OOC: With other targets in sight (and being invisible) you can dash until you get closer where sound would make a difference - about 100 feet, depending on what else is going on.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
OOC: Great, I will optimize my speed to dash, does my cunning action allow me to add another 50' as a bonus action? If so I'll become the invisible Jetsetter and max move, that should half the gap roughly tween me and the cave opening. After that I will go to normal movement space for the final 150'. If not I'll just 100' dash this round and next if I don't check in.
*Toots will do her best to sneak up to within at least 120 feet as quickly as possible.* (stealth)-12 (Is it even possible to dash while sneaking?)
OOC: Under most circumstances, only Rogues can Dash and Hide. They would move, Dash, then Cunning Action, Hide.
Other less sneaky bastids can only move, then Hide.
BUT in this case, you can Dash with fair confidence that the gnolls will probably shoot at the crazy yackle rider charging at them and/or the paladin in shining armor (that you made shiny clean).
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
*Toots will do her best to sneak up to within at least 120 feet as quickly as possible.* (stealth)-12 (Is it even possible to dash while sneaking?)
OOC: Under most circumstances, only Rogues can Dash and Hide. They would move, Dash, then Cunning Action, Hide.
Other less sneaky bastids can only move, then Hide.
BUT in this case, you can Dash with fair confidence that the gnolls will probably shoot at the crazy yackle rider charging at them and/or the paladin in shining armor (that you made shiny clean).
OOC: I get that, but under normal circumstances, once the initial Stealth check has been made, the creature is either hidden or they are not. Subsequent checks are neither allowed nor required unless something changes which affects the DC/Check, or enough time has passed.
So in this situation, on Toots’ first turn she used her action to Hide, but on the next several turns she would have her action available. My question is if taking the Dash action counts as a significant enough change to necessitate a new Stealth check. That has honestly not come up* for my group in 5e and I don’t know what RAW is on the subject.
The reason I ask is because as I understand it, when moving stealthily a creature’s speed is halved. So Toots’ would drop from 30 ft./turn to 15. And I know that the Dash action doubles a creature’s current speed for the turn, and is therefore subjest to anything that would affect speed. So on turn 1, Toots would only move 15 feet, and the only way she could get that back up to 30 is by taking the Dash action. But if dashing spoils hiding, then she may as well not even bother worrying about hiding and just male like Forrest and run. (The only other possibility that occurs to me is that I am misremembering/misinterpreting the rules for moving stealthily.)
I’m asking so I can plan ahead for turns 2-X as to how she should use her actions until she can actually contribute in a meaningful way.
Make sense?
*
Well, it has come up... once, But it was a Rogue so I didn’t harp on it because of Cunning Action. And the only folks in the group typically inclined to play a Ranger fall into one of three mindsets:
Play it anyway because it’s what they want to play and the hey don’t care if it’s not “all that it could be.” (Those are the ones who play WotFE Monks and Berserker Barbs because fun!)
Sure, play a Ranger. But only ever Hunters and only ever choose Colossus Slayer. (She pity da fool chooses anything else!)
He is uber, extra salty that a Rangers suck so bad since they can only ever cast either Hunter’s Mark or any other spell on their sheet, and they see that additional d6 and start getting cold and itchy. (And the Hunter’s d8 too... oh my stars and garters.) The would happily combine the UA version of Favored Foe, the Colossus Slayer feature option, Improved Criticals from Da Champ, and Battlemaster Maneuvers, and all of that to the Rogue’s Scout subclass and that would come close to approximating a pale imitation of what Rangers’ are sposta be. 🙄 (Because “Ranger” would be his IRL inclination if IRL had classes. So therefore they should be “sheer perfection” just like on the GBBS.) (If you couldn’t tell, my IRL class would likely be.... can ya guess? I’ll give you a hint: they are practically perfect in every way this edition. 😜)
There is no reduction of speed while stealthed. However, moving into line of sight or if the floor is a carpet of dry leaves or something, it would probably give away your position. BUT that doesn't stop you from moving to a new location and attempting to Hide. Like Dashing from a doorway to a box inside a room and trying to Hide. If you want to remain hidden the entire time during movement there needs to be intervening terrain, but you can still Dash.
