Yea I agree that there really was no need for it but at least it is a clearer language and an established principle. Reborn have the same sort of feature - "You don’t need to sleep, and magic can’t put you to sleep. You can finish a long rest in 4 hours if you spend those hours in an inactive, motionless state, during which you retain consciousness.".
That part is fine. I always considered trance to work the same way (except "semiconscious" was confusing and I'm glad they fixed that).
The buff is that they swapped weapon training with 2 floating tool/weapon proficiencies that can change daily. Elves were already one of the most powerful races, they didn't need one of their many, many traits getting buffed.
I always thought it a strange mechanism. In mixed race parties, it means the Elves stand the watch while others complete their rest. At least if you trust the elves.
It is just another advantage of WotC's favorite race. They get 4 extra hours a day for activities. There is a lot of shenanigans that can lead to.
I used that time for my Warlock to cast a free Hex. 4 hour long rest, walk around bored, at hour 7 cast Hex at 3rd lvl or above (depending on Warlock lvl) take a short rest and have Hex up for the next 8 to 24 hours while everyone else is waking up.
I always thought it a strange mechanism. In mixed race parties, it means the Elves stand the watch while others complete their rest. At least if you trust the elves.
It is just another advantage of WotC's favorite race. They get 4 extra hours a day for activities. There is a lot of shenanigans that can lead to.
I used that time for my Warlock to cast a free Hex. 4 hour long rest, walk around bored, at hour 7 cast Hex at 3rd lvl or above (depending on Warlock lvl) take a short rest and have Hex up for the next 8 to 24 hours while everyone else is waking up.
I used it for my elven artificer to tinker on contraptions and make stuff for the party.
I always thought it a strange mechanism. In mixed race parties, it means the Elves stand the watch while others complete their rest. At least if you trust the elves.
It is just another advantage of WotC's favorite race. They get 4 extra hours a day for activities. There is a lot of shenanigans that can lead to.
I used that time for my Warlock to cast a free Hex. 4 hour long rest, walk around bored, at hour 7 cast Hex at 3rd lvl or above (depending on Warlock lvl) take a short rest and have Hex up for the next 8 to 24 hours while everyone else is waking up.
I don't think I understand how that works. Are you talking about the 1st level enchantment spell Hex from the PHB? It seems to me that that requires a target that you are cursing. Even if you cheese that requirement, you can't maintain concentration on a spell during a short rest.
Yes I am talking about that Hex spell. And you can target anything, a spider, frog, rat, ant, etc and kill it. Taking a short rest does not break concentration, so you can definitely concentrate on a spell while taking a short rest. If you use Hex with a 3rd level spell slot or higher the spell lasts for 8 hours (if you use a 5th level spell slot or greater it lasts for 24 hours). Thats part of the reason for the 24 hour duration, so a Warlock can take a short rest and keep Hex up while they regain their other spell slots. Pretty well known trick actually.
Ah ok I did some poking around and I see that there have actually been threads on the topic of whether or not you can rest while maintaining concentration. It's more controversial than I would have imagined. It is super obvious to me that concentrating on an ongoing spell is a strenuous activity very similar to casting a spell. I'm shocked that there is even a debate about it.
I always thought it a strange mechanism. In mixed race parties, it means the Elves stand the watch while others complete their rest. At least if you trust the elves.
It is just another advantage of WotC's favorite race. They get 4 extra hours a day for activities. There is a lot of shenanigans that can lead to.
I used that time for my Warlock to cast a free Hex. 4 hour long rest, walk around bored, at hour 7 cast Hex at 3rd lvl or above (depending on Warlock lvl) take a short rest and have Hex up for the next 8 to 24 hours while everyone else is waking up.
I don't think I understand how that works. Are you talking about the 1st level enchantment spell Hex from the PHB? It seems to me that that requires a target that you are cursing. Even if you cheese that requirement, you can't maintain concentration on a spell during a short rest.
