Hi, I’m looking for tips or help on how to deal with my party, they are the definition of murder hobos, they go around killing whoever they want and stealing whatever they can. I had introduced characters in the past, who they just decided for no reason to kill. I tried to ask them why, but they said they just felt like it. They also aren’t willing to put any effort into the game. I had to spend weeks before they agreed to make their characters, and when I brought up that they didn’t write any backstorys, they said that they would do it later, but after weeks they still hadn’t done it. It got to the point when they just made me write their backstorys for them, because they aren’t willing to write anything. I thought this might have been because they like combat more than the social parts of the game, but I talked to them and they said that they like the story more than combat. They also frequently go on their phones and just play music when I ask them not to. I have spoken to other dms and showed them my story cause I thought maybe I haven’t been dming well, but they said that what I was doing was fine. I frankly don’t know what to do at this point with them, but they are my friends and I don’t want to just stop playing with them. Does anyone know what I should do?
You could make either encounters harder for them of you could make it where that there faces are so common with thieves that the guard surround them and attack them. Or just go with what they are doing and make the ending of the campaign terrible for them by adding up all that they have done through the campaign.
I might try that last part, and bring up everything bad they did at the end, but I feel like the players don’t even care about the game from how they act, so I think they won’t even care.
For real: if you are not having fun DMing for this group, stop. If your group is acting out because they don't fear/consider consequences, give them a reason to. Adventurers have notoriety/infamy. Show them what happens to murder hobos when the army gets called in to deal with them.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thanks, I’ll talk to them one more time about it, but if they don’t stop I’m just gonna have the army fight them and potentially kill them. Then hopefully they’ll learn when playing their next characters.
I'd suggest finding a different group of players you don't have to convince to care. Even DMing a campaign for 1 or 2 commited players is far more rewarding than herding a group of uninterested players and stressing yourself out. DMing should be just as fun as playing.
NP. I know it might seem cruel to others, but sometimes players just need to have their characters be horribly slaughtered before understanding that D&D is a group game, that the DM is very much part of the group too, and not putting in their own effort/stomping on the DM's effort does not lead to a fun experience for anyone.
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You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I think the question you've got to ask yourself is are you having fun with your friends like this if not tell them... maybe its best to go back to playing multiplayer borderlands 2 or what ever As tempting as it maybe to introduce "consequences" and put a 10000 GP dead or preferably dead bounty on there heads you really don't want to get into a me versus them with your mates do you ?
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“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
It sounds like they've made a particular way of acting to be cool at that table, which could make it harder for any one of them to stop. I support people playing the way they want to play, but if they've said they want the story, you might have to make some ground rules. Maybe run something like an session 0 refresh, to confirm what they want and what the expectations for the table are.
At my table, we've talked about immersion, so we use phones on break, but not at the table, unless it's for DnDBeyond.
Like others have said, there should be consequences for their actions. I wouldn't necessarily wait for the end of the campaign. I'd also consider doing more guiding, along the lines of "You sense he has valuable knowledge to offer" or have them cursed, or chased by vigilantes or whatever.
Alternatively, if they are your friends, just have an honest conversation with them. Don't point fingers or place blame, just say that you're not having fun on this side of the DM screen and offer to let someone else take over. If no one wants to, make sure they know how much work goes into being the DM and ask them to respect that work a bit more.
It sounds like they are wanting to play a different game than the one you're trying to run. If you play against each other, then nobody's gonna have fun. I'd either recommend going with the flow and making just a buck wild fun non-serious murder-hobo-friendly game, or telling your players you're not having any fun and want to run a more serious game.
If either of those options sounds bad to either party, ya gotta find another group
They also aren’t willing to put any effort into the game. I had to spend weeks before they agreed to make their characters, and when I brought up that they didn’t write any backstorys, they said that they would do it later, but after weeks they still hadn’t done it.
I've flagged one clause in your story that popped out at me... you had to spend weeks before they agreed to make their characters. It sounds like this may be a group of people that you have arm-twisted into playing D&D with you? If so, that is never a good idea. Even if they all said they wanted to play D&D, but then you had to twist their arms to get them to actually make up PCs, I would call that a red flag. It means that they don't actually want to play -- because people who actually want to play D&D, will make up characters before you even ask. Or maybe several characters (and be unable to choose which one they want to play because they're all cool).
Thus, it sounds to me like, perhaps, you are playing with a group of people who don't really want to play D&D. So I agree with the rest of the posters on the thread.. you need to have an out of character, DM to players (no RP involved) conversation about this and explain to them just what the problem with. Ask them (be honest, it won't hurt your feelings), do they really want to play D&D at all?
