherwise mistreat NPCs that are not necessarily bad guys. Use what they say to help you moving forward. If they want to be that kind of party, don't use friendly NPCs. Make sure they understand you believe there are consequences for their actions - positive and negative. If they are nice to an NPC maybe they get more info, treasure or a magic item. If they are not, they get put in jail, outnumbered or possibly the session ends in a TPK.
The other possibility is that they don't really know how to interact positively with the NPCs. In that case you can coach them.
I'm not sure the problem is you NPCs but rather the players. The two primary ingredients for a fun role-playing game are that the players need to be able to make choices and those choices need to have meaningful consequences. It sounds like you're delivering on those. I also agree that it might be time for an out of game conversation. What did the players want to get out of the game? What sort of game did they want to play and what reason do they have for adventuring together? Was it their intent to run a neutral/evil campaign? I would have this conversation before the thieves break down the door. If the players legitimately understood they were leaning in a less than good direction because thats what their characters would do (neutral/evil characters) then let me face the music. If any are left alive, the head of the thieves guild can enter along with some burly guards and offer the survivors a job doing some sufficiently nasty work assuming thats what the players want (and that you're willing to run). "I should have you killed but it seems you can hold your own in a fight so I might have use for you...yes." If this is a misunderstanding, make sure to explain to your players that while your world may be peopled by fantastical creatures the social mores of the society the PCs operate in are much the same as those of the real world. What are the consequences in real life of blackmailing someone? If you can come to an understanding, let the thieves mostly do their worst maybe killing several of the PCs, but before the parent of the 10 year old is about to die a pack of angry werewolves comes to the rescue of the remaining PCs. If you want to get creative role some characters for the werewolves and 10 year old. Have the PCs play those characters tracking down the PCs (with a suitable time limit for dramatic effect). Make the PCs walk a mile in the shoes of some of the people they've hurt. If they succeed in finding the PCs in time then werewolves come to the rescue, otherwise TPK. I'm sorry if this didn't address your original question but hopefully I've given you some good alternatives.
Woah, sport. Let's slow down here for a moment.
Let's try to look at this from the PC point of view, rather than the DM point of view in each of these cases. These players are not trying to mess up the game, they're playing it the way that they want to play their characters.
This is a legitimate way to gain the assistance of an NPC to combat a greater evil. The PCs are gritty, hard-edged heroes who will use whatever methods they need in order to get the job done. They are professional killers. That's what all adventurers are when you boil it down. This idea of chivalric heroism is absolutely nonsense, and the "I'm so cute, I'm such a goof ball, I actually murder for money, but I'm such a sweet quirky character" is nonsense from a realism point of view. Not everyone has to play for realism, nor is it the right way, but nobody goes through what adventurers do without getting mentally hardened. If this is how they want to play the game, that's fine. For you, the DM, it doesn't matter if you liked your werewolf Avenger; I think this is you feeling bad that they were mean to your NPC. You can't be; as DM you don't get to have those feelings, you just run the world.
Here you are only seeing the encounter from your own perspective - why should the PCs want to make NPC friends? You want them to. You want to run a campaign that has them making pals all over the world, and sure I can understand that's your vision. But the players don't want to be friends with your NPCs, and it kinda sounds you feel that this is somehow them rejecting you, a little bit.
These players don't want to play sociable, friendly types. They are killers (and edgelords, I expect). But that's fine, everyone's first character is an edgy killer with #darkpast. Players realise later on that the game is more fun when they play a more rounded character, but that's for them to discover.
And this one is you the DM knowing what outcomes will be, and then offering the PCs a completely unreasonable option and then feeling aggrieved that they didn't take it.
Blindfolded? By a guild of thieves? Thieves are basically the worst people in society. They make a living through making the lives of ordinary people miserable. They make them feel afraid, make them feel violated. Thieves are dreadful, dangerous, and when they organise into a guild they are full of murderers to boot. Why would any sane person allow a thieves guild to blindfold them? Especially if they just caught you breaking into their hideout? It's a totally unfair expectation and you already mentioned that you are implementing this because you want to head to a plot point that you had pre-planned. I have never - and will never - play a character who would allow this. Every one of my characters would die first.
Look, maybe I'm being tough with you, but you're approaching this as "My players are playing the game wrong" and they're not. What you have is an overall clash of expectations about the game world.