That’s not true. Nowhere in the rules for either spell durations (where the concentration rules are), or rests state that resting breaks concentration. See for yourself:
It's not a matter of if resting breaks concentration -- it doesn't. It's the other way around. Concentration "breaks" rest. Like, you would get no benefit from the rest period since you spent it performing strenuous activities, which is forbidden during resting in order to benefit from it.
Fair enough. That's a decision that's put pretty squarely into the DM's hands by design. The PHB gives some examples of what should be considered the upper limit of non-strenuous activities during a short rest by saying "a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds". Obviously the rules cannot explicitly list every possible activity that a player could imagine their character doing and then categorize them into strenuous vs non-strenuous -- that's the DM's job. To me, when you are trying to relax and rest your mind over a period of time, maintaining mental concentration on something throughout that time is too strenuous of an activity to be able to gain the benefit of resting your mind. But if another DM disagrees with that and allows it, that's their call.
Warlocks automatically upcast all their spells as they level up. When hex is upcast its duration increases from 1 hr, to 8 hrs, to 24 hrs.
Warlocks are designed to require 2ish short rests every 16ish hours.
If it isn’t RAI for a warlock to be able to maintain concentration on hex through a short rest, then why in the heck would the duration ever need to be anything longer than 5ish hours? Doesn’t compute.
Therefore they must have intended for warlocks to be able to concentrate on hex throughout a short rest.
And since they appear to have intended for that, then they must have also intended for every Spellcaster to be able to concentrate on any spell through a short rest.
It's not a matter of if resting breaks concentration -- it doesn't. It's the other way around. Concentration "breaks" rest. Like, you would get no benefit from the rest period since you spent it performing strenuous activities, which is forbidden during resting in order to benefit from it.
I feel like there was another discussion some time ago about concentrating through rest, and this was my take as well. The rules don't lay it out explicitly, and it's up to the DM to interpret exactly how strenuous concentration is in terms of the rather loose description given for taking a rest.
Hex is a 24 hour lasting spell. If concentration was so strenuous why would they allow a spell to last for 24 hours while concentrating? That character would be having a mental breakdown due to the stress of holding the spell that long if it was that hard. You can't sleep or "trance" for elves while concentrating on a spell, but other than that its really no effort at all to concentrate on a spell, and no where in the rules does it say its "strenuous", that feels like a personal view which is fine to have but shouldn't be used as official in any way.
It's not a matter of if resting breaks concentration -- it doesn't. It's the other way around. Concentration "breaks" rest. Like, you would get no benefit from the rest period since you spent it performing strenuous activities, which is forbidden during resting in order to benefit from it.
I feel like there was another discussion some time ago about concentrating through rest, and this was my take as well. The rules don't lay it out explicitly, and it's up to the DM to interpret exactly how strenuous concentration is in terms of the rather loose description given for taking a rest.
Its true a DM could overrule it, but there's no real game breaking issue to be able to concentrate on a spell during a short rest (long rest, no because you can't concentrate while sleeping or in a trance for an elf) but it helps Warlocks who only have a very small amount of spells. Why would a DM want to make it harder for a Warlock who already feels limited with their spell casting? Feels like they're putting their own views ahead of whats good for the players and at the end of the day it should be about making the players enjoy the game.
Yes, I've already conceded that there is no rule specifically categorizing the activity of concentration into being strenuous or non-strenuous and therefore it's the DM's call. But there are some context clues throughout the rules that can assist the DM with that decision.
First, the task is difficult enough to maintain that it is impossible to concentrate on more than one spell at a time. Also, it is involved in the process of casting and maintaining spells. Casting a spell is an example of a strenuous activity according to the rules for long rests.
Narratively and mechanically, the purpose of resting is to have "time to sleep and eat, tend their wounds, refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting, and brace themselves for further adventure". Refreshing the mind and spirit implies resting the mind in order to recover related mechanical resources.
