I have a gnome artificer that wants to invent our world's first gun. Any thoughts on mechanics for making this happen? Obviously, he'll need gunpowder, smith's tools, and some kind of metal.
I'm thinking something Intelligence based. Perhaps INT checks that drop with every level higher than 1, and the higher the check the better/more reliable the gun? Maybe there's something where every time he makes a gun it gets better with every subsequent prototype?
I would say he would need Tinker's Tools and not so much Smith's Tools. Gun powder, metal, and maybe some wood for the grip and stock.
At most I would consider multiple, maybe four, Tinker Tools checks with a DC progressively getting harder and hard over a course of time (they are introducing more parts which could lead to incompatibility).
I would also allow a bonus increase to a check for the number of weeks working, like during downtime, on the gun before making each tinker check. I.E. If the Gnome spent a full week going over the design and making sure there are no flaws with the materials then they'd have a plus 1 to their Tinker Tool check. Or something like this.
I'd say you want to make creating the first gun a challenge and not something that can be accomplished with the snap of the fingers, or a single roll of the dice, then make it so the gnome is building a core part and putting them all together with each check. If they fail the check then maybe the design for that part failed and it needs to go back to the 'drawing board' for more research.
I agree with the multiple checks route. To throw out another option, maybe an int-based check to design it, while the actual building of it requires dex-based. With appropriate tool proficiencies.
Or, if you want to turn it into an adventure instead of just a couple skill checks. You could say it isn't actually the first gun. They were invented in ancient times -- you know, there's all those paintings of people using guns to slay a dragon, and guns were famously used to turn the tide of that one battle -- but that knowledge has been hidden. Largely because the powers that be feared a weapon that can do tremendous damage at range with so little training. Then unearthing the plans for making a gun becomes a side-quest. And when he starts using it, it will certainly attract the attention of the king's secret police.
First, have your artificer have a random device failure check and end up in a desert. Next have a Lizardman also show up and try to kill the gnome. Then have a slow motion hand to hand combat scene with the lizardman doing really bad voiceover. The gnome now has to to come up with some device to beat the Lizardman, and that's how he comes up with a primitive gun.
This recently came up in a game of mine, so I just wanted to put my thoughts here. I know I'm late.
I recommend talking to your player and considering a few things, like:
high/low magic nature of the setting does it make sense to go to the trouble of making this weapon, or would a spell be easier?
other technology available (are explosives already available, or are those new as well?)
What would be the most rewarding challenge for them vs. the benefit?
In a high magic setting, making a gun could mean creating a rechargeable spell focus, essentially an item that fires a cantrip. For a world that already has flying machines and explosives, it could be a fairly simple set of skill checks of one type, or even different checks for different parts.
Your player may find that taking their time and using down time would be preferrable, as more of a "pay the gold, get the thing" approach, often with a surcharge for having the first, such as paying double the cost due to trial and error.
Finding a balance between cost, risk, and reward is the key. I cannot recommend enough how valuable talking with your player is, to come up with the best solution.
In our game, it came out to requiring three consecutive successful tinker tools checks over as many weeks of down time, and materials equal to the cost of the firearm. A failure on the first simply meant you start again. a failure on the second would mean half of the materials had been damaged or destroyed. A failure on the third resulted in damage to the character as well as needing to start over from scratch with all new materials. The result was their choice of a pistol or musket from Exandria, so that it included misfire. Only after making a gun with misfire could they make the standard version (without misfire). Do also take range into consideration, as Exandria firearms have a much longer range than the standard ones. You may have to adjust for your campaign.
The original invention of gunpowder was not planned. They were trying to make a Potion of Eternal Life.
I would not start with that. I would assume that gunpowder already existed. After gunpowder was discovered it was first used for entertainment. They started just lighting it on fire and looking at it, that led to coating arrows with it. That led to rockets that could not be aimed, but burned like a s.o.b.
I would start with that. Someone else invents gunpowder and even rockets that cannot be aimed. Your gnome should be turning the first rocket into a hand hold device that launches an arrow head. Note, in real life the main problem was the smoke fowling the barrel. They had to clean it up before reloading, etc.
