So my DM has disallowed the word deconcentrate as a command after I upcasted it as a 3rd level on 3 enemy casters at the same time.
What do you think, valid use of command or not? I mean I could just have used a damage spell to force concentrations checks and command takes an action
I disagree with your DM just banning that phrase... but at the same time, "Deconcentrate" does not necessarily mean "Stop concentrating on a spell". They could interpret it to mean that they'll spread out from their current grouping, so that they are no longer concentrated in a small space. They could take it to mean paying less attention to whatever individual they've been targeting with attacks... it's a good idea for a single-sentence phrase. I think I would, personally, have the enemy make an intelligence check to determine if they're smart enough to know different possible interpretations of the command, but that's just me.
Honestly, I'd just say you can't directly force a break in concentration via Command. It's not a concept you can really express in a single word, and the spell mostly involves physical actions in any case. For single target concentration breaking, Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Hold Person are good low level options. Hold Person can likewise scale to multiple targets, albeit slightly behind Command. And they're all WIS saves, so there's no variance in performance there.
In the same vein of what TDDS said, it could be interpreted in several ways. As a DM, I might be inclined to allow it but it cuts both ways. At that moment, I would pause the game and give them the option to make a choice as a group on whether to allow it or not, with them having the understanding that their own concentration spells are also at risk.
I've done this in the past. When I presented with my epic crit system to the table (where instead of rolling two damage dice or doubling the value of a single roll, I offered the option to allow crits to be still a single roll + the maximum value of the damage dice), the party was excited until I told them that the monsters they faced would also benefit from it. Suddenly the entire party loved RAW.
I do that whenever a player has loophole exploit actually. Seems to work rather nicely.
Also, if you use fancy words, there's a good chance the target doesn't know what that word means, and therefore cannot follow the command. So "deconcentrate" might work fine on wizards or artificers, but not so well on classes that aren't bookworms.
Also also, per Merriam-Webster: "to reduce or abolish the concentration of". I'll be happy reduce my concentration on the spell. But since the D&D rules regarding concentration make it a binary thing (either I'm concentrating or I'm not), concentrating less does exactly nothing.
Also^3, concentration is a game rule description, not necessarily the word (or the only word) used in-game to describe maintaining a spell by any particular caster. So they'll deconcentrate on something, but not necessarily drop the spell effect they are focused on.
I think your DM is perfectly within his right to not allow command to use made up (deconcentrate refers to concentration in the chemical/density sense, if anything) or rigged words (like when people attempt to use other random languages to bypass the one word command intent).
I agree with several other posters that "deconcentrate" is both vague and it is addressing rule mechanics rather than sounding like a reasonable direction or order.
I would suggest use a command like "Surrender", "Abandon", "Cease", "Acquiesce" , or "Capitulate". It would bolster your position if the command word would effect different types of creatures; so it doesn't sound you are only trying to target concentrating spellcasters.( i.e. an orge would cease grappling the party's rouge, or a group of archers put lower their bows. etc.)
The desired action of the target(s) is "Immediately stop any hostile or aggressive activity then ends its turn". I believe that is the outcome you are trying to achieve.
Note that “the DM determines how the target behaves”; this is not really a “mind control” spell in the sense that the caster is getting in the target’s head and directing their actions; it’s a quick and dirty directive to take some physical action, based on the target’s immediate understanding of the word. Imo when there’s this much wrangling over an effect another comparable spell can explicitly do, I’d honestly say you should just cede the point that you can only flex a spell so far.
I think your DM is perfectly within his right to not allow command to use made up (deconcentrate refers to concentration in the chemical/density sense, if anything) or rigged words (like when people attempt to use other random languages to bypass the one word command intent).
I agree in principle, but it's worth noting that players don't speak Common. My players, for example, speak English. Yes, I recognize that this opens the door to arguments such as, "in Common they have a word that means give me all your gold and magic items, then surrender, turn your life around, stop being a bandit, train to become stronger, and find me in a year so you can work for me as an adventurer." But still.
While I do think figuring out fun ways to fenagle this spell is entertaining, you at least have to do it in a clever way.
"Deconcentrate" isn't a word that works in this way, and honestly you'd probably be better off just forcing them to do an activity they can't do while concentrating.
While I do think figuring out fun ways to fenagle this spell is entertaining, you at least have to do it in a clever way.
"Deconcentrate" isn't a word that works in this way, and honestly you'd probably be better off just forcing them to do an activity they can't do while concentrating.
Make them dance or something.
RAW, unless you're hitting them with a condition that incapacitates, you can't really force them to drop concentration like that. A character can hold concentration while attacking, there's not really a plausible one-word activity that is more mentally demanding than that.
While I do think figuring out fun ways to fenagle this spell is entertaining, you at least have to do it in a clever way.
