I have a general question about pacing in combat. My players are all level 6 at the moment and it is a group of 5. I know that generally the larger the group the more downtime for the others during turns. Sure, everyone should have enough time during their turn to find the best decision. Currently, in my group, combat starts to feel the most boring part of all. Hearing their feedback, they do like the ideas I present them with different kinds of combat encounters and so on. But, combat is the time of the session where players most of the time start meta talking about things and don´t pay attention to the combat and the player in charge. I do find this very distracting not only for me as the DM but also for the ones that are actually paying attention.
Whenever we figured out the initiatives, I tell the first player to do his turn and tell the other what players are next (mostly the next two players) to give them enough time to prepare their turns. But this seems to not be enough. I was thinking about adding like a timer, if the player takes too long scrolling through his abilities and rereading some stuff. What do you guys think about that? Are there any ideas or ways to make combat feel exciting, even for the players that are waiting for their turns.
How do you handle players that seem to not know their abilities even after playing over a year now?
I have a general question about pacing in combat. My players are all level 6 at the moment and it is a group of 5. I know that generally the larger the group the more downtime for the others during turns. Sure, everyone should have enough time during their turn to find the best decision. Currently, in my group, combat starts to feel the most boring part of all. Hearing their feedback, they do like the ideas I present them with different kinds of combat encounters and so on. But, combat is the time of the session where players most of the time start meta talking about things and don´t pay attention to the combat and the player in charge. I do find this very distracting not only for me as the DM but also for the ones that are actually paying attention.
Whenever we figured out the initiatives, I tell the first player to do his turn and tell the other what players are next (mostly the next two players) to give them enough time to prepare their turns. But this seems to not be enough. I was thinking about adding like a timer, if the player takes too long scrolling through his abilities and rereading some stuff. What do you guys think about that? Are there any ideas or ways to make combat feel exciting, even for the players that are waiting for their turns.
How do you handle players that seem to not know their abilities even after playing over a year now?
Any help is welcomed. Thanks a lot in advance :)
Best to start immediately using a 2 minute shot clock that you adhere to. By forcing the timer, players are ether going to get into the game, or they are going to be forced to take default actions.
Starting new players at higher levels means spending more time in getting them up to speed, longer time for them to understand how the mechanics work in total, and how changes in combat can affect their actions. At first you might want to give them say 5 min a player, but once you and them are more familiar and comfortable with the pace, shortening the timer to a minimum of 2 minutes per player is reasonable enough to keep the pace steady.
If after a year of playing, the group should be familiar enough with each other and have a reasonable understanding of each characters abilities to where they can be almost on the same page when it comes to combat and what they want to accomplish.
I would only do such things if your DM’ing is utterly seamless. In all three of my current groups under different yet terrific DM’s as well as in all my past experience in more than 40 years of gaming, I have found that there can be great swaths of time where we, the players, are waiting for the DM to do something. Maybe looking through their notes, maybe trying to find some information in a book, maybe searching for a particular map, maybe locating and rolling on some random tables, maybe having technical difficulties with Roll20 or other peripherals, maybe something else but you get the idea: dead air until the DM is ready to go. So if, on occasion, the players find themselves twiddling their thumbs while the DM gets their ducks in a row then perhaps it is not too big of an ask for the DM to be patient with their players as well? I would personally find a timer very rude unless the DM NEVER, EVER, EVER made us wait for them. Or had a timer we could turn on them haha.
Consider that your players comprise the majority of the group. Are they satisfied with the pace at the table? Remember that this is a game played for fun. There’s nothing truly on the line so whipping them along outside of their comfort zone may not achieve your desired results.
There are two things I do in my effort to keep combat moving briskly along. I talk fast, and I give each player very limited time to make their decision.
I like to watch the live-play D&D shows like Critical Role and Dimension 20 and such. But an average of 4 hours per episode is a bit much for me. So I wait until each episode is on youtube and then I watch them at +50% speed. So after listening to literally hundreds of hours of combat at that speed, that now feels to me like the normal pace that combat should be moving at. So when I'm at the table and ask my players to role initiative, I click into that pace of speaking. I begin to sound like an auctioneer. Combat is stressful. The fog of war is a very real phenomenon. The adrenalin kicks in and if you can't keep up, you're gonna have a bad time. I've got 6 players, so moving fast helps to keep everyone stressed and focused. But if a player's turn comes and they're still not sure what to do, I'll start hounding them. "What're ya doing? What're ya doing? You got one bad guy closing in, another one getting away, the druid's down again, you got six seconds, what're ya doing?!" If they still can't decide what they want to do, then just tell them they're holding their action and move on to the next player in initiative. After that next player goes, come back to the previous player and tell them they either take their action right now or lose their turn. Combat is stressful. Sometimes even a seasoned veteran will just freeze up for a moment. It happens. It's a perfectly realistic reaction.
Talk to your players. See if they have ideas. If it's dragging for you, it's also dragging for them.
Giving people a heads-up that their turn is coming was a good decision. It's unclear for me whether you're doing it at the start, or whether you're doing it every turn.
Be more active in prompting -- once they've done a thing, ask "anything else?". If they tend to be forgetful of what's going on, remind them of the immediate major details -- "Two orcs have just surrounded Floyd, and there's a goblin all up in your business."
Emphasize in the discussion that it's ok to not come up with the best possible move. Unless you're running hardcore tactical combat with no margin of error, it's not going to matter that much. (And if a fight gets tough, slow it down so they can think.)
Are you using maps, or is it straight imagination? Some people have trouble visualizing the tactical situation without a map. Others get bogged down in fiddly detail if there is a map.
I use a fidget spinner as a turn timer. When you set it spinning on the table, everyone can hear and see how much time they have left. You get one more spin if you have to look something up, like a spell description. I do give myself two, maybe three spins because the DM has so much stuff to manage.
