Agreed! I am not trying to argue we should all be out here doing kinematic equations at the table. Alls I'm trying to say is there's no clear-cut mechanically correct answer to whether or not the Immovable Rod should stop an airship.
There is and it's right there in the Immovable Rod's description.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I personally love the immovable rod specifically because it can be used in (almost) all those ways you listed and more. Let the players be creative with it, that’s kinda the point of the game, to come up with creative ways to overcome challenges.
That’s my favorite part of being a DM, seeing what crazy solutions they come up with to the challenges I throw at them. I love letting them find things like the immovable rod, pitcher of endless water, hat of disguise, etc and seeing what they come up with. If they are breezing through things easily because of having some of those, that just means I need to step up my game in the challenges I throw at them!
Agreed. I also regularly throw challenges at the party that I legitimately have absolutely no clue how they’re gonna overcome them, but they pretty much always manage.
Ha, I thought I was the only one who did that! I threw one at them not long ago, no idea how they would get out of it, and they managed to come up with a solution that involved, among other things, the Druid turning in to a crab, the barbarian dressed like Puccini’s sad clown, a decanter of endless water and the corruption of a priest! They asked me afterwards how I planned for them to get out of the situation and it was so hard to tell them I had NO idea
Agreed! I am not trying to argue we should all be out here doing kinematic equations at the table. Alls I'm trying to say is there's no clear-cut mechanically correct answer to whether or not the Immovable Rod should stop an airship.
There is and it's right there in the Immovable Rod's description.
Buddy, I just think you're mistaken about how weight works. I don't know what else to tell you.
I personally love the immovable rod specifically because it can be used in (almost) all those ways you listed and more. Let the players be creative with it, that’s kinda the point of the game, to come up with creative ways to overcome challenges.
That’s my favorite part of being a DM, seeing what crazy solutions they come up with to the challenges I throw at them. I love letting them find things like the immovable rod, pitcher of endless water, hat of disguise, etc and seeing what they come up with. If they are breezing through things easily because of having some of those, that just means I need to step up my game in the challenges I throw at them!
Agreed. I also regularly throw challenges at the party that I legitimately have absolutely no clue how they’re gonna overcome them, but they pretty much always manage.
Ha, I thought I was the only one who did that! I threw one at them not long ago, no idea how they would get out of it, and they managed to come up with a solution that involved, among other things, the Druid turning in to a crab, the barbarian dressed like Puccini’s sad clown, a decanter of endless water and the corruption of a priest! They asked me afterwards how I planned for them to get out of the situation and it was so hard to tell them I had NO idea
My answer to that question is always the same. “It’s my job as DM to place challenges in front of you, it’s your job as players to come up with the solutions.”
The ropes used to tie down modern ships are A) enormous, like thicker around than your arm, B) made from modern synthetics that are significantly stronger than traditional rope and C) they use a lot of ropes to tie the airship down at many points. If the passengers and crew of the ship you're trying to take is able to fight back, it's not really much of a strategy.
A) They used rope to tie down historical battleships too, though. And I did specifically mention they'd be tricky to throw.
B) seems irrelevant.
C) Now, if I'm correctly informed, they'd use a couple of anchor ropes, and a number of guide ropes. This, admittedly, is fairly shaky for me, but I think someone told me basically that: A large rope at either end, and smaller ropes to counter wind movement and what not.
All of which doesn't really affect my main point: Are you sure the rope would snap? You don't know the size or mass of the airship, or the quality or strength of the rope. So how can you be sure?
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If you're trying to stop a ship from moving and the ship itself is actively trying to move, one rope is not going to be sufficient to stop it. The rope is going to break.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
If you're trying to stop a ship from moving and the ship itself is actively trying to move, one rope is not going to be sufficient to stop it. The rope is going to break.
Not all ships are created equal. Nor are all ropes. But more importantly, we're not discussing ships, but airships. A large, fundamental even, difference between ships and airships, is mass. Compare to a childs balloon - on a plastic stick. The stick will hold a balloon, but if the ballon was made from solid timber beans, it wouldn't.
In much the same way, the thigh-thick rope that would hold a galleon, might be oversized to hold a lighter-than-air airship. Actually, an ordinary rope might. I dunno. Are you really sure you do?
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If you're trying to stop a ship from moving and the ship itself is actively trying to move, one rope is not going to be sufficient to stop it. The rope is going to break.
