Let's assume that I can use one of the 'teleport to an unoccupied space within X feet' spells or abilities and I want to appear ABOVE a target, then use my Attack(s) to strike down at them. I'm GOING to fall at some point during my turn...but when does that happen? If it's at the END of the turn then I might be good if I can teleport back out but if it's at the point my feet leave the ground I'm going to land in a tangle.
You fall instantaneously if any fall conditions are met. Theoretically, you would teleport and fall immediately, potentially taking damage and being knocked prone.
You might get an attack with an readied action off using your reaction before falling down.
You could teleport next to a target and narrate the attack as being done in a downward strike. But if you really want to go above the target, you would also directly fall.
There is an expanded Falling section in Xanathar's:
Rate of Falling The rule for falling assumes that a creature immediately drops the entire distance when it falls. But what if a creature is at a high altitude when it falls, perhaps on the back of a griffon or on board an airship? Realistically, a fall from such a height can take more than a few seconds, extending past the end of the turn when the fall occurred. If you’d like high-altitude falls to be properly time-consuming, use the following optional rule.
When you fall from a great height, you instantly descend up to 500 feet. If you’re still falling on your next turn, you descend up to 500 feet at the end of that turn. This process continues until the fall ends, either because you hit the ground or the fall is otherwise halted.
I can think of no way in which action economy would allow for teleporting, attacking, and teleporting again...
...except maybe an 11th level horizon walker ranger teleporting 10 ft and then using the eladrin's (shadar kai, etc.) racial teleport? In which case you're using both the class ability and the racial ability suboptimally...
I’d say immediately before anything else happens. A couple months back someone was trying to argue they could eldritch blast with repelling blast to hit a person up into the air (shooting at an upward angle), then hit them again (and again) knocking the target 30’ up, so they’d take fall damage in addition to the spell damage. Those are the kinds of shenanigans you can open up if you allow any kind of time before falling.
As pointed out above, Xanathar's Guide contains an optional rule for falling that it happens immediately. I don't typically use this optional rule and fall back on the more general falling guidance given in the Player's Handbook.
I’d say immediately before anything else happens. A couple months back someone was trying to argue they could eldritch blast with repelling blast to hit a person up into the air (shooting at an upward angle), then hit them again (and again) knocking the target 30’ up, so they’d take fall damage in addition to the spell damage. Those are the kinds of shenanigans you can open up if you allow any kind of time before falling.
They can actually do this because all three rays happen with the same action, and Repelling Blast isn't limited to only one of the rays. They can each knock them back. So if he hits with 3 rays, that is indeed 30' knocked back.
On topic:
If it is your turn, events happen whichever order you want them to if there are two or more 'simultaneous' events and neither says it happens before the other. You choose when during your turn to take your actions (and bonus actions) unless their timing is otherwise specified. So if you want to attack while falling, you can. If you wanna attack before falling, you can.
Because again, in bullet form, we know these are true:
If two or more events happen simultaneously, whoever's turn it is determines the order
You determine when on your turn you take you action (and bonus action) unless their timing is otherwise specified.
Side Note: "Fall Immediately" that people above are quoting is talking about how long it takes to fall not when they fall. It is found in an optional rule.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You fall when the DM says you do. I usually have fall occur the moment you are in midair without any support to prevent it. I've rule it as an instant trigger to that happening even before the optional rule came out clarifying timing for falls as happening immediately.
If it is your turn, events happen whichever order you want them to if there are two or more 'simultaneous' events and neither says it happens before the other. You choose when during your turn to take your actions (and bonus actions) unless their timing is otherwise specified. So if you want to attack while falling, you can. If you wanna attack before falling, you can.
Because again, in bullet form, we know these are true:
If two or more events happen simultaneously, whoever's turn it is determines the order
You determine when on your turn you take you action (and bonus action) unless their timing is otherwise specified.
Side Note: "Fall Immediately" that people above are quoting is talking about how long it takes to fall not when they fall. It is found in an optional rule.