Tell your players it's OK to be thinking about what you're going to do on your turn while someone else is going. I think some players think that's like, a rude thing to do, kind of like waiting to talk rather than listening in conversation, but it's the opposite. To plan your turn, you have to be actively paying attention to what's going on to make sure your plan is keeping up with what's going on and still makes sense, and if you plan between your turns, you're taking less time yourself and combat runs smoother and nobody's leeching the energy out by looking at their spells for the first time at the start of their turn.
I would only do such things if your DM’ing is utterly seamless. In all three of my current groups under different yet terrific DM’s as well as in all my past experience in more than 40 years of gaming, I have found that there can be great swaths of time where we, the players, are waiting for the DM to do something. Maybe looking through their notes, maybe trying to find some information in a book, maybe searching for a particular map, maybe locating and rolling on some random tables, maybe having technical difficulties with Roll20 or other peripherals, maybe something else but you get the idea: dead air until the DM is ready to go. So if, on occasion, the players find themselves twiddling their thumbs while the DM gets their ducks in a row then perhaps it is not too big of an ask for the DM to be patient with their players as well? I would personally find a timer very rude unless the DM NEVER, EVER, EVER made us wait for them. Or had a timer we could turn on them haha.
Consider that your players comprise the majority of the group. Are they satisfied with the pace at the table? Remember that this is a game played for fun. There’s nothing truly on the line so whipping them along outside of their comfort zone may not achieve your desired results.
If I give each player 5 mins to decide, that’s 5 minutes each a DM has to keep up with all that is going on.
For newer players and DM’s , 10 minutes max for a group of 5 is a timing pace that can be improved.
Of course both sides have to keep track of their progress and redundancy in keeping track could be worked on.
Whenever we figured out the initiatives, I tell the first player to do his turn and tell the other what players are next (mostly the next two players) to give them enough time to prepare their turns. But this seems to not be enough. I was thinking about adding like a timer, if the player takes too long scrolling through his abilities and rereading some stuff. What do you guys think about that? Are there any ideas or ways to make combat feel exciting, even for the players that are waiting for their turns.
The thing is, there's only so much pre-planning you can do, especially for casters. What everyone else in the battle does affects what you can do. Maybe you were going to fling out a fireball, but then the barbarian runs up into melee with the group of enemies you were going to blast, that sort of thing
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I would only do such things if your DM’ing is utterly seamless. In all three of my current groups under different yet terrific DM’s as well as in all my past experience in more than 40 years of gaming, I have found that there can be great swaths of time where we, the players, are waiting for the DM to do something. Maybe looking through their notes, maybe trying to find some information in a book, maybe searching for a particular map, maybe locating and rolling on some random tables, maybe having technical difficulties with Roll20 or other peripherals, maybe something else but you get the idea: dead air until the DM is ready to go. So if, on occasion, the players find themselves twiddling their thumbs while the DM gets their ducks in a row then perhaps it is not too big of an ask for the DM to be patient with their players as well? I would personally find a timer very rude unless the DM NEVER, EVER, EVER made us wait for them. Or had a timer we could turn on them haha.
Consider that your players comprise the majority of the group. Are they satisfied with the pace at the table? Remember that this is a game played for fun. There’s nothing truly on the line so whipping them along outside of their comfort zone may not achieve your desired results.
If I give each player 5 mins to decide, that’s 5 minutes each a DM has to keep up with all that is going on.
For newer players and DM’s , 10 minutes max for a group of 5 is a timing pace that can be improved.
Of course both sides have to keep track of their progress and redundancy in keeping track could be worked on.
Is there some sort of competitive speed-gaming league for D&D that I am unaware of? What purpose does a timer serve other than create unnecessary pressure in what is supposed to be a hobby played with friends for fun? The game is collaborative not antagonistic. We are not playing basketball or chess. There is no winning or losing. There is nothing that must be achieved in a finite period of time. Anything that doesn’t get accomplished this session can be done in the next or the next or the one after that. Some things take more time than others. Some things are more complicated than others. The only thing that truly matters is that people enjoy themselves. To whit, OP has opted not to respond whether the players are happy with the pace of the game. Based on the initial reported feedback, their players don’t seem to have any issue, it’s OP who thinks things are boring and becomes distracted.
Without more information to the contrary, my counsel remains for OP to work on their own patience rather than trying to solve a problem only they have in a group where they are outnumbered. It’s not a matter of the amount of time on the timer, it’s a matter of disparate expectations. In any case where you are the odd man out, you find a group that suits you more closely or you supplant your own preferences in deference to the majority because the solution to one’s problems are seldom found in attempts to change others; better to surround yourself with like-minded people. Not to say OP is a bad person or wrong, just they may not be playing with the most suitable group. It appears they need to decide whether they can settle with this one or not.
Sometimes organising or communicating can be issue people have.
Options of what they can do are basically on there character sheet already. would slips of paper help? They can simply arrange the abilities in order to set there turn while others are playing theirs. Announcing your turn actions out of order can not have the same effect. (DMs have burned me with that) players may be being careful rather than indecisive. Knowing everything you need to do isn’t the same as being able to correctly list them in order for the function to be utilised. Not mentioning an ability or feat assuming it’s done again like normal can result in arguments. DMs can even get annoyed for not knowing your character’s abilities.
a second point is how often do you use all your abilities? Players regularly don’t actually know their characters full potential. A DM creating scenarios to make players use abilities to haven’t used yet should be applauded. Let them know about there character if they clearly don’t know what the character would do and can do. Frequent poor decisions are made that the character themselves probably would have dealt with differently but the player didn’t know they could do something. (Two round later, “I could have caught that! My monk has arrow catching.”)
