The immovable rod. Something I have been avoiding since I’ve started dming. Don’t get me wrong, I love it when my players are creative in solving their problems, but is too much creativity a thing? You know, they might use it to pin a creature to the ground, not take any fall damage, cheese vertical travel, run carnival scams, attach it to a rope and throw it up into the air to grapple off of nothing etc.. Maybe I fret over nothing but it seems pretty cheeseable. Have you ever used the rod in your campaigns? Did you regret it?
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When in doubt throw the naked, fingerless, thief that you’ve been keeping in a sack and feeding rotten squirrels to into the fireworks tent hoping that it causes an explosion.
I've not found it to be nearly the issue that the theory-crafting of the internet would have one believe. And if it does start becoming an issue because your players find putting those theories to the test, that's what monsters with abilities like the Conclave Dryad are for.
Suppress Magic (Recharge 5–6). The dryad targets one magic item it can see within 120 feet of it. If the magic item isn’t an artifact, its magical properties are suppressed for 10 minutes, until the dryad is incapacitated or dies, or until the dryad uses a bonus action to end the effect.
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"The mongoose blew out its candle and was asleep in bed before the room went dark." —Llanowar fable
an old dm of mine made use of the ol' IR. some pirates used them to capture an airship and it was really cool. the IRs were placed on the inside of the railing and ropes were tied to them. the airship could not move because there were IRs at the aft and the pirates could climb up the ropes onto the ship
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In that situation, the ropes should have snapped before the airship was stopped.
Are you sure? I hear they used - and use - ropes to tether airships. Of course, not all ropes are created equal. Some ropes can hold a battleship, but those are tricky to throw =D
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Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The ropes used to tie down modern ships are A) enormous, like thicker around than your arm, B) made from modern synthetics that are significantly stronger than traditional rope and C) they use a lot of ropes to tie the airship down at many points. If the passengers and crew of the ship you're trying to take is able to fight back, it's not really much of a strategy.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I have not found it to be broken. It takes a lot of creativity to really use it effectively, and things like the old classic of pinning a creature down to make a fight easier are easily balanced by having them do proper skill checks for pulling off knocking a creature down and getting the rod pressed down in to them enough to actually pin them to the point that they cant move or wiggle out, which when you think about it is a lot harder than you'd think at first glance.
It is also a really fun item that can lead to the party flexing their creativity and out of the box thinking to get creative with solutions. My current party has had one since pretty early on and have used it effectively to come up with some great solutions and options. My favorite is that the fighter had his shield modified so that it has a mount on the back that the rod can fit in to which lets him place his shield in a place and have it stay there. They have used it to effectively trap creatures in corners, block doors/passages to control enemy movement and create improvised cover for situations with none. Its been a lot of fun!
I've not found it to be nearly the issue that the theory-crafting of the internet would have one believe. And if it does start becoming an issue because your players find putting those theories to the test, that's what monsters with abilities like the Conclave Dryad are for.
Suppress Magic (Recharge 5–6). The dryad targets one magic item it can see within 120 feet of it. If the magic item isn’t an artifact, its magical properties are suppressed for 10 minutes, until the dryad is incapacitated or dies, or until the dryad uses a bonus action to end the effect.
This, plus as an Uncommon magic item I would say the Immovable Rod's magical effect could be estimated to be equivalent to a 2nd level or lower spell. By this logic, I would allow a character to use Dispel Magic to deactivate the Immovable Rod. I'm aware that ruling is contrary to existing errata, but it gives me a nice escape hatch out of some of the more abusive use cases.
Addendum: for what it's worth I think it's good to give your players the tools to outsmart you sometimes. You just want to avoid a situation where they're using the same trick to solve all their problems.
In that situation, the ropes should have snapped before the airship was stopped.
possibly, but there were two IRs at the back of the ship, preventing it from moving forward
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Alignment: Lawful Evil
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I'd like to point out that an IR can only hold up to 8000 lbs and the average sailing ship is significantly heavier than that.
Sure, but it's not holding the ship up from falling, it's holding the ship back from moving. In this case I think the force involved would be the difference of the vector produced by the ship's propulsion minus the vector of air resistance, which doesn't necessarily need to be greater than the weight of the ship. You'd then need to calculate the individual force on each Immovable Rod based on the angle of the ropes. Or, rather than stopping the session to do Physics! you could just issue a DM fiat that the ropes hold or break (I would base this on whether or not my players brought snacks).
