So, last saturday we were fighting a mummy. My pc is a lvl 11 Duergar Fighter, and he has the Blind Fighting, fighting style from Tasha's.
In one turn, the mummy used its Dreadful Glare ability on me, and I failed the saving throw so I became frightened. The thing is that I wanted to attack it but my DM told me that because I was frightened, I had disadvantage on my attack rolls (And the mummy was affected by our druid's faerie fire).
I told him, "considering that the mummy needs to be on my line of sight, if I close my eyes that wouldn't count, right?", he agreed with me but told that I had disadvantage anyway because I was considered blinded.
Becase it wasn't a good time to enter a discussion right in the middle of the combat, I told him for us to research about it later to get an answer.
My question for anyone that could help us, is: Considering that Bling Fighting says "effectively see anything that isn't behind total cover, even if you're blinded or in darkness", would the frightened condition of "disadvantage on Ability Checks and Attack rolls while the source of its fear is within Line of Sight" be still valid if I close my eyes?
Frightened
A frightened creature has disadvantage on Ability Checks and Attack rolls while the source of its fear is within Line of Sight.
The creature can’t willingly move closer to the source of its fear.
Blind Fighting
You have blindsight with a range of 10 feet. Within that range, you can effectively see anything that isn't behind total cover, even ifyou're blinded or in darkness. Moreover, you can see an invisible creature within that range, unless the creature successfully hides from you
The rules treat Blindsight the same way as darkvision or truesight (And for that matter, tremorsense, but 1 problem at a time). It is a type of "vision".
The rules for senses other than sight are non-existent, so can't really say more than that RAW.
I would treat frightened's "line of sight" as being able to perceive the location and image of the source of fear.
The rules treat Blindsight the same way as darkvision or truesight (And for that matter, tremorsense, but 1 problem at a time). It is a type of "vision".
The rules for senses other than sight are non-existent, so can't really say more than that RAW.
I would treat frightened's "line of sight" as being able to perceive the location and image of the source of fear.
That's pretty acceptable actually. Even not seeing things with my eyes, I can still "see"/perceive/know where things are thanks to my blindsight. Therefore, I'm not considered blinded within 10 feet, so the source of fear still into my line of sight.
This might be contentious, but I personally feel that "Line of Sight" can't be broken just by closing your eyes, whether or not you have special senses. It is still "Within Line of Sight" even if you're willingly foregoing your sense of sight. Just as your character is assumed to have 360 degree perception around themselves... you're not limited to a single cone of vision in front of yourself.
I can't help but think of the Medusa statblock, which calls out the specific rules that apply to avoiding eye contact with the Medusa. If it was possible to break the frightened condition the same way, I feel like it would be called out in the description for fear. Although I suppose there's the possibility that they didn't bother because just outright shutting your eyes in the middle of combat has the same effect as the frightened condition (disadvantage on attacks and ability checks)
Line of Sight is more than just that. The DMG defines Line of Sight as a line existing between two spaces when at least one line from a corner of one space to any part of another space does not "pass through or touch an object of effect that blocks vision".
While your eyes are closed, you should have no line of sight to anything as your eyelids block your vision., So is when target is invisible, when you're blinded or unable to see it otherwise.
Official ruling in Sage Advise also confirms it
The frightened condition says “while the source of its fear is within line of sight.” Does that mean you have disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks even if the source is invisible but you have a clear line to its space? No. If you can’t see something, it’s not within your line of sight. Speaking of “line of sight,” the game uses the English meaning of the term, which has no special meaning in the rules.
While your eyes are closed, you should have no line of sight to anything as your eyelids block your vision., So is when target is invisible, when you're blinded or unable to see it otherwise.
Official ruling in Sage Advise also confirms it
The frightened condition says “while the source of its fear is within line of sight.” Does that mean you have disadvantage on attack rolls and ability checks even if the source is invisible but you have a clear line to its space? No. If you can’t see something, it’s not within your line of sight. Speaking of “line of sight,” the game uses the English meaning of the term, which has no special meaning in the rules.
It we define line of sight in this way, you can possibly end most fear effects by closing your eyes just before the end of your turn?
While Official ruling states that "If you can’t see something, it’s not within your line of sight.", blinking eyes is too rapid to render you unable to see.
Otherwise we would be subject to Unseen Attackers and Targets all the time when attacking because we're blinking eyes and its not the case.
Let me join this thread, as I was searching for a similar topic but couldn't find a better one related to my question.
This might be a silly question, but I'd like to know your thoughts.
Let's suppose you use Channel Divinity: Charm Animals and Plants:
Each beast or plant creature that can see you within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw.
If a beast is not looking at you when you use that feature (e.g., it's looking at a different enemy or has its back turned), would it still be affected?
Similar wording can be found in Channel Divinity: Turn Undead:
Each undead that can see or hear you within 30 feet of you must make a Wisdom saving throw.
