If the spell is used outside of combat, as like an idea for how to solve some problem or situation the party is in, then yes I would totally allow it to melt certain metals.
In combat, no the spell only does what it says it does - which is cause damage to a creature holding the metal object.
I allowed a PC artificer a "portable forge/crucible" homebrew magic item that he could cast heat metal on to melt other ores/metals inside, but I would not allow for the spell to melt its target directly. That would add mechanics that are not included in the spell description (presumably a melted sword/armor would cease to be those things, and the spell makes no mention of that)
RAW, it heats metal so that its red hot...no melting, no weakening, no more, no less...its that simple. Anything else is homebrew including trying to deal with the reality that some metals don't turn red before they turn liquid -- who knows, mithral and adamantine could be like aluminum, it just gets extra shiny right before it turns liquid as the last bits of oxidation burn off.
I like the idea of giving it some extra utility outside of combat.
I don't like the idea of having to know the exact metal composition of the bars in their jail cell or the chain holding up the chandelier or the linchpin in a trap mechanism. Or figuring out the DC to identify them as such. Or figuring out the line on the "metal spectrum" where melting begins and how various alloys would work. Definitely some opportunity for abuse here and it gets complicated real fast if you're trying to base it on science instead of Rule of Cool.
According to some quick googling: red hot temperatures start as low as 500°C. Gold melts above 1000°C, silver melts above 900°C, and lead melts above 600°C.
Lead is the only metal really at risk of melting from this spell, but there is a safe range. Plus, magic and all that (I mean, the metal is safe to touch as soon as the spell ends, so the metal isn't absorbing that heat).
According to some quick googling: red hot temperatures start as low as 500°C. Gold melts above 1000°C, silver melts above 900°C, and lead melts above 600°C.
Lead is the only metal really at risk of melting from this spell, but there is a safe range. Plus, magic and all that (I mean, the metal is safe to touch as soon as the spell ends, so the metal isn't absorbing that heat).
I think you forgot gallium. It melts at slightly above room temperature. (You can melt it by holding it in your hand) I would love to see that be heat metaled
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Anything is edible if you try hard enough!
I am a swimmer. If you see me running, you should run too, because it means something horrible is chasing me.
I like the idea that Heat Metal can melt things, but only after being concentrated on for its full duration. This rarely happens in combat so seems to bypass that problem!
I am curious as to how people tend to work heat metal when it comes to metals like gold, silver, lead etc.
The wording if the spell is that it heats things up to red hot, which in the cases of gold and such, means liquid.
Do you usually keep the metal as solid but really hot, or molten?
As others have mentioned, Heat Metal theoretically heats targets to about 525 degrees Celsius,which is only sufficient to melt some metals, the most common of which are Lead, Zinc, Tin, technically Bismuth (twice as abundant as gold, it's just that no-one generally has much use for it), and technically Mercury, which is already melted before you cast the spell unless it's so cold you're probably already dying.
I'll add that for many spells, Heat Metal included, it's very weird having objects be just immune to the spell all the time forever (in Heat Metal's case, the immune object in question is an object touching the metal, like if you target a coin on a table, the table is immune - RAW, the heat only affects creatures). I generally homebrew this on a case by case basis, but mechanically, as per the DMG, a metal object has some number of hit points, which is how much damage it can take until it loses integrity. I generally use the fragile amount of hp to reach the point where e.g. a metal lock is no longer functional, and the resilient amount of hp to reach the point where the target has at least gotten very soft. At double resilient, there's no question you've gotten the object to go runny, i.e. melt. Also, I generally give anything made of iron or better fire resistance (since it's apparently canon that wood hasn't got fire vulnerability), and mithral and adamantite get a damage threshold equal to their AC, meaning 20 or less fire damage in one burst does nothing to either.
According to some quick googling: red hot temperatures start as low as 500°C. Gold melts above 1000°C, silver melts above 900°C, and lead melts above 600°C.
Lead is the only metal really at risk of melting from this spell, but there is a safe range. Plus, magic and all that (I mean, the metal is safe to touch as soon as the spell ends, so the metal isn't absorbing that heat).
a 1000x this. Trying to pull real physics and chemistry to explain D&D magic is a fool's errand 99.9% of the time (and is questionable even when magic isn't involved). Magic is magic, it by default doesn't need to follow the rules of chemistry or physics to function. The targeted metal could get to 10000 Celsius under the spell and stay intact, simply because the spell doesn't say it is melted, destroyed, or changed at all. Then it can immediately cool down, because magic.
Spells transmit no force (unless the text says they do), Fireballs spread fully around corners (physics would indicate no), catapult stops immediately at 90 feet with no indicated descent, and sound damage doesn't hurt the caster, despite them being the closest creature to the sounds source.
(I mean, the metal is safe to touch as soon as the spell ends, so the metal isn't absorbing that heat).
That's a good point to remember if anyone tries the "Why isn't it melting, science says argle bargle" line.
