I was never happy with Mage Armor, mainly because it is basically magical shielding (looking like armor), and for some strange reason it uses your dexterity modifier. I can somewhat see their reasoning, linking it to the non-magical armor system, but it really makes no sense to me...as it is magical.
This spell has a base 14 AC with uses your proficiency modifier. Due to this, it now scales. Now it is worth using all the way up to level 20 if you want. At level 20 (or when your proficiency modifier gets to +6) it will have 20 AC, but it starts a little weaker based upon your modifier. Basically as a player levels up and their proficiency modifier increases, so does the AC from the magic. My reasoning for using proficiency was to get it to scale, and it was the only easy way I could get the spell to look like it is increasing in power as your spell casting gets better etc. I did not want to have to make like 5 separate spells, like minor all the way to major shielding or make a level scaling systems within the spell, I wanted to keep it simple etc.
I was never happy with Mage Armor, mainly because it is basically magical shielding (looking like armor), and for some strange reason it uses your dexterity modifier. I can somewhat see their reasoning, linking it to the non-magical armor system, but it really makes no sense to me...as it is magical.
It uses your DEX because every AC calculation is supposed to include DEX unless your mobility is hindered (like with medium or heavy armor.) Mage Armor has traditionally been equivalent to wearing scale armor, minus the movement/weight/spellcasting penalties. In 5e it's basically +1 light armor.
My reasoning for using proficiency was to get it to scale, and it was the only easy way I could get the spell to look like it is increasing in power as your spell casting gets better etc.
I'm curious why you didn't use the caster's spellcasting ability like most other spells. Proficiency bonus is pretty unorthodox for both spell potency and AC. The only instance of that I'm aware of was the playtest version of Warforged and it wasn't well-received.
Spells aren't supposed to scale perfectly. The natural tapering of effectiveness is a deliberate design choice. If Mage Armor could trivially replace rare plate mail, that would noticeably throw off party balance and make magic users that much better than everyone else.
If Mage Armor were to scale, it should be based on spell level. (e.g. +1 AC for every 2 spell levels. If cast with a 9th level spell slot, it would provide AC 18 + Dex for 8 hours, which isn't a great use of a 9th level slot, but it's an option.)
I was never happy with Mage Armor, mainly because it is basically magical shielding (looking like armor), and for some strange reason it uses your dexterity modifier. I can somewhat see their reasoning, linking it to the non-magical armor system, but it really makes no sense to me...as it is magical.
It uses your DEX because every AC calculation is supposed to include DEX unless your mobility is hindered (like with medium or heavy armor.) Mage Armor has traditionally been equivalent to wearing scale armor, minus the movement/weight/spellcasting penalties. In 5e it's basically +1 light armor.
My point exactly, over the ages (lol) this never made sense to me, it is magic, not worn armor. Unless we are actually summoning physical armor, which is sort of the way I have always justified Mage Armor's dex...but is stats - "and a protective magical force surrounds it until the spell ends". Basic shielding, regardless of its form as a shield, a glow that forms around the shape of your body, of something manifested into the look of armor, it should have no affect on your physical movement, it is magic (unless it is some sort of heavy barrier that would hinder movement, but that is a diff magic). By past logic Shield is broken then too. Shield simply adds AC, it has nothing to do with your dex, movement, or what a character is wearing. Shield to me, is an example of how it should work. Same with concentration spells that add to AC as well, like Shield of Faith etc.
I do what to stress, I get what they were doing over the years...but it is not correct imo.
My reasoning for using proficiency was to get it to scale, and it was the only easy way I could get the spell to look like it is increasing in power as your spell casting gets better etc.
I'm curious why you didn't use the caster's spellcasting ability like most other spells. Proficiency bonus is pretty unorthodox for both spell potency and AC. The only instance of that I'm aware of was the playtest version of Warforged and it wasn't well-received.
As I mentioned it scales as one levels, in most cases, most people max out their main spell casting stat very fast, killing a scaling affect. If there was a simpler, better way, I would have used it...in theory heh.
Spells aren't supposed to scale perfectly. The natural tapering of effectiveness is a deliberate design choice. If Mage Armor could trivially replace rare plate mail, that would noticeably throw off party balance and make magic users that much better than everyone else.
If Mage Armor were to scale, it should be based on spell level. (e.g. +1 AC for every 2 spell levels. If cast with a 9th level spell slot, it would provide AC 18 + Dex for 8 hours, which isn't a great use of a 9th level slot, but it's an option.)
I agree, sort of, with that scaling comment. But...the fact is many spells do scale...
Rare Plate Mail, I suppose your mean rare magical Plate? I am not following how a mage, who would not use armor would affect party balance by not choosing to use Plate? Even now all casters can already get their AC to 20 pretty easy with armor, armor feats and multiclassing. One of my current Sorcerer builds has 20 AC right now, without using Shield... I think even my Hex Blade had 19 or 20 AC while using dual wielding feat. I have not played this yet, but if I ever get the chance to be a player again, I have 2 levels of Warrior/Forge Cleric/War Magic build that will have ridiculous AC in the end, I think when I pop up Shield on this build I will have 30 AC.
Just comment on your last example, I mentioned in my post that I avoided doing what you mentioned, as I wanted to keep it simple and not have to make in spell scaling. If I truly did it the way I wanted too, I would have seperate spells, such as a minor shielding, shielding, major shielding and maybe a arch shielding. These would simply add to your base AC, once again, nothing to do with dexterity. For sake of friends who will use this, as I mentioned above, I wanted to keep it simple, so that is why I went the route I did.
Anyhoo, I did this after decades of seething on mage shielding mechanics. If anyone else likes it they can use it, if their DM will allow it that is.
It’s not so much that mage armor uses dexterity. Armor Class as a whole uses Dexterity. That represents a person’s ability to “get out of the way.” What Mage Armor does is put up a force field that augments a person’s AC “as if they were wearing armor.” So a Wizard’s normal AC of 10 + Dex mod gains the benefit of the force field and becomes 13 +Dex.
The shield spell works like a regular shield by adding a bonus to AC (instead of a calculation.)
Your spell of 14+PB gives a 1st level Wiz an AC of 16. That’s way too much of a boost, and the increased AC without required additional magical energy (higher spell slot) also seems inappropriate. The only spells that automatically scale with the caster are Cantrips.