Or in Dreadful Aspect (from the Paladin: Oathbreaker found in the DMG):
As an action, the paladin channels the darkest emotions and focuses them into a burst of magical menace. Each creature of the paladin's choice within 30 feet of the paladin must make a Wisdom saving throw if it can see the paladin. On a failed save, the target is frightened of the paladin for 1 minute.
It seems a bit strange to me that a creature wouldn't be affected simply because it's not looking at you (for example, if it's fighting another member of your group and turns its back on you).
Maybe my examples are too extreme, and it might be enough if the creatures are simply aware of you at the moment you use those features, as long as they are not blinded or behind total cover.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
So, last saturday we were fighting a mummy. My pc is a lvl 11 Duergar Fighter, and he has the Blind Fighting, fighting style from Tasha's.
In one turn, the mummy used its Dreadful Glare ability on me, and I failed the saving throw so I became frightened. The thing is that I wanted to attack it but my DM told me that because I was frightened, I had disadvantage on my attack rolls (And the mummy was affected by our druid's faerie fire).
I told him, "considering that the mummy needs to be on my line of sight, if I close my eyes that wouldn't count, right?", he agreed with me but told that I had disadvantage anyway because I was considered blinded.
Becase it wasn't a good time to enter a discussion right in the middle of the combat, I told him for us to research about it later to get an answer.
My question for anyone that could help us, is: Considering that Bling Fighting says "effectively see anything that isn't behind total cover, even if you're blinded or in darkness", would the frightened condition of "disadvantage on Ability Checks and Attack rolls while the source of its fear is within Line of Sight" be still valid if I close my eyes?
Frightened
Blind Fighting
The rules treat Blindsight the same way as darkvision or truesight (And for that matter, tremorsense, but 1 problem at a time). It is a type of "vision".
The rules for senses other than sight are non-existent, so can't really say more than that RAW.
I would treat frightened's "line of sight" as being able to perceive the location and image of the source of fear.
That's pretty acceptable actually. Even not seeing things with my eyes, I can still "see"/perceive/know where things are thanks to my blindsight. Therefore, I'm not considered blinded within 10 feet, so the source of fear still into my line of sight.
I also treat creature that effectively can see while blinded to mean they still have line of sight.
But note that the Mummy's Dreadful Gaze only lasts until "until the end of the mummy's next turn".
This might be contentious, but I personally feel that "Line of Sight" can't be broken just by closing your eyes, whether or not you have special senses. It is still "Within Line of Sight" even if you're willingly foregoing your sense of sight. Just as your character is assumed to have 360 degree perception around themselves... you're not limited to a single cone of vision in front of yourself.
I can't help but think of the Medusa statblock, which calls out the specific rules that apply to avoiding eye contact with the Medusa. If it was possible to break the frightened condition the same way, I feel like it would be called out in the description for fear. Although I suppose there's the possibility that they didn't bother because just outright shutting your eyes in the middle of combat has the same effect as the frightened condition (disadvantage on attacks and ability checks)
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
If you have blindesight, it will allow you to cast line of sight spells on invisible creatures.
Therefore it is obvious that you if you have line of sight on creatures you cannot 'see', then they have line of sight to you.
I agree. Closing your eyes doesn't make scary things less scary - it makes them more scary.
You at least have to throw bedclothes over your head.
Line of Sight isn't the same as being able to see them. It just means you can draw a straight uninterrupted invisible line to them.
Line of Sight is more than just that. The DMG defines Line of Sight as a line existing between two spaces when at least one line from a corner of one space to any part of another space does not "pass through or touch an object of effect that blocks vision".
While your eyes are closed, you should have no line of sight to anything as your eyelids block your vision., So is when target is invisible, when you're blinded or unable to see it otherwise.
Official ruling in Sage Advise also confirms it
Doesn't sound to me like eyelids meet that criteria. They are not blocking the line between any spaces as they are within your own space.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
It we define line of sight in this way, you can possibly end most fear effects by closing your eyes just before the end of your turn?
If the fear effect says it ends when no longer within line of sight, then yes according to SAC.
So no spell that requires line of sight to be maintained will last for more than a few seconds - as soon as the PC blinks...
While Official ruling states that "If you can’t see something, it’s not within your line of sight.", blinking eyes is too rapid to render you unable to see.
Otherwise we would be subject to Unseen Attackers and Targets all the time when attacking because we're blinking eyes and its not the case.
Let me join this thread, as I was searching for a similar topic but couldn't find a better one related to my question.
This might be a silly question, but I'd like to know your thoughts.
Let's suppose you use Channel Divinity: Charm Animals and Plants:
If a beast is not looking at you when you use that feature (e.g., it's looking at a different enemy or has its back turned), would it still be affected?
Similar wording can be found in Channel Divinity: Turn Undead:
Or in Dreadful Aspect (from the Paladin: Oathbreaker found in the DMG):
It seems a bit strange to me that a creature wouldn't be affected simply because it's not looking at you (for example, if it's fighting another member of your group and turns its back on you).
Maybe my examples are too extreme, and it might be enough if the creatures are simply aware of you at the moment you use those features, as long as they are not blinded or behind total cover.