I can see from what you write that you are aiming this game to be a bit more... cutesy than some games. You have:
What's notable about this is... these characters are all criminals too. One of them is a freakin' werewolf? What happens if they help her and befriend her and then her kids go tear someone apart? The paladin is the only NPC you've mentioned that I might even want to befriend.
To me this is a bit of a Disneyland world, and as a player I'd be unable to believe that these shady characters are trustworthy. I mean "a nice mom" who claws people up? Eh? Are your players playing cheerful gnomes who love cotton candy, or are they playing dark-souled PTSD survivors because I think that you are playing Xena: Warrior Princess, where doing good and the power of friendship should overcome all, and the players are playing Game of Thrones and "the ends justify the means."
It may be that you and these players simply don't gel, but it sounds like you are having a great campaign! There is no requirement for the heroes to be liked, as long as they are following your adventure hooks that's all fine.
It may be worth sitting down and running session 0.5 and saying "Guys, I'm just going to point out that this constant blackmailing of every NPC you meet has me thinking that your characters don't want to be heroes. What do they actually want to do?" And then base the campaign off that from then on. Do not try to get into a "crime and punishment" scenario with them where you try to correct their behaviour in-game because everything they've done sounds totally legitimate. They just aren't roleplaying nice people.
Do not force a TPK over this. This situation comes down to:
They shouldn't have to be. Fighting their way out should be a legitimate option. If it wasn't a legit option, then you sent them into a death trap.
@ OP,
Gonna lead with this:
Threatening to blackmail an NPC doesn't mean that the NPC does what they are told. That is determined by the NPCs personality and goals. Nothing in any sourcebook says that an NPC *has* to be lesser in power than the PCs. The NPC is placed there to aid the party, provide information, or act as a MacGuffin that needs collecting or killing. The NPC needs to serve a purpose besides training dummy for your party. It seems that you are outlining player choice and behaviour that is being enabled in gameplay, save for maybe one or two fleeting instances with an upset Paladin-type.
There really needs to be a consensus reached at your table about what type of game you are willing to run, and what type of characters the players are trying to enjoy. It's clear that there is a disconnect there. You aren't having fun with this style of game, and that's fine, it's not for everyone. The same could be said of all friendly, loveable, cuddely-type NPCs not being fun at all tables. There has to be an agreement between you as the DM, and the players, as to what the collective version of "fun" looks like. You need to be able to voice your opinion just as equitably as your players do. Those opinions need to be accepted and respected on the opposite side of the perspective table equally.
If having an out-of-game conversation doesn't curb behaviour or doesn't reach a consensus, stop the game entirely.
No D&D is better than Bad D&D.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
The campaign started off with a few different directions it could go but when I made a murder mystery they REALLY liked solving (it involved physical puzzles like letters written by multiple suspects, the victim, etc), we settled the campaign into being a detective sort of thing. Fights and all the DnD norm would happen too, but the main theme is bringing them a case-to-solve. After a few incidents where they did cowboy into a few REALLY close calls, I did ask them if they'd prefer I make more of a fighty, maybe even Monster Hunter-like, campaign but they were very excited for the physical puzzles and being detectives in an urban setting. I know for a fact some of the players do get bored when they don't get to be killers but they're also the same players the most vocal about adoring the layered mysteries that the role of fantasy-detective lets them explore. So, collecting intel has been an important aspect of the campaign too since it's about detective-work.
(I'm explaining that now since I previously didn't think the theme would be so relevant but you've made it clear to me that the theming of the world and game is important here)
I do think it is very Me to want them to make friends, but it definitely makes it harder to give them mysteries when they have no one to give them cases or give their characters good reason to solve the mysteries. Afterall, if a town totally hates them, why should they stick around and solve the case of, say, sewer vampires?
I want them to have NPC friends to help them out too but you're right, if they want to be a pack that stands on their own in the world then that's how things should roll first and foremost.
Maybe the question I should be asking then is, do you think there's good ways to give PCs mysteries/detective-work when they have very few NPC friends/allies..?
The group doesn't have to have friends pointing them in the direction of mysteries. Let them develop a reputation for solving these tough problems/mysteries. Let people come to them who may not like them but have no other options to give them quests. They can even offer payment. If they are based somewhere you could have them start an Adventurers Guild or detective agency - sort of an Acquisitions Incorporated type of thing. Also the clients don't have to be nice people either.