But my point is it's not super clear cut and either way is fine.
The immovable rod. Something I have been avoiding since I’ve started dming. Don’t get me wrong, I love it when my players are creative in solving their problems, but is too much creativity a thing? You know, they might use it to 1) pin a creature to the ground, 2) not take any fall damage, 3) cheese vertical travel, 4) run carnival scams, 5) attach it to a rope and throw it up into the air to grapple off of nothing etc.. Maybe I fret over nothing but it seems pretty cheeseable. Have you ever used the rod in your campaigns? Did you regret it?
It's only as powerful as the DM allows it to be:
1) What's the DC on the creature's Acrobatics check to wiggle/slide out from under it? What's the DC on the Arcana check to recognize what it is and simply deactivate it? Hey, cool, free Immovable Rod. Thanks, adventurer! 2) What's the DC on the character's Athletics check to hang onto the rod in midair when they activate it? 3) Well, yeah, that's one of its main uses, as an anchor point for climbing or securing a rope 4) Sounds creative 5) If you just throw the rod up into the air, who's pressing the button to lock it in place?
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Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I would say that they would slow down the ship to make boarding easier but not stop it unless there was almost no sail up.
Using one as an anchor for an airship would be pretty good.
If you have two you could climb with them but with only one no way.
Holding people down? Its almost impossible to pin someone down when wrestling. And if you could pin them down and then someone else gets a chance to put the rod onto them while you hold them down why not just kill them while they are held down by your buddy?
I personally love the immovable rod specifically because it can be used in (almost) all those ways you listed and more. Let the players be creative with it, that’s kinda the point of the game, to come up with creative ways to overcome challenges.
I personally love the immovable rod specifically because it can be used in (almost) all those ways you listed and more. Let the players be creative with it, that’s kinda the point of the game, to come up with creative ways to overcome challenges.
That’s my favorite part of being a DM, seeing what crazy solutions they come up with to the challenges I throw at them. I love letting them find things like the immovable rod, pitcher of endless water, hat of disguise, etc and seeing what they come up with. If they are breezing through things easily because of having some of those, that just means I need to step up my game in the challenges I throw at them!
I'd like to point out that an IR can only hold up to 8000 lbs and the average sailing ship is significantly heavier than that.
Sure, but it's not holding the ship up from falling, it's holding the ship back from moving.
Irrelevant because the description says that the rod stops working if it tries to hold more than 8000 lbs of weight. The direction isn't specified, so whether the ship is pushing down or pushing sideways isn't a factor.
In this case I think the force involved would be the difference of the vector produced by the ship's propulsion minus the vector of air resistance, which doesn't necessarily need to be greater than the weight of the ship. You'd then need to calculate the individual force on each Immovable Rod based on the angle of the ropes. Or, rather than stopping the session to do Physics! you could just issue a DM fiat that the ropes hold or break (I would base this on whether or not my players brought snacks).
But my point is it's not super clear cut and either way is fine.
Nope, wouldn't need to do any of that, either, because force isn't a consideration for whether or not the rod stops something, only weight. The description is clear: if you go over the weight limit, the rod deactivates.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I'd like to point out that an IR can only hold up to 8000 lbs and the average sailing ship is significantly heavier than that.
Sure, but it's not holding the ship up from falling, it's holding the ship back from moving.
Irrelevant because the description says that the rod stops working if it tries to hold more than 8000 lbs of weight. The direction isn't specified, so whether the ship is pushing down or pushing sideways isn't a factor.
In this case I think the force involved would be the difference of the vector produced by the ship's propulsion minus the vector of air resistance, which doesn't necessarily need to be greater than the weight of the ship. You'd then need to calculate the individual force on each Immovable Rod based on the angle of the ropes. Or, rather than stopping the session to do Physics! you could just issue a DM fiat that the ropes hold or break (I would base this on whether or not my players brought snacks).
But my point is it's not super clear cut and either way is fine.
Nope, wouldn't need to do any of that, either, because force isn't a consideration for whether or not the rod stops something, only weight. The description is clear: if you go over the weight limit, the rod deactivates.
I mean... Weight is the force product of the mass of an object and the acceleration of gravity. By your interpretation, if the Rod isn't opposing gravity, it _never_ deactivates. I think you'd be better served by understanding the weight restriction as meaning any sufficient force because otherwise you've inadvertently made the Immovable Rod dramatically more powerful. (And you still can't move the ship)
I'd like to point out that an IR can only hold up to 8000 lbs and the average sailing ship is significantly heavier than that.
