It's not fun for anybody. There are no mechanics that can make it work, or make it fun.
I take it you didn't see my perfectly good set of mechanics for torturing a PC earlier in the thread. I suggest looking at them before claiming that there is "no way" to make interrogating a PC fun.
Those mechanics A) don't work very well and B) are not fun.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I will say anything to get you to stop. You could torture me for a week solid and never know what if anything I said was true or not.
Coercion, bribery, interrogation, any other skills, and magic are the best bet.
There are at least 6 spells that can effect a creatures mind into helping you. Not counting a few spells that you can use to ask a higher power for information.
Well john. Now that we have you here safe with us we are going to remove the spell that we placed on you making you forget you were a spy for us. (now implant memories that he was a spy) (They do not have to be real good. The first spell was so good it blocked out all those old memories.) All those old memories will come back in time John, we hope.
John we need you to go back to those people and start to get us more information on what they are doing( place a GEAS on him)
Once your his friend and he believes you he will tell you everything.
In all actuality this is part of the characters decision. His Character was made to be one of the most heroic, most awe inspiring, most resilient, most adamant characters damn near able to withstand anything.... now in a narrative, what is it to have a character built to come through anything if he can't get through what the big bad dishes out. Doesn't make sense... so We decided that his character would be the first to taste the wrath, the power, and decide where his character would go after in order to overcome it.
When it comes to being tortured as RP experience, it was my character who decided he wanted to be deformed, he wanted to be broken, so that when he gets away, he can make a strong Chara ter comeback. As a DM I thought it was a pretty cool idea.
Normally I wouldn't consider it, but that's why it is all going to take place in a 1-player session one shot. It will be a character development, or in the case, a character tribulation to overcome. Which is why I asked for help.
You know, everyone keeps telling me not to do physical? I'm having hard time figuring out why. It's not fun for anybody? If my DM came asking me about ways to further my character and we discussed things and came up with some awesome ideas...as long as those ideas were implemented into the story and it turned into a good story and really fun to play, why would I care the way he went about doing it? And more to the point, if we discussed things and I knew what I was going to loose, just not when and I was fine with it, then why would I not have fun RP it?
Can someone explain that to me?
And I see more and more this changing memories, that is a pretty cool idea. I might make that part of my session for one of them too
If the story about torture is all you really need then just write it up and skip actually doing it.
The PC disappeared for a while and came back all roughed up. Or if you do not want all the other players to know about it yet then heal the character and have him come back with any other excuse for his absence.
You know, everyone keeps telling me not to do physical? I'm having hard time figuring out why. It's not fun for anybody? If my DM came asking me about ways to further my character and we discussed things and came up with some awesome ideas...as long as those ideas were implemented into the story and it turned into a good story and really fun to play, why would I care the way he went about doing it? And more to the point, if we discussed things and I knew what I was going to lose, just not when and I was fine with it, then why would I not have fun RP it?
Can someone explain that to me?
I'm pretty much the only person here who isn't completely against use of physical torture in D&D, and I can explain why you're being advised not to use it, as well as why that advice may not be completely true. Some of these people might have had a game featuring it run poorly, but it's more likely that they're concerned because physical torture is not covered in any rules, and there is no obvious way to cover it. Dealing unavoidable physical damage is seen as a problem, and it can be frustrating for D&D players to be forced into roleplay.
Physical torture can probably work if there is enough discussion of it between those involved. If both the player(s) and DM discuss the torture session in advance and above the table, setting up clear guidelines and rules, the session can go smoothly. One of the largest restrictors to what a D&D group can do with their game is a lack of above-the-table communication between players and DMs, and if you overcome that barrier, you might be able to make it work. I've personally never done a true torture session, so I'm not speaking from specific experience, but communicating generally makes things you otherwise couldn't do at the table possible and fun.
You can talk to your DM about what mechanics and guidelines will govern your torture session. I posted a set of mechanics earlier in the thread, which you can customize or take ideas from as appropriate to help build your session guidelines. You don't need to automatically lose, although if you agree with your DM that you will lose, you can play it out like that. Choosing that you will lose in advance and then losing can make a good plot point for your character arc and the campaign. Ultimately, as long as everyone is having fun at the table, you're playing D&D the right way.