"Deconcentrate" isn't a word that works in this way, and honestly you'd probably be better off just forcing them to do an activity they can't do while concentrating.
Make them dance or something.
RAW, unless you're hitting them with a condition that incapacitates, you can't really force them to drop concentration like that. A character can hold concentration while attacking, there's not really a plausible one-word activity that is more mentally demanding than that.
You've just never experienced truly soulful dancing, it sounds like. :P
I get what you mean, but I feel like even if it shouldn't work RAW that if you were able to be creative enough with Command it should be rewarded. (With limits.)
You have one word, and there's another spell at the same level targeting the same save to get a target to drop concentration. Creativity is good for illusions or terrain shaping stuff, but this is just pushing for more than the spell is meant to give.
I disagree with your DM just banning that phrase... but at the same time, "Deconcentrate" does not necessarily mean "Stop concentrating on a spell". They could interpret it to mean that they'll spread out from their current grouping, so that they are no longer concentrated in a small space. They could take it to mean paying less attention to whatever individual they've been targeting with attacks... it's a good idea for a single-sentence phrase. I think I would, personally, have the enemy make an intelligence check to determine if they're smart enough to know different possible interpretations of the command, but that's just me.
I personally believe this is somewhat silly. The spell itself has several example words and their effects already listed, all of which can be interpreted in different ways so as to minimize effects on the target.
"Drop? Drop what? Drop myself and take fall damage? That's clearly directly harmful so the spell doesn't work." "Approach? Approach what? Since it's ambiguous, the target approaches its allies, moving away from you." "Flee? Flee from what? Since it's ambiguous, the target flees from its allies, moving towards you."
Also, if you use fancy words, there's a good chance the target doesn't know what that word means, and therefore cannot follow the command. So "deconcentrate" might work fine on wizards or artificers, but not so well on classes that aren't bookworms.
Also also, per Merriam-Webster: "to reduce or abolish the concentration of". I'll be happy reduce my concentration on the spell. But since the D&D rules regarding concentration make it a binary thing (either I'm concentrating or I'm not), concentrating less does exactly nothing.
Also^3, concentration is a game rule description, not necessarily the word (or the only word) used in-game to describe maintaining a spell by any particular caster. So they'll deconcentrate on something, but not necessarily drop the spell effect they are focused on.
This is silly. This same logic can be applied to the listed examples of the Command spell.
"Approach" per Merriam-Webster: "to draw closer to." Since the Command of "approach" never specifies by how much, the target moves 5 feet towards you and ends its turn!
Spell Dissonant chord. Bard plays a dissonant chord that disrupts the concentration of all enemies within 60 feet, forcing them to make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or lose concentration on their spells. I know this was a crazy idea I had for a game but would something like this be allowed in regular dnd games?
Not unless your DM is feeling permissive; while it doesn't spell it out, it's pretty clear that Command is meant to be constrained to regular vocabulary words, not attempts at hyphenating or portmanteau-ing a complex effect from the spell. If you want to make a target drop concentration, use Hideous Laughter; its' the same save at the same level and gets more bang for your buck.
Why not simply use the command “self-harm“ on them: (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/self-harm)? It’s a single, albeit hyphenated word that would cause each of them to do something that would at least force a concentration check. And it’s unambiguous.
So my DM has disallowed the word deconcentrate as a command after I upcasted it as a 3rd level on 3 enemy casters at the same time.
What do you think, valid use of command or not? I mean I could just have used a damage spell to force concentrations checks and command takes an action
I disagree with your DM just banning that phrase... but at the same time, "Deconcentrate" does not necessarily mean "Stop concentrating on a spell". They could interpret it to mean that they'll spread out from their current grouping, so that they are no longer concentrated in a small space. They could take it to mean paying less attention to whatever individual they've been targeting with attacks... it's a good idea for a single-sentence phrase. I think I would, personally, have the enemy make an intelligence check to determine if they're smart enough to know different possible interpretations of the command, but that's just me.
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Honestly, I'd just say you can't directly force a break in concentration via Command. It's not a concept you can really express in a single word, and the spell mostly involves physical actions in any case. For single target concentration breaking, Tasha's Hideous Laughter or Hold Person are good low level options. Hold Person can likewise scale to multiple targets, albeit slightly behind Command. And they're all WIS saves, so there's no variance in performance there.
In the same vein of what TDDS said, it could be interpreted in several ways. As a DM, I might be inclined to allow it but it cuts both ways. At that moment, I would pause the game and give them the option to make a choice as a group on whether to allow it or not, with them having the understanding that their own concentration spells are also at risk.
I've done this in the past. When I presented with my epic crit system to the table (where instead of rolling two damage dice or doubling the value of a single roll, I offered the option to allow crits to be still a single roll + the maximum value of the damage dice), the party was excited until I told them that the monsters they faced would also benefit from it. Suddenly the entire party loved RAW.
