I am quite curious, what would you change about Tharizdun to make the concept work?
The monster started out as a living black hole without any "character" or "personality", I only turned it into Tharizdun into a later revision, when I also added liar actions and regional effects. It is supposed to be a large-scale threat that shrouds the sky in darkness and consumes the entire plane of existence. Its attacks have a long range, but the tentacles do not insta-kill anyone and only restrain on a failed Con save; it can't even use them to pull something into its maw. I also felt that if I would reduce the reach of the tentacles, it would have the same issue as a tarrasque in that it would not be able to threaten long-ranged characters in any way considering how slow it is. Also, with its AC being literally 1, it is not easy to miss attacks against it... :-)
I fully expect that a normal level 20 party will be TPKed by it, but this monster is not supposed to be randomly thrown at any level 20 party. A party that is prepared for this encounter, such as by having pre-cast spells like Death Ward, Freedom of Movement and Mind Blank and by having acquired magic items that help them resist the gravity and corruption, magic items that can cast Plane Shift, and for melees magic items that allow them to fight at range such as returning thrown weapons, should be able to deal with it. Consideirng that Tharizdun's release will be a major event in the multiverse, a party should have time to prepare for that, to quest for artifacts they might need. Using terrain or having a strong barbarian hold a weaker character can also help to avoid getting pulled towards Tharizdun.
Since someone mentioned it, getting sent to the Abyss only is a death sentence for those without Plane Shift (although there is still the risk of dying immediately). Death Ward can help wonders here.
Regarding the Frost Worm, one of Tharizdun's domains is "cold", so it made sense to me thematically. I picked monsters that represent various domains of Tharizdun here. The Star Spawn Seer for madness and entropy, the Larva Mage for decay, the Frost Worm for cold and the Night Walker for the darkness.
Regarding the Chain Lightning spell, I was imagining Tharizdun as a vortex of darkness in the sky, constantly howling, grinding and moaning as it consumes (Wail of Hunger), and with eerie lightning flashing around/within it. Real black holes also can produce bright flashes of light.
Would you reduce the range on all of Tharizdun's abilities? How much? Or would you change something else?
I am sorry. I did not realize that IamSposta had already created a subclass called a Fate Weaver when I created my Fate Weaver subclass. I had no idea. Oops.
I am quite curious, what would you change about Tharizdun to make the concept work?
The monster started out as a living black hole without any "character" or "personality", I only turned it into Tharizdun into a later revision, when I also added liar actions and regional effects. It is supposed to be a large-scale threat that shrouds the sky in darkness and consumes the entire plane of existence. Its attacks have a long range, but the tentacles do not insta-kill anyone and only restrain on a failed Con save; it can't even use them to pull something into its maw. I also felt that if I would reduce the reach of the tentacles, it would have the same issue as a tarrasque in that it would not be able to threaten long-ranged characters in any way considering how slow it is. Also, with its AC being literally 1, it is not easy to miss attacks against it... :-)
I fully expect that a normal level 20 party will be TPKed by it, but this monster is not supposed to be randomly thrown at any level 20 party. A party that is prepared for this encounter, such as by having pre-cast spells like Death Ward, Freedom of Movement and Mind Blank and by having acquired magic items that help them resist the gravity and corruption, magic items that can cast Plane Shift, and for melees magic items that allow them to fight at range such as returning thrown weapons, should be able to deal with it. Consideirng that Tharizdun's release will be a major event in the multiverse, a party should have time to prepare for that, to quest for artifacts they might need. Using terrain or having a strong barbarian hold a weaker character can also help to avoid getting pulled towards Tharizdun.
Since someone mentioned it, getting sent to the Abyss only is a death sentence for those without Plane Shift (although there is still the risk of dying immediately). Death Ward can help wonders here.
Regarding the Frost Worm, one of Tharizdun's domains is "cold", so it made sense to me thematically. I picked monsters that represent various domains of Tharizdun here. The Star Spawn Seer for madness and entropy, the Larva Mage for decay, the Frost Worm for cold and the Night Walker for the darkness.
Regarding the Chain Lightning spell, I was imagining Tharizdun as a vortex of darkness in the sky, constantly howling, grinding and moaning as it consumes (Wail of Hunger), and with eerie lightning flashing around/within it. Real black holes also can produce bright flashes of light.