I also ask them if they are done with their turn or forgot something.
I think it could be an issue, that some of them are trying to find "the only one correct turn", which is never important in our fight. The fights always happen on a battleboard they are sitting around.
I would only do such things if your DM’ing is utterly seamless. In all three of my current groups under different yet terrific DM’s as well as in all my past experience in more than 40 years of gaming, I have found that there can be great swaths of time where we, the players, are waiting for the DM to do something. Maybe looking through their notes, maybe trying to find some information in a book, maybe searching for a particular map, maybe locating and rolling on some random tables, maybe having technical difficulties with Roll20 or other peripherals, maybe something else but you get the idea: dead air until the DM is ready to go. So if, on occasion, the players find themselves twiddling their thumbs while the DM gets their ducks in a row then perhaps it is not too big of an ask for the DM to be patient with their players as well? I would personally find a timer very rude unless the DM NEVER, EVER, EVER made us wait for them. Or had a timer we could turn on them haha.
Consider that your players comprise the majority of the group. Are they satisfied with the pace at the table? Remember that this is a game played for fun. There’s nothing truly on the line so whipping them along outside of their comfort zone may not achieve your desired results.
If I give each player 5 mins to decide, that’s 5 minutes each a DM has to keep up with all that is going on.
For newer players and DM’s , 10 minutes max for a group of 5 is a timing pace that can be improved.
Of course both sides have to keep track of their progress and redundancy in keeping track could be worked on.
Is there some sort of competitive speed-gaming league for D&D that I am unaware of? What purpose does a timer serve other than create unnecessary pressure in what is supposed to be a hobby played with friends for fun? The game is collaborative not antagonistic. We are not playing basketball or chess. There is no winning or losing. There is nothing that must be achieved in a finite period of time. Anything that doesn’t get accomplished this session can be done in the next or the next or the one after that. Some things take more time than others. Some things are more complicated than others. The only thing that truly matters is that people enjoy themselves. To whit, OP has opted not to respond whether the players are happy with the pace of the game. Based on the initial reported feedback, their players don’t seem to have any issue, it’s OP who thinks things are boring and becomes distracted.
Without more information to the contrary, my counsel remains for OP to work on their own patience rather than trying to solve a problem only they have in a group where they are outnumbered. It’s not a matter of the amount of time on the timer, it’s a matter of disparate expectations. In any case where you are the odd man out, you find a group that suits you more closely or you supplant your own preferences in deference to the majority because the solution to one’s problems are seldom found in attempts to change others; better to surround yourself with like-minded people. Not to say OP is a bad person or wrong, just they may not be playing with the most suitable group. It appears they need to decide whether they can settle with this one or not.
And because the Original Poster asked for suggestions on how to improve or increase the pace of combat play, one method is to place the group in a position where they have to quickly decide on what course of action they want to take.
If a player is taking longer than 10 minutes to decide on a course of action, and that player has been playing the same character for a long period, then placing a 10 minute timer is a reasonable option for any DM to place on each player to keep combat play moving and still allow for “fun of play” to be had.
When a combat that a DM plans takes longer to complete because only one or two players are not focused on the game and others are sitting there waiting a long time for something to happen, and given how a player in this day and age has a shorter and shorter attention span, putting the players in a bit of a crunch can result in “fun for everyone” by forcing unexpected results to have to be made and the attention of what is happening to remain focused on the task at hand.
It’s not a competition, but at some point, even the DM has to set a standard that some might find unpalatable in order to insure that all involved are having fun. Just as players can force the best laid plans of a DM into chaos, so too must a DM force the players plans into chaos by not giving them time to consider and debate every little detail.
The OP stated in the comment the group was level 6 and had been playing for a year, the players have no problem with the combat situations they are placed in, but the length of combat has grown to a point where the entire sessions has become nothing more than just possibly combat. A major event like battling a major BBEG is understandable, but when a group takes possibly 4 hours to complete a combat experience that should have only taken at most 1 and a half hours, then something has to change to bring that time back to a reasonable amount that all can agree on.
As stated before, try a 10 minute per player decision clock, see how it goes, and adjust accordingly from there depending on how afterward a group discussion about how the time given was received by all. If the players are completely fine with that amount of time, then the pace of combat may quicken, if the players think 10 minutes is more than enough, then a DM can discuss with the players about possibly reducing the clock to a more comfortable and fun amount of time.
Fun for only one isn’t always fun for all. Can’t please everyone all the time, but you can please everyone in short bursts that everyone agrees is a reasonable amount of time.
I would only do such things if your DM’ing is utterly seamless. In all three of my current groups under different yet terrific DM’s as well as in all my past experience in more than 40 years of gaming, I have found that there can be great swaths of time where we, the players, are waiting for the DM to do something. Maybe looking through their notes, maybe trying to find some information in a book, maybe searching for a particular map, maybe locating and rolling on some random tables, maybe having technical difficulties with Roll20 or other peripherals, maybe something else but you get the idea: dead air until the DM is ready to go. So if, on occasion, the players find themselves twiddling their thumbs while the DM gets their ducks in a row then perhaps it is not too big of an ask for the DM to be patient with their players as well? I would personally find a timer very rude unless the DM NEVER, EVER, EVER made us wait for them. Or had a timer we could turn on them haha.
Consider that your players comprise the majority of the group. Are they satisfied with the pace at the table? Remember that this is a game played for fun. There’s nothing truly on the line so whipping them along outside of their comfort zone may not achieve your desired results.
If I give each player 5 mins to decide, that’s 5 minutes each a DM has to keep up with all that is going on.
For newer players and DM’s , 10 minutes max for a group of 5 is a timing pace that can be improved.