And of course, if your torture session completely backfires and everyone leaves the table in a bad mood, at least you have a random guy on D&D beyond to blame for how poorly your session went. I went against the obvious majority opinion to tell you to do this, and if I was wrong, it's on me.
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
I feel that people don't give torture enough of a platform. I figure, physical torture doesn't have to be "your tied to a chair, BB asks a question, no answer or bad answer, you take 10 damage." That I can see going poorly. But for my session physical torture can also be throwing a man with no eyes in the ring with an enemy, give him a wooden sword against an enemy and start combat. Mind you in this combat, the player should feel at a disadvantage because every swing he makes he can't see what he's swinging at. Aggravation.... yes. Impossible? No. Only because of this...while my fighter may not be able to see, my fighter has a plus 9 to hit....even at a disadvantage, he could roll an 8 and still get 17 to hit... with that, he could totally still win. Now, imagine your this character and you just got your eyes ripped out and you get thrown into combat with a bear let's say. The idea for the BB is for you to lose, but what happens when he wins, how awesome would it be to know that even with your eyes gone you can still be a threat. It would feel like in the midst of torture you spit in the face of the one doing it... to me that would feel awesome. On the other hand, the torture comes into play when your put in a fight over and over again, and lose, not your life but your max hp drops because the more damage you take, the BB is sucking up your life force. The torture becomes not about losing this limb or that limb but about surviving. Endless battles where you keep getting healed to full health but your max HP starts decreasing... (also not worried a out his health pool because his hit die is a d20, he has ridiculous health points. So even if he gets 20 points off his max health he still has over a 100. Which is again, ridiculous. ). But by doing this, he gets to learn what kind of BB this is so that when he gets away, the harsh things he had to endure and survive become like a badge of awesomeness.
By the end of the session, the hunter should, if all goes well, be able to save him (the fighter) from torture and get him out, if for no other reason than because the BB is letting them go for the double agent to come into play later.
To me I think this could turn out to be pretty fun, rewarding and challenging... but hey, what the hell do I know lmao
I would certainly give it a try. Your idea sounds more like combat in unusual circumstances rather than what I imagined as physical torture. I would give it a go, and see what happens. Chances are, you'll have fun. Also, let me know what happened afterwards so I can change my views on this subject accordingly!
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Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
Short version: they loved it, they are dying for the next one and keep asking me questions trying to meta game at work.
Here's how I did it. At the end of the least session, the elite henchman fought the adventures and nearly lost but captured two of them. Right at the beginning of this one, I had both of my players in chains, on their knees, gagged. Then, I introduced my BB, the raven queen. Homebrew. Anyways, i did some theatrics over her overwhelming power and then I separated my players, told one to go in the other room (he didn't care he played computer). the one playing, I had hanging in an empty room bound with nothing but rope and a single door (unlocked), inviting the break out. He did. He had nothing, no weapon, in rags. After letting him kill a few of the guards with his bare hand (fighter) he fought one of the elite and he got destroyed. The next thing he knew he was waking up back in that room tied with rope again, inviting the breakout. He did. This went on for 3 attempts (the frustration was real)I made it span a few days or so so that hunger, thirst and exhaustion would play a part. Then he was summoned by the raven queen to have dinner of all things. Feast for a king. Treated him like he was the most desired thing on the planet as the raven queen and then made a deal with him, that he would be freed and released with a huge power up if he would become one of her "ravens," people she gives a boon too in exchange for their most powerful memory upon their death. No if ands or buts. All she wanted was his memory at the end. He took it so fast I couldn't believe it!. So after that, I escorted him out to meet someone (vamp) played by someone else not at the table, she bites him, drains him and he dies. His soul traveled up the fortress of memeories and was greeted by a spectral raven queen but stopped and turned back to his body by a single finger to his head. On the zip back, he hears the raven queen say that this deal is bound to the very soul and cannot be undone, but that he won't remember any of it. and then the next thing he knows he back in the room hanging from the ceiling. No escape attempt lol. Guards come and get him and throw him into a cage where vamps just lay into him. He fights but loses badly, right up to death. He dies. He is then Back in the room. I explained to him that this went on for a time he lost track of, days weeks months, not sure. But over time he grew into a vamp, a powerful vamp, and then he broke out and fileted the guards, even the elites. He went and saved the other player in attempts to get away and I stopped his session right as he found him.
He traded places with the other.