Would you reduce the range on all of Tharizdun's abilities? How much? Or would you change something else?
1) A creature impossible to get within 120 feet of without taking heavy hits is, generally speaking, impossible to fight, especially for melee fighters, as even with Freedom of Movement and the 8th-level (and thus not easy to cast multiple times) spell Mind Blank, damage from Void Tentacles, Gravity Surges, and Lair Actions (especially summoned creatures) will disable a player character easily. Probably decrease the range of most of Tharizdun’s abilities to 120 feet or less so that ranged characters can in any way challenge him; despite his 1 AC it’s hard to even attack at all.
2) Having high-level spells precast on the entire party would require a platoon of medium-to-high-level wizards and clerics. Additionally, these spells can be easily dispelled when Tharizdun spends his first turn and legendary actions casting dispel magic, which he’d have a hard time failing on due to his +10 to Charisma. Also, the possession of so many specific magic items and buffs is definitely not a cool assumption to make; I would recommend putting a disclaimer below the statblock so any DM who reads it knows what they need to give their players or at least knows what you expect. (P.S. using a Barbarian as an anchor is detrimental to their ability to be the warrior the class suggests they are.)
3) Getting sent to the Abyss causes you to suffer an average of 90 force damage (not an oft-resisted damage type) and any nonmagical equipment they have is annihilated immediately when enveloped by Tharizdun. There’s a chance that, even if you survive, your Plane Shift device won’t function the same way anymore, logically requiring an hour to figure it out, supposing it does still cast plane shift. Even so, there’s the 10% chance of being obliterated. As the description says, it “is disintegrated immediately and can't be brought back to life by any means short of a wish spell.” The creature doesn’t take any damage here. It doesn’t trigger death ward. They simply die.
4) I don’t know about Tharizdun’s domain, admittedly, but a living creature that can be found in nature doesn’t seem like much of his purview.
5) Flashes of light would be less like lightning and more like radiant damage, which you’ve already covered in the statblock. I just can’t justify in my mind a creature of pure destruction and entropy that summons…lightning. That makes it less of a surreal, extraplanar threat and more of a normalish (if very powerful) demon-like creature.
All in all, this statblock does indeed make a lot of assumptions in order to be fought at all, and some weird ideas float around without much logic. I would have not being sent to the abyss instead just deal a lot of damage, disintegrating if they drop to 0, and reduce the overall range of Tharizdun’s abilities: as the theme says, it doesn’t matter if they run. He’ll get them anyway.
1) I agree, that is an issue. But even if I reduced the range of Tharizdun's effects, melees would not want to come close because they would be pulled into its maw. You simply cannot fight what essentially is a black hole in melee. Regarding ranged characters, I feel like, as I said, it would lead to the issue of them simply not being challenged at all if the range of Tharizdun's abilities was much shorter, they could just kite him into all eternity due to Tharizdon's very low speed. A longbow has 150 feet short range, and against an AC of 1, disadvantage on long range for characters without Sharpshooter does not hurt. Even a light crossbow has a long rage of 320 feet. Maybe reducing the pull distance to 20 feet and the magical darkness around Tharizdun to like 90 feet could work, so that characters with a 120 foot range (hand crossbow, eldritch blast, fire bolt, javelins) have a better chance?
2) I think it makes sense to assume that a level 20 party is well-equipped with magical items. I agree that Mind Blank on everyone is a stretch, but if the party wizard has time to scribe scrolls and/or uses Simulacrum, it can work without requiring magic items nor other wizards. I mentioned Mind Blank mostly as a way to defend against Whispers from Another World. I also agree that Dispel Magic might be a problem, but it only has 120 feet range, and especially if I reduce the range of Tharizdun's abilities and its pull distance, there is a good chance to stay out of Dispel Magic range. I do not think a disclaimer like that is necessary, because that is true for every monster that is out there, particularly for high-level monsters. Every high-level monster needs to be tailored to the party that is going to fight it or the party needs to be given the equipment needed to defeat it. That is particularly important when it comes to saving throw DCs and hit points.
3) Death Ward actually protects from insta-kill effects, unlike the Half-Orc's racial ability. Also, a mistake on my part, my intention was not to destroy someone's equipment they are wearing or carrying, I need to clarify that in the ability's wording. Now that you know that, what would you change about that ability? :-) Do you think it is better to say that a creature takes the 20d8 or 90 force damage and is never transported to the Abyss?