The rules for short resting give examples of the upper limit for non-strenuous activities such as "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds" and the rules for long resting give similar examples which are referred to as "light activity" which include "reading, talking, eating, or standing watch". The rules for long resting also give examples of strenuous activities including "1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity" and the general rules for resting imply that strenuous activities include "exploration, social interaction, and combat".
Now the DM must use all of this information to make an informed decision about whether or not concentration should be considered to be a strenuous activity. In my opinion, given what concentration is mechanically, when and how it is used and the written limitations for using or maintaining it, concentration is an activity most similar to casting spells or similar adventuring activity in terms of strenuousness when compared with all examples given. I would rule that concentration cannot be maintained during a short or long rest.
In my opinion you should be able to concentrate on a spell through a short rest and maintain both the rest and the concentration. Crawford has stated that you can maintain concentration through a long rest so long as you are not subject to the unconscious condition (a boon to the species that do not have conventional sleep). I do not believe that concentration is more strenuous than say, patching a gaping wound in your chest from having been run through with a spear. I might consider both to need concentration. I have been in plenty of surgeries in my premed days to know the mental focus required is not insignificant. If you can concentrate through a long rest, why not a short?
In your premed days, at the end of completing a course such as Anatomy or Physiology, when you stayed up all night heavily concentrating on your process of studying for your final exam, did you feel mentally rested and refreshed the next morning?
In your premed days, at the end of completing a course such as Anatomy or Physiology, when you stayed up all night heavily concentrating on your process of studying for your final exam, did you feel mentally rested and refreshed the next morning?
Not especially, but I can tell you that my ICU friend doesn’t feel particularly rested when pulling a shift keeping yet another motorcycle accident patient alive either. Yet the game says he should be getting all his short rest features back anyway.
Yes, I've already conceded that there is no rule specifically categorizing the activity of concentration into being strenuous or non-strenuous and therefore it's the DM's call. But there are some context clues throughout the rules that can assist the DM with that decision.
First, the task is difficult enough to maintain that it is impossible to concentrate on more than one spell at a time. Also, it is involved in the process of casting and maintaining spells. Casting a spell is an example of a strenuous activity according to the rules for long rests.
Narratively and mechanically, the purpose of resting is to have "time to sleep and eat, tend their wounds, refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting, and brace themselves for further adventure". Refreshing the mind and spirit implies resting the mind in order to recover related mechanical resources.
The rules for short resting give examples of the upper limit for non-strenuous activities such as "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds" and the rules for long resting give similar examples which are referred to as "light activity" which include "reading, talking, eating, or standing watch". The rules for long resting also give examples of strenuous activities including "1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity" and the general rules for resting imply that strenuous activities include "exploration, social interaction, and combat".
Now the DM must use all of this information to make an informed decision about whether or not concentration should be considered to be a strenuous activity. In my opinion, given what concentration is mechanically, when and how it is used and the written limitations for using or maintaining it, concentration is an activity most similar to casting spells or similar adventuring activity in terms of strenuousness when compared with all examples given. I would rule that concentration cannot be maintained during a short or long rest.
Again, its hard to think they'd make spells like Hex that can last for 24 hours and say Warlocks can't take a short rest anytime inbetween while maintaining this spell. Its like it was deigned specifically so you could do this as a Warlock.
Again your DM or you as a DM is welcome to do whatever they like, but it would be outside the rules as stated that three things break concentration Taking damage and failing a concentration check, casting another concentration spell or being incapacitated/killed. You can technically concentrate during a long rest (the portion in which you aren't sleeping) but you have to sleep for 6 hours to get the benefits so as soon as you sleep you'd lose concentration. It does state casting a spell breaks a long rest, but concentrating is not casting and no where does it say it is, but sleep (and only sleep) does break concentration during a long rest as noted. You can physically attack someone or cast other non concentration spells and keep concentration but doing light activity like reading or walking around would break it? That doesn't make sense (and isn't written anywhere).
So sage advice says you can, no where in the rules does it state you can't, so again it a DM"s choice to add that in, but they should know they are doing so with no actual merit and its purely based on their own opinion with no fact to back it up. But some DM's are like that, if it was my DM i'd argue it for sure until they admitted they're doing it despite any proof its in the rules and from there you just have to accept a bad decision.