The metal may be radiating enough heat to do damage, but it's purely on the surface.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
But what about other metal touching that metal? The metal crucible to melt gold, etc, suggested above, for example?
is it in the spell description? No, saw RAW is no imo because you're just assuming the spell effect (which is magical heat) is transferable to objects beyond what the spell description allows. The spell effect is limited to a creature.
As others have mentioned, Heat Metal theoretically heats targets to about 525 degrees Celsius,which is only sufficient to melt some metals, ...
i don't agree with this either. RAW completely aside, heat metal does not heat to a specific temperature - the spell would heat the target metal to whatever temperature that specific metal turns red at. So if you cast it on an iron weapon, it'd be heated to a different temperature than if you cast it on a copper object, which would be a different temp than if cast on a lead object.
According to some quick googling: red hot temperatures start as low as 500°C. Gold melts above 1000°C, silver melts above 900°C, and lead melts above 600°C.
Lead is the only metal really at risk of melting from this spell, but there is a safe range. Plus, magic and all that (I mean, the metal is safe to touch as soon as the spell ends, so the metal isn't absorbing that heat).
a 1000x this. Trying to pull real physics and chemistry to explain D&D magic is a fool's errand 99.9% of the time (and is questionable even when magic isn't involved). Magic is magic, it by default doesn't need to follow the rules of chemistry or physics to function. The targeted metal could get to 10000 Celsius under the spell and stay intact, simply because the spell doesn't say it is melted, destroyed, or changed at all. Then it can immediately cool down, because magic.
Spells transmit no force (unless the text says they do), Fireballs spread fully around corners (physics would indicate no), catapult stops immediately at 90 feet with no indicated descent, and sound damage doesn't hurt the caster, despite them being the closest creature to the sounds source.
While I agree with the basic idea here it really misses a valid point - our world runs on physics and chemistry ( even if you don’t understand the details) and your “common sense” takes in a form of those rules that you think with and reason with. Throw them completely out and you have complete chaos. It could just as easily be that heat metal isn’t really a transmutation spell but is really a charm and illusion spell - it creates the illusion of glowing red hot metal and the charm is your psychosomatic reaction to seeing red hot metal that you know should be burning hot so you feel it and try to get it off before it burns you too badly. This would also explain the coin does no damage to the desk it’s on etc. it’s just that the D&D world(s) have never recognized that that is what is really happening. Or may be it is a transmutation spell that heats up to the red temp of each individual metal but only transfers it to flesh with the magic. In the end it’s your DMs decision.
Regarding "the metal heats up to whatever temperature it turns red at", you're in the melting camp, as lead melts before it turns red!
Regarding the effects of heated metal on other things, I would rule that it can be used as a utility spell for starting fires, heating a crucible, and so forth. I'd probably rule that it needs to be used every turn for the minute duration to work, so it would be largely useless in combat (unless there was oil or something equally flammable!)
keep in mind that oil (vegetable oil ) has an auto ignition temperature of 795 F so if yoou limit the heat metal to 500-550 then it will never ignite. yes celulose (wood, paper, cotton cloth) has an ignition temperature of 451 F but it also has a much larger specific heat so the energy needed to heat a chunk of metal to 550 may very well not be enough to heat a similar sized chunk of wood or paper to 451F. oooppps sorry there I go using science again in a magic world.
I am curious as to how people tend to work heat metal when it comes to metals like gold, silver, lead etc.
The wording if the spell is that it heats things up to red hot, which in the cases of gold and such, means liquid.
Do you usually keep the metal as solid but really hot, or molten?
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
The metal just gets really hot, it doesn't melt.
I never have metal melt, for NPC nor PCs alike.
If the spell is used outside of combat, as like an idea for how to solve some problem or situation the party is in, then yes I would totally allow it to melt certain metals.
In combat, no the spell only does what it says it does - which is cause damage to a creature holding the metal object.
I allowed a PC artificer a "portable forge/crucible" homebrew magic item that he could cast heat metal on to melt other ores/metals inside, but I would not allow for the spell to melt its target directly. That would add mechanics that are not included in the spell description (presumably a melted sword/armor would cease to be those things, and the spell makes no mention of that)
RAW, it heats metal so that its red hot...no melting, no weakening, no more, no less...its that simple. Anything else is homebrew including trying to deal with the reality that some metals don't turn red before they turn liquid -- who knows, mithral and adamantine could be like aluminum, it just gets extra shiny right before it turns liquid as the last bits of oxidation burn off.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
I like the idea of giving it some extra utility outside of combat.
I don't like the idea of having to know the exact metal composition of the bars in their jail cell or the chain holding up the chandelier or the linchpin in a trap mechanism. Or figuring out the DC to identify them as such. Or figuring out the line on the "metal spectrum" where melting begins and how various alloys would work. Definitely some opportunity for abuse here and it gets complicated real fast if you're trying to base it on science instead of Rule of Cool.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
According to some quick googling: red hot temperatures start as low as 500°C. Gold melts above 1000°C, silver melts above 900°C, and lead melts above 600°C.
Lead is the only metal really at risk of melting from this spell, but there is a safe range. Plus, magic and all that (I mean, the metal is safe to touch as soon as the spell ends, so the metal isn't absorbing that heat).
I think you forgot gallium. It melts at slightly above room temperature. (You can melt it by holding it in your hand) I would love to see that be heat metaled
Anything is edible if you try hard enough!
I am a swimmer. If you see me running, you should run too, because it means something horrible is chasing me.
I like the idea that Heat Metal can melt things, but only after being concentrated on for its full duration. This rarely happens in combat so seems to bypass that problem!
As others have mentioned, Heat Metal theoretically heats targets to about 525 degrees Celsius,which is only sufficient to melt some metals, the most common of which are Lead, Zinc, Tin, technically Bismuth (twice as abundant as gold, it's just that no-one generally has much use for it), and technically Mercury, which is already melted before you cast the spell unless it's so cold you're probably already dying.
I'll add that for many spells, Heat Metal included, it's very weird having objects be just immune to the spell all the time forever (in Heat Metal's case, the immune object in question is an object touching the metal, like if you target a coin on a table, the table is immune - RAW, the heat only affects creatures). I generally homebrew this on a case by case basis, but mechanically, as per the DMG, a metal object has some number of hit points, which is how much damage it can take until it loses integrity. I generally use the fragile amount of hp to reach the point where e.g. a metal lock is no longer functional, and the resilient amount of hp to reach the point where the target has at least gotten very soft. At double resilient, there's no question you've gotten the object to go runny, i.e. melt. Also, I generally give anything made of iron or better fire resistance (since it's apparently canon that wood hasn't got fire vulnerability), and mithral and adamantite get a damage threshold equal to their AC, meaning 20 or less fire damage in one burst does nothing to either.
a 1000x this. Trying to pull real physics and chemistry to explain D&D magic is a fool's errand 99.9% of the time (and is questionable even when magic isn't involved). Magic is magic, it by default doesn't need to follow the rules of chemistry or physics to function. The targeted metal could get to 10000 Celsius under the spell and stay intact, simply because the spell doesn't say it is melted, destroyed, or changed at all. Then it can immediately cool down, because magic.
Spells transmit no force (unless the text says they do), Fireballs spread fully around corners (physics would indicate no), catapult stops immediately at 90 feet with no indicated descent, and sound damage doesn't hurt the caster, despite them being the closest creature to the sounds source.
That's a good point to remember if anyone tries the "Why isn't it melting, science says argle bargle" line.
The metal may be radiating enough heat to do damage, but it's purely on the surface.
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
is it in the spell description? No, saw RAW is no imo because you're just assuming the spell effect (which is magical heat) is transferable to objects beyond what the spell description allows. The spell effect is limited to a creature.
I personally would be open to it though.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
i don't agree with this either. RAW completely aside, heat metal does not heat to a specific temperature - the spell would heat the target metal to whatever temperature that specific metal turns red at. So if you cast it on an iron weapon, it'd be heated to a different temperature than if you cast it on a copper object, which would be a different temp than if cast on a lead object.
Guide to the Five Factions (PWYW)
Deck of Decks
While I agree with the basic idea here it really misses a valid point - our world runs on physics and chemistry ( even if you don’t understand the details) and your “common sense” takes in a form of those rules that you think with and reason with. Throw them completely out and you have complete chaos. It could just as easily be that heat metal isn’t really a transmutation spell but is really a charm and illusion spell - it creates the illusion of glowing red hot metal and the charm is your psychosomatic reaction to seeing red hot metal that you know should be burning hot so you feel it and try to get it off before it burns you too badly. This would also explain the coin does no damage to the desk it’s on etc. it’s just that the D&D world(s) have never recognized that that is what is really happening. Or may be it is a transmutation spell that heats up to the red temp of each individual metal but only transfers it to flesh with the magic. In the end it’s your DMs decision.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Thank you all for the feedback!
Regarding "the metal heats up to whatever temperature it turns red at", you're in the melting camp, as lead melts before it turns red!
Regarding the effects of heated metal on other things, I would rule that it can be used as a utility spell for starting fires, heating a crucible, and so forth. I'd probably rule that it needs to be used every turn for the minute duration to work, so it would be largely useless in combat (unless there was oil or something equally flammable!)
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
DM's Guild Releases on This Thread Or check them all out on DMs Guild!
DrivethruRPG Releases on This Thread - latest release: My Character is a Werewolf: balanced rules for Lycanthropy!
I have started discussing/reviewing 3rd party D&D content on Substack - stay tuned for semi-regular posts!
keep in mind that oil (vegetable oil ) has an auto ignition temperature of 795 F so if yoou limit the heat metal to 500-550 then it will never ignite. yes celulose (wood, paper, cotton cloth) has an ignition temperature of 451 F but it also has a much larger specific heat so the energy needed to heat a chunk of metal to 550 may very well not be enough to heat a similar sized chunk of wood or paper to 451F. oooppps sorry there I go using science again in a magic world.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.