I do that whenever a player has loophole exploit actually. Seems to work rather nicely.
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I would allow the Command to Unconcentrate just fine.
Why not just "sleep"? Works fine on the Borg.
Also, if you use fancy words, there's a good chance the target doesn't know what that word means, and therefore cannot follow the command. So "deconcentrate" might work fine on wizards or artificers, but not so well on classes that aren't bookworms.
Also also, per Merriam-Webster: "to reduce or abolish the concentration of". I'll be happy reduce my concentration on the spell. But since the D&D rules regarding concentration make it a binary thing (either I'm concentrating or I'm not), concentrating less does exactly nothing.
Also^3, concentration is a game rule description, not necessarily the word (or the only word) used in-game to describe maintaining a spell by any particular caster. So they'll deconcentrate on something, but not necessarily drop the spell effect they are focused on.
I think your DM is perfectly within his right to not allow command to use made up (deconcentrate refers to concentration in the chemical/density sense, if anything) or rigged words (like when people attempt to use other random languages to bypass the one word command intent).
I agree with several other posters that "deconcentrate" is both vague and it is addressing rule mechanics rather than sounding like a reasonable direction or order.
I would suggest use a command like "Surrender", "Abandon", "Cease", "Acquiesce" , or "Capitulate". It would bolster your position if the command word would effect different types of creatures; so it doesn't sound you are only trying to target concentrating spellcasters.( i.e. an orge would cease grappling the party's rouge, or a group of archers put lower their bows. etc.)
The desired action of the target(s) is "Immediately stop any hostile or aggressive activity then ends its turn". I believe that is the outcome you are trying to achieve.
Note that “the DM determines how the target behaves”; this is not really a “mind control” spell in the sense that the caster is getting in the target’s head and directing their actions; it’s a quick and dirty directive to take some physical action, based on the target’s immediate understanding of the word. Imo when there’s this much wrangling over an effect another comparable spell can explicitly do, I’d honestly say you should just cede the point that you can only flex a spell so far.
I agree in principle, but it's worth noting that players don't speak Common. My players, for example, speak English. Yes, I recognize that this opens the door to arguments such as, "in Common they have a word that means give me all your gold and magic items, then surrender, turn your life around, stop being a bandit, train to become stronger, and find me in a year so you can work for me as an adventurer." But still.
While I do think figuring out fun ways to fenagle this spell is entertaining, you at least have to do it in a clever way.
"Deconcentrate" isn't a word that works in this way, and honestly you'd probably be better off just forcing them to do an activity they can't do while concentrating.
Make them dance or something.
RAW, unless you're hitting them with a condition that incapacitates, you can't really force them to drop concentration like that. A character can hold concentration while attacking, there's not really a plausible one-word activity that is more mentally demanding than that.
You've just never experienced truly soulful dancing, it sounds like. :P
I get what you mean, but I feel like even if it shouldn't work RAW that if you were able to be creative enough with Command it should be rewarded. (With limits.)
You have one word, and there's another spell at the same level targeting the same save to get a target to drop concentration. Creativity is good for illusions or terrain shaping stuff, but this is just pushing for more than the spell is meant to give.
I personally believe this is somewhat silly. The spell itself has several example words and their effects already listed, all of which can be interpreted in different ways so as to minimize effects on the target.
"Drop? Drop what? Drop myself and take fall damage? That's clearly directly harmful so the spell doesn't work." "Approach? Approach what? Since it's ambiguous, the target approaches its allies, moving away from you." "Flee? Flee from what? Since it's ambiguous, the target flees from its allies, moving towards you."
This is silly. This same logic can be applied to the listed examples of the Command spell.
"Approach" per Merriam-Webster: "to draw closer to." Since the Command of "approach" never specifies by how much, the target moves 5 feet towards you and ends its turn!
Spell Dissonant chord. Bard plays a dissonant chord that disrupts the concentration of all enemies within 60 feet, forcing them to make a DC 15 Constitution saving throw or lose concentration on their spells. I know this was a crazy idea I had for a game but would something like this be allowed in regular dnd games?
What if I give someone the command of “BlankMind”, could that cause a caster to drop concentration?
Not unless your DM is feeling permissive; while it doesn't spell it out, it's pretty clear that Command is meant to be constrained to regular vocabulary words, not attempts at hyphenating or portmanteau-ing a complex effect from the spell. If you want to make a target drop concentration, use Hideous Laughter; its' the same save at the same level and gets more bang for your buck.
Why not simply use the command “self-harm“ on them: (https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/self-harm)? It’s a single, albeit hyphenated word that would cause each of them to do something that would at least force a concentration check. And it’s unambiguous.
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