No, you're thinking about it backwards. The argument is not whether or not attempting to rest breaks concentration. It doesn't. The question is whether or not concentration is an allowable activity to maintain while also attempting to gain the benefits of a rest.
Specifically, the restriction on activities during a short rest in order to gain the benefits are: "a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."
The restriction on activities during a long rest in order to gain the benefits are: "a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity - at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity - the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it."
Unfortunately, the rules are silent on this question. Therefore, it's the DM's call. Concentration is not listed as an example of either a strenuous activity or a non-strenuous activity within the rules for resting and the activity itself is not described, explained, or well defined by the rules. The entire description for concentration is that it is an activity that a character maintains "in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends." Then there is a short list of events that can end or break concentration. That's it. That's the entire system. Because of this, the DM must make the decision for what concentration is in their world and how strenuous of an activity it is to maintain. Developer opinions don't really matter on this one since there is nothing in the rules for them to make a ruling on -- the rules are absent on the issue.
In my own opinion, given what I think resting should generally look like and what I think the activity of concentration entails, I would say that maintaining concentration is a similar activity to spellcasting (different, but similar) and I would classify it as a strenuous activity that falls under the "similar adventuring activity" category and therefore doesn't count towards and potentially interrupts a long rest and is not allowed during a short rest.
You can go for a pretty long time without resting, especially if you don't use my suggestion from another thread that uses exhaustion mechanics from the Travel Pace rules for all adventuring activities which is probably technically not RAW although it does make sense when you think about it. Without something like that in place, why wouldn't you be able to concentrate on the spell for 24 hours? Just don't rest during that time -- easy. Sure, there will be times when you won't get to take advantage of the full 24 hours because you've decided to drop your concentration in favor of taking a rest. But maybe other times you forgo the rest in favor of maintaining concentration or the party just doesn't stop to rest during those 24 hours or there is no need to rest. They put it in there as an upper limit for how long you can concentrate on the spell. There's no reason at all to jump to the conclusion that this must mean that you are allowed to maintain concentration during a rest -- that's the DM's call.
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That part is fine. I always considered trance to work the same way (except "semiconscious" was confusing and I'm glad they fixed that).
The buff is that they swapped weapon training with 2 floating tool/weapon proficiencies that can change daily. Elves were already one of the most powerful races, they didn't need one of their many, many traits getting buffed.
I used that time for my Warlock to cast a free Hex. 4 hour long rest, walk around bored, at hour 7 cast Hex at 3rd lvl or above (depending on Warlock lvl) take a short rest and have Hex up for the next 8 to 24 hours while everyone else is waking up.
I used it for my elven artificer to tinker on contraptions and make stuff for the party.
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I don't think I understand how that works. Are you talking about the 1st level enchantment spell Hex from the PHB? It seems to me that that requires a target that you are cursing. Even if you cheese that requirement, you can't maintain concentration on a spell during a short rest.
Yes I am talking about that Hex spell. And you can target anything, a spider, frog, rat, ant, etc and kill it. Taking a short rest does not break concentration, so you can definitely concentrate on a spell while taking a short rest. If you use Hex with a 3rd level spell slot or higher the spell lasts for 8 hours (if you use a 5th level spell slot or greater it lasts for 24 hours). Thats part of the reason for the 24 hour duration, so a Warlock can take a short rest and keep Hex up while they regain their other spell slots. Pretty well known trick actually.
Ah ok I did some poking around and I see that there have actually been threads on the topic of whether or not you can rest while maintaining concentration. It's more controversial than I would have imagined. It is super obvious to me that concentrating on an ongoing spell is a strenuous activity very similar to casting a spell. I'm shocked that there is even a debate about it.
