I've just started a new campaign with level 1 characters. One of the rogues in the party successfully picked someone's pocket.
I was thinking that accomplishing something like that using a class appropriate skill is deserving of experience points. In the case of picking a pocket, I was thinking 10 xp.
Has anyone else done this? Are there guidelines outside of the major books discussing this type of reward?
Finally, and I know that I’m a bit radical in this, I do not use experience at all. In our groups, the DM very arbitrarily tells the whole group to increase their level more or less regularly (we almost never spend more than one session at level 1 because the characters have so few options for example), when he thinks it’s been a while, when the opposition for the next segment of the campaign will be stronger, etc. Experience is artificial anyway, it’s mostly a story trick like authors are using in their novels to further the plot by showing character progress and opening new possibilities.
It's not that radical, that's frequently the effect of waypoints.
As the actual target of this question let me help you out and say don't do it. While I'd appreciate it I agree with Lyxen to a point. I tend to prefer keeping everyone about even as they progress. This means using a more milestone based advancement. Especially since in game opportunities as well as player imagination may limit how much each player gets often causing jealousy over the appearance of favoritism. However if you are going to choose xp advancement then I'd keep track on an undisclosed list those things you deem worthy. As we near level advancement if a character looks as if they might fall short of leveling you can pull from this pool and grant them a "Role play bonus" and bump them up. You can also use XP as straight up good role play bait but in this format I feel it does slow things a bit especially done in game when given at the time of the action. No matter how or if you decide to use small XP awards I wouldn't disclose them until breaks in play such as long rests. Even then I'd assigned them as "RP XP" and not align them with specific actions unless forced to justify and since your the DM you don't have have to justify diddly if you don't want to. But some times to smoother weaker player egos you may have to. But again that can lead to encouraging better group play once you explain why some got more than others is because they did additional things to benefit the party.
In the end it all really comes down to your DM style. How much do you want to have to track? Do you think you'll be able to provide enough encounters and enough XP to have your players reach the required ability levels to meet the challenges you're about to throw at them? Or the biggest reason, how.much do you want to have to argue with players over what is worthy and what isn't?
Personally I like tracking XP simply because it slows advancement a little and allows me to really get a feel for playing the character. I also like the anticipation it generates. I've been In a games where the milestone advancement happened so fast I felt like what was the point of creating a level one character if I was going to hit level 3 after one or two encounters. I could have just joined the game with a character currently at level whatever and continued their advancement. But my gaming style is that of a grinder in general so I'm a bit abnormal when it comes to your average player who just wants to get to the bigger damage and bigger abilities.
Did the rogue pick someone's pocket for his own gain? If so, and it was successful, the rogue got a reward -- whatever was in the pocket... 10 gp, or a gem, or a potion of shrinking or whatever. No need for further rewards like XP.
Did the rogue pick someone's pocket to advance the goals of the party? If so, then when the party gets XP for the goals having been achieved (whatever those goals may be) the rogue's actions are a part of it, and get folded into the entire party achieving the goal.
This is why I give out "milestone XP" rather than encounter XP. Your goal is to rescue the princess from the dragon. Doing so is worth 10,000 XP divided by party size. If you rescue her, you get the XP, however you do it. If you sneak in and kidnap her back, without waking the dragon, you get the XP. If you bull your way in and fight and kill the dragon, you get the XP. If you sweet-talk the dragon into surrendering her, you get the XP. If the rogue swipes something unseen from the dragon while the party sweet-talks him into giving her back, the rogue gets whatever he took, sure...but I wouldn't give extra XP for that.
Maybe give out an inspiration for something like this?
What you are about to read (or ignore, it’s your life, you do you) is entirely my own personal approach based on my experiences. It is in no way my telling anyone what what they “should do” by any means. Your fun is not wrong, and the only “wrong way to D&D” is the way that prevents the folks at your table from having fun. Like I said, you do you. I can only tell you how I do things, not how you should do them. I won’t tell you how to run your games, please do return the curtesy by not telling me my way is wrong either. I only hope this is in some way informative of a way to do things.