I could agree with Memnosyne in having a 1st-level version that grants an AC of 12+Dex, and then adds +1 for every 2 spell levels when upcast. That would generate an AC of 13+Dex for a 3rd-level spell, all the way up to 16+Dex for a 9th-level slot.
But I honestly think you would do better basing your spell off of shield of faith, shorter duration, Concentration required (to maintain your force field), and then bumping an additional +1 for every 2spell levels (+3 for a 3rd-level slot, up to +6 for a 9th-level slot). Maybe even extend it to 1 hour without concentration, but under the stipulation that it does not stack with Armor.
It’s not so much that mage armor uses dexterity. Armor Class as a whole uses Dexterity. That represents a person’s ability to “get out of the way.” What Mage Armor does is put up a force field that augments a person’s AC “as if they were wearing armor.” So a Wizard’s normal AC of 10 + Dex mod gains the benefit of the force field and becomes 13 +Dex.
Once again, this is why I did not like the spell. The way they designed this to work requires the caster to roleplay, or the DM to dictate that they move. My version does not require the caster to move, which goes along with the idea that the full AC buff should be the barrier.
As per one of the originals "It negates magic missile attacks, and provides AC 2 against thrown attacks (such as javelins, axes, darts, etc.), AC 3 against projectile attacks (such as arrows, sling stones, crossbow bolts, etc.), and AC 4 against all other forms of attack. The shield also grants a +1 saving throw bonus." It was level 1 and lasted for 5 rounds...and it was a basic spell...so it was very useful. But this was when armor was more restricting for Wizards too, and I am so glad this was fixed, as we always house-ruled that wizards could wear armor, if time as taken to train in it etc.
The shield spell works like a regular shield by adding a bonus to AC (instead of a calculation.) - yes, but it is a magical barrier that the caster manifests to protect themself...once again it is not a summoned object that "should" required them to move or physically block.
I could agree with Memnosyne in having a 1st-level version that grants an AC of 12+Dex, and then adds +1 for every 2 spell levels when upcast. That would generate an AC of 13+Dex for a 3rd-level spell, all the way up to 16+Dex for a 9th-level slot. I have explained my reasoning for this a couple times above heh. Time...............and effort lol!
But I honestly think you would do better basing your spell off of shield of faith, shorter duration, Concentration required (to maintain your force field), and then bumping an additional +1 for every 2spell levels (+3 for a 3rd-level slot, up to +6 for a 9th-level slot). Maybe even extend it to 1 hour without concentration, but under the stipulation that it does not stack with Armor. I would never do this as a concentration spell, it would be a longer term spell. A concentration spell that only adds AC is a waste of concentration imo. But, as I mentioned a few times already, if or when I get around to monkeying with this again, I will make a leveled system mimicking the earlier versions...this was super quick build for a force shielding spell that scales and functions like a force shield.
It’s not so much that mage armor uses dexterity. Armor Class as a whole uses Dexterity. That represents a person’s ability to “get out of the way.” What Mage Armor does is put up a force field that augments a person’s AC “as if they were wearing armor.” So a Wizard’s normal AC of 10 + Dex mod gains the benefit of the force field and becomes 13 +Dex.
Once again, this is why I did not like the spell. The way they designed this to work requires the caster to roleplay, or the DM to dictate that they move. My version does not require the caster to move, which goes along with the idea that the full AC buff should be the barrier.
As per one of the originals "It negates magic missile attacks, and provides AC 2 against thrown attacks (such as javelins, axes, darts, etc.), AC 3 against projectile attacks (such as arrows, sling stones, crossbow bolts, etc.), and AC 4 against all other forms of attack. The shield also grants a +1 saving throw bonus." It was level 1 and lasted for 5 rounds...and it was a basic spell...so it was very useful. But this was when armor was more restricting for Wizards too, and I am so glad this was fixed, as we always house-ruled that wizards could wear armor, if time as taken to train in it etc.
The shield spell works like a regular shield by adding a bonus to AC (instead of a calculation.) - yes, but it is a magical barrier that the caster manifests to protect themself...once again it is not a summoned object that "should" required them to move or physically block.
I could agree with Memnosyne in having a 1st-level version that grants an AC of 12+Dex, and then adds +1 for every 2 spell levels when upcast. That would generate an AC of 13+Dex for a 3rd-level spell, all the way up to 16+Dex for a 9th-level slot. I have explained my reasoning for this a couple times above heh. Time...............and effort lol!
But I honestly think you would do better basing your spell off of shield of faith, shorter duration, Concentration required (to maintain your force field), and then bumping an additional +1 for every 2spell levels (+3 for a 3rd-level slot, up to +6 for a 9th-level slot). Maybe even extend it to 1 hour without concentration, but under the stipulation that it does not stack with Armor. I would never do this as a concentration spell, it would be a longer term spell. A concentration spell that only adds AC is a waste of concentration imo. But, as I mentioned a few times already, if or when I get around to monkeying with this again, I will make a leveled system mimicking the earlier versions...this was super quick build for a force shielding spell that scales and functions like a force shield.
The spellcaster is not required to move. They stay in the same space. "Move" is a specific rules-based keyword, if you meant something else. But, just reiterating it: You are not required to MOVE to use your AC. Nothing about the game rules require this in any way. Even inanimate objects incapable of moving have an AC.
As for the spell, it is just absolutely broken in power levels. It makes armor completely obsolete. It makes armor proficiency completely obsolete. It gives a high level character the equivalent of magical +2 mithril full plate that they don't need proficiency with. That's silly. Absolutely bonkers broken OP.
IF... if I was going to accept the premise that a target's proficiency bonus somehow makes the spell stronger, even if cast by someone else... which I reject entirely. But, If I accept that is how anything should ever be designed, then to balance this you're going to want to drop that base number. 14+ is just ludicrous. Maybe 10+. That's make it grant 12AC to characters up to 4th level. Characters 5th through 8th AC of 13. 9th thru 12th they have AC 14, and characters 13th thru 16th at AC15 with 17+ at AC 16.
That's decent protect that has no reliance, whatsoever, on the targets stats, doesn't make armor redundant, doesn't even make Mage Armor useless. All it does is provide a super wonky means of achieving a low level magical protective spell (that lasts for 8 hours).