If they say heck yes, they do want to play D&D, then you need to explain to them that you prefer a more "serious" campaign -- by which I mean, you prefer when they take their characters, your world, and the NPCs seriously and try to act as a real dwarf or elf or druid would, not just go around killing shop owners and taking their stuff. Explain that as a DM, you have no interest in GMing for a bunch of murder-hobos, so if that is what they want to play, maybe you could be a player with them, and one of them could DM, but you won't be the DM.
Bio wizard nailed it. They don’t want to play. Find a different group that does want to play, and go back to doing with these friends whatever it was you all did before you started playing D&D. Everyone will be happier for it.
Adjust the game to your players level of commitment. So basically forget most of prepping, always assume they're going act like murderhobos and try to create some kind of loose structure around that. Underline that they're seen as total outcasts in the game world. Maybe this would be a decent way to push them towards traditional dungeon crawling as the only way they can acquire coin and supplies is either by killing and looting or seeking some buried treasures?
You should forget about backstories, roleplaying and stuff like that and try to aim towards a fun hack 'n' slash / beer & pretzels type of campaign.
...not just go around killing shop owners and taking their stuff. Explain that as a DM, you have no interest in GMing for a bunch of murder-hobos, so if that is what they want to play, maybe you could be a player with them, and one of them could DM, but you won't be the DM.
That's what Ilike to call "The Skyrim Effect." lol. A lot of newer players that are used to playing video games like Skyrim expect it to work the same way. After all, there are both dungeons and dragons in that game.
Sorry I didn’t specify, what I meant was that I was specifying about 4 people in that part, and they asked me to join our game, so I agreed, and told them about the game. When I asked them to make their characters, so that I could introduce them to the rest of the party, they said that they would do it later. I agreed, but after a week or so they still hadn’t made them, so I asked them about it, and they said they didn’t have time, but I’m in a discord server with them, and I know for a fact that they had plenty of time. I mentioned that, and after some more talking I managed to convince them to work on their characters that week. Finally by about Saturday if that week they managed to make their characters, but I found out that they hadn’t wrote a backstory like I asked everyone, so I mentioned that again, and they refused to do it, leading to what I wrote in the original post. Sorry for the misunderstanding
If you really want to play with these people, throw your elaborate campaign out the window.
Drop a map, hint, clue, rumor about some temple/cave/ruins that has great danger but fantastic treasure.
After they get in, drop the roof on the entrance (see LoTR FotR).
They can encounter a merchant of some sort, but if they kill him, no resupply.
Other than that, throw as much stuff as they want to kill at them sprinkled with loot like candy crack. Dungeons are places where it's mostly ok to be a murder hobo.
More fun for them, less stress for you.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Easy way to keep a party that actually wants to play in line is making everyone in the world a shape changed golden dragon, and none of them happen to know they are a golden dragon. All jokes aside though.
If you ant them to make backstories, you could work it out personally, and even tell them that you can play through them if they are reasonable and or interesting.
Sorry I didn’t specify, what I meant was that I was specifying about 4 people in that part, and they asked me to join our game, so I agreed, and told them about the game.
OK let me see if I understand the timeline here....
You had an existing game of D&D with an existing group of players that was going just fine in terms of your tastes as a DM. You and the existing players were happily taking the game seriously and playing it "straight," with the players respecting the laws of the world and so on.
Then this other group of 4 people perhaps heard about how fun your game was and they asked to join you, and you said OK. Following this, you told them about your world and how things work. Have I got it so far?
When I asked them to make their characters, so that I could introduce them to the rest of the party, they said that they would do it later. I agreed, but after a week or so they still hadn’t made them, so I asked them about it, and they said they didn’t have time, but I’m in a discord server with them, and I know for a fact that they had plenty of time.
I am having trouble understanding these people, if I've got things right so far. They asked to be in your game, and when you said "sure, here's what the game is like, make up some characters" they said "we don't have time?" That is a red flag for me. How are they going to have time to be in your game sessions if they don't even have time to make up characters? And as you noted about Discord, you presumably saw them goofing off and doing all kinds of other stuff, so they actually do have time. Which would lead me to ask, were I you, "Why did you people ask to join this game in the first place?"
They still seem to me like people who don't really want to play D&D. Could it be that they've been hearing how much fun you and your group are having and want in on the "fun" but don't realize what D&D is all about?
I don't like to be heartless but if these guys have come into an existing group and are wrecking it not only for the DM but for the other players, they're getting the boot from me, if I'm the one running things. It's bad enough to make the DM miserable (players shouldn't, but the DM also needs to be able to sometimes suck it up for the "greater good" as long as the entire rest of the party is having fun), but making other players miserable is a cardinal sin at my table and is not allowed.
