Ok, I can see where firing a Longbow or Showbow might impose Disadvantage while firing from prone. It'd be very difficult to use a long or shortbow from prone.
Lay down in your house, find something that weighs a few pounds and you can hold in two hands, now try and raise that up while still lying on your belly. Can you "aim down sights" for the crossbow you are attempting to hold in an awkward position? No, and aiming upwards is going to be difficult from prone. It is not a handgun, nor is it a rifle. It is not impossible to do so but it is more difficult thus the disadvantage.
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"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Rules don't always have to represent our own reality - they're there for game balance.
I suspect that something happened during playtest that meant they introduced this rule.
Perhaps archery battles between PCs and monsters ended up with both sides diving onto the floor, so that they would be prone, making the other sides attacks more difficult, but gaining no penalty themselves and the designers felt this didn't have the feel that they wanted for a fantasy roleplay game, where you want your archer to feel more like Legolas.
Yup, the rules support that just fine - just means if something runs up to melee range, it has advantage to melee your prone character.
I see archer characters use cover in a similar way all the time, again totally supported by the rules. They are behind cover, so they move from behind the cover, make their attacks, then move back behind cover.
It's all reasonable and supported by the rules. :)
I don't think "Prone" in these rules represents the calm deliberate sniper positioning described above, it is more a representing of falling down or hurling yourself down to avoid an explosion. In a circumstance like that you can easily envisage the disadvantage with your awkwardly big and heavy crossbow (how would you even consider loading the damn thing?). If you wanted to represent a prepared crossbow sniper on a distant hilltop then they should have something like Cover and Hidden to represent (and actually grant in the rules) that advantage. Is the archer in question actually lying down? Maybe. But they are not suffering from the "Prone" condition.
I suspect that something happened during playtest that meant they introduced this rule.
This is an old rule; in 3.5 you couldn't use ranged weapons other than crossbows while prone. The crossbow exception was probably dropped in 5e for simplicity. I think at one point the D&D playtest had special rules for different weapons.
As someone who was in the army and had to fire from a prone position, it really doesn't change your range all that much, but it does increase your ability to make a more accurate shot, provided you have any skill at the weapon you are using. The rule is in place to prevent snipers from having to much advantage over others in the game. This doesn't prevent any home tables to homebrew up allowing. I have shot all the above weapons in Real life and yes you can fir a longbow/short bow laying on your back. Grant it isn't easy and you need a great of skill to do it with accuracy, but crossbow, even a heavy one, it is easy, since it is like firing a rifle. In fact it seemed my aim was better for being prone. As for loading a heavy crossbow while prone, that depended if it was a crank or goat's foot style loading system. Crank would be easier prone where goat's foot you'd have to roll over on your back to be able to do it properly. Of course this is all real world styles historical styles of crossbows, there are several more styles of pulling systems, I just touched on two. Personally I consider the rule a bit of tripe for crossbow usage and a feat to do it without disadvantage with regular bow, but what can we do beside homebrew if able.
As someone who was in the army and had to fire from a prone position, it really doesn't change your range all that much, but it does increase your ability to make a more accurate shot, provided you have any skill at the weapon you are using. The rule is in place to prevent snipers from having to much advantage over others in the game. ... Personally I consider the rule a bit of tripe for crossbow usage and a feat to do it without disadvantage with regular bow, but what can we do beside homebrew if able.
That's all well and good when you can just line up a shot on a distant target with few distractions, but most D&D combat involves messy close quarters skirmishes against multiple enemies. Someone that's able to pivot easily on their feet has a huge advantage over someone trying to change direction on their belly.
Unless you play a Bounty Hunter that has Double Attack, Surge and Sneak Attack combined into one. Managed to find a high and elevated position on a building across from the target. Laying down in the shadow of a chimney with Pass without a Trace in use.
Having Disadvantage on attack with a crossbow while Prone is just bullshit. I homebrewed that the Feat Crossbow Expert removes that penalty of Prone.
I also have various NPC's that accompany the group who always try to find an elevated position. Battlegrounds aren't always close corridors and hallways. Nor two dimensional. Love creating 3d battle areas. Even in ruined abbey's and such there are often stairs to higher ground for people to use. Allowing such characters to provide covering fire when the group enters and moves across the ground floor. However if someone gets within melee they are at greater risk though. So it should be a good enough trade off. It's also really nice when enemies use it against the group. Making ranged actually scary when trying to close the distance.
I suspect that something happened during playtest that meant they introduced this rule.
This is an old rule; in 3.5 you couldn't use ranged weapons other than crossbows while prone. The crossbow exception was probably dropped in 5e for simplicity. I think at one point the D&D playtest had special rules for different weapons.
I use this old third edition rule as a house rule in my games.
I'm a little late to the party on this one, but I've thought about this also.
1) I agree with InquisitiveCoder, 5e is about good generalrulesnot edge cases. Firing a bow or throwing an axe while prone should generally be at DisAdv. Pulling the trigger on a crossbow probably not, but 5e isn't concerned with edge cases it's concerned with making good general rules and players and GMs can hash out edge cases.
2) Because 5e is about good over all rules it doesn't think about firing a crossbow as just pulling the trigger. In 5e firing a crossbow is: drawing/winching the pull, loading the bolt, aiming the weapon, and pulling the trigger. 2a) I'd think only aiming and pulling the trigger wouldn't have DisAdv, but the rest of it trying to winch or pull a crossbow then load it while lying down is going to be a pain in the butt. Keep in mind you're doing all of this in 6 seconds.
3) The shortcut is standing up from Prone is half your movement. It's simple to stand up, load/fire the crossbow, then lie back down at the end of your turn.
I'm planning a character who's a rock gnome fighter using a heavy crossbow as their primary weapon, I'm inspired by ancient Chinese warfare where they had their archers sit down and fire from their feet. Because I have proficiency it will cancel out going prone's disadvantage making it a straight roll, but I will discuss with the DM about whether or not we can home brew it. Ideally I'd love for this character to be using blackpowder weapons but I don't know if it will come up in the campaign.
I'm planning a character who's a rock gnome fighter using a heavy crossbow as their primary weapon, I'm inspired by ancient Chinese warfare where they had their archers sit down and fire from their feet. Because I have proficiency it will cancel out going prone's disadvantage making it a straight roll, but I will discuss with the DM about whether or not we can home brew it. Ideally I'd love for this character to be using blackpowder weapons but I don't know if it will come up in the campaign.
Just a heads up ... a heavy crossbow is a heavy weapon.
"Heavy. Small creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls with heavy weapons. A heavy weapon's size and bulk make it too large for a Small creature to use effectively."
Gnomes are small creatures and will ALWAYS have disadvantage when firing a heavy crossbow from any position whether they have proficiency or not.
Also, having proficiency in a weapon does not cancel any form of disadvantage for firing while prone. Proficiency adds your proficiency bonus to your to hit roll. In order to cancel disadvantage you need to have something that grants advantage on the attack roll.
Mechanically, a light crossbow will likely work better for your concept of a crossbow wielding gnome than a heavy crossbow.
I agree that disadvantage for shooting a crossbow while prone seems counterintuitive. But it is far from the only counterintuitive rule in 5e. Fire spells not being able to ignite worn or carried objects bugs me at least as much for example.
By and large I just accept that is the way the game works and play on. It is easy enough to house rule an exception for crossbows if you want to though.
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Ok, I can see where firing a Longbow or Showbow might impose Disadvantage while firing from prone. It'd be very difficult to use a long or shortbow from prone.
Why does a crossbowman have the same penaltry?
Longbow and shortbow are held vertically. Crossbow is horizontal.
Lay down in your house, find something that weighs a few pounds and you can hold in two hands, now try and raise that up while still lying on your belly. Can you "aim down sights" for the crossbow you are attempting to hold in an awkward position? No, and aiming upwards is going to be difficult from prone. It is not a handgun, nor is it a rifle. It is not impossible to do so but it is more difficult thus the disadvantage.
"Where words fail, swords prevail. Where blood is spilled, my cup is filled" -Cartaphilus
"I have found the answer to the meaning of life. You ask me what the answer is? You already know what the answer to life is. You fear it more than the strike of a viper, the ravages of disease, the ire of a lover. The answer is always death. But death is a gentle mistress with a sweet embrace, and you owe her a debt of restitution. Life is not a gift, it is a loan."
Oddly enough, most snipers fire from a prone position.
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D&D Beyond FoundersRules don't always have to represent our own reality - they're there for game balance.
I suspect that something happened during playtest that meant they introduced this rule.
Perhaps archery battles between PCs and monsters ended up with both sides diving onto the floor, so that they would be prone, making the other sides attacks more difficult, but gaining no penalty themselves and the designers felt this didn't have the feel that they wanted for a fantasy roleplay game, where you want your archer to feel more like Legolas.
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I have figured this was a reality vs-play convenience rule. My ranged attacker will just stand up, fire, fire, fire and drop to prone every round.
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D&D Beyond FoundersYup, the rules support that just fine - just means if something runs up to melee range, it has advantage to melee your prone character.
I see archer characters use cover in a similar way all the time, again totally supported by the rules. They are behind cover, so they move from behind the cover, make their attacks, then move back behind cover.
It's all reasonable and supported by the rules. :)
Pun-loving nerd | Faith Elisabeth Lilley | She/Her/Hers | Profile art by Becca Golins
If you need help with homebrew, please post on the homebrew forums, where multiple staff and moderators can read your post and help you!
"We got this, no problem! I'll take the twenty on the left - you guys handle the one on the right!"🔊
I don't think "Prone" in these rules represents the calm deliberate sniper positioning described above, it is more a representing of falling down or hurling yourself down to avoid an explosion. In a circumstance like that you can easily envisage the disadvantage with your awkwardly big and heavy crossbow (how would you even consider loading the damn thing?). If you wanted to represent a prepared crossbow sniper on a distant hilltop then they should have something like Cover and Hidden to represent (and actually grant in the rules) that advantage. Is the archer in question actually lying down? Maybe. But they are not suffering from the "Prone" condition.
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As someone who was in the army and had to fire from a prone position, it really doesn't change your range all that much, but it does increase your ability to make a more accurate shot, provided you have any skill at the weapon you are using. The rule is in place to prevent snipers from having to much advantage over others in the game. This doesn't prevent any home tables to homebrew up allowing. I have shot all the above weapons in Real life and yes you can fir a longbow/short bow laying on your back. Grant it isn't easy and you need a great of skill to do it with accuracy, but crossbow, even a heavy one, it is easy, since it is like firing a rifle. In fact it seemed my aim was better for being prone. As for loading a heavy crossbow while prone, that depended if it was a crank or goat's foot style loading system. Crank would be easier prone where goat's foot you'd have to roll over on your back to be able to do it properly. Of course this is all real world styles historical styles of crossbows, there are several more styles of pulling systems, I just touched on two. Personally I consider the rule a bit of tripe for crossbow usage and a feat to do it without disadvantage with regular bow, but what can we do beside homebrew if able.
Most snipers also fire from higher ground because they are firing from a prone position, which is a disadvantage for a ranged weapon.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
That's all well and good when you can just line up a shot on a distant target with few distractions, but most D&D combat involves messy close quarters skirmishes against multiple enemies. Someone that's able to pivot easily on their feet has a huge advantage over someone trying to change direction on their belly.
The Forum Infestation (TM)
Unless you play a Bounty Hunter that has Double Attack, Surge and Sneak Attack combined into one. Managed to find a high and elevated position on a building across from the target. Laying down in the shadow of a chimney with Pass without a Trace in use.
Having Disadvantage on attack with a crossbow while Prone is just bullshit. I homebrewed that the Feat Crossbow Expert removes that penalty of Prone.
I also have various NPC's that accompany the group who always try to find an elevated position. Battlegrounds aren't always close corridors and hallways. Nor two dimensional. Love creating 3d battle areas. Even in ruined abbey's and such there are often stairs to higher ground for people to use. Allowing such characters to provide covering fire when the group enters and moves across the ground floor. However if someone gets within melee they are at greater risk though. So it should be a good enough trade off. It's also really nice when enemies use it against the group. Making ranged actually scary when trying to close the distance.
I'm not defending the rule. I'm saying it's a rule. As always, DM has final authority.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
I use this old third edition rule as a house rule in my games.
I'm a little late to the party on this one, but I've thought about this also.
1) I agree with InquisitiveCoder, 5e is about good general rules not edge cases. Firing a bow or throwing an axe while prone should generally be at DisAdv. Pulling the trigger on a crossbow probably not, but 5e isn't concerned with edge cases it's concerned with making good general rules and players and GMs can hash out edge cases.
2) Because 5e is about good over all rules it doesn't think about firing a crossbow as just pulling the trigger. In 5e firing a crossbow is: drawing/winching the pull, loading the bolt, aiming the weapon, and pulling the trigger.
2a) I'd think only aiming and pulling the trigger wouldn't have DisAdv, but the rest of it trying to winch or pull a crossbow then load it while lying down is going to be a pain in the butt. Keep in mind you're doing all of this in 6 seconds.
3) The shortcut is standing up from Prone is half your movement. It's simple to stand up, load/fire the crossbow, then lie back down at the end of your turn.
I'm planning a character who's a rock gnome fighter using a heavy crossbow as their primary weapon, I'm inspired by ancient Chinese warfare where they had their archers sit down and fire from their feet. Because I have proficiency it will cancel out going prone's disadvantage making it a straight roll, but I will discuss with the DM about whether or not we can home brew it. Ideally I'd love for this character to be using blackpowder weapons but I don't know if it will come up in the campaign.
Just a heads up ... a heavy crossbow is a heavy weapon.
"Heavy. Small creatures have disadvantage on attack rolls with heavy weapons. A heavy weapon's size and bulk make it too large for a Small creature to use effectively."
Gnomes are small creatures and will ALWAYS have disadvantage when firing a heavy crossbow from any position whether they have proficiency or not.
Also, having proficiency in a weapon does not cancel any form of disadvantage for firing while prone. Proficiency adds your proficiency bonus to your to hit roll. In order to cancel disadvantage you need to have something that grants advantage on the attack roll.
Mechanically, a light crossbow will likely work better for your concept of a crossbow wielding gnome than a heavy crossbow.
I agree that disadvantage for shooting a crossbow while prone seems counterintuitive. But it is far from the only counterintuitive rule in 5e. Fire spells not being able to ignite worn or carried objects bugs me at least as much for example.
By and large I just accept that is the way the game works and play on. It is easy enough to house rule an exception for crossbows if you want to though.