If you don't care about game balance whatsoever? Nor care about how you're going to explain how the magic one person casts somehow gets dramatically more powerful when cast on a higher level target... sure, great spell.
Edit: Oh, btw, the spell it sounds like you want to design already exists and is called Barkskin.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A missed attack is a mix of your opponent just plain missing, dodging, and armor.
Of course any attack roll misses on a 1. AC doesn't matter. With a low enough to-hit modifier, you could also miss on a 2, even against an opponent standing still and not trying to dodge. Let's assume a creature with a minimum Dex score of 1 (-5 modifier) is so bad at dodging they might as well not even try. Unarmored (base 10; total AC 5), a die roll of 2 would miss if they have +2 or less to-hit modifier. This is pretty rare, so other than natural 1s, most misses are not simple flubs.
Next is dodging. If the attack roll is less than 10 + your Dex mod, you dodged and the attack never impacted on you. Your armor doesn't matter. The attack would have missed whether you were wearing armor or not.
Last is armor. If the attack roll is between 10 + Dex and your AC, then the attack actually hit you, but your armor or shield deflected it and it does no damage (or effects on hits). Mage armor is just like other armor in this respect. It will absorb some blows, but you can't expect it to be effective if you just stand there and tank the hits. Then your AC would be equivalent to that of a -5 Dex character or worse. It would be 8 total. The mage armor would still absorb attack rolls from 5 - 7 that would have otherwise hit you if unarmored. But 8+ would penetrate its defenses. It's magic, but it's only 1st level, and isn't a set-it-and-forget-it defense.
Medium armor still lets you use your Dexterity, but it restricts you somewhat. So even if you have a +4 Dex, you cannot dodge attacks any better than a +2 Dex character can. It compensates by doing better at the absorption part of AC.
Heavy armor is the same concept, but it impedes Dex so much that it really doesn't matter what your Dex mod is. You are still dodging some of the time. A more realistic Plate Armor would probably be like 19 + Dex (max -1). And since most players wouldn't create a character with a Dex mod below -1, that's just always 18. But an attack roll of 8 or less is still a miss because you dodged, not because your armor absorbed it. Attack rolls of 9 - 17 hit your armor harmlessly.
If you want, you could have a spell that's more like heavy armor, with a fixed AC. As Ravnodaus said, Barkskin is such a spell, equivalent to Chain Mail. If you wanted to homebrew a spell that's equivalent to Plate Armor, then it should probably be a higher level than Barkskin's level 2. And I agree, if you want it to scale with you as you level up, just giving it upcast options is probably the best way. As you level up, you will want a higher AC, but 1st level spells become relatively cheaper at higher levels. At the highest levels they're practically free. You're rarely going to run out. 20 AC for a wizard should cost something.
Suggestion for the name: it sounds too similar to Shield to me. I'm thinking "Magic Shell", if only because that's humorous because it's the name of a brand of chocolate ice cream topping that hardens when it cools.
Suggestion for the name: it sounds too similar to Shield to me. I'm thinking "Magic Shell", if only because that's humorous because it's the name of a brand of chocolate ice cream topping that hardens when it cools.
Nice comprehensive explanation of Armor Class above. I like using "Shell" in the name too, since for example Tortles have a shell and an AC of 17 because of it. (Also loved that Magic Shell stuff as a kid ;) )
As for the spell, it is just absolutely broken in power levels. It makes armor completely obsolete. It makes armor proficiency completely obsolete. It gives a high level character the equivalent of magical +2 mithril full plate that they don't need proficiency with. That's silly. Absolutely bonkers broken OP. This a little harsh. If I go into all my caster builds, mage armor will immediately give 16 AC...and if dex is maxed (my casters tend to have good dex, not for that reason though). Later it will give 18 ac...wow 2 less than my spell, which 18+ ac arrives later in levels...SO, SO, SO OP! Furthermore, if you think 18-20 ac is OP at end game...what are you fighting Knolls still? Two levels of Fighter and 18 levels of Wizard is one of my fav builds; 20+ AC arrives as soon as the character can afford plate...and even before that they will have at least 18-19 AC. Armor prof obsolete...what? This is for mages, who do not wear armor in the 1st place, and I explained many times above, a quicky without having to make more complicated spell(s)...which I may do way later down the road.
If you don't care about game balance whatsoever? Nor care about how you're going to explain how the magic one person casts somehow gets dramatically more powerful when cast on a higher level target... sure, great spell. Nah...been only been roleplaying games and mainly a DM/GM for 30+ years...nah...balance means nothing to me, you judgment is sound and 100% correct! But target is supposed to be self, that will be corrected, error from using Mage Armor as the base.
Edit: Oh, btw, the spell it sounds like you want to design already exists and is called Barkskin. Oh dear...I am aware of the spell...proves my point exactly again. Barkskin is magical, does not require a link to dexterity to function as armor. Instead of turning skin to bark, I have just surrounded the character in a force barrier. I am still against making it concentration though...for now...
A missed attack is a mix of your opponent just plain missing, dodging, and armor.
Of course any attack roll misses on a 1. AC doesn't matter. With a low enough to-hit modifier, you could also miss on a 2, even against an opponent standing still and not trying to dodge. Let's assume a creature with a minimum Dex score of 1 (-5 modifier) is so bad at dodging they might as well not even try. Unarmored (base 10; total AC 5), a die roll of 2 would miss if they have +2 or less to-hit modifier. This is pretty rare, so other than natural 1s, most misses are not simple flubs.
Next is dodging. If the attack roll is less than 10 + your Dex mod, you dodged and the attack never impacted on you. Your armor doesn't matter. The attack would have missed whether you were wearing armor or not.
Last is armor. If the attack roll is between 10 + Dex and your AC, then the attack actually hit you, but your armor or shield deflected it and it does no damage (or effects on hits). Mage armor is just like other armor in this respect. It will absorb some blows, but you can't expect it to be effective if you just stand there and tank the hits. Then your AC would be equivalent to that of a -5 Dex character or worse. It would be 8 total. The mage armor would still absorb attack rolls from 5 - 7 that would have otherwise hit you if unarmored. But 8+ would penetrate its defenses. It's magic, but it's only 1st level, and isn't a set-it-and-forget-it defense.