Hi, I’m looking for tips or help on how to deal with my party, they are the definition of murder hobos, they go around killing whoever they want and stealing whatever they can. I had introduced characters in the past, who they just decided for no reason to kill. I tried to ask them why, but they said they just felt like it. They also aren’t willing to put any effort into the game. I had to spend weeks before they agreed to make their characters, and when I brought up that they didn’t write any backstorys, they said that they would do it later, but after weeks they still hadn’t done it. It got to the point when they just made me write their backstorys for them, because they aren’t willing to write anything. I thought this might have been because they like combat more than the social parts of the game, but I talked to them and they said that they like the story more than combat. They also frequently go on their phones and just play music when I ask them not to. I have spoken to other dms and showed them my story cause I thought maybe I haven’t been dming well, but they said that what I was doing was fine. I frankly don’t know what to do at this point with them, but they are my friends and I don’t want to just stop playing with them. Does anyone know what I should do?
You could make either encounters harder for them of you could make it where that there faces are so common with thieves that the guard surround them and attack them. Or just go with what they are doing and make the ending of the campaign terrible for them by adding up all that they have done through the campaign.
I might try that last part, and bring up everything bad they did at the end, but I feel like the players don’t even care about the game from how they act, so I think they won’t even care.
For real: if you are not having fun DMing for this group, stop. If your group is acting out because they don't fear/consider consequences, give them a reason to. Adventurers have notoriety/infamy. Show them what happens to murder hobos when the army gets called in to deal with them.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Thanks, I’ll talk to them one more time about it, but if they don’t stop I’m just gonna have the army fight them and potentially kill them. Then hopefully they’ll learn when playing their next characters.
I'd suggest finding a different group of players you don't have to convince to care. Even DMing a campaign for 1 or 2 commited players is far more rewarding than herding a group of uninterested players and stressing yourself out. DMing should be just as fun as playing.
NP. I know it might seem cruel to others, but sometimes players just need to have their characters be horribly slaughtered before understanding that D&D is a group game, that the DM is very much part of the group too, and not putting in their own effort/stomping on the DM's effort does not lead to a fun experience for anyone.
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I think the question you've got to ask yourself is are you having fun with your friends like this if not tell them... maybe its best to go back to playing multiplayer borderlands 2 or what ever
As tempting as it maybe to introduce "consequences" and put a 10000 GP dead or preferably dead bounty on there heads you really don't want to get into a me versus them with your mates do you ?
“It cannot be seen, cannot be felt, Cannot be heard, cannot be smelt, It lies behind stars and under hills, And empty holes it fills, It comes first and follows after, Ends life, kills laughter.” J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit, or There and Back Again
It sounds like they've made a particular way of acting to be cool at that table, which could make it harder for any one of them to stop. I support people playing the way they want to play, but if they've said they want the story, you might have to make some ground rules. Maybe run something like an session 0 refresh, to confirm what they want and what the expectations for the table are.
At my table, we've talked about immersion, so we use phones on break, but not at the table, unless it's for DnDBeyond.
Like others have said, there should be consequences for their actions. I wouldn't necessarily wait for the end of the campaign. I'd also consider doing more guiding, along the lines of "You sense he has valuable knowledge to offer" or have them cursed, or chased by vigilantes or whatever.
Alternatively, if they are your friends, just have an honest conversation with them. Don't point fingers or place blame, just say that you're not having fun on this side of the DM screen and offer to let someone else take over. If no one wants to, make sure they know how much work goes into being the DM and ask them to respect that work a bit more.
It sounds like they are wanting to play a different game than the one you're trying to run. If you play against each other, then nobody's gonna have fun. I'd either recommend going with the flow and making just a buck wild fun non-serious murder-hobo-friendly game, or telling your players you're not having any fun and want to run a more serious game.
If either of those options sounds bad to either party, ya gotta find another group
I've flagged one clause in your story that popped out at me... you had to spend weeks before they agreed to make their characters. It sounds like this may be a group of people that you have arm-twisted into playing D&D with you? If so, that is never a good idea. Even if they all said they wanted to play D&D, but then you had to twist their arms to get them to actually make up PCs, I would call that a red flag. It means that they don't actually want to play -- because people who actually want to play D&D, will make up characters before you even ask. Or maybe several characters (and be unable to choose which one they want to play because they're all cool).
Thus, it sounds to me like, perhaps, you are playing with a group of people who don't really want to play D&D. So I agree with the rest of the posters on the thread.. you need to have an out of character, DM to players (no RP involved) conversation about this and explain to them just what the problem with. Ask them (be honest, it won't hurt your feelings), do they really want to play D&D at all?