Of course both sides have to keep track of their progress and redundancy in keeping track could be worked on.
Is there some sort of competitive speed-gaming league for D&D that I am unaware of? What purpose does a timer serve other than create unnecessary pressure in what is supposed to be a hobby played with friends for fun? The game is collaborative not antagonistic. We are not playing basketball or chess. There is no winning or losing. There is nothing that must be achieved in a finite period of time. Anything that doesn’t get accomplished this session can be done in the next or the next or the one after that. Some things take more time than others. Some things are more complicated than others. The only thing that truly matters is that people enjoy themselves. To whit, OP has opted not to respond whether the players are happy with the pace of the game. Based on the initial reported feedback, their players don’t seem to have any issue, it’s OP who thinks things are boring and becomes distracted.
Without more information to the contrary, my counsel remains for OP to work on their own patience rather than trying to solve a problem only they have in a group where they are outnumbered. It’s not a matter of the amount of time on the timer, it’s a matter of disparate expectations. In any case where you are the odd man out, you find a group that suits you more closely or you supplant your own preferences in deference to the majority because the solution to one’s problems are seldom found in attempts to change others; better to surround yourself with like-minded people. Not to say OP is a bad person or wrong, just they may not be playing with the most suitable group. It appears they need to decide whether they can settle with this one or not.
And because the Original Poster asked for suggestions on how to improve or increase the pace of combat play, one method is to place the group in a position where they have to quickly decide on what course of action they want to take.
If a player is taking longer than 10 minutes to decide on a course of action, and that player has been playing the same character for a long period, then placing a 10 minute timer is a reasonable option for any DM to place on each player to keep combat play moving and still allow for “fun of play” to be had.
When a combat that a DM plans takes longer to complete because only one or two players are not focused on the game and others are sitting there waiting a long time for something to happen, and given how a player in this day and age has a shorter and shorter attention span, putting the players in a bit of a crunch can result in “fun for everyone” by forcing unexpected results to have to be made and the attention of what is happening to remain focused on the task at hand.
It’s not a competition, but at some point, even the DM has to set a standard that some might find unpalatable in order to insure that all involved are having fun. Just as players can force the best laid plans of a DM into chaos, so too must a DM force the players plans into chaos by not giving them time to consider and debate every little detail.
The OP stated in the comment the group was level 6 and had been playing for a year, the players have no problem with the combat situations they are placed in, but the length of combat has grown to a point where the entire sessions has become nothing more than just possibly combat. A major event like battling a major BBEG is understandable, but when a group takes possibly 4 hours to complete a combat experience that should have only taken at most 1 and a half hours, then something has to change to bring that time back to a reasonable amount that all can agree on.
As stated before, try a 10 minute per player decision clock, see how it goes, and adjust accordingly from there depending on how afterward a group discussion about how the time given was received by all. If the players are completely fine with that amount of time, then the pace of combat may quicken, if the players think 10 minutes is more than enough, then a DM can discuss with the players about possibly reducing the clock to a more comfortable and fun amount of time.
Fun for only one isn’t always fun for all. Can’t please everyone all the time, but you can please everyone in short bursts that everyone agrees is a reasonable amount of time.
Pardon me? You are the only one who has specified any period of time. OP made no mention of 10 minute long turns nor the length of the sessions. There is no indication from them that entire sessions are taken up by single combat encounters and they have declined to clarify whether the players are concerned with the amount of time their fellows take to play their turns. You are making an awful lot of assumptions from OP’s vague statements about “players taking very long for their turns” and “not know(ing) their abilities even after a year of playing.” For all we know, 10 minutes is twice as long as they’re taking now.
In my experience, most groups are pretty self regulating. Generally, if someone is routinely taking too long to play, the entire table will groan when that person’s turn comes up and the entire group will hustle them along. If that is not happening, it’s not a group-wide problem and there is no need for drastic measures to accommodate one individual’s sense of urgency. Your last line makes no sense. The DM appears to be the only one who is dissatisfied. How do you square introducing a timer for their sake alone if fun for one isn’t always fun for all??
It sounds like one of the issues here is engagement - a more and more common issue in this day and age.
I have found that engaging them in descriptions helps to bring them into the game. Rather than saying "ok, you attack, you have hit, you do the damage..." to the active player, you can say "Player 1, You attack, hit, roll damage. Player 2, you see them strink the ghoul in the side of the head, doing descriptive damage and so forth...".
Engaging other players in the descriptions is a great way to do it. If they have specific tics, that can be wound in - "Rogue, as Barbarian strikes them, you think you see a glint of gold under their collar". Throw them some loot at the end and they'll be hanging on the combat to find more.
Some players suffer from decision paralysis. I've found that working out a decision tree with them can help with this. For instance, for a druid the first question was "does someone need healing?" If yes, they go one way, if no they go another. Other questions like "is something in your face?" or "are enemies grouped up?" filter down options even more.
For some types of people this can really help them make decisions quickly and feel good about them. It can also help remind the player of certain options or features they may otherwise have forgotten about. Of course they are reminded that this is not all they can do, it's just meant to be a guide when they don't have a clear picture of what to do.
I have a general question about pacing in combat. My players are all level 6 at the moment and it is a group of 5. I know that generally the larger the group the more downtime for the others during turns. Sure, everyone should have enough time during their turn to find the best decision. Currently, in my group, combat starts to feel the most boring part of all. Hearing their feedback, they do like the ideas I present them with different kinds of combat encounters and so on. But, combat is the time of the session where players most of the time start meta talking about things and don´t pay attention to the combat and the player in charge. I do find this very distracting not only for me as the DM but also for the ones that are actually paying attention.
