Aight, time to see if I can pump out a fighter subclass with ‘bout a day left.

Probably not, but I’ll try.

Time to see if I can finish my mini-supplement for legal battles in D&D! It might not work out though, since I have to design an adventure for tomorrow too.

I have to create an adventure about a casino heist before tomorrow anyways. Since my other thing for that category probably won't work out in time, would the heist theme fit the category since it's technically about violating the law?

I know this is kind of a stretch, but it's still worth asking.

Quote from BoringBard >>

I have to create an adventure about a casino heist before tomorrow anyways. Since my other thing for that category probably won't work out in time, would the heist theme fit the category since it's technically about violating the law?

I know this is kind of a stretch, but it's still worth asking.

Bard. Dude. You're making an adventure about a casino, and you didn't even consider that it would work for the option that both includes adventures and is literally about gambling.

Quote from Quar1on >>

Quote from BoringBard >>

Bard. Dude. You're making an adventure about a casino, and you didn't even consider that it would work for the option that both includes adventures and is literally about gambling.

I guess I failed my intelligence check lol. The new DM option category says it includes Dungeons/Encounters though, so I dunno whether or not an adventure would make sense with the interactive category.

Also, your post made me laugh at myself a bit. Thank you. :)

Quote from BoringBard >>

Quote from Quar1on >>

Quote from BoringBard >>

Bard. Dude. You're making an adventure about a casino, and you didn't even consider that it would work for the option that both includes adventures and is literally about gambling.

I guess I failed my intelligence check lol. The new DM option category says it includes Dungeons/Encounters though, so I dunno whether or not an adventure would make sense with the interactive category.

Also, your post made me laugh at myself a bit. Thank you. :)

The Interactive Option includes institutions such as shops and taverns (which I imagine extends to casinos), and other people have at least put adventure hooks into their submissions. Kaboom has the final say, of course, but it's probably fine. :)

Quote from Quar1on >>

The Interactive Option includes institutions such as shops and taverns (which I imagine extends to casinos), and other people have at least put adventure hooks into their submissions. Kaboom has the final say, of course, but it's probably fine. :)

Thank you Quarion. You're awesome.

I agree with Quar1on's interpretation of the guidelines. The language could probably use some brushing up between this competition and the next, but as a rule of thumb the line I am drawing between similar submission types for the DM & Interactive category falls in place based on the prevalence or focus of combat. More combat -> DM category; More roleplay/exploration -> Interactive.

For your submission in particular, I would say that a heist fits the Interactive Category more closely. In a successful heist, you really shouldnt need to fight anyone (although dealing with a few guards would not be unheard of). I imagine it would involve mostly disarming/avoiding traps, making use of disguises, gathering information, and maybe even solving a complex problem along the way - all things that fit neatly into the social & exploration pillars of the game. If; however, as part of the heist there were not just one or two but several required combats to get the parcel, then it might fall closer to a dungeon-type encounter for the DM category.

Hope this clears things up.

Last-minute entry: an encounter!

Hope you guys like it! 

Semako, It's a super cool subclass it's still utterly broken in terms of power level though. It could be fun in a high HB game where you don't really care about game balance, though. 

No-save blindness, restained, and fear is a recipe for crippling a boss - even if the chance of rolling those is only 40%, the combo potential with EB means you've left the door open for the things DMs hate about monks -> Action + Quicken spell EB and just keep rolling on the table until you get the result you want to cripple the boss without Legendary Resistances getting in the way.

A Gazer familiar that can use it's Eye Rays (technically not an attack so a familiar can do it) each round at level 1.

A free aberration buddy at level 18 that is making 4 attacks a round at range (i.e. an extra Fighter in the party)

An anti-magic cone that your allies can kite in & out of every round to make the whole party completely immune to magic.

The ability to cast 2nd level Invisibility on your aberration familiar and then cast spells from it's space without breaking that invisibility at level 6!

