I think its too high as the default DC, at least by usual convention. Its the same as the disadvantage for me, it may honestly be fine from a mechanical/balance standpoint, but it feels weird that they automatically get a super-DC as soon as they get the feature. I could see adding a route by which a player could boost the DC with a little more investment. Here are a few ideas, although I am not sure any of them are particularly elegant:
1) Allow for the Assassin to gain expertise in their disguise kit or poisoner kit through the Rogue's Expertise feature. As part of Poison Afficianado, have a rider statement that if you have expertise in your poisoner kit, you can double your PB in the DC calculation.
2) Provide examples by which the DM may award a higher DC if certain types of ingredients are harvested to use in making the poison (granted, this sort of thing could use its own chapter in the DMG and might feel a bit bulky as part of an ability)
3) Grant bonuses to the DC based on time spent working on the poison. For example, the DC starts at 8+Int/Wis+PB when you finish a short rest, but if you dont use it you can continue working on it during your next short rest, granting +X bonus to the DC, where the cumulative bonus cannot be greater than your PB. The poison you craft as part of a long rest always starts with the maximum additional +PB to the DC. So you always start the day with one super poison, and depending on the adventuring day can either craft a handful of regular poisons or one or two super poisons, if that makes sense.
4) Make Poison Aficionado a 9th level feature (either switching it with Infiltration Aficionado or just unlocking both simultaneously) and then use the 13th level feature to boost the DC at later levels where the flat DC may not be enough without heavy Int/Wis investment. Since the damage scales with your Sneak Attack dice, it shouldnt be OP getting the poison earlier.
Those are just some ideas. Although, like I said, if you keep it the same I dont think there will necessarily be a balance issue, so do whatever feels right.
I think I like option #1, it solves the problem but requires an extra investment of Expertise which means they aren’t getting it in something else. However, with the expertise counting for any poison they make with the kit, it isn’t just a tax solely for this one feature. Thanks!!
You gain proficiency with the disguise kit and the poisoner’s kit. When you later gain the Expertise feature, you can choose to gain expertise in either of these tools. If you take Expertise in the disguise kit, you can add twice your proficiency bonus to checks you make to create a disguise. If you take Expertise in the poisoner’s kit, you can add your proficiency bonus to the save DC for any poison you create.
Poison Aficionado (FIFY)
13th-level FIFY Assassin feature
When you gain this feature, choose either Intelligence or Wisdom. Whenever you finish a short or long rest you can use a poisoner’s kit to craft a vial of Assassination Poison. When you do, choose contact, ingested, or inhaled; the poison created is both an injury poison, and a poison of the chosen type. The poison remains potent until the end of your next short or long rest. Any creature subject to the poison must make a constitution saving throw (DC 8 + your chosen ability modifier + your proficiency bonus). A creature suffers poison damage equal to one roll of your Sneak Attack dice and is poisoned for one minute on a failed save, or suffers half as much damage and is not poisoned on a success.
Is that good? Is it clear that the PB would be added on top of the standard DC for the Assassination Poison?
Looking it over again, I would make one small change to the language. I think the last line of Bonus Proficiencies should read "If you take Expertise in the poisoner's kit, you gain a bonus to the save DC for any poison you create equal to your proficiency bonus" Its a minor thing, but since it currently reads "you can add your proficiency bonus" it could cause some confusion with Poison Aficionado.
Basically, I could see the following type of statement being made: "I have expertise in my poisoner kit, and that allows me to add my proficiency bonus to my poison save DC. Although, poison aficionado's save DC already adds my proficiency bonus to its DC calculation, so do I add it twice or do those additions not stack with each other?"
Tl;Dr. I think that by changing "add" to "bonus" you can avoid any confusion which may arise when comparing the addition from your expertise to the addition that already occurs in the base DC calculation.
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I had the same concerns about the clarity of the language myself, which is why I asked if it was clear. I like your proposed change, and think it’ll solve the problem nicely. Thanks!
I think its too high as the default DC, at least by usual convention. Its the same as the disadvantage for me, it may honestly be fine from a mechanical/balance standpoint, but it feels weird that they automatically get a super-DC as soon as they get the feature. I could see adding a route by which a player could boost the DC with a little more investment. Here are a few ideas, although I am not sure any of them are particularly elegant:
1) Allow for the Assassin to gain expertise in their disguise kit or poisoner kit through the Rogue's Expertise feature. As part of Poison Afficianado, have a rider statement that if you have expertise in your poisoner kit, you can double your PB in the DC calculation.
2) Provide examples by which the DM may award a higher DC if certain types of ingredients are harvested to use in making the poison (granted, this sort of thing could use its own chapter in the DMG and might feel a bit bulky as part of an ability)
3) Grant bonuses to the DC based on time spent working on the poison. For example, the DC starts at 8+Int/Wis+PB when you finish a short rest, but if you dont use it you can continue working on it during your next short rest, granting +X bonus to the DC, where the cumulative bonus cannot be greater than your PB. The poison you craft as part of a long rest always starts with the maximum additional +PB to the DC. So you always start the day with one super poison, and depending on the adventuring day can either craft a handful of regular poisons or one or two super poisons, if that makes sense.
4) Make Poison Aficionado a 9th level feature (either switching it with Infiltration Aficionado or just unlocking both simultaneously) and then use the 13th level feature to boost the DC at later levels where the flat DC may not be enough without heavy Int/Wis investment. Since the damage scales with your Sneak Attack dice, it shouldnt be OP getting the poison earlier.
Those are just some ideas. Although, like I said, if you keep it the same I dont think there will necessarily be a balance issue, so do whatever feels right.
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I think I like option #1, it solves the problem but requires an extra investment of Expertise which means they aren’t getting it in something else. However, with the expertise counting for any poison they make with the kit, it isn’t just a tax solely for this one feature. Thanks!!
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How about this:
Is that good? Is it clear that the PB would be added on top of the standard DC for the Assassination Poison?
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Yeah, I think thatll work great.
This also allows the assassin to synergize well with the Poisoner feat from TCoE, which is definitely a must-have feat if you want to use your kit
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Looking it over again, I would make one small change to the language. I think the last line of Bonus Proficiencies should read "If you take Expertise in the poisoner's kit, you gain a bonus to the save DC for any poison you create equal to your proficiency bonus" Its a minor thing, but since it currently reads "you can add your proficiency bonus" it could cause some confusion with Poison Aficionado.
Basically, I could see the following type of statement being made:
"I have expertise in my poisoner kit, and that allows me to add my proficiency bonus to my poison save DC. Although, poison aficionado's save DC already adds my proficiency bonus to its DC calculation, so do I add it twice or do those additions not stack with each other?"
Tl;Dr. I think that by changing "add" to "bonus" you can avoid any confusion which may arise when comparing the addition from your expertise to the addition that already occurs in the base DC calculation.
Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
I had the same concerns about the clarity of the language myself, which is why I asked if it was clear. I like your proposed change, and think it’ll solve the problem nicely. Thanks!
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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Content Troubleshooting