That’s not true. Nowhere in the rules for either spell durations (where the concentration rules are), or rests state that resting breaks concentration. See for yourself:
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It's not a matter of if resting breaks concentration -- it doesn't. It's the other way around. Concentration "breaks" rest. Like, you would get no benefit from the rest period since you spent it performing strenuous activities, which is forbidden during resting in order to benefit from it.
I wouldn’t consider it “strenuous” enough to break a rest. Casting a spell? Sure. But just maintaining a spell? Nah.
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Fair enough. That's a decision that's put pretty squarely into the DM's hands by design. The PHB gives some examples of what should be considered the upper limit of non-strenuous activities during a short rest by saying "a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds". Obviously the rules cannot explicitly list every possible activity that a player could imagine their character doing and then categorize them into strenuous vs non-strenuous -- that's the DM's job. To me, when you are trying to relax and rest your mind over a period of time, maintaining mental concentration on something throughout that time is too strenuous of an activity to be able to gain the benefit of resting your mind. But if another DM disagrees with that and allows it, that's their call.
The way I look at it is this:
Ne?
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I feel like there was another discussion some time ago about concentrating through rest, and this was my take as well. The rules don't lay it out explicitly, and it's up to the DM to interpret exactly how strenuous concentration is in terms of the rather loose description given for taking a rest.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Hex is a 24 hour lasting spell. If concentration was so strenuous why would they allow a spell to last for 24 hours while concentrating? That character would be having a mental breakdown due to the stress of holding the spell that long if it was that hard. You can't sleep or "trance" for elves while concentrating on a spell, but other than that its really no effort at all to concentrate on a spell, and no where in the rules does it say its "strenuous", that feels like a personal view which is fine to have but shouldn't be used as official in any way.
Its true a DM could overrule it, but there's no real game breaking issue to be able to concentrate on a spell during a short rest (long rest, no because you can't concentrate while sleeping or in a trance for an elf) but it helps Warlocks who only have a very small amount of spells. Why would a DM want to make it harder for a Warlock who already feels limited with their spell casting? Feels like they're putting their own views ahead of whats good for the players and at the end of the day it should be about making the players enjoy the game.
Yes, I've already conceded that there is no rule specifically categorizing the activity of concentration into being strenuous or non-strenuous and therefore it's the DM's call. But there are some context clues throughout the rules that can assist the DM with that decision.
First, the task is difficult enough to maintain that it is impossible to concentrate on more than one spell at a time. Also, it is involved in the process of casting and maintaining spells. Casting a spell is an example of a strenuous activity according to the rules for long rests.
Narratively and mechanically, the purpose of resting is to have "time to sleep and eat, tend their wounds, refresh their minds and spirits for spellcasting, and brace themselves for further adventure". Refreshing the mind and spirit implies resting the mind in order to recover related mechanical resources.
The rules for short resting give examples of the upper limit for non-strenuous activities such as "eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds" and the rules for long resting give similar examples which are referred to as "light activity" which include "reading, talking, eating, or standing watch". The rules for long resting also give examples of strenuous activities including "1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity" and the general rules for resting imply that strenuous activities include "exploration, social interaction, and combat".
Now the DM must use all of this information to make an informed decision about whether or not concentration should be considered to be a strenuous activity. In my opinion, given what concentration is mechanically, when and how it is used and the written limitations for using or maintaining it, concentration is an activity most similar to casting spells or similar adventuring activity in terms of strenuousness when compared with all examples given. I would rule that concentration cannot be maintained during a short or long rest.
In my opinion you should be able to concentrate on a spell through a short rest and maintain both the rest and the concentration. Crawford has stated that you can maintain concentration through a long rest so long as you are not subject to the unconscious condition (a boon to the species that do not have conventional sleep). I do not believe that concentration is more strenuous than say, patching a gaping wound in your chest from having been run through with a spear. I might consider both to need concentration. I have been in plenty of surgeries in my premed days to know the mental focus required is not insignificant. If you can concentrate through a long rest, why not a short?
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In your premed days, at the end of completing a course such as Anatomy or Physiology, when you stayed up all night heavily concentrating on your process of studying for your final exam, did you feel mentally rested and refreshed the next morning?