Then suggest please how I can fix those issues :-)

I reduced the eye ray damage already and removed the ability to roll twice and choose the result. As I wrote, I ran into issues to word the eye-ray ability properly in English considering there is no easy way to refer to single target saving throw spells for example, so I went with attack rolls instead. Remember that you have to use a sorcery point for each roll. You might very well roll something the target is unaffected by or just deal some additional damage which some other sorcerers can do for free without using sorcery points.       
Considering the randomness and the die roll needed for that and the initial requirement for the attack to hit, I really think adding a saving throw would be overkill and reduce the ability to an useless gimmick.      
Also bear in mind in regards to balance of that ability that 1st) spells that are compatible with it are only either cantrips or very sub-par spells like Ray of Sickness, Scorching Ray or Melf's Acid Arrow; and furthermore, 1 sorcery point at 6th level allows any sorcerer to twin a cantrip or 1st level spell - which can result in more damage than rolling  a damaging eye ray. For 2 sorcery points, you can twin 2nd level spells like Tasha's mind whip (while it has a saving throw, many creatures have very bad int and are unlikely to succeed at it) or quicken any spell.

Gazer familiars are RAW actually, the statblock explicily mentions gazers can be used as familiars of the DM allows it. Every wizard can have a gazer familiar at level 1, at any time, just by casting find familiar as a ritual. They don't need to dream it into existence during a rest.

What would you change about the antimagic cone? It already is restricted in use and much smaller than the regular beholder's cone. You always need to take into account that it works against your own magic too and against your allies' magic, including magic items. It is a double-edged sword in that way. I don't see a way of nerfing it more but retaining it at the same time.  Also, teamwork always is good as are features that encourage it!

What would you change about the summon aberration spell? Remember we are at level 18 here. Wish was one level before at level 17, and other casters also get Simulacrum and True Polymorph. From my experience playing and DMing tier 4 games, I can assue you, weaker summons would just die so quickly in combat, they would be useless. While of course flavor is a big part of this feature, I want it to be useful too.   
I already wrote about multiple alternatives like Simulacrum or other single-creature summons, but they would all end up being even more powerful - even if they are much lower leveled spells such as the 5th level Conjure Elemental or the 6th level Conjure Fey. I just don't see another way to have the abilitiy written like it is now, comparatively short, easily understandable and allowing for that much freedom regarding the summoned creature's form and abilities.      
If you have a better idea, I am glad to hear it :-)

2nd level invisibility on the familiar is a cool strat, but requires your concentration, meaning you lock yourself out of various other spells, and the familiar dies easily. I am not sure whether I would give you advantage here if the enemy can see you, since you are technically still the one casting the spell, and you are visible. It is a nice strat though - but we want players to be creative in combat, right?

I am really at a loss regarding how I could nerf this subclass while keeping its features working and its flavor alive - and without having each ability be like half a page due to many arbitrary restrictions to keep it "balanced"...

Welp, I wasn't able to turn the notes and outlines I used to run the heist into something I could actually submit, unfortunately. I've got four pages of the prep from running this for today's session translated into content written in adventure format for this competition, but I wasn't able to actually complete all of it and turn it in.

Sorry guys. This is another competition I won't be able to participate in lol. At least I'll publish this on DMs Guild or something when I finish this adventure, and if i ever decide to make an account there. :)

Quote from Semako >>

I am really at a loss regarding how I could nerf this subclass while keeping its features working and its flavor alive - and without having each ability be like half a page due to many arbitrary restrictions to keep it "balanced"...