When I DM, I award XP for pretty much everything the PCs do. I know how that in and of itself doesn’t answer your specific question, so lemme elaborate a bit.
When it comes to “combat encounters,” the thing one has to realize is also the thing most commonly overlooked. That is to say, the name itself is very misleading since combat in D&D can (and should IMO) be largely optional. That is to say, the players should still be able to progress the PCs’ story without having to kill everything. If they are exploring a dungeon and come across [insert “monster” X here] in an area. The Players should not automatically feel obliged to kill “monster” X. I used quotes since technically every single creature in he entire multiverses not directly under Player control is labeled a ”monster” in 5e, like the commoner.)
Now, they players can (and frequently do) choose to fight that monster, but they don’t have to kill it. I mean, George Forman beat Mohamed Ali without killing him. But they might Choose to not fight it at all.
They may choose stealth as a way of circumventing the monster just like when the Fellowship tried to sneak through Moria in LotR. Maybe they’ll try subterfuge. I remember a tale of a diminutive burglar who singlehandedly defeated thee trolls, saving his entire adventuring part from a literal stew pot through subterfuge. He later also used subterfuge to steal an entire treasure hoard right from under the nose of an Ancient Dragon while the rest of the party waited outside the dungeon. Maybe they’ll try negotiating. That same burglar managed to outwit a particularly unsavory fellow with a throat condition and score himself a nifty new Attunement Item in the process.
Now, those alternatives to fighting don’t always work, but it most certainly should be up to the players if they want to try it. And if it doesn’t work, the party can still fall back on the old spell & steel approach. But if the DM only ever gives XP for MDKs, the players will pick up on that and then they start to feel that they have no real alternatives to combat.
I cannot tell you how many DMs I have encountered that insist XP should only be awarded for killing monsters. They are also most often the DMs who complain the most about their players being Murder Hoboes. 🤦♂️ I mean, if a DM only ever rewards killing, then the players rapidly learn that killing = right and everything else = not right. That’s just how the concepts of positive and negative reinforcement work. It’s the same way one trains an animal. It’s the same way children learn, why would it not also apply to D&D players?!?
So instead of only rewarding PCs for acts of violence, I reward them for everything. I don’t care what actions the Players take to “overcome the challenges” I present them, I only that they succeed, and to what degree. As long as the challenge was overcome, they get XP for it. Because of that, the players always have a sense of control over their Characters’ actions because they know that their choices actually matter and they don’t have to simply follow the predetermined concept that killing = right and everything else = not right. (That is just one of the ways I put as much agency in the hands of the players as I possibly can.)
* * *
When it comes to using their proficiencies, I usually award PCs 25 XP for each “significant success,” and potentially more if they did a particularly good job of it. As far as I’m concerned, any Skill, Tool, Instrument, Gaming Set, (and potentially even Language) proficiency granted through by the PC’s Race, Class, or Background is eligible. So a Dwarven Fighter who uses to be a Sage doesn’t only ever have to do “fighter things.” When I say “significant success,” what I mean is they did something that advances the party in the pursuit of their chosen objectives, whatever those may be.
If a PC picks a lock to literally get the party into the next room, that advances the Party. If a PC disarms a trap, thereby saving the party from potential injury, that advances them as well, does it not? If another PC does some sort of performance which wins a competition, and therefore curries favor with the local populace and/or government, doesn’t that also likely expand on the Party’s influence in the world, and further their ability to achieve their goals? So why shouldn’t those PCs have their contributions acknowledged? There is a mechanic for rewarding the PCs for doing stuff, why not use it?
I don’t award inspiration in campaigns I DM. I’m not actually a fan of that particular mechanic. I started playing D&D a long time ago before anybody had even dreamed up the (Dis)Advantage system. So I prefer the “old fashioned approach” of a small XP boost.
Earlier this year (feels like forever ago 🙄 stupid COVID rasumfrasurm) the party I was DMing for at the time was on the road to adventure (actually it was the road to Threshold) when they came across a carter and his skittish mule. The carter was very frustrated and angry at the mule since it’s skittishness had caused it to startle and that in turn caused the cart it was pulling to get stuck in a ditch in the road. Technically that’s an encounter with two monsters, so obviously the party should kill them both for XP, right? 🤨 Of course not.
