On its own, the hexblade is suboptimal but ultimately about in line with several barbarian subclasses for DPR. The real problem with reworking it in the way a lot of you are suggesting, is that it is super front loaded and one of the most common multiclass dips due to the shield and armor proficiencies. But in my opinion the main risk is the multiclassing potential with sorcerer. as low as 8th level (Warlock5, Sorcerer3) a player can make two weapon attacks and then quicken cast Eldritch Blast. by 8th level their charisma is likely at least 18 so if all 4 attacks hit and they are targeting their cursed target, the bonus damage alone from Cha and proficiency would be 28.
Hexblades never (ever) do more damage than other Warlocks with Eldritch Blast + Agonizing Blast (EB+AB), from levels 2-20 (at level 1, Hexblades do about double EB damage)
That is not even remotely accurate.
A major problem I noticed in this thread (along with the majority of dpr analyses) is that virtually no one factors chances to hit into their calculations. It makes a HUGE difference. Another big problem is that people aren't taking feats into consideration. If you are building a melee character and you are not accounting for those, then you are doing it wrong.
For an optimized Hexblade build, I suggest going with a half-elf (drow) w Polearm Master (PAM) at level 4 + Elven Accuracy (EA) at lvl 8 + Great Weapon Master (GWM) at level 12 that is using Devil's Sight + either Darkness or Shadow of Moil from level 3 onwards. Note: Shadow of Moil even works on enemies with Truesight so you always have a way to be attacking with advantage while enemies are attacking you with disadvantage. Having enemies be disadvantage when attacking you also throws your "You now have equal protection, better base damage..." comment right out the window.
When you take into account the chance to hit and various levels of improved weapon pact, the melee build I suggested above is doing somewhere between 50% and 100% more damage per round as an EB+AB build after getting PAM at level 4, and the gap only widens with higher enemy AC's. Even if you use some other race and don't go for Elven Accuracy, you're still doing somewhere between 50-75% more damage than an EB+AB build. You'll even solidly out damage Barbarians, Fighters, and Rangers (unless you have a DM that hands out magic weapons like candy and improved pact weapons aren't doing anything, then Barbs are pretty close but still fall behind after the Hexblade gets Lifedrinker).
Moreover, I'm not even taking into account a couple of abilities that can substantially increase this build's damage output in certain situations. One of those abilities is PAM attacks of opportunity. For almost any other class, PAM opportunity attacks are pretty rare but PAM Hexblades can easily get them by using hit and run tactics. They are one of the few PAM builds that can do this since they do not provoke enemy attacks of opportunity while Darkness is up. That gives another 33-ish% damage increase when available. The other melee Hexblade ability is Eldritch Smite which you can use on crits fairly reliably once you have EA; that's an extra 10d8 damage when you pull them off.
I know this is an old post, but it was one of the top hits when I looked into Hexblade for broken melee builds and the information in it is just flat out wrong. I wanted to throw my two cents in in case anyone else comes across this post in their quest for making a broken melee character. In case you are such a person, the Hexblade build I described above out damages any other optimized melee build with the exception of a PAM+GWM build using Barbarian 2 + Fighter X. The problem w the Barb+Fighter build (or any non-Hexblade PAM build) is that finding magic glaives/halberds is essentially impossible if your DM is using tables to generate magic weapons randomly. That was the problem I ran into when I used PAM+GWM Barb+Fighter in a campaign.
Hey all. Haven't touched much of DnD beyond for about a year now.
That said, I've got a full rework of the Hexblade coming in soon.
I've got literal sheets on sheets of statistical analysis to make it competitive, but balanced, reduce the front-loading issue (i.e., letting players dip 1-2 levels into Hexblade and bounce out with tons of benefit).
The finished edition is mathematically "done", I just need to finish writing up the sections in DnD beyond and publish it.
It's a total rework, and loosely based on this one but... well, more inspired. It'll feel more like a Paladin, including Level 20 benefits/compelling incentives to continue with the class, while flattening out "power spikes" to bring them in line with other classes.
Will post here when it's published, along with a new comments thread since, other than some of the names for unique subclass features, the math is completely different. It's functionally an entirely different subclass with a few similar feature names.
Cool to see people are still commenting/interested in this though! Scanning through some of the comments, a lot of you were correct in that there were multiple "broken" things about the Krieghexe build (featured on Page 1 of this thread).
Rest assured those have been pretty well addressed with the new build...
I clicked on this topic to read how you planned to tone hexblades down. Imagine my surprise. You think they're weak. Uh...lol?