Sure, but it's not holding the ship up from falling, it's holding the ship back from moving.
Irrelevant because the description says that the rod stops working if it tries to hold more than 8000 lbs of weight. The direction isn't specified, so whether the ship is pushing down or pushing sideways isn't a factor.
In this case I think the force involved would be the difference of the vector produced by the ship's propulsion minus the vector of air resistance, which doesn't necessarily need to be greater than the weight of the ship. You'd then need to calculate the individual force on each Immovable Rod based on the angle of the ropes. Or, rather than stopping the session to do Physics! you could just issue a DM fiat that the ropes hold or break (I would base this on whether or not my players brought snacks).
But my point is it's not super clear cut and either way is fine.
Nope, wouldn't need to do any of that, either, because force isn't a consideration for whether or not the rod stops something, only weight. The description is clear: if you go over the weight limit, the rod deactivates.
I mean... Weight is the force product of the mass of an object and the acceleration of gravity. By your interpretation, if the Rod isn't opposing gravity, it _never_ deactivates. I think you'd be better served by understanding the weight restriction as meaning any sufficient force because otherwise you've inadvertently made the Immovable Rod dramatically more powerful. (And you still can't move the ship)
Agreed! I am not trying to argue we should all be out here doing kinematic equations at the table. Alls I'm trying to say is there's no clear-cut mechanically correct answer to whether or not the Immovable Rod should stop an airship.
I personally love the immovable rod specifically because it can be used in (almost) all those ways you listed and more. Let the players be creative with it, that’s kinda the point of the game, to come up with creative ways to overcome challenges.
That’s my favorite part of being a DM, seeing what crazy solutions they come up with to the challenges I throw at them. I love letting them find things like the immovable rod, pitcher of endless water, hat of disguise, etc and seeing what they come up with. If they are breezing through things easily because of having some of those, that just means I need to step up my game in the challenges I throw at them!
Agreed. I also regularly throw challenges at the party that I legitimately have absolutely no clue how they’re gonna overcome them, but they pretty much always manage.
The immovable rod. Something I have been avoiding since I’ve started dming. Don’t get me wrong, I love it when my players are creative in solving their problems, but is too much creativity a thing? You know, they might use it to pin a creature to the ground, not take any fall damage, cheese vertical travel, run carnival scams, attach it to a rope and throw it up into the air to grapple off of nothing etc.. Maybe I fret over nothing but it seems pretty cheeseable. Have you ever used the rod in your campaigns? Did you regret it?
When in doubt throw the naked, fingerless, thief that you’ve been keeping in a sack and feeding rotten squirrels to into the fireworks tent hoping that it causes an explosion.
I've not found it to be nearly the issue that the theory-crafting of the internet would have one believe. And if it does start becoming an issue because your players find putting those theories to the test, that's what monsters with abilities like the Conclave Dryad are for.
an old dm of mine made use of the ol' IR. some pirates used them to capture an airship and it was really cool. the IRs were placed on the inside of the railing and ropes were tied to them. the airship could not move because there were IRs at the aft and the pirates could climb up the ropes onto the ship
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
In that situation, the ropes should have snapped before the airship was stopped.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Are you sure? I hear they used - and use - ropes to tether airships. Of course, not all ropes are created equal. Some ropes can hold a battleship, but those are tricky to throw =D
Blanket disclaimer: I only ever state opinion. But I can sound terribly dogmatic - so if you feel I'm trying to tell you what to think, I'm really not, I swear. I'm telling you what I think, that's all.
The ropes used to tie down modern ships are A) enormous, like thicker around than your arm, B) made from modern synthetics that are significantly stronger than traditional rope and C) they use a lot of ropes to tie the airship down at many points. If the passengers and crew of the ship you're trying to take is able to fight back, it's not really much of a strategy.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I have not found it to be broken. It takes a lot of creativity to really use it effectively, and things like the old classic of pinning a creature down to make a fight easier are easily balanced by having them do proper skill checks for pulling off knocking a creature down and getting the rod pressed down in to them enough to actually pin them to the point that they cant move or wiggle out, which when you think about it is a lot harder than you'd think at first glance.