The next one was brought into a similar room hanging by a rope. He broke out, of course, beat the hell out of my guards and nearly killed an elite just with his bare hands (I over powered his character up for a dramatic reason later on) so I made a quick DM move and threw another elite at him as backup, he went down. Back to the cell. 1 more attempt. He is then bound, hands and ankles in irons and carried and thrown into a cell where he had to face a pack of wolves. He actually won. HE WAS SO HAPPY THAT HE KILLED THESE WOLVES WHILE RESTRAINED AND EXHAUSETED HE NEARLY FLEW OUT OF HIS CHAIR! That's when the raven queen turned on the lights, drank the souls of those that lost in the battle and then ripped out his eyes. He was knocked out and wakes up hanging in chains (different room) next to people. After a bit of backstory info about the raven queen, he was carried and thrown into a cell. Released from his bonds. And He then had to fight a match with no eyes, exhausted, against an ogre. He lost. Unconscious. The BB heals him and he wakes up hanging in chains in the different room...I explain that this goes on for a time unknown. Then out of nowhere, his players friend shows up to save him....
Then I called them both back together and they fought their way out of the fortress of memories (or at least the first floor). 1 player (no eyes) had level 5 exhaustion by the end and had to be carried. Then, they made their way back through the portal where they came from only to find the rest of their companions exactly where they were at the end of the previous battle some time ago. Like they haven't even moved.
I would use the standard DMG rules for social interactions, it is a social interaction like any other except of course the player is going to be at a disadvantage because they will be restrained and possibly exhaustion
I would not have the npc roll intimidation or persuasion v.s the player as I find that takes agency away.
The rules for damage would be the standard combat rules. I also wouldn't be too graphic, no more than I would be in a standard combat.
A time limit needs to be set or it will go for ever and get gratuitous. 3 checks is probably appropriate
I personally wouldn't run it as a full session it would just be something done over text messages because it sucks for other players to watch but might still need their input if for example the interrogated player tries to send a message or you might figure out how long it takes a rescue to come. So it would be over a messaging app and I'd simply ask who ever is relevant when needed.
For example:
Interrogator: " where is the rebel base"
player wants to lie " the base is in the sea"
Dm: roll deception
player get's 8 which on the hostile table means the npc thwarts them
Interrogator: " liar" and casts heat metal on the shackles
player takes 2d8 fire damage and has disadvantage on ability checks.
Player rolls persuasion " Im worth more to you alive"
player gets 21 on hostile that means they will do something with no risk.
Interrogater: stops heat metal and says " lock them up"
If they had failed then they'd take 20d8 damage which will probably reduce them to 0 then they make death saves as if defeated in combat. The interrogator would probably not do enough damage to out right kill them
I'm pretty much the only person here who isn't completely against use of physical torture in D&D, and I can explain why you're being advised not to use it, as well as why that advice may not be completely true. Some of these people might have had a game featuring it run poorly, but it's more likely that they're concerned because physical torture is not covered in any rules, and there is no obvious way to cover it.
Honestly it's neither of those things. People here come up with mechanics all the time. I'll give you my two reasons.
I object on moral grounds, and honestly reading "people don't give torture enough of a platform" may be the most uncomfortable I've ever been on this site. I don't play out torture for the same reason I don't include pedophilia or a slow death from cancer or crippling, relentless debt in my games. Yeah, I know games include murder which is also bad. Torture just crosses a line for me. People actually get tortured, and pretending it for fun in a fantasy game would just make me feel like a bad person. Is gruesomely describing methods of torture actually fun for anyone? I just don't get it. Just say, "you got tortured and now you don't have eyes."
As has been brought up here before, there is no character agency to these scenes. There are no choices for the PCs to make during them. They can resist, but is that really a choice? Can they actually change the outcome? Being helpless is pretty much a requirement for torture. It didn't matter how many times baconbitz's fighter tried to escape, he still got railroaded to the same conclusion. I don't entirely object to predetermined outcomes in a game, but I prefer the DM is just straightforward about it and describes it as the cutscene it is. You can do a roll to see how long they held out if you think that makes for better storytelling, but then just move on.