Have you never actually played a hexblade with a glaive? They're NUTS. You can crit-fish like a madman. Slap elven accuracy in there and just unload on key targets. Do you know what 3 d20s per attack when you crit on a 19 or 20 does to an enemy? No really. Do you? That's almost 30% chance to crit per attack.
Hexblades need buffed. Ha. Ok pal.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Okay this was a bit long and wordy my my dyslexic eyes, so if this is already here forgive me.
Suggestions:
Extra Attack: What if instead of accursed specter, you got extra attack, like many other mages that Gish into fighting; e.g. bladesinging and college of swords.
Change Thirsting Blade to: on your turn when you successfully hit with your pact weapon or a warlock spell that makes a spell attack you may use your bonus action to make an attack with your pact weapon.
How this balances: martials have plenty of ways to weaponize their bonus actions, so the hex blade's attacks per action doesn't out pace dedicated fighters, it makes thirsting blade more about quickly finishing weaker foes, the type you don't want to waste your curse on, and it uses a limited resources.
I think if you're messing with hexblade, you also need to fix how insanely good it is as a 1 level dip. Probably moving the CHA-based attack to Pact of the Blade.
As for other warlocks being able to match that with melee builds, maybe that's okay? I like multiple ways to do a thing. Maybe what hexblade needs is flavor beyond "Pact of the Blade: the subclass."
It already is an invocation😅, Iirc sage advice is you can add double your CHA Mod around level 12ish, plus PB. In truth I think the 1-3 level dip is the intent the specter is inconsistent, creepy, and out of character for the Raven Queen as a possible patron, but it is there. You can get the similar benefits from a dip in fighter or some clerics. But the problem with warlocks in general is how often you take those short rests.
A lot of people are speculating they'll remove short rests in 5.5, so who knows what this will look like by then. As is, they tend to have feast or famine with their magic, but a GOOlock can take EB and Agonizing blast and and they deal at range 4 attack, with bigger dmg die at lower levels that a fighter. The dpr might be down and you'll have less hour than a marital but it seems folk just like the idea of being a hexablade
On its own, the hexblade is suboptimal but ultimately about in line with several barbarian subclasses for DPR. The real problem with reworking it in the way a lot of you are suggesting, is that it is super front loaded and one of the most common multiclass dips due to the shield and armor proficiencies. But in my opinion the main risk is the multiclassing potential with sorcerer. as low as 8th level (Warlock5, Sorcerer3) a player can make two weapon attacks and then quicken cast Eldritch Blast. by 8th level their charisma is likely at least 18 so if all 4 attacks hit and they are targeting their cursed target, the bonus damage alone from Cha and proficiency would be 28.
That is not even remotely accurate.
A major problem I noticed in this thread (along with the majority of dpr analyses) is that virtually no one factors chances to hit into their calculations. It makes a HUGE difference. Another big problem is that people aren't taking feats into consideration. If you are building a melee character and you are not accounting for those, then you are doing it wrong.
For an optimized Hexblade build, I suggest going with a half-elf (drow) w Polearm Master (PAM) at level 4 + Elven Accuracy (EA) at lvl 8 + Great Weapon Master (GWM) at level 12 that is using Devil's Sight + either Darkness or Shadow of Moil from level 3 onwards. Note: Shadow of Moil even works on enemies with Truesight so you always have a way to be attacking with advantage while enemies are attacking you with disadvantage. Having enemies be disadvantage when attacking you also throws your "You now have equal protection, better base damage..." comment right out the window.
When you take into account the chance to hit and various levels of improved weapon pact, the melee build I suggested above is doing somewhere between 50% and 100% more damage per round as an EB+AB build after getting PAM at level 4, and the gap only widens with higher enemy AC's. Even if you use some other race and don't go for Elven Accuracy, you're still doing somewhere between 50-75% more damage than an EB+AB build. You'll even solidly out damage Barbarians, Fighters, and Rangers (unless you have a DM that hands out magic weapons like candy and improved pact weapons aren't doing anything, then Barbs are pretty close but still fall behind after the Hexblade gets Lifedrinker).
Moreover, I'm not even taking into account a couple of abilities that can substantially increase this build's damage output in certain situations. One of those abilities is PAM attacks of opportunity. For almost any other class, PAM opportunity attacks are pretty rare but PAM Hexblades can easily get them by using hit and run tactics. They are one of the few PAM builds that can do this since they do not provoke enemy attacks of opportunity while Darkness is up. That gives another 33-ish% damage increase when available. The other melee Hexblade ability is Eldritch Smite which you can use on crits fairly reliably once you have EA; that's an extra 10d8 damage when you pull them off.