That last statement is a valid interpretation, but it doesn't invalidate the other interpretation that the word 'immediately' applies to when you fall, or perhaps it applies to both--the rule doesn't get that granular. I would say that your position is supported by the wording that says if the falling distance is over 500 feet, you fall the first 500 feet and then on your next turn, if you are still falling, you don't immediately fall another 500 feet as soon as your turn comes around--you fall another 500 feet at the end of your turn, giving you time to act.
And we should not ignore the fact that cinematic falling is not only supported by the PHB, it gives more options from a storytelling perspective. If it adds something to the encounter, then don't use the optional rule. If not, then use the rule and move on to what matters.
If it is your turn, events happen whichever order you want them to if there are two or more 'simultaneous' events and neither says it happens before the other. You choose when during your turn to take your actions (and bonus actions) unless their timing is otherwise specified. So if you want to attack while falling, you can. If you wanna attack before falling, you can.
Because again, in bullet form, we know these are true:
If two or more events happen simultaneously, whoever's turn it is determines the order
You determine when on your turn you take you action (and bonus action) unless their timing is otherwise specified.
Side Note: "Fall Immediately" that people above are quoting is talking about how long it takes to fall not when they fall. It is found in an optional rule.
That last statement is a valid interpretation, but it doesn't invalidate the other interpretation that the word 'immediately' applies to when you fall, or perhaps it applies to both--the rule doesn't get that granular. I would say that your position is supported by the wording that says if the falling distance is over 500 feet, you fall the first 500 feet and then on your next turn, if you are still falling, you don't immediately fall another 500 feet as soon as your turn comes around--you fall another 500 feet at the end of your turn, giving you time to act.
? That optional rule is for immediate "rate" of fall. That is talking about how long it takes to transpire over time. It doesn't at all modify the trigger for falling, the "when" of falling.
And we should not ignore the fact that cinematic falling is not only supported by the PHB, it gives more options from a storytelling perspective. If it adds something to the encounter, then don't use the optional rule. If not, then use the rule and move on to what matters.
I agree entirely. This is one of those optional rules that doesn't really add anything, and in fact makes things murkier. It only adds less-clarity.
eg. Say someone is almost directly above you, 200ft up, hanging from a rope. On their turn they let go. They should fall. "Falling immediately" optional rules might prevent you, the party mage, from casting feather fall and saving them from certain death. The whole purpose of the spell. Why? Because if they go the entire distance immediately, there is no time in which they're within range of the spell until after they've hit the ground. 200ft up to 0ft immediately means there was never a moment in which they were at 60ft up.
But then you get people arguing about reactions being able to time travel to before their triggers, and other people arguing that the distance of the trigger means even if it does happen before the fall it still isn't within range then, and others arguing about the spell descriptions phrase "falling creature" and how if the fall is immediate then there is no such thing as a "falling creature" unless it is falling more than 500ft and takes rounds to hit the ground, and arguing about how long an action even actually takes and why can...
See, it only adds technical complication to what was previously an easily arbitrated answer. Whenever the target gets within 60ft you can feather fall them. Obviously, that is when you do it. because there exists a moment in time when they're both falling and when they're within 60ft of you. This is obvious already and the optional rule serves to muddle that obvious truth.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
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Let's assume that I can use one of the 'teleport to an unoccupied space within X feet' spells or abilities and I want to appear ABOVE a target, then use my Attack(s) to strike down at them. I'm GOING to fall at some point during my turn...but when does that happen? If it's at the END of the turn then I might be good if I can teleport back out but if it's at the point my feet leave the ground I'm going to land in a tangle.
You fall instantaneously if any fall conditions are met. Theoretically, you would teleport and fall immediately, potentially taking damage and being knocked prone.
You might get an attack with an readied action off using your reaction before falling down.
You could teleport next to a target and narrate the attack as being done in a downward strike. But if you really want to go above the target, you would also directly fall.
There is an expanded Falling section in Xanathar's:
More Interesting Lock Picking Rules
You fall only after the following:
Then you fall straight down and leave a humanoid shaped hole in the ground.
Accurate.
This is my experience when I was growing up as well but I wanted to make sure physics hadn't changed.