I would have him start with a horrible thing that takes a minute to reload, but does a high amount of damage, both piercing and fire. Then offer him options each level that he wants to improve it. Each improvisation will have a cost, but a net gain.
Version (1). Start with 1 minute to reload, doing 1d8 piercing (arrow head) + 1d8 fire, range 20/50, bonus action to light the gun but action to fire. Misfire on 1-3 hurts you. Negotiate each upgrade.
Version (2) Perhaps moving to a tiny thing that does 1d4 pierce +1d4 fire, but you can carry 3 of them. V(3) Upgrade to 1d8 piercing, carrying 4 of them, by switching to bullets (smaller barrels). You can drop the thing after use and draw another, but not put one away and draw another. V(4) Reduce misfire to 1-2. V(5) No longer need a bonus action to light the gun, uses a flint, but misfire goes back up to 1-3. V(6) Upgrade to 1 gun with 5 barrels, taking a bonus action to switch barrel. V(7) Upgrade reduces misfire to 1-2. V(8) as a free action to switch barrels, but still counts as loadable. V(9) upgrade damage to 1d10. V(10) upgrade range to 30/90, V(11) Upgrade barrels to six. V(12) Reduce loading time from 1 minute to 1 round, remove extra barrels. V(13) reduce loading time to 1 bonus action V(14) reduce loading time free action, but retains loadable property.
The original invention of gunpowder was not planned. They were trying to make a Potion of Eternal Life.
Well, we don't really know what they were trying to do, since it's not recorded, but given that gunpowder was first used for fireworks, and using various sorts of powder in flame to generate colors has a long history, I suspect the original purpose was a showy display.
The first man-portable firearm was the arquebus, basically a small, handheld, muzzle loaded cannon. As an analogue for an arquebus I would use something like this:
The next evolution in firearms from a D&D standpoint would be a musket, but the official musket is crap and I would use something more like the following stats for one:
The original invention of gunpowder was not planned. They were trying to make a Potion of Eternal Life.
Well, we don't really know what they were trying to do, since it's not recorded, but given that gunpowder was first used for fireworks, and using various sorts of powder in flame to generate colors has a long history, I suspect the original purpose was a showy display.
You are looking at what it does, not what they wanted. Once they discovered it they said "Oh, we should use this for showy displays!" Only in chinese.
The very first formulas for gunpowder were put in Alchemical books that focused on healing. For the first 300 years it was probably a secret of the Taoists, as they were the only people describing it in texts. They were trying to create a potion of Eternal Life, because hey, if you thought that was possible, wouldn't you? They also tried to make gold, because again, who wouldn't?
As for the listed weapons in the books that IamSpota described, I think those should be the middle results. If you let a guy start out with something worse and build it up to something better than that, it makes for a much better story than simply saying "Here, you invented this."
Inventing is hard. There are lots of dead ends, lots of times where weeks of work doesn't get you any progress (though knowing what's not going to work is still progress).
I'd set a target number of successes (a bit like a skill challenge). Maybe 50? Maybe higher? Then I'd allow the character to make an INT check for every week of downtime spent researching.
What's that? You say the gnome is going to spend 1 to 2 years researching this? I'm glad you noticed.
Gunpowder was invented during the 9th century. The first crude firearms appeared in the mid 10th century (and they were crude - with ranges in the low single metres). Metal barrels appeared in the 13th century, with person-portable hand cannons at the end of the 13th century. If the gnome's player wants to achieve all of that in weeks, the answer is a flat "no."
I agree that I think you need gunpowder to already exist in the world. If it doesn't, there's really only two ways you can discover it:
Random attempts at creating stuff that fortunately lead to it
Divine/supernatural assistance. CR does this with a demon showing Percy how to make his pepperbox.
Either way, your Gnome is going to run into an issue which even armies experienced: where do you get the black powder and the shot for the weapon? You need a way to produce it by gathering the requisite ingredients (e.g. saltpeter, which you need to get from caves). You'll need to make these ingredients available, maybe at an alchemist's supplier?