Your objection is understood. However, I feel deep down that "you got tortured, now you don't have eyes" lacks a certain, well anything to be frank. There's is no excitement, there is no drama, more importantly, there is no role-playing, there is no exploration, and there is no combat, which are the actual 3 pillars of d&d. Now, as for the moral dilemma, in reality there are all those things (****, torture, child trafficking, etc). To pretend that they don't would be the fantasy. These things do happen, and so for one reason alone I put them in my game...because in reality, your are helpless to that truth, these things happen and can't do anything. But in a world of fantasy, where you are quite literally building heroes to (most of the time) battle the forces of darkness, they have the power to do something about it. And they everytime do....and when you get to throw a fireball at someone who you know is a child trafficker, it feels so good to the player to have been responsible for righting that wrong.
Now as for the scenes being railroaded, what I wrote down was a very brief and not well detailed summary of what happened, I'll give you that. But in my game, when they were hanging there, the singular decision to just hang there or try to escape opens up a plethora of choices, i feel. Which way to go? Which way is out? Where is my friend? All of these were thought out and played out by the players. And each was another choice, left or right, inside, outside, over here or over there. They played it all out by themselves. Now, I'll admit that some of my scenes were set up in a more theatrical way to where there was no choice, i.e. the intro to the raven queen. One of my players actually hit on the raven queen. I damn near fell out of my seat laughing because the choices he made. Nonetheless, did what they do have any change on the outcome? I feel so, yes. You used the fighters situation. Did I plan it out this way, yes. But that doesn't mean it had to. There was a part where the fighter, Siff, kept trying to escape. He broke out time after time, found a secret door that led him to one place, killed the guards and went through certain doors at another place. At one point he was one room away from leaving, had he left I would have made it go that way and changed my story. But knowing my characters would always go back for one another and trying to figure how they would handle a situations when I'm writing is kind of one of the key aspects of being a dm. I feel.
But more importantly, they had fun and I had fun. So there's that.
I'm pretty much the only person here who isn't completely against use of physical torture in D&D, and I can explain why you're being advised not to use it, as well as why that advice may not be completely true. Some of these people might have had a game featuring it run poorly, but it's more likely that they're concerned because physical torture is not covered in any rules, and there is no obvious way to cover it.
Honestly it's neither of those things. People here come up with mechanics all the time. I'll give you my two reasons.
I object on moral grounds, and honestly reading "people don't give torture enough of a platform" may be the most uncomfortable I've ever been on this site. I don't play out torture for the same reason I don't include pedophilia or a slow death from cancer or crippling, relentless debt in my games. Yeah, I know games include murder which is also bad. Torture just crosses a line for me. People actually get tortured, and pretending it for fun in a fantasy game would just make me feel like a bad person. Is gruesomely describing methods of torture actually fun for anyone? I just don't get it. Just say, "you got tortured and now you don't have eyes."
As has been brought up here before, there is no character agency to these scenes. There are no choices for the PCs to make during them. They can resist, but is that really a choice? Can they actually change the outcome? Being helpless is pretty much a requirement for torture. It didn't matter how many times baconbitz's fighter tried to escape, he still got railroaded to the same conclusion. I don't entirely object to predetermined outcomes in a game, but I prefer the DM is just straightforward about it and describes it as the cutscene it is. You can do a roll to see how long they held out if you think that makes for better storytelling, but then just move on.
I agree with point 1, and I think many players that I play with would generally agree with it. This doesn't align with those players fun. I have written backstories with this and that's all in the past and nothing more than a character discussion point. Actually doing it player vs. npc, or npc to player, generally isn't interesting. Friends or Charm Person are probably more effective anyway, within a Zone of Truth.
On point 2, I disagree there can be player agency. Especially if you tie it with another event, like holding out long enough to escape. See Suicide Squad (the second one), or Lethal Weapon. Some players like that angle of suffering heroism even though most don't like the general ethics of it for a story. But there is a lot to be desired on the execution (bad pun) of the scenario, that is either uncomfortable or unfulfilling.
Your mileage will vary. Happy to hear the OP's players were cool with it.
Those mechanics A) don't work very well and B) are not fun.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
physical torture never works.
I will say anything to get you to stop. You could torture me for a week solid and never know what if anything I said was true or not.
Coercion, bribery, interrogation, any other skills, and magic are the best bet.
There are at least 6 spells that can effect a creatures mind into helping you. Not counting a few spells that you can use to ask a higher power for information.