4) I needed to use some statblocks, these appeared to be the most fitting and of appropriate strength. The ability that summons them describes that they appear different and are fiends instead of their usual creature types. Are there other creatures you would suggest?
I am sorry. I did not realize that IamSposta had already created a subclass called a Fate Weaver when I created my Fate Weaver subclass. I had no idea. Oops.
No worries. They’re different enough from one another. It’s just a name.
Whoever paid to see IAmSposta’s Way of the Fate Weaver, I cannot say sorry due to the fact that you could have paid $0 as it is “pay what you want”.
If someone mistakenly paid for my subclass when they didn’t need to, they should contact me via PM. But according to my royalty report from DM’s Guild, nobody has paid for that content at all yet:
So if someone roasted my submission because they paid for it, I might suspect it was this guy.
I fully expect that a normal level 20 party will be TPKed by it, but this monster is not supposed to be randomly thrown at any level 20 party. A party that is prepared for this encounter, such as by having pre-cast spells like Death Ward, Freedom of Movement and Mind Blank and by having acquired magic items that help them resist the gravity and corruption, magic items that can cast Plane Shift, and for melees magic items that allow them to fight at range such as returning thrown weapons, should be able to deal with it. Consideirng that Tharizdun's release will be a major event in the multiverse, a party should have time to prepare for that, to quest for artifacts they might need. Using terrain or having a strong barbarian hold a weaker character can also help to avoid getting pulled towards Tharizdun.
Even with RAW magic items and a pile of buff spells & potions your only choice is for every character to equip a magical Longbow and slowly kite it from beyond 300ft away from it, at least until the party hit enough long-term madness or is over run by endless Nightwalkers. Which would make for an incredibly boring fight.
Miles, just as a quick note, it may be a good idea to put the link for voting on the original post as well, that way anyone returning to this thread later doesnt have to search for the link 9 pages in and it doesnt get buried there.
Also to address a few things about the feedback I have been receiving thus far on my submissions:
Belly of the Beast
Forcing players to roll checks of increasing difficulty whenever they want to move in the stomachs seems very annoying, though. I agree I likely overtuned that one. I still like the idea of the DC getting higher over time, as more and more stepping stones are consumed by rising acid levels, but Ill probably lower the initial DC to make it more managable.
I think a map would help quite a lot though, and it would make it easy to implement expansions such as allowing the players to travel to other parts of the worm's body similar to what they do in the Tarrasque Task of Moreen Trask. I actually was working on a map of the stomachs as well, and had it about 80% finished, but ran out of time. Plus, I am not to talented when it comes to image upload for this website. I also do plan to add more locations further down the worm's body, including one where you encounter the mythical springs it swallowed, as well as the gizzard.
Order of the Nemesis
It also doesn’t have that much to do with fate, chance, or destiny beyond 3 of its 6 abilities. It does diverge from the competition theme somewhat, but I think that having half of the abilities work with it isnt bad. Also, in my opinion, at least two of the other abilities still work with the theme if the focus is on "fate" since those abilities tie your fate to that of someone you are cursing or who bears one of your marks.
You probably should also consider whether these debuffs should last if the Blood Hunter is healed since it will rarely take more than a round for someone to cast Healing Word... This was honestly one of the harder parts of trying to balance this ability. I wanted to design it with powerful enough debuffs that it would feel worthwhile even if your character is only down for a couple of turns. I also wanted them to be powerful enough where the rest of the party might (in a meta sense) be contemplating whether or not it is worth it to let you stay down for a round or not. In any case, I dont want the curse to persist if you are brought back, because then it could get out of hand if you are repeatedly getting dropped to 0 HP and yo-yo'd back up. I think that each debuff could perhaps be made to be a bit more impactful
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Three-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews!Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Miles, just as a quick note, it may be a good idea to put the link for voting on the original post as well, that way anyone returning to this thread later doesnt have to search for the link 9 pages in and it doesnt get buried there.
If you're interested in voting or giving feedback, feel free to get in on that! The survey can easily be found on the front page of this thread, so get your thoughts in before the end of the voting period.