Either have your gnome be a super genius, and he just... figures it out. Or have him locate ancient knowledge, rediscovering certain ideas that inspire him to have new ideas.
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New DM here.
I have a gnome artificer that wants to invent our world's first gun. Any thoughts on mechanics for making this happen? Obviously, he'll need gunpowder, smith's tools, and some kind of metal.
I'm thinking something Intelligence based. Perhaps INT checks that drop with every level higher than 1, and the higher the check the better/more reliable the gun? Maybe there's something where every time he makes a gun it gets better with every subsequent prototype?
I would say he would need Tinker's Tools and not so much Smith's Tools. Gun powder, metal, and maybe some wood for the grip and stock.
At most I would consider multiple, maybe four, Tinker Tools checks with a DC progressively getting harder and hard over a course of time (they are introducing more parts which could lead to incompatibility).
I would also allow a bonus increase to a check for the number of weeks working, like during downtime, on the gun before making each tinker check. I.E. If the Gnome spent a full week going over the design and making sure there are no flaws with the materials then they'd have a plus 1 to their Tinker Tool check. Or something like this.
I'd say you want to make creating the first gun a challenge and not something that can be accomplished with the snap of the fingers, or a single roll of the dice, then make it so the gnome is building a core part and putting them all together with each check. If they fail the check then maybe the design for that part failed and it needs to go back to the 'drawing board' for more research.
Plot device, really. The historical process of inventing guns involves a lot of people blowing themselves up.
I would say you would need a combination of Smith's Tools to construct the barrel, Tinker's Tools to construct the firing mechanism, and Alchemist's Supplies to make the black powder. I wouldn’t require rolls for that, just use the crafting rules from Xanathar’s Guide.
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I agree with the multiple checks route. To throw out another option, maybe an int-based check to design it, while the actual building of it requires dex-based. With appropriate tool proficiencies.
Or, if you want to turn it into an adventure instead of just a couple skill checks. You could say it isn't actually the first gun. They were invented in ancient times -- you know, there's all those paintings of people using guns to slay a dragon, and guns were famously used to turn the tide of that one battle -- but that knowledge has been hidden. Largely because the powers that be feared a weapon that can do tremendous damage at range with so little training. Then unearthing the plans for making a gun becomes a side-quest. And when he starts using it, it will certainly attract the attention of the king's secret police.
First, have your artificer have a random device failure check and end up in a desert. Next have a Lizardman also show up and try to kill the gnome. Then have a slow motion hand to hand combat scene with the lizardman doing really bad voiceover. The gnome now has to to come up with some device to beat the Lizardman, and that's how he comes up with a primitive gun.
This recently came up in a game of mine, so I just wanted to put my thoughts here. I know I'm late.
I recommend talking to your player and considering a few things, like:
In a high magic setting, making a gun could mean creating a rechargeable spell focus, essentially an item that fires a cantrip. For a world that already has flying machines and explosives, it could be a fairly simple set of skill checks of one type, or even different checks for different parts.
Your player may find that taking their time and using down time would be preferrable, as more of a "pay the gold, get the thing" approach, often with a surcharge for having the first, such as paying double the cost due to trial and error.
Finding a balance between cost, risk, and reward is the key. I cannot recommend enough how valuable talking with your player is, to come up with the best solution.
In our game, it came out to requiring three consecutive successful tinker tools checks over as many weeks of down time, and materials equal to the cost of the firearm. A failure on the first simply meant you start again. a failure on the second would mean half of the materials had been damaged or destroyed. A failure on the third resulted in damage to the character as well as needing to start over from scratch with all new materials. The result was their choice of a pistol or musket from Exandria, so that it included misfire. Only after making a gun with misfire could they make the standard version (without misfire). Do also take range into consideration, as Exandria firearms have a much longer range than the standard ones. You may have to adjust for your campaign.
The original invention of gunpowder was not planned. They were trying to make a Potion of Eternal Life.
I would not start with that. I would assume that gunpowder already existed. After gunpowder was discovered it was first used for entertainment. They started just lighting it on fire and looking at it, that led to coating arrows with it. That led to rockets that could not be aimed, but burned like a s.o.b.