If they say heck yes, they do want to play D&D, then you need to explain to them that you prefer a more "serious" campaign -- by which I mean, you prefer when they take their characters, your world, and the NPCs seriously and try to act as a real dwarf or elf or druid would, not just go around killing shop owners and taking their stuff. Explain that as a DM, you have no interest in GMing for a bunch of murder-hobos, so if that is what they want to play, maybe you could be a player with them, and one of them could DM, but you won't be the DM.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Bio wizard nailed it. They don’t want to play. Find a different group that does want to play, and go back to doing with these friends whatever it was you all did before you started playing D&D. Everyone will be happier for it.
You probably need to have a Session 0 where you and the party agree on expectations and behaviors.
Some people use D&D as a vehicle to just hang out with friends. Some are only interested in combat and how fast they can kill monsters.
As for using their phones to play music and be disruptive, maybe they need to leave their phones in another room.
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Adjust the game to your players level of commitment. So basically forget most of prepping, always assume they're going act like murderhobos and try to create some kind of loose structure around that. Underline that they're seen as total outcasts in the game world. Maybe this would be a decent way to push them towards traditional dungeon crawling as the only way they can acquire coin and supplies is either by killing and looting or seeking some buried treasures?
You should forget about backstories, roleplaying and stuff like that and try to aim towards a fun hack 'n' slash / beer & pretzels type of campaign.
That's what Ilike to call "The Skyrim Effect." lol. A lot of newer players that are used to playing video games like Skyrim expect it to work the same way. After all, there are both dungeons and dragons in that game.
Unless they use their phones for DDB access. ;) Just set a table rule of no music at the game.
Sorry I didn’t specify, what I meant was that I was specifying about 4 people in that part, and they asked me to join our game, so I agreed, and told them about the game. When I asked them to make their characters, so that I could introduce them to the rest of the party, they said that they would do it later. I agreed, but after a week or so they still hadn’t made them, so I asked them about it, and they said they didn’t have time, but I’m in a discord server with them, and I know for a fact that they had plenty of time. I mentioned that, and after some more talking I managed to convince them to work on their characters that week. Finally by about Saturday if that week they managed to make their characters, but I found out that they hadn’t wrote a backstory like I asked everyone, so I mentioned that again, and they refused to do it, leading to what I wrote in the original post. Sorry for the misunderstanding
If you really want to play with these people, throw your elaborate campaign out the window.
Drop a map, hint, clue, rumor about some temple/cave/ruins that has great danger but fantastic treasure.
After they get in, drop the roof on the entrance (see LoTR FotR).
They can encounter a merchant of some sort, but if they kill him, no resupply.
Other than that, throw as much stuff as they want to kill at them sprinkled with loot like candy crack. Dungeons are places where it's mostly ok to be a murder hobo.
More fun for them, less stress for you.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Easy way to keep a party that actually wants to play in line is making everyone in the world a shape changed golden dragon, and none of them happen to know they are a golden dragon. All jokes aside though.
If you ant them to make backstories, you could work it out personally, and even tell them that you can play through them if they are reasonable and or interesting.
Also known as CrafterB and DankMemer.
Here, have some homebrew classes! Subclasses to? Why not races. Feats, feats as well. I have a lot of magic items. Lastly I got monsters, fun, fun times.
OK let me see if I understand the timeline here....
You had an existing game of D&D with an existing group of players that was going just fine in terms of your tastes as a DM. You and the existing players were happily taking the game seriously and playing it "straight," with the players respecting the laws of the world and so on.
Then this other group of 4 people perhaps heard about how fun your game was and they asked to join you, and you said OK. Following this, you told them about your world and how things work. Have I got it so far?
I am having trouble understanding these people, if I've got things right so far. They asked to be in your game, and when you said "sure, here's what the game is like, make up some characters" they said "we don't have time?" That is a red flag for me. How are they going to have time to be in your game sessions if they don't even have time to make up characters? And as you noted about Discord, you presumably saw them goofing off and doing all kinds of other stuff, so they actually do have time. Which would lead me to ask, were I you, "Why did you people ask to join this game in the first place?"
They still seem to me like people who don't really want to play D&D. Could it be that they've been hearing how much fun you and your group are having and want in on the "fun" but don't realize what D&D is all about?
I don't like to be heartless but if these guys have come into an existing group and are wrecking it not only for the DM but for the other players, they're getting the boot from me, if I'm the one running things. It's bad enough to make the DM miserable (players shouldn't, but the DM also needs to be able to sometimes suck it up for the "greater good" as long as the entire rest of the party is having fun), but making other players miserable is a cardinal sin at my table and is not allowed.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.