I just voted. Unfortunately, I kinda had to rush through it so the scores I gave may not be perfect. However, that's the only way I was able to vote.
I appreciate your time and honesty.
Yeah, I voted pretty quickly too. I’m not sure I would have scored everything the exact same way had I taken more time, but I tried to do my best with what time I had.
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Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
I just voted. Here were some things I have in response to a tiny portion of the feedback. Thanks for all the feedback by the way. There was a lot and I have limited time so I am only responding to these two things about Fenrir that might need explaining.
Yes the lore is very similar to real world mythology, but is that a problem? I translated that stuff into Dnd and spent a long time researching several sources, and added my own thoughts and ideas about it. I don't see why being based on mythology is bad.
He can frighten people immune to being frightened. Someone didn't like this. All I want to say is that I include this ability because all the other gods were terrified of him. Gods were scared of him, they are probably considered immune to the frightened condition. I guess it might not be balanced, I don't really know, but I wanted a way to communicate that no one wanted to approach this thing, not even the king of the gods.
No, it is strongly encouraged that you vote 5&5 so that your vote on your own submission is accurately nullified.
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Hi, I’m DrakenBrine, here’s my Sig and characters
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I am quite curious, what would you change about Tharizdun to make the concept work?
The monster started out as a living black hole without any "character" or "personality", I only turned it into Tharizdun into a later revision, when I also added liar actions and regional effects. It is supposed to be a large-scale threat that shrouds the sky in darkness and consumes the entire plane of existence.
Its attacks have a long range, but the tentacles do not insta-kill anyone and only restrain on a failed Con save; it can't even use them to pull something into its maw. I also felt that if I would reduce the reach of the tentacles, it would have the same issue as a tarrasque in that it would not be able to threaten long-ranged characters in any way considering how slow it is. Also, with its AC being literally 1, it is not easy to miss attacks against it... :-)
I fully expect that a normal level 20 party will be TPKed by it, but this monster is not supposed to be randomly thrown at any level 20 party. A party that is prepared for this encounter, such as by having pre-cast spells like Death Ward, Freedom of Movement and Mind Blank and by having acquired magic items that help them resist the gravity and corruption, magic items that can cast Plane Shift, and for melees magic items that allow them to fight at range such as returning thrown weapons, should be able to deal with it.
Consideirng that Tharizdun's release will be a major event in the multiverse, a party should have time to prepare for that, to quest for artifacts they might need.
Using terrain or having a strong barbarian hold a weaker character can also help to avoid getting pulled towards Tharizdun.
Since someone mentioned it, getting sent to the Abyss only is a death sentence for those without Plane Shift (although there is still the risk of dying immediately). Death Ward can help wonders here.
Regarding the Frost Worm, one of Tharizdun's domains is "cold", so it made sense to me thematically. I picked monsters that represent various domains of Tharizdun here. The Star Spawn Seer for madness and entropy, the Larva Mage for decay, the Frost Worm for cold and the Night Walker for the darkness.
Regarding the Chain Lightning spell, I was imagining Tharizdun as a vortex of darkness in the sky, constantly howling, grinding and moaning as it consumes (Wail of Hunger), and with eerie lightning flashing around/within it. Real black holes also can produce bright flashes of light.
Would you reduce the range on all of Tharizdun's abilities? How much? Or would you change something else?
I am sorry. I did not realize that IamSposta had already created a subclass called a Fate Weaver when I created my Fate Weaver subclass. I had no idea. Oops.
1) A creature impossible to get within 120 feet of without taking heavy hits is, generally speaking, impossible to fight, especially for melee fighters, as even with Freedom of Movement and the 8th-level (and thus not easy to cast multiple times) spell Mind Blank, damage from Void Tentacles, Gravity Surges, and Lair Actions (especially summoned creatures) will disable a player character easily. Probably decrease the range of most of Tharizdun’s abilities to 120 feet or less so that ranged characters can in any way challenge him; despite his 1 AC it’s hard to even attack at all.
2) Having high-level spells precast on the entire party would require a platoon of medium-to-high-level wizards and clerics. Additionally, these spells can be easily dispelled when Tharizdun spends his first turn and legendary actions casting dispel magic, which he’d have a hard time failing on due to his +10 to Charisma. Also, the possession of so many specific magic items and buffs is definitely not a cool assumption to make; I would recommend putting a disclaimer below the statblock so any DM who reads it knows what they need to give their players or at least knows what you expect. (P.S. using a Barbarian as an anchor is detrimental to their ability to be the warrior the class suggests they are.)
