This has never come up in-game and I don't think it will for most people, but I still want to get some other opinions instead of leaving it to DM's discretion every time.
Some replicable magic items can break, if they do then what happens to the infusions?
The replicate magic item infusion allows you to replicate a magical item as an infusion but there are a lot of replicable magic items that can be broken under specific circumstances. There are no rules in Tasha's for such infusions breaking and not all items that break are completely destroyed, instead becoming nonmagical and no other infusions have stated cases where they break. I know that there are simple rules for all magic items breaking on page 141 and that some items or effects like the talon card from the deck of many things can break magical items and herein lies the problem.
So what happens when an infusion breaks? Does the nonmagical item used to craft it break but the magic remains? Can you reapply the magic to a similar item once the original is broken? Do you have to wait a full long rest before infusing again? If an item whose breaking is integral to its function is not broken, does it have to be reinfused? if an item explicitly becomes nonmagical instead of breaking, can you use that infusion again or is it lost forever? Do these infusions act exactly like other infusions and cannot be broken?
there are far more questions to ask but these are my most pressing concerns
I don't think it really matters whether the infusion gets removed by the item breaking or remains on a broken item. The Artificer just has to reinfuse a similar item after the end of the next long rest. They certainly won't completely forget how to make that infusion.
I don't think it really matters whether the infusion gets removed by the item breaking or remains on a broken item. The Artificer just has to reinfuse a similar item after the end of the next long rest. They certainly won't completely forget how to make that infusion.
Some common items like the bead of nourishment, pot of awakening and mystery key only take effect once broken. found on pages 136-140 of Xanathar's guide
My other big questions are whether the nonmagical item that has been infused is also destroyed alongside the infusion ending? For example, if I infuse a wooden staff to be a staff of birdcalls and it breaks, does it explode into a cloud of feathers or does the infusion just end, leaving the staff behind so I don't need to go out and buy another staff to infuse? The other big question being that certain consumables are inferred to be found in bulk but are not stated to be in the item's description such as walloping ammunition. So do I infuse a single arrow or can I infuse a full quiver at a time?
The infusion replicates the magic item in full, so if the magic items description includes methods that would destroy the magic item, then the infusion would cease to function. whether that destruction is intentional, such as using a consumable item like a bead of nourishment, or if the destruction is unintentional like the staff of birdcalls, if the object is destroyed and the magic lost, then the infusion ends as well.
Regarding damage, I would rule that if a magic item is destroyed via damage, the infusion would dissipate as well, but if a different DM ruled otherwise the solution would be to make a new infusion (as old items cease when you reach your limit)
My other big questions are whether the nonmagical item that has been infused is also destroyed alongside the infusion ending? For example, if I infuse a wooden staff to be a staff of birdcalls and it breaks, does it explode into a cloud of feathers or does the infusion just end, leaving the staff behind so I don't need to go out and buy another staff to infuse? The other big question being that certain consumables are inferred to be found in bulk but are not stated to be in the item's description such as walloping ammunition. So do I infuse a single arrow or can I infuse a full quiver at a time?
If your staff of bird calls turns into a cloud of feathers, you have a cloud of feathers and no staff. If you eat a bead of nourishment, the bead gets digested. And magic ammo is 1 piece at a time.
Broken items are broken, consumed items are consumed. The item, not the infusion.
My other big questions are whether the nonmagical item that has been infused is also destroyed alongside the infusion ending? For example, if I infuse a wooden staff to be a staff of birdcalls and it breaks, does it explode into a cloud of feathers or does the infusion just end, leaving the staff behind so I don't need to go out and buy another staff to infuse? The other big question being that certain consumables are inferred to be found in bulk but are not stated to be in the item's description such as walloping ammunition. So do I infuse a single arrow or can I infuse a full quiver at a time?
If your staff of bird calls turns into a cloud of feathers, you have a cloud of feathers and no staff. If you eat a bead of nourishment, the bead gets digested. And magic ammo is 1 piece at a time.
Broken items are broken, consumed items are consumed. The item, not the infusion.
I disagree. If the infusion replicates the magic item in full, then any means listed to consume or destroy the magic item would destroy the infusion on that item, otherwise the infusion is not replicating the item in full.
Broken items are broken, consumed items are consumed. The item, not the infusion.
I disagree. If the infusion replicates the magic item in full, then any means listed to consume or destroy the magic item would destroy the infusion on that item, otherwise the infusion is not replicating the item in full.
I think you are focusing too much on the wrong part and misunderstood my answer. Wether or not a broken item is still infused is irrelevant (but I agree that the infusion ends when the item is no longer a functioning item), either way that infused item can't be used anymore and the infusion must be put in a new item.
What the OP is asking is if the infusion ends instead of the item breaking. It does not.