I know this is an old post, but it was one of the top hits when I looked into Hexblade for broken melee builds and the information in it is just flat out wrong. I wanted to throw my two cents in in case anyone else comes across this post in their quest for making a broken melee character. In case you are such a person, the Hexblade build I described above out damages any other optimized melee build with the exception of a PAM+GWM build using Barbarian 2 + Fighter X. The problem w the Barb+Fighter build (or any non-Hexblade PAM build) is that finding magic glaives/halberds is essentially impossible if your DM is using tables to generate magic weapons randomly. That was the problem I ran into when I used PAM+GWM Barb+Fighter in a campaign.
Hey all. Haven't touched much of DnD beyond for about a year now.
That said, I've got a full rework of the Hexblade coming in soon.
I've got literal sheets on sheets of statistical analysis to make it competitive, but balanced, reduce the front-loading issue (i.e., letting players dip 1-2 levels into Hexblade and bounce out with tons of benefit).
The finished edition is mathematically "done", I just need to finish writing up the sections in DnD beyond and publish it.
It's a total rework, and loosely based on this one but... well, more inspired. It'll feel more like a Paladin, including Level 20 benefits/compelling incentives to continue with the class, while flattening out "power spikes" to bring them in line with other classes.
Will post here when it's published, along with a new comments thread since, other than some of the names for unique subclass features, the math is completely different. It's functionally an entirely different subclass with a few similar feature names.
Cool to see people are still commenting/interested in this though! Scanning through some of the comments, a lot of you were correct in that there were multiple "broken" things about the Krieghexe build (featured on Page 1 of this thread).
Rest assured those have been pretty well addressed with the new build...
Looking forward to all of your feedback on it :)
I clicked on this topic to read how you planned to tone hexblades down. Imagine my surprise. You think they're weak. Uh...lol?
Have you never actually played a hexblade with a glaive? They're NUTS. You can crit-fish like a madman. Slap elven accuracy in there and just unload on key targets. Do you know what 3 d20s per attack when you crit on a 19 or 20 does to an enemy? No really. Do you? That's almost 30% chance to crit per attack.
Hexblades need buffed. Ha. Ok pal.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The best fix to the issue your describing is to nerf Eldritch Blast, not buff Hexblades.
Okay this was a bit long and wordy my my dyslexic eyes, so if this is already here forgive me.
Suggestions:
Extra Attack: What if instead of accursed specter, you got extra attack, like many other mages that Gish into fighting; e.g. bladesinging and college of swords.
Change Thirsting Blade to: on your turn when you successfully hit with your pact weapon or a warlock spell that makes a spell attack you may use your bonus action to make an attack with your pact weapon.
How this balances: martials have plenty of ways to weaponize their bonus actions, so the hex blade's attacks per action doesn't out pace dedicated fighters, it makes thirsting blade more about quickly finishing weaker foes, the type you don't want to waste your curse on, and it uses a limited resources.
I think if you're messing with hexblade, you also need to fix how insanely good it is as a 1 level dip. Probably moving the CHA-based attack to Pact of the Blade.
As for other warlocks being able to match that with melee builds, maybe that's okay? I like multiple ways to do a thing. Maybe what hexblade needs is flavor beyond "Pact of the Blade: the subclass."
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
It already is an invocation😅, Iirc sage advice is you can add double your CHA Mod around level 12ish, plus PB. In truth I think the 1-3 level dip is the intent the specter is inconsistent, creepy, and out of character for the Raven Queen as a possible patron, but it is there. You can get the similar benefits from a dip in fighter or some clerics. But the problem with warlocks in general is how often you take those short rests.
A lot of people are speculating they'll remove short rests in 5.5, so who knows what this will look like by then. As is, they tend to have feast or famine with their magic, but a GOOlock can take EB and Agonizing blast and and they deal at range 4 attack, with bigger dmg die at lower levels that a fighter. The dpr might be down and you'll have less hour than a marital but it seems folk just like the idea of being a hexablade
My Brews:
Race: Tropical Dwaves Spells: Summon Spirits Rites of Mummification
Monster: Osprey Feat: Skill Mastery–Animal Handler (Provides DCs for training animals applicable to those with and without this feat)
I understand this is an old thread but has OP ever published their complete rework on hexblade? Im curious to see it.