Their allies don't have to be friends. They can be allies of convenience. Those allies might even turn on them when the mystery is solved. In the case of thieves breaking down the door? Maybe they all get captured and have to start working for the guild. Maybe the guild can blackmail them into it?
Just throwing out ideas. I would still have an out of game conversation where you explain that its hard to give them mysteries to solve if they alienate everyone. Have them make suggestions.
You can't fix the way your players approach NPCs by changing your NPCs. The players I've had who have resorted to violence immediately or ignored NPCs usually didn't change when I modified the NPCs. Sometimes there were exceptions, but only by making NPCs who were basically just extra party members.
The way to change how your players approach NPCs is to change how the world reacts to their actions. Shopkeepers refuse service to murder hobos. Guards keep them out of cities and watch them closely, even if they are solving crimes, because murdering suspects is, shockingly, not a good look for adventurers. Work dries up and what is left becomes more and more dirty work from unscrupulous characters who don't care about the safety or success of the party and only offer the bare minimum rewards. At some point, no legitimate organization is going to trust them, and that's something that you can convey with story telling. Innocent people stop cooperating because they know that anything they say will lead to indiscriminate violence. Guards scoff when having to cooperate with the party and tell them to stop causing problems. Someone takes the bluff about blackmail and the town supports the person they were blackmailing because, well, the party's reputation is worse than the reputation of person they're blackmailing. Take their toolkit and use it against them if it's an issue. It might not "fix" problems right away- it will take time for habits to change- but it will discourage such callous treatment of NPCs if abusing them doesn't get the party their way every time.
Personally, I'd be calling the party's bluff a lot more. And I'd probably have them develop some kind of derogatory name like "The Snitches" or the "The Tattlers."
They want to turn in the vigilante to the town guard? What evidence do they have? How does the word of some drifter bullies stand up to that of a mother of the community? Maybe they even know about her and intentionally turn a blind eye to her as long as she's doing good.
They want to "expose" the thieve's guild hideout? Law enforcement generally knows exactly where organized crime is operating, they just can't easily obtain evidence of the crimes committed. Or maybe they've paid off some of the guards to intercept these kinds of tips and squash them. Again, the word of town guard members versus some random drifters should not be a contest.
And once they try to snitch on an influential person/organization and fail, they will have made an enemy. One that could turn the town against them and drive them out, amongst other things.
A lot of this blackmail is leaning really heavily on the unwavering trust, spotless virtue and omnipotence of the town guard. You can pull that out from underneath them. Same with the mage assembly. These organizations are not just extensions of the PCs authority.
As a more general thing, I'd like to echo the consequences thing. If your party wants to play a game as gritty, ruthless mercenaries then they should be treated as such. People such as that would be distrusted and disliked, and largely shunned/avoided by regular folk.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
There are endless TV shows about detectives that like nobody, get on with nobody, but they get the job done.
Jessica Jones is one that springs to mind. She's deeply antisocial and alienates everyone around her. The Boys features a team of anti-hero superheroes with few, if any, friends to call on. Jack Reacher is a loner who makes temporary allies and then wanders on to pastures new. Basically every police procedural features a hard-bitten, alcoholic bad-cop who doesn't play by the rules.
They don't need allies, they just need motivation, and that basically means paid work.
If you fancy it you could start having bad guys throw them jobs.
One idea that you might enjoy - have the PCs start running a business in the town. Set them up as a company of private detectives, and let the jobs come their way. They can choose a building to live in, map it out, decorate it, decide who runs the desk downstairs, all that kind of stuff - they might really enjoy that, and by doing so they might build roots into the community.
I think Sanvael has made some good points, I only have two points to add. From the PC perspective you have three extremely suspect NPCs, remember you have perfect knowledge, they don't and will not want to trust NPCs and they have very good reasons not to trust any of these, they would be stupid to do so, so instead they tryto make sure they have some power in the relationship and give NPCs (you the DM) good reason not to betray them at the critical moment, and having done that they didn't backstabb the NPCs.
Second once the PCs find a tactic that works they will repeat that tactic, you have established that it works, expect it to be repeated.
This has really helped me think on my options.. I feel so less cornered now on what to do! Thank you everyone.. I'm going to do my best to implement a lot of this stuff and see what really sings with my players!