I kind of wanted to stay out of this since in theory this is a competition, but... I think you just had too many cool ideas and tried to pack them all in. As Faulkner said, you have to kill your darlings -- as part of the creative process, sometimes you have to get rid of things that don't fit, no matter how much you love them 

For instance, I don't think any other sorcerous origin (at least not official ones) has two 18th-level features, much less two that are on the upper end in terms of power and utility. Even at 1st level, between the three features (which, again, I don't think any other origins have more than two 1st-level features) you're getting extra spells including EB, darkvision, free detect magic, free find familiar, the equivalent of a 3rd-level wizard feature, no need to carry a spellcasting focus or component pouch and, why not, an extra skill proficiency too. That's... a lot

With regard to Agilemind's specific concerns, the gazer statblock actually says that they will only serve casters of at least 3rd level:

Variant: Gazer Familiar

Spellcasters who are interested in unusual familiars find that gazers are eager to serve someone who has magical power. Unless its master is strict, a gazer familiar can be unruly, behaving aggressively toward other Tiny creatures. A gazer serving as a familiar has the following trait:

Familiar. The gazer can serve another creature as a familiar, forming a telepathic bond with its willing master, provided that the master is at least a 3rd-level spellcaster. While the two are bonded, the master can sense what the gazer senses as long as they are within 1 mile of each other. If its master causes it physical harm, the gazer will end its service as a familiar, breaking the telepathic bond.

As for the Eye Rays feature, I personally don't feel that requiring a save on the conditions it imposes (I'm including the "push 30 feet" one in that group) renders it too much of a nerf, especially considering you're also getting a whole 'nother useful 6th-level feature anyway. Yes, it now requires a hit plus a random roll plus a failed save to land one specific condition if you need it, but you're still doing the initial spell damage, and in most fights you'll get something useful for the sorcery point. You can use the feature multiple times on the same spell if you hit multiple times with it too... and again, you've given them eldritch blast, to say nothing of a spell like scorching ray. Or how about vampiric touch or shadow blade? Nothing there says it can only be used on ranged spell attacks

As with most of the people who have responded, I think the presentation and concept are A+, and there's a bunch of really good ideas in there. There's maybe just too many of them

Quote from AntonSirius >>

I think you just had too many cool ideas and tried to pack them all in. As Faulkner said, you have to kill your darlings -- as part of the creative process, sometimes you have to get rid of things that don't fit, no matter how much you love them.

[Sic]

As with most of the people who have responded, I think the presentation and concept are A+, and there's a bunch of really good ideas in there. There's maybe just too many of them

Agreed.

Quote from AntonSirius >>

Quote from Semako >>

I am really at a loss regarding how I could nerf this subclass while keeping its features working and its flavor alive - and without having each ability be like half a page due to many arbitrary restrictions to keep it "balanced"...

 

I kind of wanted to stay out of this since in theory this is a competition, but... I think you just had too many cool ideas and tried to pack them all in. As Faulkner said, you have to kill your darlings -- as part of the creative process, sometimes you have to get rid of things that don't fit, no matter how much you love them 

For instance, I don't think any other sorcerous origin (at least not official ones) has two 18th-level features, much less two that are on the upper end in terms of power and utility. Even at 1st level, between the three features (which, again, I don't think any other origins have more than two 1st-level features) you're getting extra spells including EB, darkvision, free detect magic, free find familiar, the equivalent of a 3rd-level wizard feature, no need to carry a spellcasting focus or component pouch and, why not, an extra skill proficiency too. That's... a lot

With regard to Agilemind's specific concerns, the gazer statblock actually says that they will only serve casters of at least 3rd level:

Variant: Gazer Familiar

Spellcasters who are interested in unusual familiars find that gazers are eager to serve someone who has magical power. Unless its master is strict, a gazer familiar can be unruly, behaving aggressively toward other Tiny creatures. A gazer serving as a familiar has the following trait:

Familiar. The gazer can serve another creature as a familiar, forming a telepathic bond with its willing master, provided that the master is at least a 3rd-level spellcaster. While the two are bonded, the master can sense what the gazer senses as long as they are within 1 mile of each other. If its master causes it physical harm, the gazer will end its service as a familiar, breaking the telepathic bond.