The party could have just passed on by, but instead they chose to pause for a few minutes to lend a hand. As far as I’m concerned it’s their campaign, so if they choose to change the party’s current objective from “reach Threshold” to “help this random stranger” I have no problem with that. After all, I personally try to put as much of that control in their hands as I possibly can.
One of the PC’s used (Persuasion) to prevent the carter from acting out his feelings on the poor, frightened animal, and he used (Animal Handling) to calm the mule down. he ended up purchasing the mule (for a generous price) so the carter could go get himself a new mule, and simultaneously acquired a mule for the party’s benefit. Although memorable, the whole encounter was so brief it was barely a speed bump in the session. What I call a general win+win+win+win for all involved. You’re gosh darned tootin’ that PC picked up an extra 25 XP for that on the spot.
Yes, I absolutely give those little XP awards in situ, in real time. Those players learned right then and there that the actions their Characters take to influence the world in which they live actually matter. They learned that any actions they take that have a positive influence on that world will be recognized. They learned that interacting with the other people of that world has merit. They learned that Killing =/= Right and that Not Killing =/= Not Right. And all took was 10 minutes of role playing and 25 XP. Since the campaign had 7 players, that’s more what I would call a win+win+win+win+win+win+win+win.
Conversely, one of my PCs in a campaign run by another DM is an Elven Artificer. During one particular Long Rest, the party was encamped with a local Troll. That particular troll was non-hostile since it was on friendly terms with an NPC that as acting as a local wilderness guide since the Party was small and lacked a Ranger.
During the evening’s meal, the Troll lamented that he had no pot with which to make his “famous” troll stew for everyone. Since my character only needed a four hour trance, he had plenty of time to kill while the rest of the party got their beauty sleep. He took an hour to use RTftJ as a means of acquiring Mason’s Tools, and then spent the rest of that time carving a small boulder into a serviceable cooking vessel. Come morning, that troll was very appreciative of his new pot, and pledged his alliance if the party were ever in the area again and in need of help. That DM only ever awards XP at the end of each adventure, so I have no idea if my character got any XP for those actions at all, or if so how much. So what did I learn?
Now, admittedly this situation was different from my last example in one major way. I have been a player in that DM’s games for the past 15 years, as have the other players in that game. There was no need for an educational moment. So it really isn’t an apples to apples comparison, but it still serves to illustrate the point.
By the same token, if a player decides to try to try to highjack the campaign and hog the spotlight for any extended period of time they get no XP for those actions and instead get told to not be a wangrod. If I have to have that conversation with the same person a second time, then they get a second option of not bothering to show up anymore either. I won’t say it a third time. Just like baseball, three trikes and you’re out. I started playing D&D almost 3 decades ago, and in all that time I have only ever had to drop one player, and that was over 20 years ago. I simply make it very clear that I won’t put up with that nonsense, and it hasn’t ever been a problem except for that one time.
That was just one person’s answer to a very big question. I just hope that it was in some way a helpful answer.
Of course, you're also doing it very similarly to how I do it (reward for successful actions, regardless of the method), so I guess I'm doing it wrong too. ;)
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Of course, you're also doing it very similarly to how I do it (reward for successful actions, regardless of the method), so I guess I'm doing it wrong too. ;)
Yeah, the only real difference is you use the Milestone method and I prefer a system that doesn’t not put the onus on me to decide what the PCs are “sposta” accomplish. 😉 The players pick the party’s objectives based on what they want to do.
That’s why I’m not a fan of the long format “adventures” published nowadays that would have been considered short campaigns 30 years ago. I still use the older modules I already have since they’re shorter and therefore I can weave them together however best fits each campaign.
If I were going to award XP for this, I'd probably go higher than 10XP, maybe even 50XP. But for many reasons folks don't do this anymore.
It is my opinion that XP was awarded to help entice the players to engage with the world around them and to recognize greater contributions over lesser contributions.