To Sum up:
Normal Folk, Hide then move, or move then Hide. Following turns you can stay hidden if there is something to hide in/behind and Dash while staying in the bushes or shadows or whatever. If not, move/Hide combo again.
Rogues: Same options as above but can also Dash then Bonus Action Hide. Or move, Hide, Bonus Action Dash. If already hiding, move, Dash, Bonus Action Dash as long as they stay in cover.
The situation you are currently in has some crevices you can hide in along the side of the mountain so you can move/Hide if you want. I was just saying that there are enough distractions that it would be a low chance to choose you to shoot at so might as well Dash.
I rated the threat table like this: [Charging mounted Dwarf, Somebody shooting back], Shining "Knight", everybody else
If I were to roll it, it would be something like 70% Taslyn/Hawksley, 20% Elyona, 10% Everybody else. Until others present themselves as higher threat or easier to kill.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
* Not doing it to be rude, just trying to maintain pace. If this is upsetting, I will refrain in the future. But please try to post once per day or give a headsup =)
Taslyn Initiative: 9
Hawksley Initiative: 20
**Oops, Toots needs initiative roll I think
((ok, that's fine. I will try to remember to remind you all when I will miss a few days, because it will happen.))
Taslyn runs further toward the gnolls, before preparingguiding bolt so that when a gnoll comes within range, its gets blasted in the face!
However, moving into line of sight or if the floor is a carpet of dry leaves or something, it would probably give away your position.
Interesting. I wouldn’t have thought of it that way. I conceptualize things more like “light forest, clear weather” as all one “stealth condition” with an understanding that areas of dried leaves leaves and such all contributing to an overall DC for the check. I don’t rule it as a change in condition until a creature leaves that “light forest” and entered “clearing” or “heavy forest” or “lightly forested mountainside” etc. Or if it started raining or something that would change the condition too. And of course entering direct LoS would affect things. Perhaps it’s because my group has never used grids and minis, so there is no part of the floor that specifically does or does not have leave, I guess I kInda conceptualize it like how AC calculations work, if my calculation for the DC changes, an new check is required. Even if the DC is the same, the calculation changed, so new check.
Like, you know those scenes in the movies when one of the supporting cast is about to die all terrified in the woods while the cannibals (or whatever) are flitting among the trees around them? The tension builds as the cannibals toy with their food like a cat. The intended target whips first right then left trying to catch more than the briefest glimpse of movement or flash of color. That person considers making a run for it only to pause when they thing they hear some movement in that direction and pause. Finally, they hear a screening behind them turn to see their attacker charging at them looking like a crazed Neanderthal and wielding a weapon likely made from human bones before *thok,* and the screen goes dark....
I treat it like that. If the cannibals had to roll for stealth every time they tried to move from tree to tree... then they likely couldn’t “flit” (dash) around too without something like cunning action as you pointed out. And since monsters didn’t technically get Bonus Actions until recently.... And because a mysterious tribe of cannibals that lives in the forest totally sounds like “monster/NPC” kindsa folks.... And since that would technically mean I couldn’t use that concept in D&D if it worked like that... And since I’ma do it anyway... Therefore I ruled that “the trees” are cover instead of “each tree” is cover. And even the screaming charge is still “an Attacking by a creature the victim couldn’t see,” but that’s what “gives away their position” after that attack.
Its always interesting to find out how different tables apply the same rules to beat suit their concept of what those rules are representing and how they represent abstractions of reality.
(No emphasis added.) I double check and you’re right. There is not a speed reduction. I was misremembering because there is a Pace limitation when traveling stealthily. But technically that only applies while traveling, not normal movement.
OOC: A forest is full of trees, bushes and general undergrowth so it's all one roll and movement through it. But if the movement carries you through a meadow, you have to roll again when entering the trees on the other side. Similar to moving through a hallway, entering a room behind an enemy but the floor has a lot of random trash unlike the clear hallway. You'd need another roll the stay undetected behind the badguy if you want to move in the room.
Lightfoot Halflings are almost comical. There can be a fight going on, and they can hide behind their allies. It is obvious where they went but they cannot be targeted if they Hide successfully.