It is also a really fun item that can lead to the party flexing their creativity and out of the box thinking to get creative with solutions. My current party has had one since pretty early on and have used it effectively to come up with some great solutions and options. My favorite is that the fighter had his shield modified so that it has a mount on the back that the rod can fit in to which lets him place his shield in a place and have it stay there. They have used it to effectively trap creatures in corners, block doors/passages to control enemy movement and create improvised cover for situations with none. Its been a lot of fun!
This, plus as an Uncommon magic item I would say the Immovable Rod's magical effect could be estimated to be equivalent to a 2nd level or lower spell. By this logic, I would allow a character to use Dispel Magic to deactivate the Immovable Rod. I'm aware that ruling is contrary to existing errata, but it gives me a nice escape hatch out of some of the more abusive use cases.
Addendum: for what it's worth I think it's good to give your players the tools to outsmart you sometimes. You just want to avoid a situation where they're using the same trick to solve all their problems.
possibly, but there were two IRs at the back of the ship, preventing it from moving forward
Pronouns: Any/All
About Me: Godless monster in human form bent on extending their natural life to unnatural extremes /general of the goose horde /Moderator of Vinstreb School for the Gifted /holder of the evil storyteller badge of no honor /king of madness /The FBI/ The Archmage of I CAST...!
Alignment: Lawful Evil
Fun Fact: i gain more power the more you post on my forum threads. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
I'd like to point out that an IR can only hold up to 8000 lbs and the average sailing ship is significantly heavier than that.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Sure, but it's not holding the ship up from falling, it's holding the ship back from moving. In this case I think the force involved would be the difference of the vector produced by the ship's propulsion minus the vector of air resistance, which doesn't necessarily need to be greater than the weight of the ship. You'd then need to calculate the individual force on each Immovable Rod based on the angle of the ropes. Or, rather than stopping the session to do Physics! you could just issue a DM fiat that the ropes hold or break (I would base this on whether or not my players brought snacks).
But my point is it's not super clear cut and either way is fine.
It's only as powerful as the DM allows it to be:
1) What's the DC on the creature's Acrobatics check to wiggle/slide out from under it? What's the DC on the Arcana check to recognize what it is and simply deactivate it? Hey, cool, free Immovable Rod. Thanks, adventurer!
2) What's the DC on the character's Athletics check to hang onto the rod in midair when they activate it?
3) Well, yeah, that's one of its main uses, as an anchor point for climbing or securing a rope
4) Sounds creative
5) If you just throw the rod up into the air, who's pressing the button to lock it in place?
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
I would say that they would slow down the ship to make boarding easier but not stop it unless there was almost no sail up.
Using one as an anchor for an airship would be pretty good.
If you have two you could climb with them but with only one no way.
Holding people down? Its almost impossible to pin someone down when wrestling. And if you could pin them down and then someone else gets a chance to put the rod onto them while you hold them down why not just kill them while they are held down by your buddy?
I personally love the immovable rod specifically because it can be used in (almost) all those ways you listed and more. Let the players be creative with it, that’s kinda the point of the game, to come up with creative ways to overcome challenges.
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That’s my favorite part of being a DM, seeing what crazy solutions they come up with to the challenges I throw at them. I love letting them find things like the immovable rod, pitcher of endless water, hat of disguise, etc and seeing what they come up with. If they are breezing through things easily because of having some of those, that just means I need to step up my game in the challenges I throw at them!
Irrelevant because the description says that the rod stops working if it tries to hold more than 8000 lbs of weight. The direction isn't specified, so whether the ship is pushing down or pushing sideways isn't a factor.
Nope, wouldn't need to do any of that, either, because force isn't a consideration for whether or not the rod stops something, only weight. The description is clear: if you go over the weight limit, the rod deactivates.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I mean... Weight is the force product of the mass of an object and the acceleration of gravity. By your interpretation, if the Rod isn't opposing gravity, it _never_ deactivates. I think you'd be better served by understanding the weight restriction as meaning any sufficient force because otherwise you've inadvertently made the Immovable Rod dramatically more powerful. (And you still can't move the ship)
Counterpoint: magic.
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Agreed! I am not trying to argue we should all be out here doing kinematic equations at the table. Alls I'm trying to say is there's no clear-cut mechanically correct answer to whether or not the Immovable Rod should stop an airship.
Agreed. I also regularly throw challenges at the party that I legitimately have absolutely no clue how they’re gonna overcome them, but they pretty much always manage.
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