Well john. Now that we have you here safe with us we are going to remove the spell that we placed on you making you forget you were a spy for us. (now implant memories that he was a spy) (They do not have to be real good. The first spell was so good it blocked out all those old memories.) All those old memories will come back in time John, we hope.
John we need you to go back to those people and start to get us more information on what they are doing( place a GEAS on him)
Once your his friend and he believes you he will tell you everything.
In all actuality this is part of the characters decision. His Character was made to be one of the most heroic, most awe inspiring, most resilient, most adamant characters damn near able to withstand anything.... now in a narrative, what is it to have a character built to come through anything if he can't get through what the big bad dishes out. Doesn't make sense... so We decided that his character would be the first to taste the wrath, the power, and decide where his character would go after in order to overcome it.
When it comes to being tortured as RP experience, it was my character who decided he wanted to be deformed, he wanted to be broken, so that when he gets away, he can make a strong Chara ter comeback. As a DM I thought it was a pretty cool idea.
Normally I wouldn't consider it, but that's why it is all going to take place in a 1-player session one shot. It will be a character development, or in the case, a character tribulation to overcome. Which is why I asked for help.
If he is just looking for a story then skip the physical stuff and stick to magic.
He could be ganged up by pro inquisitors who really know how to alter memories and cause terror. Terror so deep he is mentally damaged.
Its going to be harder to handle the mental PTSD problems. Make sure the player understands and agree on a timeline or milestones for him to heal.
You know, everyone keeps telling me not to do physical? I'm having hard time figuring out why. It's not fun for anybody? If my DM came asking me about ways to further my character and we discussed things and came up with some awesome ideas...as long as those ideas were implemented into the story and it turned into a good story and really fun to play, why would I care the way he went about doing it? And more to the point, if we discussed things and I knew what I was going to loose, just not when and I was fine with it, then why would I not have fun RP it?
Can someone explain that to me?
And I see more and more this changing memories, that is a pretty cool idea. I might make that part of my session for one of them too
Because physical torture is basically combat except the enemy auto-hits you every round and you don't get to take any actions.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
That seems like an awfully poor way to runt things...
If the story about torture is all you really need then just write it up and skip actually doing it.
The PC disappeared for a while and came back all roughed up. Or if you do not want all the other players to know about it yet then heal the character and have him come back with any other excuse for his absence.
I'm pretty much the only person here who isn't completely against use of physical torture in D&D, and I can explain why you're being advised not to use it, as well as why that advice may not be completely true. Some of these people might have had a game featuring it run poorly, but it's more likely that they're concerned because physical torture is not covered in any rules, and there is no obvious way to cover it. Dealing unavoidable physical damage is seen as a problem, and it can be frustrating for D&D players to be forced into roleplay.
Physical torture can probably work if there is enough discussion of it between those involved. If both the player(s) and DM discuss the torture session in advance and above the table, setting up clear guidelines and rules, the session can go smoothly. One of the largest restrictors to what a D&D group can do with their game is a lack of above-the-table communication between players and DMs, and if you overcome that barrier, you might be able to make it work. I've personally never done a true torture session, so I'm not speaking from specific experience, but communicating generally makes things you otherwise couldn't do at the table possible and fun.
You can talk to your DM about what mechanics and guidelines will govern your torture session. I posted a set of mechanics earlier in the thread, which you can customize or take ideas from as appropriate to help build your session guidelines. You don't need to automatically lose, although if you agree with your DM that you will lose, you can play it out like that. Choosing that you will lose in advance and then losing can make a good plot point for your character arc and the campaign. Ultimately, as long as everyone is having fun at the table, you're playing D&D the right way.
And of course, if your torture session completely backfires and everyone leaves the table in a bad mood, at least you have a random guy on D&D beyond to blame for how poorly your session went. I went against the obvious majority opinion to tell you to do this, and if I was wrong, it's on me.