With milestone leveling so prevalent, I recommend giving your Rogue "DM Inspiration." This is a reward the DM may give out for players doing a good job of Playing D&D. Good RP, coming up with the solution to a riddle, somehow setting the example for the other PCs as a player, may be rewarded by the DM. It allows the player to re-roll a bad important roll in the game. Unfortunately, many players hold onto their "inspiration" and never use it.
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Unfortunately, many players hold onto their "inspiration" and never use it.
Yes, my players do this. Even though they can earn them for things like writing up journal entries of last week's session.
That’s precisely one of the reasons I am not personally in love with the the mechanic. However, one of the other DMs in our group imposed the houserule that all inspiration resets to 0 at the end of every session.
If I were going to award XP for this, I'd probably go higher than 10XP, maybe even 50XP. But for many reasons folks don't do this anymore.
It is my opinion that XP was awarded to help entice the players to engage with the world around them and to recognize greater contributions over lesser contributions.
With milestone leveling so prevalent, I recommend giving your Rogue "DM Inspiration." This is a reward the DM may give out for players doing a good job of Playing D&D. Good RP, coming up with the solution to a riddle, somehow setting the example for the other PCs as a player, may be rewarded by the DM. It allows the player to re-roll a bad important roll in the game. Unfortunately, many players hold onto their "inspiration" and never use it.
Just to point out but at level 1 ... 50XP amounts to 1/6 of the total XP needed to reach level 2 ... so 50XP is probably a bit much.
Personally, these days, I just use milestone leveling since it saves time and effort tallying and dividing XP and just results in a smoother level progression through the content (or at least one that fits with what the DM is looking for :) ).
I want to thank everyone for their comments. As I read the various responses, I realized that I wasn't asking the right question (nor consciously aware of that question). And, the great minds on DnDBeyond answered that question anyway. Based upon a variety of reasons, I was really interested in awarding xp for non-combat situations, or more specifically, rewarding good roleplaying. Combat is a fun part of DnD, but, the roleplaying aspects (for me at least), are what really makes the game thrive.
You've give me a variety of approaches to dealing with non-combat experience, that I think I can use. Thanks for getting my brain going in the right direction.
Easiest way to deal with this is to simply use the Milestone system or just totally ignore XP.
Most dungeon modules say both what level you should be coming in and how many you should gain coming out, particularly if you use a series of adventures. Just do that .
If I were going to award XP for this, I'd probably go higher than 10XP, maybe even 50XP. But for many reasons folks don't do this anymore.
Seriously? You're going to hand out 50 exp to a level 1 for picking 1 random pocket??
Yes, I am serious. It might be 40 XP, but it is a heck of a lot more than 10 XP.
My reasoning is as follows ...
The guidance for D&D indicates players should level up after the first session. A thief using their thief skills should gain them XP. Other classes using their signature skills should gain them XP. But in this case (this incident, or this event) the thief is the only one to gain the XP, not the whole party. So we need to expect to use table time to let the other players do the same thing; gain XP doing something other than killing monsters(*). So if we have a table of 4 players, a 5 minute encounter with the thief picking a pocket would come with three other encounters of the players doing something for XP (not forced, just anticipated). So after 20 minutes, everyone in the party has gained 50 XP. I figure that is comparable to slaying monsters for XP.
(*) But what about Fighters, Barbarians and other PCs that are really only built to slay things? Well, that might be a problem. Can they use intimidation to get what they want? Can they do other things (RP-wise) to further the party's goals? I would like to see that at the table.
Now, for other reasons, I think milestone leveling is better, so handing out any XP for using abilities would not be my normal method. Approaching leveling this way (handing out individual XP) has some downside, such as the caution some folks offered that would entice players to pursue their own goals and not act as a team.
I've heard a lot of folks here say, "Oh yea, I give out XP for good RP." But if you're giving out 10 XP at a time, those players will never gain anything tangible from their RP so that is the same as not giving out anything.