There was that blip in 1985 but was correct at a hot dog stand in rural Alabama.
Clarify with your DM first. We have done both. Sometimes it immediately and sometimes it's cartoon physics and at the end of the turn.
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I can think of no way in which action economy would allow for teleporting, attacking, and teleporting again...
...except maybe an 11th level horizon walker ranger teleporting 10 ft and then using the eladrin's (shadar kai, etc.) racial teleport? In which case you're using both the class ability and the racial ability suboptimally...
I’d say immediately before anything else happens. A couple months back someone was trying to argue they could eldritch blast with repelling blast to hit a person up into the air (shooting at an upward angle), then hit them again (and again) knocking the target 30’ up, so they’d take fall damage in addition to the spell damage. Those are the kinds of shenanigans you can open up if you allow any kind of time before falling.
As pointed out above, Xanathar's Guide contains an optional rule for falling that it happens immediately. I don't typically use this optional rule and fall back on the more general falling guidance given in the Player's Handbook.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
They can actually do this because all three rays happen with the same action, and Repelling Blast isn't limited to only one of the rays. They can each knock them back. So if he hits with 3 rays, that is indeed 30' knocked back.
On topic:
If it is your turn, events happen whichever order you want them to if there are two or more 'simultaneous' events and neither says it happens before the other. You choose when during your turn to take your actions (and bonus actions) unless their timing is otherwise specified. So if you want to attack while falling, you can. If you wanna attack before falling, you can.
Because again, in bullet form, we know these are true:
Side Note: "Fall Immediately" that people above are quoting is talking about how long it takes to fall not when they fall. It is found in an optional rule.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You fall when the DM says you do. I usually have fall occur the moment you are in midair without any support to prevent it. I've rule it as an instant trigger to that happening even before the optional rule came out clarifying timing for falls as happening immediately.
That last statement is a valid interpretation, but it doesn't invalidate the other interpretation that the word 'immediately' applies to when you fall, or perhaps it applies to both--the rule doesn't get that granular. I would say that your position is supported by the wording that says if the falling distance is over 500 feet, you fall the first 500 feet and then on your next turn, if you are still falling, you don't immediately fall another 500 feet as soon as your turn comes around--you fall another 500 feet at the end of your turn, giving you time to act.
And we should not ignore the fact that cinematic falling is not only supported by the PHB, it gives more options from a storytelling perspective. If it adds something to the encounter, then don't use the optional rule. If not, then use the rule and move on to what matters.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Its also an optional rule in XGtE that a player can choose the order at which two or more things happen at the same time on a turn.
A creature that's immune to any effects its not aware of is an interesting concept, but I'm not sure how to resolve it in a game.
? That optional rule is for immediate "rate" of fall. That is talking about how long it takes to transpire over time. It doesn't at all modify the trigger for falling, the "when" of falling.
I agree entirely. This is one of those optional rules that doesn't really add anything, and in fact makes things murkier. It only adds less-clarity.
eg. Say someone is almost directly above you, 200ft up, hanging from a rope. On their turn they let go. They should fall. "Falling immediately" optional rules might prevent you, the party mage, from casting feather fall and saving them from certain death. The whole purpose of the spell. Why? Because if they go the entire distance immediately, there is no time in which they're within range of the spell until after they've hit the ground. 200ft up to 0ft immediately means there was never a moment in which they were at 60ft up.
But then you get people arguing about reactions being able to time travel to before their triggers, and other people arguing that the distance of the trigger means even if it does happen before the fall it still isn't within range then, and others arguing about the spell descriptions phrase "falling creature" and how if the fall is immediate then there is no such thing as a "falling creature" unless it is falling more than 500ft and takes rounds to hit the ground, and arguing about how long an action even actually takes and why can...
See, it only adds technical complication to what was previously an easily arbitrated answer. Whenever the target gets within 60ft you can feather fall them. Obviously, that is when you do it. because there exists a moment in time when they're both falling and when they're within 60ft of you. This is obvious already and the optional rule serves to muddle that obvious truth.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.