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
I feel that people don't give torture enough of a platform. I figure, physical torture doesn't have to be "your tied to a chair, BB asks a question, no answer or bad answer, you take 10 damage." That I can see going poorly. But for my session physical torture can also be throwing a man with no eyes in the ring with an enemy, give him a wooden sword against an enemy and start combat. Mind you in this combat, the player should feel at a disadvantage because every swing he makes he can't see what he's swinging at. Aggravation.... yes. Impossible? No. Only because of this...while my fighter may not be able to see, my fighter has a plus 9 to hit....even at a disadvantage, he could roll an 8 and still get 17 to hit... with that, he could totally still win. Now, imagine your this character and you just got your eyes ripped out and you get thrown into combat with a bear let's say. The idea for the BB is for you to lose, but what happens when he wins, how awesome would it be to know that even with your eyes gone you can still be a threat. It would feel like in the midst of torture you spit in the face of the one doing it... to me that would feel awesome. On the other hand, the torture comes into play when your put in a fight over and over again, and lose, not your life but your max hp drops because the more damage you take, the BB is sucking up your life force. The torture becomes not about losing this limb or that limb but about surviving. Endless battles where you keep getting healed to full health but your max HP starts decreasing... (also not worried a out his health pool because his hit die is a d20, he has ridiculous health points. So even if he gets 20 points off his max health he still has over a 100. Which is again, ridiculous. ). But by doing this, he gets to learn what kind of BB this is so that when he gets away, the harsh things he had to endure and survive become like a badge of awesomeness.
By the end of the session, the hunter should, if all goes well, be able to save him (the fighter) from torture and get him out, if for no other reason than because the BB is letting them go for the double agent to come into play later.
To me I think this could turn out to be pretty fun, rewarding and challenging... but hey, what the hell do I know lmao
I would certainly give it a try. Your idea sounds more like combat in unusual circumstances rather than what I imagined as physical torture. I would give it a go, and see what happens. Chances are, you'll have fun. Also, let me know what happened afterwards so I can change my views on this subject accordingly!
Panda-wat (I hate my username) is somehow convinced that he is objectively right about everything D&D related even though he obviously is not. Considering that, he'd probably make a great D&D youtuber.
"If I die, I can live with that." ~Luke Hart, the DM lair
So. I did it. I tortured my PCs. ..
Short version: they loved it, they are dying for the next one and keep asking me questions trying to meta game at work.
Here's how I did it. At the end of the least session, the elite henchman fought the adventures and nearly lost but captured two of them. Right at the beginning of this one, I had both of my players in chains, on their knees, gagged. Then, I introduced my BB, the raven queen. Homebrew. Anyways, i did some theatrics over her overwhelming power and then I separated my players, told one to go in the other room (he didn't care he played computer). the one playing, I had hanging in an empty room bound with nothing but rope and a single door (unlocked), inviting the break out. He did. He had nothing, no weapon, in rags. After letting him kill a few of the guards with his bare hand (fighter) he fought one of the elite and he got destroyed. The next thing he knew he was waking up back in that room tied with rope again, inviting the breakout. He did. This went on for 3 attempts (the frustration was real)I made it span a few days or so so that hunger, thirst and exhaustion would play a part. Then he was summoned by the raven queen to have dinner of all things. Feast for a king. Treated him like he was the most desired thing on the planet as the raven queen and then made a deal with him, that he would be freed and released with a huge power up if he would become one of her "ravens," people she gives a boon too in exchange for their most powerful memory upon their death. No if ands or buts. All she wanted was his memory at the end. He took it so fast I couldn't believe it!. So after that, I escorted him out to meet someone (vamp) played by someone else not at the table, she bites him, drains him and he dies. His soul traveled up the fortress of memeories and was greeted by a spectral raven queen but stopped and turned back to his body by a single finger to his head. On the zip back, he hears the raven queen say that this deal is bound to the very soul and cannot be undone, but that he won't remember any of it. and then the next thing he knows he back in the room hanging from the ceiling. No escape attempt lol. Guards come and get him and throw him into a cage where vamps just lay into him. He fights but loses badly, right up to death. He dies. He is then Back in the room. I explained to him that this went on for a time he lost track of, days weeks months, not sure. But over time he grew into a vamp, a powerful vamp, and then he broke out and fileted the guards, even the elites. He went and saved the other player in attempts to get away and I stopped his session right as he found him.
He traded places with the other.