3) Getting sent to the Abyss causes you to suffer an average of 90 force damage (not an oft-resisted damage type) and any nonmagical equipment they have is annihilated immediately when enveloped by Tharizdun. There’s a chance that, even if you survive, your Plane Shift device won’t function the same way anymore, logically requiring an hour to figure it out, supposing it does still cast plane shift. Even so, there’s the 10% chance of being obliterated. As the description says, it “is disintegrated immediately and can't be brought back to life by any means short of a wish spell.” The creature doesn’t take any damage here. It doesn’t trigger death ward. They simply die.
4) I don’t know about Tharizdun’s domain, admittedly, but a living creature that can be found in nature doesn’t seem like much of his purview.
5) Flashes of light would be less like lightning and more like radiant damage, which you’ve already covered in the statblock. I just can’t justify in my mind a creature of pure destruction and entropy that summons…lightning. That makes it less of a surreal, extraplanar threat and more of a normalish (if very powerful) demon-like creature.
All in all, this statblock does indeed make a lot of assumptions in order to be fought at all, and some weird ideas float around without much logic. I would have not being sent to the abyss instead just deal a lot of damage, disintegrating if they drop to 0, and reduce the overall range of Tharizdun’s abilities: as the theme says, it doesn’t matter if they run. He’ll get them anyway.
Come participate in the Competition of the Finest Brews, Edition XXVIII?
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Thank you for your feedback!
1) I agree, that is an issue. But even if I reduced the range of Tharizdun's effects, melees would not want to come close because they would be pulled into its maw. You simply cannot fight what essentially is a black hole in melee. Regarding ranged characters, I feel like, as I said, it would lead to the issue of them simply not being challenged at all if the range of Tharizdun's abilities was much shorter, they could just kite him into all eternity due to Tharizdon's very low speed. A longbow has 150 feet short range, and against an AC of 1, disadvantage on long range for characters without Sharpshooter does not hurt. Even a light crossbow has a long rage of 320 feet. Maybe reducing the pull distance to 20 feet and the magical darkness around Tharizdun to like 90 feet could work, so that characters with a 120 foot range (hand crossbow, eldritch blast, fire bolt, javelins) have a better chance?
2) I think it makes sense to assume that a level 20 party is well-equipped with magical items. I agree that Mind Blank on everyone is a stretch, but if the party wizard has time to scribe scrolls and/or uses Simulacrum, it can work without requiring magic items nor other wizards. I mentioned Mind Blank mostly as a way to defend against Whispers from Another World. I also agree that Dispel Magic might be a problem, but it only has 120 feet range, and especially if I reduce the range of Tharizdun's abilities and its pull distance, there is a good chance to stay out of Dispel Magic range.
I do not think a disclaimer like that is necessary, because that is true for every monster that is out there, particularly for high-level monsters. Every high-level monster needs to be tailored to the party that is going to fight it or the party needs to be given the equipment needed to defeat it. That is particularly important when it comes to saving throw DCs and hit points.
3) Death Ward actually protects from insta-kill effects, unlike the Half-Orc's racial ability. Also, a mistake on my part, my intention was not to destroy someone's equipment they are wearing or carrying, I need to clarify that in the ability's wording. Now that you know that, what would you change about that ability? :-) Do you think it is better to say that a creature takes the 20d8 or 90 force damage and is never transported to the Abyss?
4) I needed to use some statblocks, these appeared to be the most fitting and of appropriate strength. The ability that summons them describes that they appear different and are fiends instead of their usual creature types. Are there other creatures you would suggest?
No worries. They’re different enough from one another. It’s just a name.
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If someone mistakenly paid for my subclass when they didn’t need to, they should contact me via PM. But according to my royalty report from DM’s Guild, nobody has paid for that content at all yet:
So if someone roasted my submission because they paid for it, I might suspect it was this guy.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting
Even with RAW magic items and a pile of buff spells & potions your only choice is for every character to equip a magical Longbow and slowly kite it from beyond 300ft away from it, at least until the party hit enough long-term madness or is over run by endless Nightwalkers. Which would make for an incredibly boring fight.
Miles, just as a quick note, it may be a good idea to put the link for voting on the original post as well, that way anyone returning to this thread later doesnt have to search for the link 9 pages in and it doesnt get buried there.
Also to address a few things about the feedback I have been receiving thus far on my submissions:
Belly of the Beast
Forcing players to roll checks of increasing difficulty whenever they want to move in the stomachs seems very annoying, though. I agree I likely overtuned that one. I still like the idea of the DC getting higher over time, as more and more stepping stones are consumed by rising acid levels, but Ill probably lower the initial DC to make it more managable.
I think a map would help quite a lot though, and it would make it easy to implement expansions such as allowing the players to travel to other parts of the worm's body similar to what they do in the Tarrasque Task of Moreen Trask. I actually was working on a map of the stomachs as well, and had it about 80% finished, but ran out of time. Plus, I am not to talented when it comes to image upload for this website. I also do plan to add more locations further down the worm's body, including one where you encounter the mythical springs it swallowed, as well as the gizzard.
Order of the Nemesis
It also doesn’t have that much to do with fate, chance, or destiny beyond 3 of its 6 abilities. It does diverge from the competition theme somewhat, but I think that having half of the abilities work with it isnt bad. Also, in my opinion, at least two of the other abilities still work with the theme if the focus is on "fate" since those abilities tie your fate to that of someone you are cursing or who bears one of your marks.
You probably should also consider whether these debuffs should last if the Blood Hunter is healed since it will rarely take more than a round for someone to cast Healing Word... This was honestly one of the harder parts of trying to balance this ability. I wanted to design it with powerful enough debuffs that it would feel worthwhile even if your character is only down for a couple of turns. I also wanted them to be powerful enough where the rest of the party might (in a meta sense) be contemplating whether or not it is worth it to let you stay down for a round or not. In any case, I dont want the curse to persist if you are brought back, because then it could get out of hand if you are repeatedly getting dropped to 0 HP and yo-yo'd back up. I think that each debuff could perhaps be made to be a bit more impactful
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Done.
Come participate in the Competition of the Finest Brews, Edition XXVIII?
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When does voting close? I need some time to formulate my opinions and had a busy weekend haha
I am also here.
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midnight (MT) on Monday April 17th
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Thanks! That's more than enough time haha
I am also here.
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If you're interested in voting or giving feedback, feel free to get in on that! The survey can easily be found on the front page of this thread, so get your thoughts in before the end of the voting period.
Only 4 days left!
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I just voted. Unfortunately, I kinda had to rush through it so the scores I gave may not be perfect. However, that's the only way I was able to vote.
BoringBard's long and tedious posts somehow manage to enrapture audiences. How? Because he used Charm Person, the #1 bard spell!
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Ever wanted to talk about your parties' worst mistakes? Do so HERE. What's your favorite class, why? Share & explain
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Come participate in the Competition of the Finest Brews, Edition XXVIII?
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Yeah, I voted pretty quickly too. I’m not sure I would have scored everything the exact same way had I taken more time, but I tried to do my best with what time I had.
Paladin main who spends most of his D&D time worldbuilding or DMing, not Paladin-ing.
I just voted. Here were some things I have in response to a tiny portion of the feedback. Thanks for all the feedback by the way. There was a lot and I have limited time so I am only responding to these two things about Fenrir that might need explaining.
Yes the lore is very similar to real world mythology, but is that a problem? I translated that stuff into Dnd and spent a long time researching several sources, and added my own thoughts and ideas about it. I don't see why being based on mythology is bad.
He can frighten people immune to being frightened. Someone didn't like this. All I want to say is that I include this ability because all the other gods were terrified of him. Gods were scared of him, they are probably considered immune to the frightened condition. I guess it might not be balanced, I don't really know, but I wanted a way to communicate that no one wanted to approach this thing, not even the king of the gods.
37 hours remain! if you were planning on voting and haven’t yet, or if you can spare the time, be sure to take the survey!
Come participate in the Competition of the Finest Brews, Edition XXVIII?
My homebrew stuff:
Spells, Monsters, Magic Items, Feats, Subclasses.
I am an Archfey, but nobody seems to notice.
Extended Signature