 

As for the Eye Rays feature, I personally don't feel that requiring a save on the conditions it imposes (I'm including the "push 30 feet" one in that group) renders it too much of a nerf, especially considering you're also getting a whole 'nother useful 6th-level feature anyway. Yes, it now requires a hit plus a random roll plus a failed save to land one specific condition if you need it, but you're still doing the initial spell damage, and in most fights you'll get something useful for the sorcery point. You can use the feature multiple times on the same spell if you hit multiple times with it too... and again, you've given them eldritch blast, to say nothing of a spell like scorching ray. Or how about vampiric touch or shadow blade? Nothing there says it can only be used on ranged spell attacks

As with most of the people who have responded, I think the presentation and concept are A+, and there's a bunch of really good ideas in there. There's maybe just too many of them

Why is giving them Eldritch Blast that much of an issue? They do not get eldritch invocations, so Eldritch Blast is just Firebolt with a different damage type and less critical damage in exchange for a higher chance to at least deal some damage (and they can potentially roll on the eye ray table multiple times for multiple sorcery points).

Shadow Blade does not work with eye rays because it uses weapon attacks, not spell attacks, and Vampiric Touch is not good.

I agree that the 1st level features are a bit much, but, unfortunately, the sorcerer base class is really lacking there. Using one's own body as a focus and detecting magic for example should really be part of the base class.

2 features at 1st levels is not unheard of. Shadow sorcerers gain both the ability to drop to 1 hit point instead of falling unconscious and extended darkvision plus a cheaper cast of darkness they can see through. And many DMs including me allow every sorcerer to have subclass spells like Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul.

Getting two useful features at 6th level is nothing out of the ordinary, the Aberrant Mind sorcerer for example gets two features too. I'd argue Psionic Casting is at least on par with the Eye Rays, if not better. With Psionic Casting, you get to use top spells like dissonant whispers, mind whip, suggestion, hypnotic pattern, psychic lance, dominate person... for much cheaper than usuall and completely undetectable (better than subtle spell because M components are removed too), which is incredible in social encounters and prevents counterspell. And you can apply metamagic to these spells too. With these eye rays, you have the random chance of adding an useful effect to a cantrip or a bad leveled spell if you are willing to spend more sorcery points.

Yes, 2 level 18 features might be too much, one might have to go.

But which features would you remove while keeping the class's concept alive? Both dreaming things into existence and the eye abilities are iconic for beholders and should be part of a beholder-themed sorcerer subclass in my opinion; and I like that right now they don't just learn new stuff as they level,  but have their existing abilities become stronger too. So far I had been leaning strongly into that direction that you become what gave you the magic in the first place - a beholder.

I actually think many subclasses in the game are really lacking at higher levels, for the sorcerer and for other classes. I'd rather buff them. I think it would feel really weird if a wizard using shapechange or a druid using true polymorph gets more/stronger beholder powers than a sorcerer whose entire subclass is themed around that.

I'd suggest fixes to the subclass but clearly your position is: "Sorcerer sucks so my subclass should be incredibly OP. People theory craft all kinds of ways that Wizards can be incredibly broken, therefore sorcerers should be incredibly broken too." I disagree with those two points, thus my suggestions to nerf the subclass to be inline with the current most powerful sorcerer subclasses will be rejected, so I'm just going to let this be. If you like the subclass how it is that's great, you can let your players use it and have a great time! I would never allow my players to use it, because that's not the kind of game I enjoy DMing. But as long as you are having fun you're playing the game right. 

No, that is not my position. I am just trying to find ways to nerf the subclass to bring it in line with other sorcerer subclasses while keeping its flavor and concept. I could take out the part about dreaming stuff into existence ceompletely, but I do not want that, since that is iconic to beholder(kin). Things like these make subclasses unique and flavorful.

If you had read my posts, you would have known that I was trying to find ways to better balance my subclass, that I was asking for suggestions and that I agreed that probably one of the level 18 features needs to go.