The next one was brought into a similar room hanging by a rope. He broke out, of course, beat the hell out of my guards and nearly killed an elite just with his bare hands (I over powered his character up for a dramatic reason later on) so I made a quick DM move and threw another elite at him as backup, he went down. Back to the cell. 1 more attempt. He is then bound, hands and ankles in irons and carried and thrown into a cell where he had to face a pack of wolves. He actually won. HE WAS SO HAPPY THAT HE KILLED THESE WOLVES WHILE RESTRAINED AND EXHAUSETED HE NEARLY FLEW OUT OF HIS CHAIR! That's when the raven queen turned on the lights, drank the souls of those that lost in the battle and then ripped out his eyes. He was knocked out and wakes up hanging in chains (different room) next to people. After a bit of backstory info about the raven queen, he was carried and thrown into a cell. Released from his bonds. And He then had to fight a match with no eyes, exhausted, against an ogre. He lost. Unconscious. The BB heals him and he wakes up hanging in chains in the different room...I explain that this goes on for a time unknown. Then out of nowhere, his players friend shows up to save him....
Then I called them both back together and they fought their way out of the fortress of memories (or at least the first floor). 1 player (no eyes) had level 5 exhaustion by the end and had to be carried. Then, they made their way back through the portal where they came from only to find the rest of their companions exactly where they were at the end of the previous battle some time ago. Like they haven't even moved.
Some general notes:
For example:
Interrogator: " where is the rebel base"
player wants to lie " the base is in the sea"
Dm: roll deception
player get's 8 which on the hostile table means the npc thwarts them
Interrogator: " liar" and casts heat metal on the shackles
player takes 2d8 fire damage and has disadvantage on ability checks.
Player rolls persuasion " Im worth more to you alive"
player gets 21 on hostile that means they will do something with no risk.
Interrogater: stops heat metal and says " lock them up"
If they had failed then they'd take 20d8 damage which will probably reduce them to 0 then they make death saves as if defeated in combat. The interrogator would probably not do enough damage to out right kill them
Honestly it's neither of those things. People here come up with mechanics all the time. I'll give you my two reasons.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
That's a bit harsh don't you think?
Your objection is understood. However, I feel deep down that "you got tortured, now you don't have eyes" lacks a certain, well anything to be frank. There's is no excitement, there is no drama, more importantly, there is no role-playing, there is no exploration, and there is no combat, which are the actual 3 pillars of d&d. Now, as for the moral dilemma, in reality there are all those things (****, torture, child trafficking, etc). To pretend that they don't would be the fantasy. These things do happen, and so for one reason alone I put them in my game...because in reality, your are helpless to that truth, these things happen and can't do anything. But in a world of fantasy, where you are quite literally building heroes to (most of the time) battle the forces of darkness, they have the power to do something about it. And they everytime do....and when you get to throw a fireball at someone who you know is a child trafficker, it feels so good to the player to have been responsible for righting that wrong.
Now as for the scenes being railroaded, what I wrote down was a very brief and not well detailed summary of what happened, I'll give you that. But in my game, when they were hanging there, the singular decision to just hang there or try to escape opens up a plethora of choices, i feel. Which way to go? Which way is out? Where is my friend? All of these were thought out and played out by the players. And each was another choice, left or right, inside, outside, over here or over there. They played it all out by themselves. Now, I'll admit that some of my scenes were set up in a more theatrical way to where there was no choice, i.e. the intro to the raven queen. One of my players actually hit on the raven queen. I damn near fell out of my seat laughing because the choices he made. Nonetheless, did what they do have any change on the outcome? I feel so, yes. You used the fighters situation. Did I plan it out this way, yes. But that doesn't mean it had to. There was a part where the fighter, Siff, kept trying to escape. He broke out time after time, found a secret door that led him to one place, killed the guards and went through certain doors at another place. At one point he was one room away from leaving, had he left I would have made it go that way and changed my story. But knowing my characters would always go back for one another and trying to figure how they would handle a situations when I'm writing is kind of one of the key aspects of being a dm. I feel.
But more importantly, they had fun and I had fun. So there's that.
I agree with point 1, and I think many players that I play with would generally agree with it. This doesn't align with those players fun. I have written backstories with this and that's all in the past and nothing more than a character discussion point. Actually doing it player vs. npc, or npc to player, generally isn't interesting. Friends or Charm Person are probably more effective anyway, within a Zone of Truth.
On point 2, I disagree there can be player agency. Especially if you tie it with another event, like holding out long enough to escape. See Suicide Squad (the second one), or Lethal Weapon. Some players like that angle of suffering heroism even though most don't like the general ethics of it for a story. But there is a lot to be desired on the execution (bad pun) of the scenario, that is either uncomfortable or unfulfilling.
Your mileage will vary. Happy to hear the OP's players were cool with it.