The screaming charge from stealth is surprise round.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
OOC: Hawksley if you want some unsolicited coaching, advance as far as you can this turn (30') and fire take two shots with your bow. Keep that up till you're within 150' and lose the range disadvantage. Another option would be to dash which will bring you 60' closer total but you won't be able to make any attacks because you took up your action with dashing.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
OOC: A forest is full of trees, bushes and general undergrowth so it's all one roll and movement through it. But if the movement carries you through a meadow, you have to roll again when entering the trees on the other side. Similar to moving through a hallway, entering a room behind an enemy but the floor has a lot of random trash unlike the clear hallway. You'd need another roll the stay undetected behind the badguy if you want to move in the room.
Lightfoot Halflings are almost comical. There can be a fight going on, and they can hide behind their allies. It is obvious where they went but they cannot be targeted if they Hide successfully.
The screaming charge from stealth is surprise round.
Gotcha, I wasn’t picking up what you were putting down. Thank you.
Oh, gosh. If I made my players roll* stealth for entering or exiting a room from or to a hallways they wouldswitch games. I could get away with that once or twice per dungeon maybe, if it was a decent enough sized dungeon.
Although, that character could clearly tell that something was about to happen, so I would not have called that surprise. 🤷♂️
*
It was all of that rolling what we always played anything but D&D until 3/3.5, and even then it wasn’t really their jam. For them, all of the For them, if the game is so rules intensive that instead of “character sheet,” it requires “sheets,” then they would rather play OG WoD. I know for a fact that one of reasons they don’t hate this edition is because of the DDB sheet.** Once I finally got them over the “used to” factor and they started using the digital sheet during sessions their frustration rapidly diminished.
In their view, once a PC hits a certain point one should just know what it is or isn’t capable of and no longer feel any need to roll other than combat or special circumstances. They’re like “anti-Yureis.” Like, to them, if your game needs 3 books to play, then that’s 2 books too many. So for them, 2e wasn’t a game, it was homework. And 3 was okay... and then WotC decided they needed another half of an edition. That was when we went back to WoD. (Every book was technically a stand alone system, but they were all built on the same chassis. So once you knew the game you could skip half of each of the other books.)
**They hate the D&D paper sheet(s) so hard. And they prefer paper sheets. They used to print their PCs from DDB but still hated it. They still have all of our old ones. And you know how beat up those would get, and eventually copy over to a fresh when the HP box finally wore through from all of the erasing and writing? Not them, “patina” they call it.
OOC: With other targets in sight (and being invisible) you can dash until you get closer where sound would make a difference - about 100 feet, depending on what else is going on.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
OOC: Great, I will optimize my speed to dash, does my cunning action allow me to add another 50' as a bonus action? If so I'll become the invisible Jetsetter and max move, that should half the gap roughly tween me and the cave opening. After that I will go to normal movement space for the final 150'. If not I'll just 100' dash this round and next if I don't check in.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
OOC: I hope I'm not missing something obvious...Movement 30 feet , Dash 30 feet , Cunning Action (Bonus Action) 30 feet.
Range to target 210 feet.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
OOC: Upcast longstrider?
I have a weird sense of humor.
I also make maps.(That's a link)
Initiative: 9
*Toots will dash until she is in range to attack, and then she will slow to a walk until she’s close enough for healing word just in case.*
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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OOC: Under most circumstances, only Rogues can Dash and Hide. They would move, Dash, then Cunning Action, Hide.
Other less sneaky bastids can only move, then Hide.
BUT in this case, you can Dash with fair confidence that the gnolls will probably shoot at the crazy yackle rider charging at them and/or the paladin in shining armor (that you made shiny clean).
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
OOC: I'm fair certain he did not cast that. Yet.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
20 Hawksley, Elyona
17 gnoll
13 gnoll
12 Tommary, gnoll
10 gnoll
9 Toots, Taslyn
6 Oethe
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
The gnolls continue to whip javelins at the largest, closest target.
Gnoll whip javelin! Attack: 10 Damage: 9
Gnoll whip javelin! Attack: 6 Damage: 7
Gnoll whip javelin! Attack: 9 Damage: 2
Gnoll whip javelin! Attack: 5 Damage: 9
whiff whiff splish splash!
Tommary pounds rock with invisible feet - range 210
Toots runs and runs ! range 250
** Taslyn and Oethe are up
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
OOC: I get that, but under normal circumstances, once the initial Stealth check has been made, the creature is either hidden or they are not. Subsequent checks are neither allowed nor required unless something changes which affects the DC/Check, or enough time has passed.