I am also curious, how many sorcerers have you played and at which levels? What was your experience with various sorcerer subclasses

Quote from Semako>>

Why is giving them Eldritch Blast that much of an issue? They do not get eldritch invocations, so Eldritch Blast is just Firebolt with a [better] damage type and [a better chance of doing some] critical damage [plus] a higher chance to at least deal some damage (and they can potentially roll on the eye ray table multiple times for multiple sorcery points).

If EB is no better than firebolt, why'd you bother to include it? There's nothing lore-wise connecting beholders and eldritch blasts

Shadow Blade does not work with eye rays because it uses weapon attacks, not spell attacks, and Vampiric Touch is not good.

flame blade, then. The point is not whether you think those spells are "good". I was simply trying to point out different spells that would allow for multiple uses of this feature, which might have different interactions than you were anticipating since you seemed to have designed the table with EB in mind

I agree that the 1st level features are a bit much, but, unfortunately, the sorcerer base class is really lacking there. Using one's own body as a focus and detecting magic for example should really be part of the base class.

I'm really not sure what to say to the idea that all sorcerers should be able to detect magic at will for free

2 features at 1st levels is not unheard of

Two isn't. Three is. Additional spells are a subclass feature too 

Shadow sorcerers gain both the ability to drop to 1 hit point instead of falling unconscious and extended darkvision plus a cheaper cast of darkness they can see through. And many DMs including me allow every sorcerer to have subclass spells like Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul.

Then remove the additional spells feature from this one, and leave that to DMs like you who grant additional spell options to subclasses that don't otherwise have them

Yes, 2 level 18 features might be too much, one might have to go.

But which features would you remove while keeping the class's concept alive? Both dreaming things into existence and the eye abilities are iconic for beholders and should be part of a beholder-themed sorcerer subclass in my opinion; and I like that right now they don't just learn new stuff as they level,  but have their existing abilities become stronger too. So far I had been leaning strongly into that direction that you become what gave you the magic in the first place - a beholder.

Personally I think you're overestimating how "iconic" beholders dreaming things into existence is, but at the same time, that is the core of the subclass so I can why you'd want to keep it. Nonetheless, one of those 18th-level features should go. You'll have to choose which you think is more important to the concept -- the improved dreamed creature, or the antimagic cone -- although a third option would be to ditch the 14th-level feature and shift one of the 18th-level features down, potentially nerfing it a bit at the same time

I gave them Eldritch Blast, because beholders can deal force damage but not fire damage; and its multiple beams thematically work very well as eye rays.

Flame Blade is a terrible spell. And it is no different from any other spell with multiple spell attacks. You still have to spend a sorcery point for any spell attack to be able to roll on the eye ray table.

I am not going to remove the subclass spells. First, since Tasha's, subclass spells have been standard for sorcerers. Second, many DMs give other sorcerers subclass spells too to account for that change and to solve the issue of sorcerers learning only so few spells. And third, the beholder sorcerer needs to have access to spells like dream, arcane eye or clairvoyance, which aren't sorcerer spells per default. Subclass spells are the way to go.

Not sure about removing the level 14 feature instead. There needs to be a feature for scaling the damage of the eye rays (since it was point of the discussion before that the eye rays dealt to much damage, thus they had their damage reduced but got damage scaling instead), and omitting a flying speed would make no sense in my opinion.

Maybe the two level 18 features can be combined into one in some way?

Announcement.

Alright. The time for submitting (or editing) has concluded, so it is time to get down to voting. The link to the poll can be found in the initial post now as well as below. Please take the time to carefully review every submission you vote for. Also, if you already reviewed any of the submissions, make sure you check their most current version, in case changes were made. All of the Contestant links should be up to date, but if I missed any, please let me know.

Best of luck to all the participants. Please let me know if there are any issues with the poll

COMPETITION OF THE FINEST BREWS XIII POLL