If 10 XP were a normal 'reward', then consider this. If the player had three chances per session to use their signature abilities then they get 30 XP per session. So at the end of the first session the players should level up. Regular party players have 300 XP (or more) but your other player has 330 XP. Now at the end of the second session, the players should be well on their way to leveling up again; and maybe they are there. So let's imagine they have as many as 900 XP and level up. And our other player has 960 XP. As you can see, the small bit of XP that comes from 10 XP per event gets lost in the noise of the numbers quickly.
Therefore, as a reward for this, I think awarding DM inspiration is a better way because it gives the player something tangible and doesn't interfere with milestone leveling, which I also think would work best for most tables.
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I've just started a new campaign with level 1 characters. One of the rogues in the party successfully picked someone's pocket.
I was thinking that accomplishing something like that using a class appropriate skill is deserving of experience points. In the case of picking a pocket, I was thinking 10 xp.
Has anyone else done this? Are there guidelines outside of the major books discussing this type of reward?
The DMG has rules, but they're pretty minimal.
It's not that radical, that's frequently the effect of waypoints.
As the actual target of this question let me help you out and say don't do it. While I'd appreciate it I agree with Lyxen to a point. I tend to prefer keeping everyone about even as they progress. This means using a more milestone based advancement. Especially since in game opportunities as well as player imagination may limit how much each player gets often causing jealousy over the appearance of favoritism. However if you are going to choose xp advancement then I'd keep track on an undisclosed list those things you deem worthy. As we near level advancement if a character looks as if they might fall short of leveling you can pull from this pool and grant them a "Role play bonus" and bump them up. You can also use XP as straight up good role play bait but in this format I feel it does slow things a bit especially done in game when given at the time of the action. No matter how or if you decide to use small XP awards I wouldn't disclose them until breaks in play such as long rests. Even then I'd assigned them as "RP XP" and not align them with specific actions unless forced to justify and since your the DM you don't have have to justify diddly if you don't want to. But some times to smoother weaker player egos you may have to. But again that can lead to encouraging better group play once you explain why some got more than others is because they did additional things to benefit the party.
In the end it all really comes down to your DM style. How much do you want to have to track? Do you think you'll be able to provide enough encounters and enough XP to have your players reach the required ability levels to meet the challenges you're about to throw at them? Or the biggest reason, how.much do you want to have to argue with players over what is worthy and what isn't?
Personally I like tracking XP simply because it slows advancement a little and allows me to really get a feel for playing the character. I also like the anticipation it generates. I've been In a games where the milestone advancement happened so fast I felt like what was the point of creating a level one character if I was going to hit level 3 after one or two encounters. I could have just joined the game with a character currently at level whatever and continued their advancement. But my gaming style is that of a grinder in general so I'm a bit abnormal when it comes to your average player who just wants to get to the bigger damage and bigger abilities.
**This Space for Rent**
Did the rogue pick someone's pocket for his own gain? If so, and it was successful, the rogue got a reward -- whatever was in the pocket... 10 gp, or a gem, or a potion of shrinking or whatever. No need for further rewards like XP.
Did the rogue pick someone's pocket to advance the goals of the party? If so, then when the party gets XP for the goals having been achieved (whatever those goals may be) the rogue's actions are a part of it, and get folded into the entire party achieving the goal.
This is why I give out "milestone XP" rather than encounter XP. Your goal is to rescue the princess from the dragon. Doing so is worth 10,000 XP divided by party size. If you rescue her, you get the XP, however you do it. If you sneak in and kidnap her back, without waking the dragon, you get the XP. If you bull your way in and fight and kill the dragon, you get the XP. If you sweet-talk the dragon into surrendering her, you get the XP. If the rogue swipes something unseen from the dragon while the party sweet-talks him into giving her back, the rogue gets whatever he took, sure...but I wouldn't give extra XP for that.
Maybe give out an inspiration for something like this?
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Disclaimer:
What you are about to read (or ignore, it’s your life, you do you) is entirely my own personal approach based on my experiences. It is in no way my telling anyone what what they “should do” by any means. Your fun is not wrong, and the only “wrong way to D&D” is the way that prevents the folks at your table from having fun. Like I said, you do you. I can only tell you how I do things, not how you should do them. I won’t tell you how to run your games, please do return the curtesy by not telling me my way is wrong either. I only hope this is in some way informative of a way to do things.
When I DM, I award XP for pretty much everything the PCs do. I know how that in and of itself doesn’t answer your specific question, so lemme elaborate a bit.
When it comes to “combat encounters,” the thing one has to realize is also the thing most commonly overlooked. That is to say, the name itself is very misleading since combat in D&D can (and should IMO) be largely optional. That is to say, the players should still be able to progress the PCs’ story without having to kill everything. If they are exploring a dungeon and come across [insert “monster” X here] in an area. The Players should not automatically feel obliged to kill “monster” X. I used quotes since technically every single creature in he entire multiverses not directly under Player control is labeled a ”monster” in 5e, like the commoner.)
Now, they players can (and frequently do) choose to fight that monster, but they don’t have to kill it. I mean, George Forman beat Mohamed Ali without killing him. But they might Choose to not fight it at all.
They may choose stealth as a way of circumventing the monster just like when the Fellowship tried to sneak through Moria in LotR. Maybe they’ll try subterfuge. I remember a tale of a diminutive burglar who singlehandedly defeated thee trolls, saving his entire adventuring part from a literal stew pot through subterfuge. He later also used subterfuge to steal an entire treasure hoard right from under the nose of an Ancient Dragon while the rest of the party waited outside the dungeon. Maybe they’ll try negotiating. That same burglar managed to outwit a particularly unsavory fellow with a throat condition and score himself a nifty new Attunement Item in the process.
Now, those alternatives to fighting don’t always work, but it most certainly should be up to the players if they want to try it. And if it doesn’t work, the party can still fall back on the old spell & steel approach. But if the DM only ever gives XP for MDKs, the players will pick up on that and then they start to feel that they have no real alternatives to combat.
I cannot tell you how many DMs I have encountered that insist XP should only be awarded for killing monsters. They are also most often the DMs who complain the most about their players being Murder Hoboes. 🤦♂️ I mean, if a DM only ever rewards killing, then the players rapidly learn that killing = right and everything else = not right. That’s just how the concepts of positive and negative reinforcement work. It’s the same way one trains an animal. It’s the same way children learn, why would it not also apply to D&D players?!?
So instead of only rewarding PCs for acts of violence, I reward them for everything. I don’t care what actions the Players take to “overcome the challenges” I present them, I only that they succeed, and to what degree. As long as the challenge was overcome, they get XP for it. Because of that, the players always have a sense of control over their Characters’ actions because they know that their choices actually matter and they don’t have to simply follow the predetermined concept that killing = right and everything else = not right. (That is just one of the ways I put as much agency in the hands of the players as I possibly can.)
* * *
When it comes to using their proficiencies, I usually award PCs 25 XP for each “significant success,” and potentially more if they did a particularly good job of it. As far as I’m concerned, any Skill, Tool, Instrument, Gaming Set, (and potentially even Language) proficiency granted through by the PC’s Race, Class, or Background is eligible. So a Dwarven Fighter who uses to be a Sage doesn’t only ever have to do “fighter things.” When I say “significant success,” what I mean is they did something that advances the party in the pursuit of their chosen objectives, whatever those may be.
If a PC picks a lock to literally get the party into the next room, that advances the Party. If a PC disarms a trap, thereby saving the party from potential injury, that advances them as well, does it not? If another PC does some sort of performance which wins a competition, and therefore curries favor with the local populace and/or government, doesn’t that also likely expand on the Party’s influence in the world, and further their ability to achieve their goals? So why shouldn’t those PCs have their contributions acknowledged? There is a mechanic for rewarding the PCs for doing stuff, why not use it?
I don’t award inspiration in campaigns I DM. I’m not actually a fan of that particular mechanic. I started playing D&D a long time ago before anybody had even dreamed up the (Dis)Advantage system. So I prefer the “old fashioned approach” of a small XP boost.
Earlier this year (feels like forever ago 🙄 stupid COVID rasumfrasurm) the party I was DMing for at the time was on the road to adventure (actually it was the road to Threshold) when they came across a carter and his skittish mule. The carter was very frustrated and angry at the mule since it’s skittishness had caused it to startle and that in turn caused the cart it was pulling to get stuck in a ditch in the road. Technically that’s an encounter with two monsters, so obviously the party should kill them both for XP, right? 🤨 Of course not.
The party could have just passed on by, but instead they chose to pause for a few minutes to lend a hand. As far as I’m concerned it’s their campaign, so if they choose to change the party’s current objective from “reach Threshold” to “help this random stranger” I have no problem with that. After all, I personally try to put as much of that control in their hands as I possibly can.
One of the PC’s used (Persuasion) to prevent the carter from acting out his feelings on the poor, frightened animal, and he used (Animal Handling) to calm the mule down. he ended up purchasing the mule (for a generous price) so the carter could go get himself a new mule, and simultaneously acquired a mule for the party’s benefit. Although memorable, the whole encounter was so brief it was barely a speed bump in the session. What I call a general win+win+win+win for all involved. You’re gosh darned tootin’ that PC picked up an extra 25 XP for that on the spot.
Yes, I absolutely give those little XP awards in situ, in real time. Those players learned right then and there that the actions their Characters take to influence the world in which they live actually matter. They learned that any actions they take that have a positive influence on that world will be recognized. They learned that interacting with the other people of that world has merit. They learned that Killing =/= Right and that Not Killing =/= Not Right. And all took was 10 minutes of role playing and 25 XP. Since the campaign had 7 players, that’s more what I would call a win+win+win+win+win+win+win+win.
Conversely, one of my PCs in a campaign run by another DM is an Elven Artificer. During one particular Long Rest, the party was encamped with a local Troll. That particular troll was non-hostile since it was on friendly terms with an NPC that as acting as a local wilderness guide since the Party was small and lacked a Ranger.
During the evening’s meal, the Troll lamented that he had no pot with which to make his “famous” troll stew for everyone. Since my character only needed a four hour trance, he had plenty of time to kill while the rest of the party got their beauty sleep. He took an hour to use RTftJ as a means of acquiring Mason’s Tools, and then spent the rest of that time carving a small boulder into a serviceable cooking vessel. Come morning, that troll was very appreciative of his new pot, and pledged his alliance if the party were ever in the area again and in need of help. That DM only ever awards XP at the end of each adventure, so I have no idea if my character got any XP for those actions at all, or if so how much. So what did I learn?
Now, admittedly this situation was different from my last example in one major way. I have been a player in that DM’s games for the past 15 years, as have the other players in that game. There was no need for an educational moment. So it really isn’t an apples to apples comparison, but it still serves to illustrate the point.
By the same token, if a player decides to try to try to highjack the campaign and hog the spotlight for any extended period of time they get no XP for those actions and instead get told to not be a wangrod. If I have to have that conversation with the same person a second time, then they get a second option of not bothering to show up anymore either. I won’t say it a third time. Just like baseball, three trikes and you’re out. I started playing D&D almost 3 decades ago, and in all that time I have only ever had to drop one player, and that was over 20 years ago. I simply make it very clear that I won’t put up with that nonsense, and it hasn’t ever been a problem except for that one time.
That was just one person’s answer to a very big question. I just hope that it was in some way a helpful answer.
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Sposta... YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG!
Of course, you're also doing it very similarly to how I do it (reward for successful actions, regardless of the method), so I guess I'm doing it wrong too. ;)
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
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Yeah, the only real difference is you use the Milestone method and I prefer a system that doesn’t not put the onus on me to decide what the PCs are “sposta” accomplish. 😉 The players pick the party’s objectives based on what they want to do.
That’s why I’m not a fan of the long format “adventures” published nowadays that would have been considered short campaigns 30 years ago. I still use the older modules I already have since they’re shorter and therefore I can weave them together however best fits each campaign.
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I offered this option to my players. They said no, they wanted me to pick the objectives.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
If I were going to award XP for this, I'd probably go higher than 10XP, maybe even 50XP. But for many reasons folks don't do this anymore.