So in this situation, on Toots’ first turn she used her action to Hide, but on the next several turns she would have her action available. My question is if taking the Dash action counts as a significant enough change to necessitate a new Stealth check. That has honestly not come up* for my group in 5e and I don’t know what RAW is on the subject.
The reason I ask is because as I understand it, when moving stealthily a creature’s speed is halved. So Toots’ would drop from 30 ft./turn to 15. And I know that the Dash action doubles a creature’s current speed for the turn, and is therefore subjest to anything that would affect speed. So on turn 1, Toots would only move 15 feet, and the only way she could get that back up to 30 is by taking the Dash action. But if dashing spoils hiding, then she may as well not even bother worrying about hiding and just male like Forrest and run. (The only other possibility that occurs to me is that I am misremembering/misinterpreting the rules for moving stealthily.)
I’m asking so I can plan ahead for turns 2-X as to how she should use her actions until she can actually contribute in a meaningful way.
Make sense?
*
Well, it has come up... once, But it was a Rogue so I didn’t harp on it because of Cunning Action. And the only folks in the group typically inclined to play a Ranger fall into one of three mindsets:
(If you couldn’t tell, my IRL class would likely be.... can ya guess? I’ll give you a hint: they are practically perfect in every way this edition. 😜)
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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OOC: Honestly, the rules are a bit video gamey.
There is no reduction of speed while stealthed. However, moving into line of sight or if the floor is a carpet of dry leaves or something, it would probably give away your position. BUT that doesn't stop you from moving to a new location and attempting to Hide. Like Dashing from a doorway to a box inside a room and trying to Hide. If you want to remain hidden the entire time during movement there needs to be intervening terrain, but you can still Dash.
To Sum up:
Normal Folk, Hide then move, or move then Hide. Following turns you can stay hidden if there is something to hide in/behind and Dash while staying in the bushes or shadows or whatever. If not, move/Hide combo again.
Rogues: Same options as above but can also Dash then Bonus Action Hide. Or move, Hide, Bonus Action Dash. If already hiding, move, Dash, Bonus Action Dash as long as they stay in cover.
The situation you are currently in has some crevices you can hide in along the side of the mountain so you can move/Hide if you want. I was just saying that there are enough distractions that it would be a low chance to choose you to shoot at so might as well Dash.
I rated the threat table like this: [Charging mounted Dwarf, Somebody shooting back], Shining "Knight", everybody else
If I were to roll it, it would be something like 70% Taslyn/Hawksley, 20% Elyona, 10% Everybody else. Until others present themselves as higher threat or easier to kill.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
((sorry ya'll! I had a really busy few days and could not post... I'll get back to posting regularly now))
((ok, that's fine. I will try to remember to remind you all when I will miss a few days, because it will happen.))
Taslyn runs further toward the gnolls, before preparing guiding bolt so that when a gnoll comes within range, its gets blasted in the face!
I am an average mathematics enjoyer.
>Extended Signature<
OOC: Taslyn is at 120 feet after movement so can fire away. There is one mildly hurt, the others (3 of them) untouched.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
OOC "shoptalk:"
Interesting. I wouldn’t have thought of it that way. I conceptualize things more like “light forest, clear weather” as all one “stealth condition” with an understanding that areas of dried leaves leaves and such all contributing to an overall DC for the check. I don’t rule it as a change in condition until a creature leaves that “light forest” and entered “clearing” or “heavy forest” or “lightly forested mountainside” etc. Or if it started raining or something that would change the condition too. And of course entering direct LoS would affect things. Perhaps it’s because my group has never used grids and minis, so there is no part of the floor that specifically does or does not have leave, I guess I kInda conceptualize it like how AC calculations work, if my calculation for the DC changes, an new check is required. Even if the DC is the same, the calculation changed, so new check.
Like, you know those scenes in the movies when one of the supporting cast is about to die all terrified in the woods while the cannibals (or whatever) are flitting among the trees around them? The tension builds as the cannibals toy with their food like a cat. The intended target whips first right then left trying to catch more than the briefest glimpse of movement or flash of color. That person considers making a run for it only to pause when they thing they hear some movement in that direction and pause. Finally, they hear a screening behind them turn to see their attacker charging at them looking like a crazed Neanderthal and wielding a weapon likely made from human bones before *thok,* and the screen goes dark....
I treat it like that. If the cannibals had to roll for stealth every time they tried to move from tree to tree... then they likely couldn’t “flit” (dash) around too without something like cunning action as you pointed out. And since monsters didn’t technically get Bonus Actions until recently.... And because a mysterious tribe of cannibals that lives in the forest totally sounds like “monster/NPC” kindsa folks.... And since that would technically mean I couldn’t use that concept in D&D if it worked like that... And since I’ma do it anyway... Therefore I ruled that “the trees” are cover instead of “each tree” is cover. And even the screaming charge is still “an Attacking by a creature the victim couldn’t see,” but that’s what “gives away their position” after that attack.
Its always interesting to find out how different tables apply the same rules to beat suit their concept of what those rules are representing and how they represent abstractions of reality.
(No emphasis added.) I double check and you’re right. There is not a speed reduction. I was misremembering because there is a Pace limitation when traveling stealthily. But technically that only applies while traveling, not normal movement.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
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OOC: A forest is full of trees, bushes and general undergrowth so it's all one roll and movement through it. But if the movement carries you through a meadow, you have to roll again when entering the trees on the other side. Similar to moving through a hallway, entering a room behind an enemy but the floor has a lot of random trash unlike the clear hallway. You'd need another roll the stay undetected behind the badguy if you want to move in the room.
Lightfoot Halflings are almost comical. There can be a fight going on, and they can hide behind their allies. It is obvious where they went but they cannot be targeted if they Hide successfully.
The screaming charge from stealth is surprise round.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Oethe dances forward and lets loose with a bolt from his crossbow! range 275
Attack: 20 Damage: 4
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Taslyn, roll your Guiding Bolt
Hawksley, Elyona,
You're up!
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
OOC: Hawksley if you want some unsolicited coaching, advance as far as you can this turn (30') and fire take two shots with your bow. Keep that up till you're within 150' and lose the range disadvantage. Another option would be to dash which will bring you 60' closer total but you won't be able to make any attacks because you took up your action with dashing.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Elyona continues to mutter with annoyance about rash heads as she pelts toward the gnolls.
OOC: 25' "regular" movement plus Dash action for. another 25'. It's gonna take her a while to get there....
Trying to Decide if DDB is for you? A few helpful threads: A Buyer's Guide to DDB; What I/We Bought and Why; How some DMs use DDB; A Newer Thread on Using DDB to Play
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Gotcha, I wasn’t picking up what you were putting down. Thank you.
Oh, gosh. If I made my players roll* stealth for entering or exiting a room from or to a hallways they wouldswitch games. I could get away with that once or twice per dungeon maybe, if it was a decent enough sized dungeon.
Although, that character could clearly tell that something was about to happen, so I would not have called that surprise. 🤷♂️
*
It was all of that rolling what we always played anything but D&D until 3/3.5, and even then it wasn’t really their jam. For them, all of the For them, if the game is so rules intensive that instead of “character sheet,” it requires “sheets,” then they would rather play OG WoD. I know for a fact that one of reasons they don’t hate this edition is because of the DDB sheet.** Once I finally got them over the “used to” factor and they started using the digital sheet during sessions their frustration rapidly diminished.
In their view, once a PC hits a certain point one should just know what it is or isn’t capable of and no longer feel any need to roll other than combat or special circumstances. They’re like “anti-Yureis.” Like, to them, if your game needs 3 books to play, then that’s 2 books too many. So for them, 2e wasn’t a game, it was homework. And 3 was okay... and then WotC decided they needed another half of an edition. That was when we went back to WoD. (Every book was technically a stand alone system, but they were all built on the same chassis. So once you knew the game you could skip half of each of the other books.)
**They hate the D&D paper sheet(s) so hard. And they prefer paper sheets. They used to print their PCs from DDB but still hated it. They still have all of our old ones. And you know how beat up those would get, and eventually copy over to a fresh when the HP box finally wore through from all of the erasing and writing? Not them, “patina” they call it.
Creating Epic Boons on DDB
DDB Buyers' Guide
Hardcovers, DDB & You
Content Troubleshooting