Medium armor still lets you use your Dexterity, but it restricts you somewhat. So even if you have a +4 Dex, you cannot dodge attacks any better than a +2 Dex character can. It compensates by doing better at the absorption part of AC.
Heavy armor is the same concept, but it impedes Dex so much that it really doesn't matter what your Dex mod is. You are still dodging some of the time. A more realistic Plate Armor would probably be like 19 + Dex (max -1). And since most players wouldn't create a character with a Dex mod below -1, that's just always 18. But an attack roll of 8 or less is still a miss because you dodged, not because your armor absorbed it. Attack rolls of 9 - 17 hit your armor harmlessly.
If you want, you could have a spell that's more like heavy armor, with a fixed AC. As Ravnodaus said, Barkskin is such a spell, equivalent to Chain Mail. If you wanted to homebrew a spell that's equivalent to Plate Armor, then it should probably be a higher level than Barkskin's level 2. And I agree, if you want it to scale with you as you level up, just giving it upcast options is probably the best way. As you level up, you will want a higher AC, but 1st level spells become relatively cheaper at higher levels. At the highest levels they're practically free. You're rarely going to run out. 20 AC for a wizard should cost something.
Nice post.
I really do not want to sound like arrogant D*&k here, so I say this with the best intention, I understand and know the way 5e mechanics work. I am not a 100% perfect expert, but I understand enough. I have also DM/GM other roleplaying games, and 100% created my own worlds when I was kid for my friends (mainly Marvel's game). I like to be creative and add things to games. I think most people may have raged at the sight of this spell, dropping their concentration spell and skimming through my posts...skipping a lot...heh! I am planning on making shielding spells closer to some of the originals, and with some 5e flare at some point...
Suggestion for the name: it sounds too similar to Shield to me. I'm thinking "Magic Shell", if only because that's humorous because it's the name of a brand of chocolate ice cream topping that hardens when it cools.
Nice comprehensive explanation of Armor Class above. I like using "Shell" in the name too, since for example Tortles have a shell and an AC of 17 because of it. (Also loved that Magic Shell stuff as a kid ;) )
Maybe? It is really Mage Shielding...so I mean that is the basics of the name. Problem is the reaction based Shield already exists too...so ya, I see the point. I will look up some arcane words from other books/games, maybe there is a cooler name out there for it.
Riffing off of the "Shell" theme, you could probably make some people happy by taking this in a slightly different direction.
For example, if "Mage Shell" created magical Cover, rather than Armor, then it could boost AC without directly stepping on the toes of other existing spells.
Half Cover: +2 to AC and DEX Saving Throws Three-Quarter Cover: +5 AC and DEX Saving Throws
The spell could provide Half Cover for 1 minute (Concentration), with the option of using a reaction to trigger Total Cover against an attack or spell effect, and ending the spell.
This would stack with spells like Mage Armor, and overlap with other forms of cover, like low walls.
Riffing off of the "Shell" theme, you could probably make some people happy by taking this in a slightly different direction.
For example, if "Mage Shell" created magical Cover, rather than Armor, then it could boost AC without directly stepping on the toes of other existing spells.
Half Cover: +2 to AC and DEX Saving Throws Three-Quarter Cover: +5 AC and DEX Saving Throws
The spell could provide Half Cover for 1 minute (Concentration), with the option of using a reaction to trigger Total Cover against an attack or spell effect, and ending the spell.
This would stack with spells like Mage Armor, and overlap with other forms of cover, like low walls.
I have to say, I've thought a number of times of suggesting the wizard cast Stand Behind Paladin & Fighter (or Stand Behind Convenient Brick Wall if possible), or that they could use Mold Earth to make a 5-ft hole with a 5-ft high bunker in front of it to stand in. Heck, there's Tiny Hut or Resilient Sphere if you want to avoid getting hit by attacks, though those interfere with doing the actual wizard thing of casting spells at the enemy.
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Riffing off of the "Shell" theme, you could probably make some people happy by taking this in a slightly different direction.
For example, if "Mage Shell" created magical Cover, rather than Armor, then it could boost AC without directly stepping on the toes of other existing spells.
Half Cover: +2 to AC and DEX Saving Throws Three-Quarter Cover: +5 AC and DEX Saving Throws
The spell could provide Half Cover for 1 minute (Concentration), with the option of using a reaction to trigger Total Cover against an attack or spell effect, and ending the spell.
This would stack with spells like Mage Armor, and overlap with other forms of cover, like low walls.
Cool, I really like the triggering function. There is something there for a barrier spell forsure. Your ideas is similar to original AD&D shielding imo...it used to add AC to different things, in dif amounts. Cover as a concept is cool, but in my spell's case, it surrounds the whole body, so it is really not cover, as the enemies can still see you. Worth thinking about...
Riffing off of the "Shell" theme, you could probably make some people happy by taking this in a slightly different direction.
For example, if "Mage Shell" created magical Cover, rather than Armor, then it could boost AC without directly stepping on the toes of other existing spells.
Half Cover: +2 to AC and DEX Saving Throws Three-Quarter Cover: +5 AC and DEX Saving Throws
The spell could provide Half Cover for 1 minute (Concentration), with the option of using a reaction to trigger Total Cover against an attack or spell effect, and ending the spell.
This would stack with spells like Mage Armor, and overlap with other forms of cover, like low walls.
Cool, I really like the triggering function. There is something there for a barrier spell forsure. Your ideas is similar to original AD&D shielding imo...it used to add AC to different things, in dif amounts. Cover as a concept is cool, but in my spell's case, it surrounds the whole body, so it is really not cover, as the enemies can still see you. Worth thinking about...
"Cover" and "Obscurity" are two separate mechanics. What I'm proposing is effectively a personal lesserWall of Force. Everyone can still see you, but there is a semi-permeable barrier/field that deflects attacks. Whether it's glass, force, ice, or something else, it still counts as cover.
Edit: The rules on Cover are a bit confusing as written, but there is [SageAdvice] that helps clear it up.
Edit2: This could also be interpreted to provide cover for allies who position themselves correctly, relative to the caster. (Or it could simply redirect the flow of projectiles/attack to continue on their normal path beyond the caster, which wouldn't benefit anyone else.)