Ropes are also very easy to get rid of. One ornery dragonborn cook storming up on deck to find out what all the commotion is should do the trick
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The rope does not have to hold the ship in place, ships could be a 20,000 pounds or more easy. You need a rope that can hold the rod with a known weight of 8,000 pounds to move. The rod will move before the ship is stopped. Maybe double that for any shock stress. But it doesn't have to be some huge diameter rope.
An IMrod could be used to slow down and eventually stop a ship though. Either water or air ship.
Just remember that any sailor with a sharp knife could cut a rope.
i've always been more curious about an immovable rod activated in a sailing ship's hold: does it remaining relative to the room and hang in the air or does it plow through the side of the ship (because surely the wood fails at less than 8000 lbs, right?)
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I did, and told the players I was excited to see how they used it. in over a year real-time, they used it once, in a fairly dubious way (using it as part of a reaction while falling) I allowed because I wanted to see it used.
I now tell them that this is why they can't have nice things. :-)
I'd like to point out that an IR can only hold up to 8000 lbs and the average sailing ship is significantly heavier than that.
Sure, but it's not holding the ship up from falling, it's holding the ship back from moving. In this case I think the force involved would be the difference of the vector produced by the ship's propulsion minus the vector of air resistance, which doesn't necessarily need to be greater than the weight of the ship. You'd then need to calculate the individual force on each Immovable Rod based on the angle of the ropes. Or, rather than stopping the session to do Physics! you could just issue a DM fiat that the ropes hold or break (I would base this on whether or not my players brought snacks).
But my point is it's not super clear cut and either way is fine.
I suspect that the force of the airship attempting to move would just rip the railing right off the deck causing the ropes and those holding them to plummet to the ground as the railing breaks free.
Railings typically aren't structural and wouldn't take a significant amount of force.
If the IR were installed at a key structural location then they would either stop the ship from moving or end up ripping it apart depending on the amount of force applied. Most airships are fairly light structurally so again my guess would be that attaching an IR or two at key structural locations while engaging the propulsion system might well rip the airship apart or at least result in the propulsion system and mounting structure detaching from the airship, possibly catastrophically. Again depends on whether the airship structure is designed to take the full force of the propulsion system while being prevented from moving at an unexpected point.
It's a cool idea that might likely work in fantasy D&D but has some possible issues if applied to the real world.
i've always been more curious about an immovable rod activated in a sailing ship's hold: does it remaining relative to the room and hang in the air or does it plow through the side of the ship (because surely the wood fails at less than 8000 lbs, right?)
I'd usually have it plow through the side of the ship. However, the question of what frame of reference is used to anchor the rod is a good one. Depending on whether your planets rotate and/or follow an orbit, there are several reference frames you can choose to make the item immovable. In terms of making the items useful, those reference frames are just a good way to make it useless so I usually just pick the local planetary surface as the reference frame.
In terms of the OP question. IR is not overpowered or even an issue in most cases. I have a character in my game with two and the most interesting use they have made of it is to climb in mid air by alternating the rods. They are also using one as a haft for a weapon so that they can use it quickly if an opportunity comes up.
The rods are activated by pushing a button at the end which fixes them in place so there is no opportunity to throw them or do anything else strange. The item has to be placed exactly where you want it before activating.
A potentially far more disruptive magic item that can be used to bypass far more situations is Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments. Magically creating, adding or deleting stuff by painting an image can be a very powerful tool. Paint a small pit over the lock on a door and the lock goes away :). Paint a small tunnel to bypass a trap or other obstruction or paint several to tunnel where you want. Chop down a tree by painting out a piece of the trunk or paint an axe and chop it down the usual way. The paints have far more imaginative uses than the IR will ever have :)
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There is and it's right there in the Immovable Rod's description.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Ha, I thought I was the only one who did that! I threw one at them not long ago, no idea how they would get out of it, and they managed to come up with a solution that involved, among other things, the Druid turning in to a crab, the barbarian dressed like Puccini’s sad clown, a decanter of endless water and the corruption of a priest! They asked me afterwards how I planned for them to get out of the situation and it was so hard to tell them I had NO idea
Buddy, I just think you're mistaken about how weight works. I don't know what else to tell you.
My answer to that question is always the same. “It’s my job as DM to place challenges in front of you, it’s your job as players to come up with the solutions.”
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A) They used rope to tie down historical battleships too, though. And I did specifically mention they'd be tricky to throw.
B) seems irrelevant.
C) Now, if I'm correctly informed, they'd use a couple of anchor ropes, and a number of guide ropes. This, admittedly, is fairly shaky for me, but I think someone told me basically that: A large rope at either end, and smaller ropes to counter wind movement and what not.
All of which doesn't really affect my main point: Are you sure the rope would snap? You don't know the size or mass of the airship, or the quality or strength of the rope. So how can you be sure?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
If you're trying to stop a ship from moving and the ship itself is actively trying to move, one rope is not going to be sufficient to stop it. The rope is going to break.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Not all ships are created equal. Nor are all ropes. But more importantly, we're not discussing ships, but airships. A large, fundamental even, difference between ships and airships, is mass. Compare to a childs balloon - on a plastic stick. The stick will hold a balloon, but if the ballon was made from solid timber beans, it wouldn't.
In much the same way, the thigh-thick rope that would hold a galleon, might be oversized to hold a lighter-than-air airship. Actually, an ordinary rope might. I dunno. Are you really sure you do?
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
Ropes are also very easy to get rid of. One ornery dragonborn cook storming up on deck to find out what all the commotion is should do the trick
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I don't think the rod is overpowered. It's just another cool thing that the party can use to pull off interesting solutions.
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As for the rope problem.
The rope does not have to hold the ship in place, ships could be a 20,000 pounds or more easy. You need a rope that can hold the rod with a known weight of 8,000 pounds to move. The rod will move before the ship is stopped. Maybe double that for any shock stress. But it doesn't have to be some huge diameter rope.
An IMrod could be used to slow down and eventually stop a ship though. Either water or air ship.
Just remember that any sailor with a sharp knife could cut a rope.
i've always been more curious about an immovable rod activated in a sailing ship's hold: does it remaining relative to the room and hang in the air or does it plow through the side of the ship (because surely the wood fails at less than 8000 lbs, right?)
unhappy at the way in which we lost individual purchases for one-off subclasses, magic items, and monsters?
tell them you don't like features disappeared quietly in the night: provide feedback!
I did, and told the players I was excited to see how they used it. in over a year real-time, they used it once, in a fairly dubious way (using it as part of a reaction while falling) I allowed because I wanted to see it used.
I now tell them that this is why they can't have nice things. :-)
I suspect that the force of the airship attempting to move would just rip the railing right off the deck causing the ropes and those holding them to plummet to the ground as the railing breaks free.
Railings typically aren't structural and wouldn't take a significant amount of force.
If the IR were installed at a key structural location then they would either stop the ship from moving or end up ripping it apart depending on the amount of force applied. Most airships are fairly light structurally so again my guess would be that attaching an IR or two at key structural locations while engaging the propulsion system might well rip the airship apart or at least result in the propulsion system and mounting structure detaching from the airship, possibly catastrophically. Again depends on whether the airship structure is designed to take the full force of the propulsion system while being prevented from moving at an unexpected point.
It's a cool idea that might likely work in fantasy D&D but has some possible issues if applied to the real world.
I'd usually have it plow through the side of the ship. However, the question of what frame of reference is used to anchor the rod is a good one. Depending on whether your planets rotate and/or follow an orbit, there are several reference frames you can choose to make the item immovable. In terms of making the items useful, those reference frames are just a good way to make it useless so I usually just pick the local planetary surface as the reference frame.
In terms of the OP question. IR is not overpowered or even an issue in most cases. I have a character in my game with two and the most interesting use they have made of it is to climb in mid air by alternating the rods. They are also using one as a haft for a weapon so that they can use it quickly if an opportunity comes up.
The rods are activated by pushing a button at the end which fixes them in place so there is no opportunity to throw them or do anything else strange. The item has to be placed exactly where you want it before activating.
A potentially far more disruptive magic item that can be used to bypass far more situations is Nolzur's Marvelous Pigments. Magically creating, adding or deleting stuff by painting an image can be a very powerful tool. Paint a small pit over the lock on a door and the lock goes away :). Paint a small tunnel to bypass a trap or other obstruction or paint several to tunnel where you want. Chop down a tree by painting out a piece of the trunk or paint an axe and chop it down the usual way. The paints have far more imaginative uses than the IR will ever have :)