Whenever we figured out the initiatives, I tell the first player to do his turn and tell the other what players are next (mostly the next two players) to give them enough time to prepare their turns. But this seems to not be enough. I was thinking about adding like a timer, if the player takes too long scrolling through his abilities and rereading some stuff. What do you guys think about that? Are there any ideas or ways to make combat feel exciting, even for the players that are waiting for their turns.
How do you handle players that seem to not know their abilities even after playing over a year now?
I would only do such things if your DM’ing is utterly seamless. In all three of my current groups under different yet terrific DM’s as well as in all my past experience in more than 40 years of gaming, I have found that there can be great swaths of time where we, the players, are waiting for the DM to do something. Maybe looking through their notes, maybe trying to find some information in a book, maybe searching for a particular map, maybe locating and rolling on some random tables, maybe having technical difficulties with Roll20 or other peripherals, maybe something else but you get the idea: dead air until the DM is ready to go. So if, on occasion, the players find themselves twiddling their thumbs while the DM gets their ducks in a row then perhaps it is not too big of an ask for the DM to be patient with their players as well? I would personally find a timer very rude unless the DM NEVER, EVER, EVER made us wait for them. Or had a timer we could turn on them haha.
Consider that your players comprise the majority of the group. Are they satisfied with the pace at the table? Remember that this is a game played for fun. There’s nothing truly on the line so whipping them along outside of their comfort zone may not achieve your desired results.
If I give each player 5 mins to decide, that’s 5 minutes each a DM has to keep up with all that is going on.
For newer players and DM’s , 10 minutes max for a group of 5 is a timing pace that can be improved.
Of course both sides have to keep track of their progress and redundancy in keeping track could be worked on.
Is there some sort of competitive speed-gaming league for D&D that I am unaware of? What purpose does a timer serve other than create unnecessary pressure in what is supposed to be a hobby played with friends for fun? The game is collaborative not antagonistic. We are not playing basketball or chess. There is no winning or losing. There is nothing that must be achieved in a finite period of time. Anything that doesn’t get accomplished this session can be done in the next or the next or the one after that. Some things take more time than others. Some things are more complicated than others. The only thing that truly matters is that people enjoy themselves. To whit, OP has opted not to respond whether the players are happy with the pace of the game. Based on the initial reported feedback, their players don’t seem to have any issue, it’s OP who thinks things are boring and becomes distracted.
Without more information to the contrary, my counsel remains for OP to work on their own patience rather than trying to solve a problem only they have in a group where they are outnumbered. It’s not a matter of the amount of time on the timer, it’s a matter of disparate expectations. In any case where you are the odd man out, you find a group that suits you more closely or you supplant your own preferences in deference to the majority because the solution to one’s problems are seldom found in attempts to change others; better to surround yourself with like-minded people. Not to say OP is a bad person or wrong, just they may not be playing with the most suitable group. It appears they need to decide whether they can settle with this one or not.
And because the Original Poster asked for suggestions on how to improve or increase the pace of combat play, one method is to place the group in a position where they have to quickly decide on what course of action they want to take.
If a player is taking longer than 10 minutes to decide on a course of action, and that player has been playing the same character for a long period, then placing a 10 minute timer is a reasonable option for any DM to place on each player to keep combat play moving and still allow for “fun of play” to be had.
When a combat that a DM plans takes longer to complete because only one or two players are not focused on the game and others are sitting there waiting a long time for something to happen, and given how a player in this day and age has a shorter and shorter attention span, putting the players in a bit of a crunch can result in “fun for everyone” by forcing unexpected results to have to be made and the attention of what is happening to remain focused on the task at hand.
It’s not a competition, but at some point, even the DM has to set a standard that some might find unpalatable in order to insure that all involved are having fun. Just as players can force the best laid plans of a DM into chaos, so too must a DM force the players plans into chaos by not giving them time to consider and debate every little detail.
The OP stated in the comment the group was level 6 and had been playing for a year, the players have no problem with the combat situations they are placed in, but the length of combat has grown to a point where the entire sessions has become nothing more than just possibly combat. A major event like battling a major BBEG is understandable, but when a group takes possibly 4 hours to complete a combat experience that should have only taken at most 1 and a half hours, then something has to change to bring that time back to a reasonable amount that all can agree on.
As stated before, try a 10 minute per player decision clock, see how it goes, and adjust accordingly from there depending on how afterward a group discussion about how the time given was received by all. If the players are completely fine with that amount of time, then the pace of combat may quicken, if the players think 10 minutes is more than enough, then a DM can discuss with the players about possibly reducing the clock to a more comfortable and fun amount of time.
Fun for only one isn’t always fun for all. Can’t please everyone all the time, but you can please everyone in short bursts that everyone agrees is a reasonable amount of time.
Pardon me? You are the only one who has specified any period of time. OP made no mention of 10 minute long turns nor the length of the sessions. There is no indication from them that entire sessions are taken up by single combat encounters and they have declined to clarify whether the players are concerned with the amount of time their fellows take to play their turns. You are making an awful lot of assumptions from OP’s vague statements about “players taking very long for their turns” and “not know(ing) their abilities even after a year of playing.” For all we know, 10 minutes is twice as long as they’re taking now.
In my experience, most groups are pretty self regulating. Generally, if someone is routinely taking too long to play, the entire table will groan when that person’s turn comes up and the entire group will hustle them along. If that is not happening, it’s not a group-wide problem and there is no need for drastic measures to accommodate one individual’s sense of urgency. Your last line makes no sense. The DM appears to be the only one who is dissatisfied. How do you square introducing a timer for their sake alone if fun for one isn’t always fun for all??
I’ve given the OP an option, which they can or can not utilize. While I understand the sentiment that imposing restrictions on players is a dampness of “fun”, at some point a player will be given an inch( or minute) and ends up taking a mile( or an extended amount of time beyond a socially acceptable amount given the situation.)