Not especially, but I can tell you that my ICU friend doesn’t feel particularly rested when pulling a shift keeping yet another motorcycle accident patient alive either. Yet the game says he should be getting all his short rest features back anyway.
Also, wear your helmets please.
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There's also this
https://www.sageadvice.eu/concentration-during-rest/
Again, its hard to think they'd make spells like Hex that can last for 24 hours and say Warlocks can't take a short rest anytime inbetween while maintaining this spell. Its like it was deigned specifically so you could do this as a Warlock.
Again your DM or you as a DM is welcome to do whatever they like, but it would be outside the rules as stated that three things break concentration Taking damage and failing a concentration check, casting another concentration spell or being incapacitated/killed. You can technically concentrate during a long rest (the portion in which you aren't sleeping) but you have to sleep for 6 hours to get the benefits so as soon as you sleep you'd lose concentration. It does state casting a spell breaks a long rest, but concentrating is not casting and no where does it say it is, but sleep (and only sleep) does break concentration during a long rest as noted. You can physically attack someone or cast other non concentration spells and keep concentration but doing light activity like reading or walking around would break it? That doesn't make sense (and isn't written anywhere).
So sage advice says you can, no where in the rules does it state you can't, so again it a DM"s choice to add that in, but they should know they are doing so with no actual merit and its purely based on their own opinion with no fact to back it up. But some DM's are like that, if it was my DM i'd argue it for sure until they admitted they're doing it despite any proof its in the rules and from there you just have to accept a bad decision.
No, you're thinking about it backwards. The argument is not whether or not attempting to rest breaks concentration. It doesn't. The question is whether or not concentration is an allowable activity to maintain while also attempting to gain the benefits of a rest.
Specifically, the restriction on activities during a short rest in order to gain the benefits are: "a character does nothing more strenuous than eating, drinking, reading, and tending to wounds."
The restriction on activities during a long rest in order to gain the benefits are: "a character sleeps for at least 6 hours and performs no more than 2 hours of light activity, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch. If the rest is interrupted by a period of strenuous activity - at least 1 hour of walking, fighting, casting spells, or similar adventuring activity - the characters must begin the rest again to gain any benefit from it."
Unfortunately, the rules are silent on this question. Therefore, it's the DM's call. Concentration is not listed as an example of either a strenuous activity or a non-strenuous activity within the rules for resting and the activity itself is not described, explained, or well defined by the rules. The entire description for concentration is that it is an activity that a character maintains "in order to keep their magic active. If you lose concentration, such a spell ends." Then there is a short list of events that can end or break concentration. That's it. That's the entire system. Because of this, the DM must make the decision for what concentration is in their world and how strenuous of an activity it is to maintain. Developer opinions don't really matter on this one since there is nothing in the rules for them to make a ruling on -- the rules are absent on the issue.
In my own opinion, given what I think resting should generally look like and what I think the activity of concentration entails, I would say that maintaining concentration is a similar activity to spellcasting (different, but similar) and I would classify it as a strenuous activity that falls under the "similar adventuring activity" category and therefore doesn't count towards and potentially interrupts a long rest and is not allowed during a short rest.
You can go for a pretty long time without resting, especially if you don't use my suggestion from another thread that uses exhaustion mechanics from the Travel Pace rules for all adventuring activities which is probably technically not RAW although it does make sense when you think about it. Without something like that in place, why wouldn't you be able to concentrate on the spell for 24 hours? Just don't rest during that time -- easy. Sure, there will be times when you won't get to take advantage of the full 24 hours because you've decided to drop your concentration in favor of taking a rest. But maybe other times you forgo the rest in favor of maintaining concentration or the party just doesn't stop to rest during those 24 hours or there is no need to rest. They put it in there as an upper limit for how long you can concentrate on the spell. There's no reason at all to jump to the conclusion that this must mean that you are allowed to maintain concentration during a rest -- that's the DM's call.