As for the spell, it is just absolutely broken in power levels. It makes armor completely obsolete. It makes armor proficiency completely obsolete. It gives a high level character the equivalent of magical +2 mithril full plate that they don't need proficiency with. That's silly. Absolutely bonkers broken OP. This a little harsh. If I go into all my caster builds, mage armor will immediately give 16 AC...and if dex is maxed (my casters tend to have good dex, not for that reason though). Later it will give 18 ac...wow 2 less than my spell, which 18+ ac arrives later in levels...SO, SO, SO OP! Furthermore, if you think 18-20 ac is OP at end game...what are you fighting Knolls still? Two levels of Fighter and 18 levels of Wizard is one of my fav builds; 20+ AC arrives as soon as the character can afford plate...and even before that they will have at least 18-19 AC. Armor prof obsolete...what? This is for mages, who do not wear armor in the 1st place, and I explained many times above, a quicky without having to make more complicated spell(s)...which I may do way later down the road.
So, you're saying it provides better protect, regardless if you have lower dexterity, at no additional cost? So. It's better. Requires less stats. And same level, duration. And, you cannot see that as overpowered? Let's look at an example to highlight some differences.
L17 character with 10 Dex. Magic Shell is giving it AC20. Mage Armor would give it AC 13. That is 7 higher than mage armor.
Ok ok. So that's highest disparity example. Lets look at something more normal. Say, 9th level characters. Dex 14 on a caster is reasonable. Mage armor is giving them an ac of 15. Magic Shell? 18 AC. Heck, they could even have a 10 dex and still have an 18 AC. They're effectively in invisible weightless full plate as a caster.
I mean. really?
How can you not see that as entirely broken??
Lets compare by levels. With 10 Str and Dex...
Level 1: starts at AC 16
Level 5: increased to AC 17
Levels 9: increased to AC 18
Level 13: increased to AC 19
Level 17: increased to AC 20
How else can we get numbers like these? It is modelled, theoretically, after mage armor...so lets try that?
Level 1: Needs a 16 dex. to get AC 16.
Level 5: Needs a 18 dex to get AC 17.
Level 9: Needs a 20 dex to get AC 18.
Level 13: Needs a (higher than it can get) dex to get AC 19.
Level 17: Needs a (again, very much higher than it gets) dex to get AC 20.
Hmm, seems like we spotted a problem! The spell you're modelling after requires more stats than many characters have to JUST break even with it at its lowest levels but quickly cannot keep up and has NO CHANCE to even match it with even maxed out stats. It is superior in the hands of a 13th+ level spellcaster to mage armor in any and all conceivable scenarios, making that spell entirely and completely redundant and obsolete. And spellcaster choosing to cast mage armor on themselves instead of Magic Shell would be actually mentally disabled for that decision.
Do you see the issue yet? No?
Then lets discuss mundane means of achieving these ACs. Heavy armor. All of which requires a proficiency. Not just light armor, or medium armor, but heavy armor. The best, most defensive armor in existence. How does the best option in the game compare to your homebrew spell...
Level 1, requires Chain Mail (75gp cost) and a Str of 13 to wear, gives disadvantage on stealth checks, and weighs 55lbs... to get AC 16. You spell invalidates this armor and everything less than this. because it doesn't require Str, or need be weighing you down, or cause disadvantage on stealth, nor require a proficiency at all. No gp cost even. Just is AC16, no penalty.
But it gets worse as we go!
Level 5, Splint (200gp cost) and a Str of 15 to wear, gives dis on stealth, 60lbs. All to get 17 AC. Your spell now invalidates this and all lesser options.
At level 9 though? Full plate armor. The king of armor. Req 15 str, cost 1,500 gp. 65 lbs, dis on stealth. <--- the best armor there is. To get AC 18. You spell invalidated THIS armor and all lesser options. All lesser options = ALL options. ALL mundane armor is now worse than this spell effect.
This level 1 spell effect.
That doesn't require concentration.
And lasts 8 hours.
BUT lets keep going because your spell keeps getting even more powerful that THIS.
Level 13. You now need magical armor to keep up. Mundane options aren't going to cut it. +1 full plate gets you AC 19. Same penalties and costs as before, but now its magical so you need your DM to grant this thing. Not even available on the open market. Better beg that DM for a set.. or simply cast a 1st level spell.
Level 17. Now you need a +2 fullplate armor to keep up. That +1 armor is chump shit. +2 or get out. Hey. Warriors. Can get your DM to grant you the boon of +2 full plate?? Just cast a FIRST LEVEL spell on yourself it'll last all day.
If you don't care about game balance whatsoever? Nor care about how you're going to explain how the magic one person casts somehow gets dramatically more powerful when cast on a higher level target... sure, great spell. Nah...been only been roleplaying games and mainly a DM/GM for 30+ years...nah...balance means nothing to me, you judgment is sound and 100% correct! But target is supposed to be self, that will be corrected, error from using Mage Armor as the base.
This is the first time you've said anything, at all, the reduces its effective power vs mage armor. It is still OP but target: Self at least partially quarantines its impact to just the broken OP spellcaster who has it.
Edit: Oh, btw, the spell it sounds like you want to design already exists and is called Barkskin. Oh dear...I am aware of the spell...proves my point exactly again. Barkskin is magical, does not require a link to dexterity to function as armor. Instead of turning skin to bark, I have just surrounded the character in a force barrier. I am still against making it concentration though...for now...
I still don't understand how you can see a 2nd level spell, that doesn't last as long, and requires concentration, that provides less AC... and still come away with the conclusion your version that gives more AC, lasts longer, and doesn't require concentration... isn't entirely and ludicrously broken in every conceivable way.
At high levels it is just better than any other existing option. Better than full plate. Better than mage armor and a 20 dex. Better than barkskin. Nothing is even close.
I don't know how to illustrate how far this is from normal power levels. If after reading this you still don't understand you just aren't going to.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I still don't understand how you can see a 2nd level spell, that doesn't last as long, and requires concentration, that provides less AC... and still come away with the conclusion your version that gives more AC, lasts longer, and doesn't require concentration... isn't entirely and ludicrously broken in every conceivable way.
At high levels it is just better than any other existing option. Better than full plate. Better than mage armor and a 20 dex. Better than barkskin. Nothing is even close.
I don't know how to illustrate how far this is from normal power levels. If after reading this you still don't understand you just aren't going to.
That was lengthy. I think you and I will never see things the same. I understand what you have typed, I just do not agree it is as OP as you want it to be. The only thing is the duration, but I just copied Mage Armor spell for that. Mage Armor last for 8 hrs and is not concentration...on a friend's multiclass rogue build, Mage Armor is maxed at 18ac near the start of the game (btw...prob important to note, I (we) roll stats, none of this point buy stuff...never ever used those systems outside of video games where you are forced too). You see 19+ AC as OP endish game, and I guess that is where we will 100% differ, and that is that. Most games do not make it that far, though at higher levels it is supposed to be better than Mage Armor, tis the point.
I would put money on the Wizard with this at end game still being of the verge of death like normal...another person I know learnt this the hard way on the perceived OP Bladesinger with crazy AC...that got dropped, or very, very close to it end game...often. I do not want to suppose too much, in your games, if after level 16+ your armor wearing characters are not wearing magical gear, or at least starting to get it during those 16+ levels, that just sucks. I also think, from how you come across, we 100% play differently or make campaigns differently. I (we) do not beg nor ask the DM for magical gear, it is known that it will be found somewhere super cool and hard to get...or looted off a powerful enemy etc. etc. etc. Shops in our worlds have basic magical items and sometimes +1 items can be there, anything better is usually earned or found...but the main point is by the time this shielding has 19--20 AC, I would "expect" others to be quite well adorned.
I see you are bent upon making me understand exactly what we already know. I have mentioned above, many times, this was a really quick way to make a scaling Mage Shielding spell that works. Until I can get around to it, maybe next year at this rate, to work on a proper shielding spell like the some of the originals, this will work, and scale for end game...if it ever gets that far.
Hey all,
Just sharing this in case anyone wants to use it or was thinking the samething as I.
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1050501-mage-shielding
I was never happy with Mage Armor, mainly because it is basically magical shielding (looking like armor), and for some strange reason it uses your dexterity modifier. I can somewhat see their reasoning, linking it to the non-magical armor system, but it really makes no sense to me...as it is magical.
This spell has a base 14 AC with uses your proficiency modifier. Due to this, it now scales. Now it is worth using all the way up to level 20 if you want. At level 20 (or when your proficiency modifier gets to +6) it will have 20 AC, but it starts a little weaker based upon your modifier. Basically as a player levels up and their proficiency modifier increases, so does the AC from the magic. My reasoning for using proficiency was to get it to scale, and it was the only easy way I could get the spell to look like it is increasing in power as your spell casting gets better etc. I did not want to have to make like 5 separate spells, like minor all the way to major shielding or make a level scaling systems within the spell, I wanted to keep it simple etc.
Enjoy if you want!
It uses your DEX because every AC calculation is supposed to include DEX unless your mobility is hindered (like with medium or heavy armor.) Mage Armor has traditionally been equivalent to wearing scale armor, minus the movement/weight/spellcasting penalties. In 5e it's basically +1 light armor.
I'm curious why you didn't use the caster's spellcasting ability like most other spells. Proficiency bonus is pretty unorthodox for both spell potency and AC. The only instance of that I'm aware of was the playtest version of Warforged and it wasn't well-received.
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Spells aren't supposed to scale perfectly. The natural tapering of effectiveness is a deliberate design choice. If Mage Armor could trivially replace rare plate mail, that would noticeably throw off party balance and make magic users that much better than everyone else.
If Mage Armor were to scale, it should be based on spell level. (e.g. +1 AC for every 2 spell levels. If cast with a 9th level spell slot, it would provide AC 18 + Dex for 8 hours, which isn't a great use of a 9th level slot, but it's an option.)
I agree, sort of, with that scaling comment. But...the fact is many spells do scale...
Rare Plate Mail, I suppose your mean rare magical Plate? I am not following how a mage, who would not use armor would affect party balance by not choosing to use Plate? Even now all casters can already get their AC to 20 pretty easy with armor, armor feats and multiclassing. One of my current Sorcerer builds has 20 AC right now, without using Shield... I think even my Hex Blade had 19 or 20 AC while using dual wielding feat. I have not played this yet, but if I ever get the chance to be a player again, I have 2 levels of Warrior/Forge Cleric/War Magic build that will have ridiculous AC in the end, I think when I pop up Shield on this build I will have 30 AC.
Just comment on your last example, I mentioned in my post that I avoided doing what you mentioned, as I wanted to keep it simple and not have to make in spell scaling. If I truly did it the way I wanted too, I would have seperate spells, such as a minor shielding, shielding, major shielding and maybe a arch shielding. These would simply add to your base AC, once again, nothing to do with dexterity. For sake of friends who will use this, as I mentioned above, I wanted to keep it simple, so that is why I went the route I did.
Anyhoo, I did this after decades of seething on mage shielding mechanics. If anyone else likes it they can use it, if their DM will allow it that is.
It’s not so much that mage armor uses dexterity. Armor Class as a whole uses Dexterity. That represents a person’s ability to “get out of the way.” What Mage Armor does is put up a force field that augments a person’s AC “as if they were wearing armor.” So a Wizard’s normal AC of 10 + Dex mod gains the benefit of the force field and becomes 13 +Dex.
The shield spell works like a regular shield by adding a bonus to AC (instead of a calculation.)
Your spell of 14+PB gives a 1st level Wiz an AC of 16. That’s way too much of a boost, and the increased AC without required additional magical energy (higher spell slot) also seems inappropriate. The only spells that automatically scale with the caster are Cantrips.
I could agree with Memnosyne in having a 1st-level version that grants an AC of 12+Dex, and then adds +1 for every 2 spell levels when upcast. That would generate an AC of 13+Dex for a 3rd-level spell, all the way up to 16+Dex for a 9th-level slot.
But I honestly think you would do better basing your spell off of shield of faith, shorter duration, Concentration required (to maintain your force field), and then bumping an additional +1 for every 2spell levels (+3 for a 3rd-level slot, up to +6 for a 9th-level slot). Maybe even extend it to 1 hour without concentration, but under the stipulation that it does not stack with Armor.
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The spellcaster is not required to move. They stay in the same space. "Move" is a specific rules-based keyword, if you meant something else. But, just reiterating it: You are not required to MOVE to use your AC. Nothing about the game rules require this in any way. Even inanimate objects incapable of moving have an AC.
As for the spell, it is just absolutely broken in power levels. It makes armor completely obsolete. It makes armor proficiency completely obsolete. It gives a high level character the equivalent of magical +2 mithril full plate that they don't need proficiency with. That's silly. Absolutely bonkers broken OP.
IF... if I was going to accept the premise that a target's proficiency bonus somehow makes the spell stronger, even if cast by someone else... which I reject entirely. But, If I accept that is how anything should ever be designed, then to balance this you're going to want to drop that base number. 14+ is just ludicrous. Maybe 10+. That's make it grant 12AC to characters up to 4th level. Characters 5th through 8th AC of 13. 9th thru 12th they have AC 14, and characters 13th thru 16th at AC15 with 17+ at AC 16.
That's decent protect that has no reliance, whatsoever, on the targets stats, doesn't make armor redundant, doesn't even make Mage Armor useless. All it does is provide a super wonky means of achieving a low level magical protective spell (that lasts for 8 hours).
If you don't care about game balance whatsoever? Nor care about how you're going to explain how the magic one person casts somehow gets dramatically more powerful when cast on a higher level target... sure, great spell.
Edit: Oh, btw, the spell it sounds like you want to design already exists and is called Barkskin.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A missed attack is a mix of your opponent just plain missing, dodging, and armor.
Of course any attack roll misses on a 1. AC doesn't matter. With a low enough to-hit modifier, you could also miss on a 2, even against an opponent standing still and not trying to dodge. Let's assume a creature with a minimum Dex score of 1 (-5 modifier) is so bad at dodging they might as well not even try. Unarmored (base 10; total AC 5), a die roll of 2 would miss if they have +2 or less to-hit modifier. This is pretty rare, so other than natural 1s, most misses are not simple flubs.
Next is dodging. If the attack roll is less than 10 + your Dex mod, you dodged and the attack never impacted on you. Your armor doesn't matter. The attack would have missed whether you were wearing armor or not.
Last is armor. If the attack roll is between 10 + Dex and your AC, then the attack actually hit you, but your armor or shield deflected it and it does no damage (or effects on hits). Mage armor is just like other armor in this respect. It will absorb some blows, but you can't expect it to be effective if you just stand there and tank the hits. Then your AC would be equivalent to that of a -5 Dex character or worse. It would be 8 total. The mage armor would still absorb attack rolls from 5 - 7 that would have otherwise hit you if unarmored. But 8+ would penetrate its defenses. It's magic, but it's only 1st level, and isn't a set-it-and-forget-it defense.
Medium armor still lets you use your Dexterity, but it restricts you somewhat. So even if you have a +4 Dex, you cannot dodge attacks any better than a +2 Dex character can. It compensates by doing better at the absorption part of AC.
Heavy armor is the same concept, but it impedes Dex so much that it really doesn't matter what your Dex mod is. You are still dodging some of the time. A more realistic Plate Armor would probably be like 19 + Dex (max -1). And since most players wouldn't create a character with a Dex mod below -1, that's just always 18. But an attack roll of 8 or less is still a miss because you dodged, not because your armor absorbed it. Attack rolls of 9 - 17 hit your armor harmlessly.
If you want, you could have a spell that's more like heavy armor, with a fixed AC. As Ravnodaus said, Barkskin is such a spell, equivalent to Chain Mail. If you wanted to homebrew a spell that's equivalent to Plate Armor, then it should probably be a higher level than Barkskin's level 2. And I agree, if you want it to scale with you as you level up, just giving it upcast options is probably the best way. As you level up, you will want a higher AC, but 1st level spells become relatively cheaper at higher levels. At the highest levels they're practically free. You're rarely going to run out. 20 AC for a wizard should cost something.
Suggestion for the name: it sounds too similar to Shield to me. I'm thinking "Magic Shell", if only because that's humorous because it's the name of a brand of chocolate ice cream topping that hardens when it cools.
Nice comprehensive explanation of Armor Class above. I like using "Shell" in the name too, since for example Tortles have a shell and an AC of 17 because of it. (Also loved that Magic Shell stuff as a kid ;) )
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Nice post.
I really do not want to sound like arrogant D*&k here, so I say this with the best intention, I understand and know the way 5e mechanics work. I am not a 100% perfect expert, but I understand enough. I have also DM/GM other roleplaying games, and 100% created my own worlds when I was kid for my friends (mainly Marvel's game). I like to be creative and add things to games. I think most people may have raged at the sight of this spell, dropping their concentration spell and skimming through my posts...skipping a lot...heh! I am planning on making shielding spells closer to some of the originals, and with some 5e flare at some point...
Maybe? It is really Mage Shielding...so I mean that is the basics of the name. Problem is the reaction based Shield already exists too...so ya, I see the point. I will look up some arcane words from other books/games, maybe there is a cooler name out there for it.
Riffing off of the "Shell" theme, you could probably make some people happy by taking this in a slightly different direction.
For example, if "Mage Shell" created magical Cover, rather than Armor, then it could boost AC without directly stepping on the toes of other existing spells.
Half Cover: +2 to AC and DEX Saving Throws
Three-Quarter Cover: +5 AC and DEX Saving Throws
The spell could provide Half Cover for 1 minute (Concentration), with the option of using a reaction to trigger Total Cover against an attack or spell effect, and ending the spell.
This would stack with spells like Mage Armor, and overlap with other forms of cover, like low walls.
I have to say, I've thought a number of times of suggesting the wizard cast Stand Behind Paladin & Fighter (or Stand Behind Convenient Brick Wall if possible), or that they could use Mold Earth to make a 5-ft hole with a 5-ft high bunker in front of it to stand in. Heck, there's Tiny Hut or Resilient Sphere if you want to avoid getting hit by attacks, though those interfere with doing the actual wizard thing of casting spells at the enemy.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
Cool, I really like the triggering function. There is something there for a barrier spell forsure. Your ideas is similar to original AD&D shielding imo...it used to add AC to different things, in dif amounts. Cover as a concept is cool, but in my spell's case, it surrounds the whole body, so it is really not cover, as the enemies can still see you. Worth thinking about...
"Cover" and "Obscurity" are two separate mechanics. What I'm proposing is effectively a personal lesser Wall of Force. Everyone can still see you, but there is a semi-permeable barrier/field that deflects attacks. Whether it's glass, force, ice, or something else, it still counts as cover.