Not everyone has the time to wait for one to decide what to do, and so fun begins to wane, and while waiting instead of never knowing when the player will decide, if everyone realizes they will only get a fixed amount of time to make up their mind, then running the clock will only help the other players stay focused on the moment, and allow the still undecided player the ability to take their turn but at a later point in the combat. But you can’t let that habit slip, so unfortunately something has to change and requires a bit of work and effort to maintain. Players can be given 10 minutes to monologue and roleplay and whatnot, but combat requires a bit of work to make it “fun”.
So please pardon me if this difference of opinion may ruffle some feathers, but IMHO offered a slice of advice, i’m only offering the poster a version of what might be available.
I would only do such things if your DM’ing is utterly seamless. In all three of my current groups under different yet terrific DM’s as well as in all my past experience in more than 40 years of gaming, I have found that there can be great swaths of time where we, the players, are waiting for the DM to do something. Maybe looking through their notes, maybe trying to find some information in a book, maybe searching for a particular map, maybe locating and rolling on some random tables, maybe having technical difficulties with Roll20 or other peripherals, maybe something else but you get the idea: dead air until the DM is ready to go. So if, on occasion, the players find themselves twiddling their thumbs while the DM gets their ducks in a row then perhaps it is not too big of an ask for the DM to be patient with their players as well? I would personally find a timer very rude unless the DM NEVER, EVER, EVER made us wait for them. Or had a timer we could turn on them haha.
Consider that your players comprise the majority of the group. Are they satisfied with the pace at the table? Remember that this is a game played for fun. There’s nothing truly on the line so whipping them along outside of their comfort zone may not achieve your desired results.
If I give each player 5 mins to decide, that’s 5 minutes each a DM has to keep up with all that is going on.
For newer players and DM’s , 10 minutes max for a group of 5 is a timing pace that can be improved.
Of course both sides have to keep track of their progress and redundancy in keeping track could be worked on.
Is there some sort of competitive speed-gaming league for D&D that I am unaware of? What purpose does a timer serve other than create unnecessary pressure in what is supposed to be a hobby played with friends for fun?
It's because some people will spend ten minutes dithering when it's their turn unless given incentive to actually act more swiftly. I've seen instances where a single person could double the length of time a single encounter took in the real world because of this, and given that generally the people at the table have a limited amount of free time that they can devote to playing a game it's really not fair to everyone else who showed up.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think it might be a good idea to ask them what it is they want to do. Having a discussion mid-combat can prompt the other players to give thought to what their action might be as well.
If the action is I want to use XX spell without hitting anybody else, then work it out with them. It's not contest, help your players do what they think will be a winning situation. Give them options too, even if it means you are setting up your bad guys for a fail.
If they really can't decide, let them know they can take a "Wait Action" which means their initiative drops to 0 giving them time to think. I use both Wait and Ready. They both have their uses.
In the end, the more players you have the longer combat will take. That's just how it goes.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Use some sort of highly identifiable turn tracker. I use blank playing cards folded in half with names on them.
I move the card of whoever is up and the party can see who is next and when the monsters are most likely to go. It also prompts players to be ready because they can see their turn is coming up.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
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Hey,
I have a general question about pacing in combat. My players are all level 6 at the moment and it is a group of 5. I know that generally the larger the group the more downtime for the others during turns. Sure, everyone should have enough time during their turn to find the best decision. Currently, in my group, combat starts to feel the most boring part of all. Hearing their feedback, they do like the ideas I present them with different kinds of combat encounters and so on. But, combat is the time of the session where players most of the time start meta talking about things and don´t pay attention to the combat and the player in charge. I do find this very distracting not only for me as the DM but also for the ones that are actually paying attention.
Whenever we figured out the initiatives, I tell the first player to do his turn and tell the other what players are next (mostly the next two players) to give them enough time to prepare their turns. But this seems to not be enough. I was thinking about adding like a timer, if the player takes too long scrolling through his abilities and rereading some stuff. What do you guys think about that? Are there any ideas or ways to make combat feel exciting, even for the players that are waiting for their turns.
How do you handle players that seem to not know their abilities even after playing over a year now?
Any help is welcomed. Thanks a lot in advance :)
Best to start immediately using a 2 minute shot clock that you adhere to. By forcing the timer, players are ether going to get into the game, or they are going to be forced to take default actions.
Starting new players at higher levels means spending more time in getting them up to speed, longer time for them to understand how the mechanics work in total, and how changes in combat can affect their actions.
At first you might want to give them say 5 min a player, but once you and them are more familiar and comfortable with the pace, shortening the timer to a minimum of 2 minutes per player is reasonable enough to keep the pace steady.
If after a year of playing, the group should be familiar enough with each other and have a reasonable understanding of each characters abilities to where they can be almost on the same page when it comes to combat and what they want to accomplish.
I would only do such things if your DM’ing is utterly seamless. In all three of my current groups under different yet terrific DM’s as well as in all my past experience in more than 40 years of gaming, I have found that there can be great swaths of time where we, the players, are waiting for the DM to do something. Maybe looking through their notes, maybe trying to find some information in a book, maybe searching for a particular map, maybe locating and rolling on some random tables, maybe having technical difficulties with Roll20 or other peripherals, maybe something else but you get the idea: dead air until the DM is ready to go. So if, on occasion, the players find themselves twiddling their thumbs while the DM gets their ducks in a row then perhaps it is not too big of an ask for the DM to be patient with their players as well? I would personally find a timer very rude unless the DM NEVER, EVER, EVER made us wait for them. Or had a timer we could turn on them haha.
Consider that your players comprise the majority of the group. Are they satisfied with the pace at the table? Remember that this is a game played for fun. There’s nothing truly on the line so whipping them along outside of their comfort zone may not achieve your desired results.