It is my opinion that XP was awarded to help entice the players to engage with the world around them and to recognize greater contributions over lesser contributions.
With milestone leveling so prevalent, I recommend giving your Rogue "DM Inspiration." This is a reward the DM may give out for players doing a good job of Playing D&D. Good RP, coming up with the solution to a riddle, somehow setting the example for the other PCs as a player, may be rewarded by the DM. It allows the player to re-roll a bad important roll in the game. Unfortunately, many players hold onto their "inspiration" and never use it.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt
Yes, my players do this. Even though they can earn them for things like writing up journal entries of last week's session.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
That’s precisely one of the reasons I am not
personally in love with the the mechanic. However, one of the other DMs in our group imposed the houserule that all inspiration resets to 0 at the end of every session.
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I tend to do that because I forget I have it. I forget I have it because it's not actually very useful.
Sometimes we plan to use it and then don't get the chance ;) The phase spider disappeared before I could attack it with inspiration!
Phase spiders will do that to ya....
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Just to point out but at level 1 ... 50XP amounts to 1/6 of the total XP needed to reach level 2 ... so 50XP is probably a bit much.
Personally, these days, I just use milestone leveling since it saves time and effort tallying and dividing XP and just results in a smoother level progression through the content (or at least one that fits with what the DM is looking for :) ).
I want to thank everyone for their comments. As I read the various responses, I realized that I wasn't asking the right question (nor consciously aware of that question). And, the great minds on DnDBeyond answered that question anyway. Based upon a variety of reasons, I was really interested in awarding xp for non-combat situations, or more specifically, rewarding good roleplaying. Combat is a fun part of DnD, but, the roleplaying aspects (for me at least), are what really makes the game thrive.
You've give me a variety of approaches to dealing with non-combat experience, that I think I can use. Thanks for getting my brain going in the right direction.
Easiest way to deal with this is to simply use the Milestone system or just totally ignore XP.
Most dungeon modules say both what level you should be coming in and how many you should gain coming out, particularly if you use a series of adventures. Just do that .
Seriously? You're going to hand out 50 exp to a level 1 for picking 1 random pocket??
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Yes, I am serious. It might be 40 XP, but it is a heck of a lot more than 10 XP.
My reasoning is as follows ...
The guidance for D&D indicates players should level up after the first session. A thief using their thief skills should gain them XP. Other classes using their signature skills should gain them XP. But in this case (this incident, or this event) the thief is the only one to gain the XP, not the whole party. So we need to expect to use table time to let the other players do the same thing; gain XP doing something other than killing monsters(*). So if we have a table of 4 players, a 5 minute encounter with the thief picking a pocket would come with three other encounters of the players doing something for XP (not forced, just anticipated). So after 20 minutes, everyone in the party has gained 50 XP. I figure that is comparable to slaying monsters for XP.
(*) But what about Fighters, Barbarians and other PCs that are really only built to slay things? Well, that might be a problem. Can they use intimidation to get what they want? Can they do other things (RP-wise) to further the party's goals? I would like to see that at the table.
Now, for other reasons, I think milestone leveling is better, so handing out any XP for using abilities would not be my normal method. Approaching leveling this way (handing out individual XP) has some downside, such as the caution some folks offered that would entice players to pursue their own goals and not act as a team.
I've heard a lot of folks here say, "Oh yea, I give out XP for good RP." But if you're giving out 10 XP at a time, those players will never gain anything tangible from their RP so that is the same as not giving out anything.
If 10 XP were a normal 'reward', then consider this. If the player had three chances per session to use their signature abilities then they get 30 XP per session. So at the end of the first session the players should level up. Regular party players have 300 XP (or more) but your other player has 330 XP. Now at the end of the second session, the players should be well on their way to leveling up again; and maybe they are there. So let's imagine they have as many as 900 XP and level up. And our other player has 960 XP. As you can see, the small bit of XP that comes from 10 XP per event gets lost in the noise of the numbers quickly.
Therefore, as a reward for this, I think awarding DM inspiration is a better way because it gives the player something tangible and doesn't interfere with milestone leveling, which I also think would work best for most tables.
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