Edit: The rules on Cover are a bit confusing as written, but there is [SageAdvice] that helps clear it up.
Edit2: This could also be interpreted to provide cover for allies who position themselves correctly, relative to the caster. (Or it could simply redirect the flow of projectiles/attack to continue on their normal path beyond the caster, which wouldn't benefit anyone else.)
So, you're saying it provides better protect, regardless if you have lower dexterity, at no additional cost? So. It's better. Requires less stats. And same level, duration. And, you cannot see that as overpowered? Let's look at an example to highlight some differences.
L17 character with 10 Dex. Magic Shell is giving it AC20. Mage Armor would give it AC 13. That is 7 higher than mage armor.
Ok ok. So that's highest disparity example. Lets look at something more normal. Say, 9th level characters. Dex 14 on a caster is reasonable. Mage armor is giving them an ac of 15. Magic Shell? 18 AC. Heck, they could even have a 10 dex and still have an 18 AC. They're effectively in invisible weightless full plate as a caster.
I mean. really?
How can you not see that as entirely broken??
Lets compare by levels. With 10 Str and Dex...
Level 1: starts at AC 16
Level 5: increased to AC 17
Levels 9: increased to AC 18
Level 13: increased to AC 19
Level 17: increased to AC 20
How else can we get numbers like these? It is modelled, theoretically, after mage armor...so lets try that?
Level 1: Needs a 16 dex. to get AC 16.
Level 5: Needs a 18 dex to get AC 17.
Level 9: Needs a 20 dex to get AC 18.
Level 13: Needs a (higher than it can get) dex to get AC 19.
Level 17: Needs a (again, very much higher than it gets) dex to get AC 20.
Hmm, seems like we spotted a problem! The spell you're modelling after requires more stats than many characters have to JUST break even with it at its lowest levels but quickly cannot keep up and has NO CHANCE to even match it with even maxed out stats. It is superior in the hands of a 13th+ level spellcaster to mage armor in any and all conceivable scenarios, making that spell entirely and completely redundant and obsolete. And spellcaster choosing to cast mage armor on themselves instead of Magic Shell would be actually mentally disabled for that decision.
Do you see the issue yet? No?
Then lets discuss mundane means of achieving these ACs. Heavy armor. All of which requires a proficiency. Not just light armor, or medium armor, but heavy armor. The best, most defensive armor in existence. How does the best option in the game compare to your homebrew spell...
Level 1, requires Chain Mail (75gp cost) and a Str of 13 to wear, gives disadvantage on stealth checks, and weighs 55lbs... to get AC 16. You spell invalidates this armor and everything less than this. because it doesn't require Str, or need be weighing you down, or cause disadvantage on stealth, nor require a proficiency at all. No gp cost even. Just is AC16, no penalty.
But it gets worse as we go!
Level 5, Splint (200gp cost) and a Str of 15 to wear, gives dis on stealth, 60lbs. All to get 17 AC. Your spell now invalidates this and all lesser options.
At level 9 though? Full plate armor. The king of armor. Req 15 str, cost 1,500 gp. 65 lbs, dis on stealth. <--- the best armor there is. To get AC 18. You spell invalidated THIS armor and all lesser options. All lesser options = ALL options. ALL mundane armor is now worse than this spell effect.
This level 1 spell effect.
That doesn't require concentration.
And lasts 8 hours.
BUT lets keep going because your spell keeps getting even more powerful that THIS.
Level 13. You now need magical armor to keep up. Mundane options aren't going to cut it. +1 full plate gets you AC 19. Same penalties and costs as before, but now its magical so you need your DM to grant this thing. Not even available on the open market. Better beg that DM for a set.. or simply cast a 1st level spell.
Level 17. Now you need a +2 fullplate armor to keep up. That +1 armor is chump shit. +2 or get out. Hey. Warriors. Can get your DM to grant you the boon of +2 full plate?? Just cast a FIRST LEVEL spell on yourself it'll last all day.
This is the first time you've said anything, at all, the reduces its effective power vs mage armor. It is still OP but target: Self at least partially quarantines its impact to just the broken OP spellcaster who has it.
I still don't understand how you can see a 2nd level spell, that doesn't last as long, and requires concentration, that provides less AC... and still come away with the conclusion your version that gives more AC, lasts longer, and doesn't require concentration... isn't entirely and ludicrously broken in every conceivable way.
At high levels it is just better than any other existing option. Better than full plate. Better than mage armor and a 20 dex. Better than barkskin. Nothing is even close.
I don't know how to illustrate how far this is from normal power levels. If after reading this you still don't understand you just aren't going to.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
That was lengthy. I think you and I will never see things the same. I understand what you have typed, I just do not agree it is as OP as you want it to be. The only thing is the duration, but I just copied Mage Armor spell for that. Mage Armor last for 8 hrs and is not concentration...on a friend's multiclass rogue build, Mage Armor is maxed at 18ac near the start of the game (btw...prob important to note, I (we) roll stats, none of this point buy stuff...never ever used those systems outside of video games where you are forced too). You see 19+ AC as OP endish game, and I guess that is where we will 100% differ, and that is that. Most games do not make it that far, though at higher levels it is supposed to be better than Mage Armor, tis the point.
I would put money on the Wizard with this at end game still being of the verge of death like normal...another person I know learnt this the hard way on the perceived OP Bladesinger with crazy AC...that got dropped, or very, very close to it end game...often. I do not want to suppose too much, in your games, if after level 16+ your armor wearing characters are not wearing magical gear, or at least starting to get it during those 16+ levels, that just sucks. I also think, from how you come across, we 100% play differently or make campaigns differently. I (we) do not beg nor ask the DM for magical gear, it is known that it will be found somewhere super cool and hard to get...or looted off a powerful enemy etc. etc. etc. Shops in our worlds have basic magical items and sometimes +1 items can be there, anything better is usually earned or found...but the main point is by the time this shielding has 19--20 AC, I would "expect" others to be quite well adorned.
I see you are bent upon making me understand exactly what we already know. I have mentioned above, many times, this was a really quick way to make a scaling Mage Shielding spell that works. Until I can get around to it, maybe next year at this rate, to work on a proper shielding spell like the some of the originals, this will work, and scale for end game...if it ever gets that far.