There are two things I do in my effort to keep combat moving briskly along. I talk fast, and I give each player very limited time to make their decision.
I like to watch the live-play D&D shows like Critical Role and Dimension 20 and such. But an average of 4 hours per episode is a bit much for me. So I wait until each episode is on youtube and then I watch them at +50% speed. So after listening to literally hundreds of hours of combat at that speed, that now feels to me like the normal pace that combat should be moving at. So when I'm at the table and ask my players to role initiative, I click into that pace of speaking. I begin to sound like an auctioneer. Combat is stressful. The fog of war is a very real phenomenon. The adrenalin kicks in and if you can't keep up, you're gonna have a bad time. I've got 6 players, so moving fast helps to keep everyone stressed and focused. But if a player's turn comes and they're still not sure what to do, I'll start hounding them. "What're ya doing? What're ya doing? You got one bad guy closing in, another one getting away, the druid's down again, you got six seconds, what're ya doing?!" If they still can't decide what they want to do, then just tell them they're holding their action and move on to the next player in initiative. After that next player goes, come back to the previous player and tell them they either take their action right now or lose their turn. Combat is stressful. Sometimes even a seasoned veteran will just freeze up for a moment. It happens. It's a perfectly realistic reaction.
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Talk to your players. See if they have ideas. If it's dragging for you, it's also dragging for them.
Giving people a heads-up that their turn is coming was a good decision. It's unclear for me whether you're doing it at the start, or whether you're doing it every turn.
Be more active in prompting -- once they've done a thing, ask "anything else?". If they tend to be forgetful of what's going on, remind them of the immediate major details -- "Two orcs have just surrounded Floyd, and there's a goblin all up in your business."
Emphasize in the discussion that it's ok to not come up with the best possible move. Unless you're running hardcore tactical combat with no margin of error, it's not going to matter that much. (And if a fight gets tough, slow it down so they can think.)
Are you using maps, or is it straight imagination? Some people have trouble visualizing the tactical situation without a map. Others get bogged down in fiddly detail if there is a map.
I use a fidget spinner as a turn timer. When you set it spinning on the table, everyone can hear and see how much time they have left. You get one more spin if you have to look something up, like a spell description. I do give myself two, maybe three spins because the DM has so much stuff to manage.
Tell your players it's OK to be thinking about what you're going to do on your turn while someone else is going. I think some players think that's like, a rude thing to do, kind of like waiting to talk rather than listening in conversation, but it's the opposite. To plan your turn, you have to be actively paying attention to what's going on to make sure your plan is keeping up with what's going on and still makes sense, and if you plan between your turns, you're taking less time yourself and combat runs smoother and nobody's leeching the energy out by looking at their spells for the first time at the start of their turn.
If I give each player 5 mins to decide, that’s 5 minutes each a DM has to keep up with all that is going on.
For newer players and DM’s , 10 minutes max for a group of 5 is a timing pace that can be improved.
Of course both sides have to keep track of their progress and redundancy in keeping track could be worked on.
The thing is, there's only so much pre-planning you can do, especially for casters. What everyone else in the battle does affects what you can do. Maybe you were going to fling out a fireball, but then the barbarian runs up into melee with the group of enemies you were going to blast, that sort of thing
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Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
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Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Is there some sort of competitive speed-gaming league for D&D that I am unaware of? What purpose does a timer serve other than create unnecessary pressure in what is supposed to be a hobby played with friends for fun? The game is collaborative not antagonistic. We are not playing basketball or chess. There is no winning or losing. There is nothing that must be achieved in a finite period of time. Anything that doesn’t get accomplished this session can be done in the next or the next or the one after that. Some things take more time than others. Some things are more complicated than others. The only thing that truly matters is that people enjoy themselves. To whit, OP has opted not to respond whether the players are happy with the pace of the game. Based on the initial reported feedback, their players don’t seem to have any issue, it’s OP who thinks things are boring and becomes distracted.
Without more information to the contrary, my counsel remains for OP to work on their own patience rather than trying to solve a problem only they have in a group where they are outnumbered. It’s not a matter of the amount of time on the timer, it’s a matter of disparate expectations. In any case where you are the odd man out, you find a group that suits you more closely or you supplant your own preferences in deference to the majority because the solution to one’s problems are seldom found in attempts to change others; better to surround yourself with like-minded people. Not to say OP is a bad person or wrong, just they may not be playing with the most suitable group. It appears they need to decide whether they can settle with this one or not.
Sometimes organising or communicating can be issue people have.
Options of what they can do are basically on there character sheet already. would slips of paper help? They can simply arrange the abilities in order to set there turn while others are playing theirs. Announcing your turn actions out of order can not have the same effect. (DMs have burned me with that) players may be being careful rather than indecisive. Knowing everything you need to do isn’t the same as being able to correctly list them in order for the function to be utilised. Not mentioning an ability or feat assuming it’s done again like normal can result in arguments. DMs can even get annoyed for not knowing your character’s abilities.
a second point is how often do you use all your abilities? Players regularly don’t actually know their characters full potential. A DM creating scenarios to make players use abilities to haven’t used yet should be applauded. Let them know about there character if they clearly don’t know what the character would do and can do. Frequent poor decisions are made that the character themselves probably would have dealt with differently but the player didn’t know they could do something. (Two round later, “I could have caught that! My monk has arrow catching.”)
I give them the heads-up every turn.
I also ask them if they are done with their turn or forgot something.
I think it could be an issue, that some of them are trying to find "the only one correct turn", which is never important in our fight. The fights always happen on a battleboard they are sitting around.
And because the Original Poster asked for suggestions on how to improve or increase the pace of combat play, one method is to place the group in a position where they have to quickly decide on what course of action they want to take.