I would start with that. Someone else invents gunpowder and even rockets that cannot be aimed. Your gnome should be turning the first rocket into a hand hold device that launches an arrow head. Note, in real life the main problem was the smoke fowling the barrel. They had to clean it up before reloading, etc.
I would have him start with a horrible thing that takes a minute to reload, but does a high amount of damage, both piercing and fire. Then offer him options each level that he wants to improve it. Each improvisation will have a cost, but a net gain.
Version (1). Start with 1 minute to reload, doing 1d8 piercing (arrow head) + 1d8 fire, range 20/50, bonus action to light the gun but action to fire. Misfire on 1-3 hurts you. Negotiate each upgrade.
Version (2) Perhaps moving to a tiny thing that does 1d4 pierce +1d4 fire, but you can carry 3 of them. V(3) Upgrade to 1d8 piercing, carrying 4 of them, by switching to bullets (smaller barrels). You can drop the thing after use and draw another, but not put one away and draw another. V(4) Reduce misfire to 1-2. V(5) No longer need a bonus action to light the gun, uses a flint, but misfire goes back up to 1-3. V(6) Upgrade to 1 gun with 5 barrels, taking a bonus action to switch barrel. V(7) Upgrade reduces misfire to 1-2. V(8) as a free action to switch barrels, but still counts as loadable. V(9) upgrade damage to 1d10. V(10) upgrade range to 30/90, V(11) Upgrade barrels to six. V(12) Reduce loading time from 1 minute to 1 round, remove extra barrels. V(13) reduce loading time to 1 bonus action V(14) reduce loading time free action, but retains loadable property.
That kind of thing..
Well, we don't really know what they were trying to do, since it's not recorded, but given that gunpowder was first used for fireworks, and using various sorts of powder in flame to generate colors has a long history, I suspect the original purpose was a showy display.
The first man-portable firearm was the arquebus, basically a small, handheld, muzzle loaded cannon. As an analogue for an arquebus I would use something like this:
The next evolution in firearms from a D&D standpoint would be a musket, but the official musket is crap and I would use something more like the following stats for one:
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Hardcovers, DDB & You
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You are looking at what it does, not what they wanted. Once they discovered it they said "Oh, we should use this for showy displays!" Only in chinese.
The very first formulas for gunpowder were put in Alchemical books that focused on healing. For the first 300 years it was probably a secret of the Taoists, as they were the only people describing it in texts. They were trying to create a potion of Eternal Life, because hey, if you thought that was possible, wouldn't you? They also tried to make gold, because again, who wouldn't?
As for the listed weapons in the books that IamSpota described, I think those should be the middle results. If you let a guy start out with something worse and build it up to something better than that, it makes for a much better story than simply saying "Here, you invented this."
Inventing is hard. There are lots of dead ends, lots of times where weeks of work doesn't get you any progress (though knowing what's not going to work is still progress).
I'd set a target number of successes (a bit like a skill challenge). Maybe 50? Maybe higher? Then I'd allow the character to make an INT check for every week of downtime spent researching.
What's that? You say the gnome is going to spend 1 to 2 years researching this? I'm glad you noticed.
Gunpowder was invented during the 9th century. The first crude firearms appeared in the mid 10th century (and they were crude - with ranges in the low single metres). Metal barrels appeared in the 13th century, with person-portable hand cannons at the end of the 13th century. If the gnome's player wants to achieve all of that in weeks, the answer is a flat "no."
I agree that I think you need gunpowder to already exist in the world. If it doesn't, there's really only two ways you can discover it:
Either way, your Gnome is going to run into an issue which even armies experienced: where do you get the black powder and the shot for the weapon? You need a way to produce it by gathering the requisite ingredients (e.g. saltpeter, which you need to get from caves). You'll need to make these ingredients available, maybe at an alchemist's supplier?
Either have your gnome be a super genius, and he just... figures it out. Or have him locate ancient knowledge, rediscovering certain ideas that inspire him to have new ideas.