So to clarify: The magic item's effect that destroys itself, destroys the item itself, not the infusion instead. The infusion does then end because the item is destroyed. But the item is destroyed is my point, since that was the question.
In addition, just for clarification, you do still have to wait until the end of the next long rest to recreate that infusion, and you also need a new item to infuse.
I agree with DxJxC. If you use the Staff of Birdcalls and roll a 1 once you expend the last charge, it turns into a cloud of bird feathers. That is part of the magical effect and when infusing items with these effects you either take all of it or none of it. Picking and choosing which parts of the effects apply isn't what the infusion does. Think of it like the "Verteran's Cane" turning into a longsword... how would you rule that?
With respect to recreating the infusion, I believe you have to wait until you complete your next long rest. I think the idea is that infusing objects takes time and not something an artificer can do on the fly. so to create an artificer infusion you need the time of a long rest to do so.
I think it is more of a recharge thing than a spending time thing as far as having to be a long rest is concerned, since you don't/can't spend any part of a long rest crafting...
That's more about how you roleplay the mechanics of the game than the mechanics themselves.
I think it is more of a recharge thing than a spending time thing as far as having to be a long rest is concerned, since you don't/can't spend any part of a long rest crafting...
That's more about how you roleplay the mechanics of the game than the mechanics themselves.
hmm, well that opens another set of doors. If we assume that this is a recharge... couldn't you save the "charge"? (like a battery)
say you have the "mystery key" and you use it, fails and breaks. Would you be able to make another "mystery key"? Even if we were to nitpick directly at the end of a long rest you can more or less make/break them as soon as you wake up since you have enough charges to do so.
which this opens up to Kotath's point about multiple ammunition. now i believe you can't have more than 1 of the same infusion but if this really is a "recharge" system it would make sense as soon as 1 ammo is gone you can make another as long as you haven't used up your "recharges" of the day.
I think it is more of a recharge thing than a spending time thing as far as having to be a long rest is concerned, since you don't/can't spend any part of a long rest crafting...
That's more about how you roleplay the mechanics of the game than the mechanics themselves.
hmm, well that opens another set of doors. If we assume that this is a recharge... couldn't you save the "charge"? (like a battery)
That is definitely not how the mechanics work, so I guess we'll have to add more to the explanation like:
"You can't ask a creator to 'save' (mockingly) their creativity like a battery. Creativity must be acted on in the moment it arises - preferably in the morning after 6 to 8 hours of sleep."
The clearest example I can think of regarding this question would be a bag of holding.
Tasha's clearly states that if an infusion on an item ends that is holding another item (such as a bag of holding), then all the other items spill harmlessly out in the surrounding area.
So, if a bag holding the BoH infusion were destroyed, what would happen to the items inside? If the infusion ends when the bag is destroyed, then the items inside would spill out. If the infusion doesn't end, then the items are scattered across the astral sea.
Pretty important distinction for the Armourer planning to make a MK85 Ironman suit out of a bag sewn into a tunic and some mithril full plate.
The clearest example I can think of regarding this question would be a bag of holding.
Tasha's clearly states that if an infusion on an item ends that is holding another item (such as a bag of holding), then all the other items spill harmlessly out in the surrounding area.
So, if a bag holding the BoH infusion were destroyed, what would happen to the items inside? If the infusion ends when the bag is destroyed, then the items inside would spill out. If the infusion doesn't end, then the items are scattered across the astral sea.
Pretty important distinction for the Armourer planning to make a MK85 Ironman suit out of a bag sewn into a tunic and some mithril full plate.
The last act of the bag as it is being destroyed (and therefore losing its infusion) would be to scatter its contents across the astral sea!
OK, i know i'm about 2 years late on this.. but here is my question: You can infuse more than one item at the end of a long rest. If you try to infuse more than your maximum, the infusion ends on the oldest one.. SO.. Good morning everyone (just woke from long rest). I create a Bead of Nourishment, and pop it in my mouth. I have now consumed the equivalent of a full days rations. I move on to infusion #2 ... and Infusion #3, ending the infusion of the BoN (which would be ended anyway since it was consumed) ... I'm thinking this works, but maybe I missed something.
OK, i know i'm about 2 years late on this.. but here is my question: You can infuse more than one item at the end of a long rest. If you try to infuse more than your maximum, the infusion ends on the oldest one.. SO.. Good morning everyone (just woke from long rest). I create a Bead of Nourishment, and pop it in my mouth. I have now consumed the equivalent of a full days rations. I move on to infusion #2 ... and Infusion #3, ending the infusion of the BoN (which would be ended anyway since it was consumed) ... I'm thinking this works, but maybe I missed something.
All abilities with the same trigger (end of rest) should resolve at about the same time.
Like if you tried doing this with spell slots "I have all my spell slots back, so I cast a bunch of 8-24 hour spells, then I still have all my spell slots left because it is still the end of the rest."
Yeah.. after i posted this.. i went back and re-read it ... very slowly... came to the same conclusion.. it's not that i can have only 2 infusions active at one time, it's more i can only infuse 2 items per long rest.. regardless of whether or not any of those have ended. However it's not really as cut and dried as your spell slot example, since infusions are indefinite and have no duration.. so.. after a long rest(1) I enhance my weapon, and replicate a bead of nourishment which i immediately eat. infusing my maximum of 2 items, 1 of which disappears leaving me with 1 infused item for the rest of the day... long rest(2).. create and eat another bead of nourishment... still only have ever had 2 infusions active at the same time.. create a bag of holding so at the end of the day i still have 2 active infusions... long rest(3) ... create a bead of nourishment... which immediately ends my enhanced weapon, since i would have 3 active infusions... eat the bead.. enhance weapon again... it's not as elegant as a solution to carrying rations as i had originally hoped.. but it would save your behind from starving. So, It is sort of like your spell slot example, only a little cloudier. .. However, there is of course the HUGE RAI work around on that one... Before the end of your long rest.. cast a spell (or a few i guess as long as it's not an hours worth or strenuous). THen while those spells are still in effect (assuming they have a long enough duration of course)... Long rest ends.. and you have all your spell slots back. THere is no rule about having more than your number of spell slot's worth of active spells at one time (ie a bunch of rituals as well)m but that restriction does exist for infusions.
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This has never come up in-game and I don't think it will for most people, but I still want to get some other opinions instead of leaving it to DM's discretion every time.
Some replicable magic items can break, if they do then what happens to the infusions?
The replicate magic item infusion allows you to replicate a magical item as an infusion but there are a lot of replicable magic items that can be broken under specific circumstances. There are no rules in Tasha's for such infusions breaking and not all items that break are completely destroyed, instead becoming nonmagical and no other infusions have stated cases where they break. I know that there are simple rules for all magic items breaking on page 141 and that some items or effects like the talon card from the deck of many things can break magical items and herein lies the problem.
So what happens when an infusion breaks? Does the nonmagical item used to craft it break but the magic remains? Can you reapply the magic to a similar item once the original is broken? Do you have to wait a full long rest before infusing again? If an item whose breaking is integral to its function is not broken, does it have to be reinfused? if an item explicitly becomes nonmagical instead of breaking, can you use that infusion again or is it lost forever? Do these infusions act exactly like other infusions and cannot be broken?
there are far more questions to ask but these are my most pressing concerns
So I didn't see a single replicable item that needed to be destroyed to function, but either way:
If the item breaks or is consumed it is broken/consumed. You can infuse a new item with that infusion after your next long rest.
Can you give an example?
I don't think it really matters whether the infusion gets removed by the item breaking or remains on a broken item. The Artificer just has to reinfuse a similar item after the end of the next long rest. They certainly won't completely forget how to make that infusion.
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Some common items like the bead of nourishment, pot of awakening and mystery key only take effect once broken. found on pages 136-140 of Xanathar's guide
My other big questions are whether the nonmagical item that has been infused is also destroyed alongside the infusion ending? For example, if I infuse a wooden staff to be a staff of birdcalls and it breaks, does it explode into a cloud of feathers or does the infusion just end, leaving the staff behind so I don't need to go out and buy another staff to infuse? The other big question being that certain consumables are inferred to be found in bulk but are not stated to be in the item's description such as walloping ammunition. So do I infuse a single arrow or can I infuse a full quiver at a time?
The infusion replicates the magic item in full, so if the magic items description includes methods that would destroy the magic item, then the infusion would cease to function. whether that destruction is intentional, such as using a consumable item like a bead of nourishment, or if the destruction is unintentional like the staff of birdcalls, if the object is destroyed and the magic lost, then the infusion ends as well.
Regarding damage, I would rule that if a magic item is destroyed via damage, the infusion would dissipate as well, but if a different DM ruled otherwise the solution would be to make a new infusion (as old items cease when you reach your limit)
If your staff of bird calls turns into a cloud of feathers, you have a cloud of feathers and no staff. If you eat a bead of nourishment, the bead gets digested. And magic ammo is 1 piece at a time.
Broken items are broken, consumed items are consumed. The item, not the infusion.
I disagree. If the infusion replicates the magic item in full, then any means listed to consume or destroy the magic item would destroy the infusion on that item, otherwise the infusion is not replicating the item in full.
I think you are focusing too much on the wrong part and misunderstood my answer. Wether or not a broken item is still infused is irrelevant (but I agree that the infusion ends when the item is no longer a functioning item), either way that infused item can't be used anymore and the infusion must be put in a new item.
What the OP is asking is if the infusion ends instead of the item breaking. It does not.
So to clarify: The magic item's effect that destroys itself, destroys the item itself, not the infusion instead. The infusion does then end because the item is destroyed. But the item is destroyed is my point, since that was the question.
In addition, just for clarification, you do still have to wait until the end of the next long rest to recreate that infusion, and you also need a new item to infuse.
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I agree with DxJxC. If you use the Staff of Birdcalls and roll a 1 once you expend the last charge, it turns into a cloud of bird feathers. That is part of the magical effect and when infusing items with these effects you either take all of it or none of it. Picking and choosing which parts of the effects apply isn't what the infusion does. Think of it like the "Verteran's Cane" turning into a longsword... how would you rule that?
With respect to recreating the infusion, I believe you have to wait until you complete your next long rest. I think the idea is that infusing objects takes time and not something an artificer can do on the fly. so to create an artificer infusion you need the time of a long rest to do so.
I think it is more of a recharge thing than a spending time thing as far as having to be a long rest is concerned, since you don't/can't spend any part of a long rest crafting...
That's more about how you roleplay the mechanics of the game than the mechanics themselves.
hmm, well that opens another set of doors. If we assume that this is a recharge... couldn't you save the "charge"? (like a battery)
say you have the "mystery key" and you use it, fails and breaks. Would you be able to make another "mystery key"? Even if we were to nitpick directly at the end of a long rest you can more or less make/break them as soon as you wake up since you have enough charges to do so.
which this opens up to Kotath's point about multiple ammunition. now i believe you can't have more than 1 of the same infusion but if this really is a "recharge" system it would make sense as soon as 1 ammo is gone you can make another as long as you haven't used up your "recharges" of the day.
That is definitely not how the mechanics work, so I guess we'll have to add more to the explanation like:
"You can't ask a creator to 'save' (mockingly) their creativity like a battery. Creativity must be acted on in the moment it arises - preferably in the morning after 6 to 8 hours of sleep."
The clearest example I can think of regarding this question would be a bag of holding.
Tasha's clearly states that if an infusion on an item ends that is holding another item (such as a bag of holding), then all the other items spill harmlessly out in the surrounding area.
So, if a bag holding the BoH infusion were destroyed, what would happen to the items inside? If the infusion ends when the bag is destroyed, then the items inside would spill out. If the infusion doesn't end, then the items are scattered across the astral sea.
Pretty important distinction for the Armourer planning to make a MK85 Ironman suit out of a bag sewn into a tunic and some mithril full plate.
The last act of the bag as it is being destroyed (and therefore losing its infusion) would be to scatter its contents across the astral sea!
That makes perfect sense when you word it like that.
As the Armourer in question, thanks for the warning. lol
OK, i know i'm about 2 years late on this.. but here is my question: You can infuse more than one item at the end of a long rest. If you try to infuse more than your maximum, the infusion ends on the oldest one.. SO.. Good morning everyone (just woke from long rest). I create a Bead of Nourishment, and pop it in my mouth. I have now consumed the equivalent of a full days rations. I move on to infusion #2 ... and Infusion #3, ending the infusion of the BoN (which would be ended anyway since it was consumed) ... I'm thinking this works, but maybe I missed something.
All abilities with the same trigger (end of rest) should resolve at about the same time.
Like if you tried doing this with spell slots "I have all my spell slots back, so I cast a bunch of 8-24 hour spells, then I still have all my spell slots left because it is still the end of the rest."
Yeah.. after i posted this.. i went back and re-read it ... very slowly... came to the same conclusion.. it's not that i can have only 2 infusions active at one time, it's more i can only infuse 2 items per long rest.. regardless of whether or not any of those have ended. However it's not really as cut and dried as your spell slot example, since infusions are indefinite and have no duration.. so.. after a long rest(1) I enhance my weapon, and replicate a bead of nourishment which i immediately eat. infusing my maximum of 2 items, 1 of which disappears leaving me with 1 infused item for the rest of the day... long rest(2).. create and eat another bead of nourishment... still only have ever had 2 infusions active at the same time.. create a bag of holding so at the end of the day i still have 2 active infusions... long rest(3) ... create a bead of nourishment... which immediately ends my enhanced weapon, since i would have 3 active infusions... eat the bead.. enhance weapon again... it's not as elegant as a solution to carrying rations as i had originally hoped.. but it would save your behind from starving. So, It is sort of like your spell slot example, only a little cloudier. .. However, there is of course the HUGE RAI work around on that one... Before the end of your long rest.. cast a spell (or a few i guess as long as it's not an hours worth or strenuous). THen while those spells are still in effect (assuming they have a long enough duration of course)... Long rest ends.. and you have all your spell slots back. THere is no rule about having more than your number of spell slot's worth of active spells at one time (ie a bunch of rituals as well)m but that restriction does exist for infusions.