If a player is taking longer than 10 minutes to decide on a course of action, and that player has been playing the same character for a long period, then placing a 10 minute timer is a reasonable option for any DM to place on each player to keep combat play moving and still allow for “fun of play” to be had.
When a combat that a DM plans takes longer to complete because only one or two players are not focused on the game and others are sitting there waiting a long time for something to happen, and given how a player in this day and age has a shorter and shorter attention span, putting the players in a bit of a crunch can result in “fun for everyone” by forcing unexpected results to have to be made and the attention of what is happening to remain focused on the task at hand.
It’s not a competition, but at some point, even the DM has to set a standard that some might find unpalatable in order to insure that all involved are having fun. Just as players can force the best laid plans of a DM into chaos, so too must a DM force the players plans into chaos by not giving them time to consider and debate every little detail.
The OP stated in the comment the group was level 6 and had been playing for a year, the players have no problem with the combat situations they are placed in, but the length of combat has grown to a point where the entire sessions has become nothing more than just possibly combat. A major event like battling a major BBEG is understandable, but when a group takes possibly 4 hours to complete a combat experience that should have only taken at most 1 and a half hours, then something has to change to bring that time back to a reasonable amount that all can agree on.
As stated before, try a 10 minute per player decision clock, see how it goes, and adjust accordingly from there depending on how afterward a group discussion about how the time given was received by all. If the players are completely fine with that amount of time, then the pace of combat may quicken, if the players think 10 minutes is more than enough, then a DM can discuss with the players about possibly reducing the clock to a more comfortable and fun amount of time.
Fun for only one isn’t always fun for all. Can’t please everyone all the time, but you can please everyone in short bursts that everyone agrees is a reasonable amount of time.
Pardon me? You are the only one who has specified any period of time. OP made no mention of 10 minute long turns nor the length of the sessions. There is no indication from them that entire sessions are taken up by single combat encounters and they have declined to clarify whether the players are concerned with the amount of time their fellows take to play their turns. You are making an awful lot of assumptions from OP’s vague statements about “players taking very long for their turns” and “not know(ing) their abilities even after a year of playing.” For all we know, 10 minutes is twice as long as they’re taking now.
In my experience, most groups are pretty self regulating. Generally, if someone is routinely taking too long to play, the entire table will groan when that person’s turn comes up and the entire group will hustle them along. If that is not happening, it’s not a group-wide problem and there is no need for drastic measures to accommodate one individual’s sense of urgency. Your last line makes no sense. The DM appears to be the only one who is dissatisfied. How do you square introducing a timer for their sake alone if fun for one isn’t always fun for all??
It sounds like one of the issues here is engagement - a more and more common issue in this day and age.
I have found that engaging them in descriptions helps to bring them into the game. Rather than saying "ok, you attack, you have hit, you do the damage..." to the active player, you can say "Player 1, You attack, hit, roll damage. Player 2, you see them strink the ghoul in the side of the head, doing descriptive damage and so forth...".
Engaging other players in the descriptions is a great way to do it. If they have specific tics, that can be wound in - "Rogue, as Barbarian strikes them, you think you see a glint of gold under their collar". Throw them some loot at the end and they'll be hanging on the combat to find more.
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Some players suffer from decision paralysis. I've found that working out a decision tree with them can help with this. For instance, for a druid the first question was "does someone need healing?" If yes, they go one way, if no they go another. Other questions like "is something in your face?" or "are enemies grouped up?" filter down options even more.
For some types of people this can really help them make decisions quickly and feel good about them. It can also help remind the player of certain options or features they may otherwise have forgotten about. Of course they are reminded that this is not all they can do, it's just meant to be a guide when they don't have a clear picture of what to do.
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This is the Original Post of the topic.
I’ve given the OP an option, which they can or can not utilize.
While I understand the sentiment that imposing restrictions on players is a dampness of “fun”, at some point a player will be given an inch( or minute) and ends up taking a mile( or an extended amount of time beyond a socially acceptable amount given the situation.)
Not everyone has the time to wait for one to decide what to do, and so fun begins to wane, and while waiting instead of never knowing when the player will decide, if everyone realizes they will only get a fixed amount of time to make up their mind, then running the clock will only help the other players stay focused on the moment, and allow the still undecided player the ability to take their turn but at a later point in the combat.
But you can’t let that habit slip, so unfortunately something has to change and requires a bit of work and effort to maintain. Players can be given 10 minutes to monologue and roleplay and whatnot, but combat requires a bit of work to make it “fun”.
So please pardon me if this difference of opinion may ruffle some feathers, but IMHO offered a slice of advice, i’m only offering the poster a version of what might be available.
It's because some people will spend ten minutes dithering when it's their turn unless given incentive to actually act more swiftly. I've seen instances where a single person could double the length of time a single encounter took in the real world because of this, and given that generally the people at the table have a limited amount of free time that they can devote to playing a game it's really not fair to everyone else who showed up.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
I think it might be a good idea to ask them what it is they want to do. Having a discussion mid-combat can prompt the other players to give thought to what their action might be as well.
If the action is I want to use XX spell without hitting anybody else, then work it out with them. It's not contest, help your players do what they think will be a winning situation. Give them options too, even if it means you are setting up your bad guys for a fail.
If they really can't decide, let them know they can take a "Wait Action" which means their initiative drops to 0 giving them time to think. I use both Wait and Ready. They both have their uses.
In the end, the more players you have the longer combat will take. That's just how it goes.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Use some sort of highly identifiable turn tracker. I use blank playing cards folded in half with names on them.
I move the card of whoever is up and the party can see who is next and when the monsters are most likely to go. It also prompts players to be ready because they can see their turn is coming up.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale