If, say, an artificer uses their action to magically tinker an object of the size of a stick or a stone to light up, any caster may cast light on something similar and anyone else might light something like a torch, what are the parameters/potentials for the object being thrown?
The combat rules say that, in Other Activity on Your Turn, you can kick a stone or throw a switch as "examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action". A caster may have selected a suitable object for throwing. Are there any guidelines for how far it might go and with what accuracy?
Not sure there are any written guidelines: I think improvise weapons have a 20 ft range so no farther than that.
Object interaction so no attack/can't hit anything.
I'd probably houserule something like location of your choice within 10 ft, maybe roll a d4 if tossing between 10 and 20 ft (pick directions from targeted square based on the roll for the object to land reflecting no time taken to aim)
Edit: with a bonus action or action I'd likely give more range and remove the randomness to reflect taking the time to properly aim/throw
If, say, an artificer uses their action to magically tinker an object of the size of a stick or a stone to light up, any caster may cast light on something similar and anyone else might light something like a torch, what are the parameters/potentials for the object being thrown?
The combat rules say that, in Other Activity on Your Turn, you can kick a stone or throw a switch as "examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action". A caster may have selected a suitable object for throwing. Are there any guidelines for how far it might go and with what accuracy?
Barring rules to the contrary, same way a vial of acid works: range 20 feet and infinite accuracy provided you're only trying to hit a target space. That said, throwing things isn't in that list of item interactions, and as a DM, I'd make you use the Attack action to throw things.
This is in the area of DM discretion/judgement. There are far too many objects of different sizes and shapes, characters have different strengths and skills, and the action that the character is trying to take is also relevant to determining how much time and effort the interaction is taking. As a result, with all those variables, it is up to the DM to rule on what happens.
Here is how it should go.
1) The character says "I want to pull out my rock with continual light cast on it and throw it".
2) DM considers the rules and the desired action. Pulling out your rock will require your free object interaction. If you just want to drop it on the ground that is free, if you want to toss it on the ground within 10' it will require your bonus action but if you want to try to throw it some distance and aim it, it will require your action. You could throw it as far as 50' with a proper throw. (DM decides the distances based on the size and shape of the rock and the strength of the character involved - 10' and 50' are for a small rock weighting ~100g? DM makes up these numbers depending on circumstances). The DM may require a to hit roll or a skill check if the character is trying to hit a specific location.
3) Player decides which option the character wants to pursue
a) do something else since the character knows that pulling out the rock will take too long
b) character pulls out the rock and tosses it on the ground within 10' for the cost of a bonus action
c) Character pulls out the rock and aims it up to 50' away at the cost of an action.
------
As a general rule, if what the character is throwing is going to cause damage or be an attack then it will take an action. For example, throwing alchemist's fire, placing caltrops or ball bearings all require an action and may require a to hit roll or skill check depending on circumstances.
Alchemist's Fire. This sticky, adhesive fluid ignites when exposed to air. As an action, you can throw this flask up to 20 feet, shattering it on impact. Make a ranged attack against a creature or object, treating the alchemist's fire as an improvised weapon.
Ball Bearings. As an action, you can spill these tiny metal balls from their pouch to cover a level, square area that is 10 feet on a side. A creature moving across the covered area must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or fall prone.
Caltrops. As an action, you can spread a bag of caltrops to cover a square area that is 5 feet on a side.
Oil. Oil usually comes in a clay flask that holds 1 pint. As an action, you can splash the oil in this flask onto a creature within 5 feet of you or throw it up to 20 feet, shattering it on impact. Make a ranged attack against a target creature or object, treating the oil as an improvised weapon.
Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon.
A dagger can be thrown up to 60'.
Based on that, as a rule of thumb, I'd allow a character to throw an object with similar characteristics to a dagger up to about 60'. (A dagger isn't that aerodynamic for example but it is made of harder dense material). However, that would not allow an attack roll to be made unless the object was similar enough to a dagger or a dart so that it could be considered one under the improvised weapons rules.
In any case, throwing the object a significant distance and trying to hit a specific target would require both the character's action and likely a to hit roll depending on circumstances.
A lot of DM rulings come from picking similar sections of the rules, combining it with some common sense and reasonable judgement and then applying it to the novel situations and ideas that your players come up with.
To throw an object the proper rule would be as a improvised weapon attack. So, its basically a weapon attack, but with a object without proper properties.
The rule on improvised weapons says:
Often, an Improvised Weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her Proficiency Bonus.
An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee Attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet.
What I think is the best way to rule that is first to evaluate the properties of the chosen object to compare it with an actual weapon than apply any limitations it must have. For exemple:
A cleaver isn't described in the sources as a weapon and would rely on improvised weapon attacks, however it seems to me pretty much usable as a handaxe (light/trhown=20/60ft) and I would say a character with proficiency (and only) in handaxes would throw it as easely as it was one (adding its bonus and using the handaxe properties).
The same for a flag pole with a pointed nip could be pretty close to a javelin, provided it have a matching size and weight, I would allow a proficient char to use the 30/120ft range of a thrown javelin and 1d6+str.or.dex piercing dmg.
A handsize stone don't match well with any weapon, but its pretty plausable that it can be thrown so I would rule it without proficiency (unless the char have the Tavern Brawler feat) with 20/60 range and 1d4 bludgeoning dmg.
A woden board couldn't be properly thrown in a weaponizing way, so it would be just a improvised weapon without thrown property and a 1d4 bludgeoning dmg. Edit: in fact a char would be able to thrown anything as a improvised weapon, so I would allow it as a standard improvised weapon.
Well, to determine if it matches with an actual weapon and what weapon properties it may have as a improvised weapon have is up to the DM.
Now. about the Other Activity on Your Turn that you mention:
It can't be used to a caster to throw a improvised weapon. To use a object as a improvised weapon and weaponizing it a character must to use an Attack Action. The other activity mention stands only for quick interactions that don't demands the character to aim and hit for example.
You can kick a rock while moving if you want, but you must to use an attack action if you want to aim and kick it in a proper way to hit and harm some foe as an improvised weapon.
However, if you mean not as an attack, I would say you can treat as such, but giving a proper AC to the target. For exemple, if its aiming to a barrel, make it an attack against the barrel (AC 15 acording to DMG).
In either case, to aim and throw it properly a char would always need an action (or a bonus action if its not an attack, if determinated by the DM)
If, say, an artificer uses their action to magically tinker an object of the size of a stick or a stone to light up, any caster may cast light on something similar and anyone else might light something like a torch, what are the parameters/potentials for the object being thrown?
The combat rules say that, in Other Activity on Your Turn, you can kick a stone or throw a switch as "examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action". A caster may have selected a suitable object for throwing. Are there any guidelines for how far it might go and with what accuracy?
The reference to pull, throw or kick in the Object interaction are used widely and not terms referring to attack. You can't freely attack someone in any meaningful way by kicking a rock as your free item intereaction if it's what you were asking.
You can attack with items such as an acid vial by using the Use an Item action, but it's when it's done as an action (or a bonus action with Fast Hand) only
If, say, an artificer uses their action to magically tinker an object of the size of a stick or a stone to light up, any caster may cast light on something similar and anyone else might light something like a torch, what are the parameters/potentials for the object being thrown?
The combat rules say that, in Other Activity on Your Turn, you can kick a stone or throw a switch as "examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action". A caster may have selected a suitable object for throwing. Are there any guidelines for how far it might go and with what accuracy?
The reference to pull, throw or kick in the Object interaction are used widely and not terms referring to attack. You can't freely attack someone in any meaningful way by kicking a rock as your free item intereaction if it's what you were asking.
You can attack with items such as an acid vial by using the Use an Item action, but it's when it's done as an action (or a bonus action with Fast Hand) only
As a player, I'm wondering about parameters with an ongoing problem of an opponent that tries to drag party members into dim light before porting away. A lot of this is currently theoretical as we don't have an artificer or anyone with a light cantrip and are currently on an underwater mission with our DM ruling that create bonfire and other non-light specific fire spells will cast light but only when above the water surface.
As a player, I'm wondering about parameters with an ongoing problem of an opponent that tries to drag party members into dim light before porting away. A lot of this is currently theoretical as we don't have an artificer or anyone with a light cantrip and are currently on an underwater mission with our DM ruling that create bonfire and other non-light specific fire spells will cast light but only when above the water surface.
I'm assuming from this you want to throw a light source (a stick or stone or similar) to the area another party member has been dragged into, or perhaps throw it to the other character?
There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule for throwing objects outside of attacking so it probably falls under Improvising an Action at your DM's discretion. Normally I would suggest a DEX check if you're trying for accuracy, but if you're underwater it might be a STR check because of the water resistance.
As a player, I'm wondering about parameters with an ongoing problem of an opponent that tries to drag party members into dim light before porting away. A lot of this is currently theoretical as we don't have an artificer or anyone with a light cantrip and are currently on an underwater mission with our DM ruling that create bonfire and other non-light specific fire spells will cast light but only when above the water surface.
I'm assuming from this you want to throw a light source (a stick or stone or similar) to the area another party member has been dragged into, or perhaps throw it to the other character?
There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule for throwing objects outside of attacking so it probably falls under Improvising an Action at your DM's discretion. Normally I would suggest a DEX check if you're trying for accuracy, but if you're underwater it might be a STR check because of the water resistance.
When making a melee weapon attack, a creature that doesn't have a swimming speed (either natural or granted by magic) has disadvantage on the attack roll unless the weapon is a dagger, javelin, shortsword, spear, or trident.
A ranged weapon attack automatically misses a target beyond the weapon's normal range. Even against a target within normal range, the attack roll has disadvantage unless the weapon is a crossbow, a net, or a weapon that is thrown like a javelin (including a spear, trident, or dart).
So you could throw a stone as an improvised weapon ranged attack, where a Hit means it reaches the person you want to catch it, but it would be at disadvantage.
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Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
As a player, I'm wondering about parameters with an ongoing problem of an opponent that tries to drag party members into dim light before porting away. A lot of this is currently theoretical as we don't have an artificer or anyone with a light cantrip and are currently on an underwater mission with our DM ruling that create bonfire and other non-light specific fire spells will cast light but only when above the water surface.
I'm assuming from this you want to throw a light source (a stick or stone or similar) to the area another party member has been dragged into, or perhaps throw it to the other character?
There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule for throwing objects outside of attacking so it probably falls under Improvising an Action at your DM's discretion. Normally I would suggest a DEX check if you're trying for accuracy, but if you're underwater it might be a STR check because of the water resistance.
In this specific case, if that opponent were to track us down now, our options would be limited. The opponent targetted my light emitting circle of the stars druid attempting to literally knock his lights out. The barbarian with a light-emitting axe might focus on grappling to prevent a port away. Above the water level, we'll also have options like create bonfire and torches and, following our first encounter, I could use locate creature once per long rest.
Apart from this I'm generally curious how the situation might work with an artificer. In most situations, I guess this would be most relevant out of combat so that, say, a magically tinkered object could be thrown 60 ft to continuously emit a non-verbal sound for 10 ft. Perhaps it's the situation of the druid that got me thinking more about combat.
I like the idea, DM permitting, of using object interaction to throw a 1 to 5 pound object into a suitable space and using catapult to do damage to the first creature to fail a dex saving throw in a 90 ft line.
I like the idea, DM permitting, of using object interaction to throw a 1 to 5 pound object into a suitable space and using catapult to do damage to the first creature to fail a dex saving throw in a 90 ft line.
Why?
I mean, if you have the "cast a spell" action to cast the catapult spell (in its limit) and have a "improvised weapon attack" rule if you want to throw it by hand, why would you need to homebrew the "interact with object" action to do it instead?
I like the idea, DM permitting, of using object interaction to throw a 1 to 5 pound object into a suitable space and using catapult to do damage to the first creature to fail a dex saving throw in a 90 ft line.
Why?
I mean, if you have the "cast a spell" action to cast the catapult spell (in its limit) and have a "improvised weapon attack" rule if you want to throw it by hand, why would you need to homebrew the "interact with object" action to do it instead?
An Improvised Weapon does 1d4 damage +/- whatever damage mod an intelligence or wisdom based caster may have, even if they hit.
Catapult does 3d8 damage and, if the first creature in line makes their dex save, the object has a similar chance to hit the next person in a line up of up to 90 ft in length. For the starting position of the object, a caster could select an object that was already suitably positioned or they could either carry or throw a suitably sized object into such a position. Throwing the object may, for instance, allow a caster to remain hidden or out of a physical attack range of opponents.
I think people are having a hard time understanding that OP is talking about throwing an object just to reposition it, not to make any kind of attack. If I'm throwing a beanbag, my technique and focus are going to be very different depending on whether I'm trying to hit someone or just trying to chuck it down to the end of the hallway. I think the latter does fall under Interact, but I also think it's reasonable for the DM to introduce some randomness in the landing spot beyond 30 feet or so based on the object's weight and properties.
It's true that you need to line up the object for the catapult spell in order to get multiple chances to land the hit, similar to lightning bolt. I think tossing an object a short distance to that purpose would be an appropriate use of Interact, as would tossing a light-emitting rock into a particular square to illuminate an area.
I'm wondering how throwing might work with the combat rules for Interacting with Objects Around You.
If, say, an artificer uses their action to magically tinker an object of the size of a stick or a stone to light up, any caster may cast light on something similar and anyone else might light something like a torch, what are the parameters/potentials for the object being thrown?
The combat rules say that, in Other Activity on Your Turn, you can kick a stone or throw a switch as "examples of the sorts of thing you can do in tandem with your movement and action". A caster may have selected a suitable object for throwing. Are there any guidelines for how far it might go and with what accuracy?
Not sure there are any written guidelines: I think improvise weapons have a 20 ft range so no farther than that.
Object interaction so no attack/can't hit anything.
I'd probably houserule something like location of your choice within 10 ft, maybe roll a d4 if tossing between 10 and 20 ft (pick directions from targeted square based on the roll for the object to land reflecting no time taken to aim)
Edit: with a bonus action or action I'd likely give more range and remove the randomness to reflect taking the time to properly aim/throw
Barring rules to the contrary, same way a vial of acid works: range 20 feet and infinite accuracy provided you're only trying to hit a target space. That said, throwing things isn't in that list of item interactions, and as a DM, I'd make you use the Attack action to throw things.
This is in the area of DM discretion/judgement. There are far too many objects of different sizes and shapes, characters have different strengths and skills, and the action that the character is trying to take is also relevant to determining how much time and effort the interaction is taking. As a result, with all those variables, it is up to the DM to rule on what happens.
Here is how it should go.
1) The character says "I want to pull out my rock with continual light cast on it and throw it".
2) DM considers the rules and the desired action. Pulling out your rock will require your free object interaction. If you just want to drop it on the ground that is free, if you want to toss it on the ground within 10' it will require your bonus action but if you want to try to throw it some distance and aim it, it will require your action. You could throw it as far as 50' with a proper throw. (DM decides the distances based on the size and shape of the rock and the strength of the character involved - 10' and 50' are for a small rock weighting ~100g? DM makes up these numbers depending on circumstances). The DM may require a to hit roll or a skill check if the character is trying to hit a specific location.
3) Player decides which option the character wants to pursue
a) do something else since the character knows that pulling out the rock will take too long
b) character pulls out the rock and tosses it on the ground within 10' for the cost of a bonus action
c) Character pulls out the rock and aims it up to 50' away at the cost of an action.
------
As a general rule, if what the character is throwing is going to cause damage or be an attack then it will take an action. For example, throwing alchemist's fire, placing caltrops or ball bearings all require an action and may require a to hit roll or skill check depending on circumstances.
Alchemist's Fire. This sticky, adhesive fluid ignites when exposed to air. As an action, you can throw this flask up to 20 feet, shattering it on impact. Make a ranged attack against a creature or object, treating the alchemist's fire as an improvised weapon.
Ball Bearings. As an action, you can spill these tiny metal balls from their pouch to cover a level, square area that is 10 feet on a side. A creature moving across the covered area must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity saving throw or fall prone.
Caltrops. As an action, you can spread a bag of caltrops to cover a square area that is 5 feet on a side.
Oil. Oil usually comes in a clay flask that holds 1 pint. As an action, you can splash the oil in this flask onto a creature within 5 feet of you or throw it up to 20 feet, shattering it on impact. Make a ranged attack against a target creature or object, treating the oil as an improvised weapon.
Thrown. If a weapon has the thrown property, you can throw the weapon to make a ranged attack. If the weapon is a melee weapon, you use the same ability modifier for that attack roll and damage roll that you would use for a melee attack with the weapon.
A dagger can be thrown up to 60'.
Based on that, as a rule of thumb, I'd allow a character to throw an object with similar characteristics to a dagger up to about 60'. (A dagger isn't that aerodynamic for example but it is made of harder dense material). However, that would not allow an attack roll to be made unless the object was similar enough to a dagger or a dart so that it could be considered one under the improvised weapons rules.
In any case, throwing the object a significant distance and trying to hit a specific target would require both the character's action and likely a to hit roll depending on circumstances.
A lot of DM rulings come from picking similar sections of the rules, combining it with some common sense and reasonable judgement and then applying it to the novel situations and ideas that your players come up with.
To throw an object the proper rule would be as a improvised weapon attack. So, its basically a weapon attack, but with a object without proper properties.
The rule on improvised weapons says:
Often, an Improvised Weapon is similar to an actual weapon and can be treated as such. For example, a table leg is akin to a club. At the GM’s option, a character proficient with a weapon can use a similar object as if it were that weapon and use his or her Proficiency Bonus.
An object that bears no resemblance to a weapon deals 1d4 damage (the GM assigns a damage type appropriate to the object). If a character uses a ranged weapon to make a melee Attack, or throws a melee weapon that does not have the thrown property, it also deals 1d4 damage. An improvised thrown weapon has a normal range of 20 feet and a long range of 60 feet.
What I think is the best way to rule that is first to evaluate the properties of the chosen object to compare it with an actual weapon than apply any limitations it must have. For exemple:
A cleaver isn't described in the sources as a weapon and would rely on improvised weapon attacks, however it seems to me pretty much usable as a handaxe (light/trhown=20/60ft) and I would say a character with proficiency (and only) in handaxes would throw it as easely as it was one (adding its bonus and using the handaxe properties).
The same for a flag pole with a pointed nip could be pretty close to a javelin, provided it have a matching size and weight, I would allow a proficient char to use the 30/120ft range of a thrown javelin and 1d6+str.or.dex piercing dmg.
A handsize stone don't match well with any weapon, but its pretty plausable that it can be thrown so I would rule it without proficiency (unless the char have the Tavern Brawler feat) with 20/60 range and 1d4 bludgeoning dmg.
A woden board couldn't be properly thrown in a weaponizing way, so it would be just a improvised weapon without thrown property and a 1d4 bludgeoning dmg. Edit: in fact a char would be able to thrown anything as a improvised weapon, so I would allow it as a standard improvised weapon.
Well, to determine if it matches with an actual weapon and what weapon properties it may have as a improvised weapon have is up to the DM.
Now. about the Other Activity on Your Turn that you mention:
It can't be used to a caster to throw a improvised weapon. To use a object as a improvised weapon and weaponizing it a character must to use an Attack Action. The other activity mention stands only for quick interactions that don't demands the character to aim and hit for example.
You can kick a rock while moving if you want, but you must to use an attack action if you want to aim and kick it in a proper way to hit and harm some foe as an improvised weapon.
However, if you mean not as an attack, I would say you can treat as such, but giving a proper AC to the target. For exemple, if its aiming to a barrel, make it an attack against the barrel (AC 15 acording to DMG).
In either case, to aim and throw it properly a char would always need an action (or a bonus action if its not an attack, if determinated by the DM)
The reference to pull, throw or kick in the Object interaction are used widely and not terms referring to attack. You can't freely attack someone in any meaningful way by kicking a rock as your free item intereaction if it's what you were asking.
You can attack with items such as an acid vial by using the Use an Item action, but it's when it's done as an action (or a bonus action with Fast Hand) only
As a player, I'm wondering about parameters with an ongoing problem of an opponent that tries to drag party members into dim light before porting away. A lot of this is currently theoretical as we don't have an artificer or anyone with a light cantrip and are currently on an underwater mission with our DM ruling that create bonfire and other non-light specific fire spells will cast light but only when above the water surface.
I'm assuming from this you want to throw a light source (a stick or stone or similar) to the area another party member has been dragged into, or perhaps throw it to the other character?
There doesn't seem to be a hard and fast rule for throwing objects outside of attacking so it probably falls under Improvising an Action at your DM's discretion. Normally I would suggest a DEX check if you're trying for accuracy, but if you're underwater it might be a STR check because of the water resistance.
If it's underwater, you use the rules for Underwater Combat:
So you could throw a stone as an improvised weapon ranged attack, where a Hit means it reaches the person you want to catch it, but it would be at disadvantage.
Helpful rewriter of Japanese->English translation and delver into software codebases (she/e/they)
In this specific case, if that opponent were to track us down now, our options would be limited. The opponent targetted my light emitting circle of the stars druid attempting to literally knock his lights out. The barbarian with a light-emitting axe might focus on grappling to prevent a port away. Above the water level, we'll also have options like create bonfire and torches and, following our first encounter, I could use locate creature once per long rest.
Apart from this I'm generally curious how the situation might work with an artificer. In most situations, I guess this would be most relevant out of combat so that, say, a magically tinkered object could be thrown 60 ft to continuously emit a non-verbal sound for 10 ft. Perhaps it's the situation of the druid that got me thinking more about combat.
wierd
I like the idea, DM permitting, of using object interaction to throw a 1 to 5 pound object into a suitable space and using catapult to do damage to the first creature to fail a dex saving throw in a 90 ft line.
Why?
I mean, if you have the "cast a spell" action to cast the catapult spell (in its limit) and have a "improvised weapon attack" rule if you want to throw it by hand, why would you need to homebrew the "interact with object" action to do it instead?
An Improvised Weapon does 1d4 damage +/- whatever damage mod an intelligence or wisdom based caster may have, even if they hit.
Catapult does 3d8 damage and, if the first creature in line makes their dex save, the object has a similar chance to hit the next person in a line up of up to 90 ft in length. For the starting position of the object, a caster could select an object that was already suitably positioned or they could either carry or throw a suitably sized object into such a position. Throwing the object may, for instance, allow a caster to remain hidden or out of a physical attack range of opponents.
I think people are having a hard time understanding that OP is talking about throwing an object just to reposition it, not to make any kind of attack. If I'm throwing a beanbag, my technique and focus are going to be very different depending on whether I'm trying to hit someone or just trying to chuck it down to the end of the hallway. I think the latter does fall under Interact, but I also think it's reasonable for the DM to introduce some randomness in the landing spot beyond 30 feet or so based on the object's weight and properties.
It's true that you need to line up the object for the catapult spell in order to get multiple chances to land the hit, similar to lightning bolt. I think tossing an object a short distance to that purpose would be an appropriate use of Interact, as would tossing a light-emitting rock into a particular square to illuminate an area.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm