I am curious, because I am reading through the rules to make things grittier and I realised that things are already a bit grittier than I realised!
The current rules, by my reading state that:
1: You can spend your Hit Dice on a Short Rest, to heal a roll + con mod of HP. That I knew.
2: When you finish a Long Rest, you regain half of the Hit Dice you have left.
This means that if you have used all but 2 healing on short rests yesterday, you only regain 1! This means that over several days, you will find yourself needing to recharge your hit dice for short rests, which is more or less what I was aiming for with my own rules ( I still like mine, so will finish them!)
This was news to me - I had always played that you recover half your Hit Dice total (IE, half your level) on a Long Rest, not half the Hit Dice you have left!
Is this news to anyone else? Am I just bad at reading? Answer in the Poll!
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
I interpret "total number of them" to be your hit dice total. Which would be half your level, no?
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
I interpret "total number of them" to be your hit dice total. Which would be half your level, no?
It's a little ambiguous, but reading it as english, it's half the number you have, not half the number you had - otherwise it would just say "half your level". Spending Hit Dice means you no longer have them, doesn't it?
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
I interpret "total number of them" to be your hit dice total. Which would be half your level, no?
It's a little ambiguous, but reading it as english, it's half the number you have, not half the number you had - otherwise it would just say "half your level". Spending Hit Dice means you no longer have them, doesn't it?
I think the way to read it is that you always have a certain number of hit dice, some of them may be spent and some of them not. If your interpretation were true, and someone used all of their hit dice on a certain day, they would never be able to regain any (at least not until they gained a new level and therefore a new, unused hit die).
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
I interpret "total number of them" to be your hit dice total. Which would be half your level, no?
It's a little ambiguous, but reading it as english, it's half the number you have, not half the number you had - otherwise it would just say "half your level". Spending Hit Dice means you no longer have them, doesn't it?
I think the way to read it is that you always have a certain number of hit dice, some of them may be spent and some of them not. If your interpretation were true, and someone used all of their hit dice on a certain day, they would never be able to regain any (at least not until they gained a new level and therefore a new, unused hit die).
Unless they wrote in "minimum of 1", which they did, which would either be because of level 1, or for that exact reason!
So, the short rest hit die mechanic replaced magical healing for the most part.
You are supposed to spend hit dice to replace lost hit points as best you can and then you get one half your total level of hit dice back each long rest. Like so:
1st Level - 1 hit die
2nd Level - 1 ht die
3rd Level - 2 ht dice
4th Leve - 2 hit dice
5th Level - 3 hit dice
6th Level - 3 hit dice
it isn't the total "you have left", it is the total of your hit dice -- roughly half your level, rounded up.
This is important -- let's say you are a 12th level PC, and after a hard fight and short rest you have spent 7 of your hit dice to recover. After a single long rest, you only get back 6 of them,. This demonstrates the lingering effects of combat, and force a light resource mechanic on the players.
On the other hand, if you want to make healing more important in your game, take out the hit die mechanic as a whole -- because it is a basic healing cheat.
Edit...
This made me think about how how I handled it, given I had boosted the power of healing as a whole. My resting system is far less "up and at 'em", and presumes that healing will be available, and ties into the need for downtime.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
I interpret "total number of them" to be your hit dice total. Which would be half your level, no?
It's a little ambiguous, but reading it as english, it's half the number you have, not half the number you had - otherwise it would just say "half your level". Spending Hit Dice means you no longer have them, doesn't it?
No, that's very incorrect. You still have them. That's why they distinguish between spent and unspent Hit Dice
I mean, the rule literally includes an example that disproves your interpretation. "For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest."
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
I interpret "total number of them" to be your hit dice total. Which would be half your level, no?
It's a little ambiguous, but reading it as english, it's half the number you have, not half the number you had - otherwise it would just say "half your level". Spending Hit Dice means you no longer have them, doesn't it?
In a case of ambiguity where literally everyone has interpreted it differently and the game seems to function at the intended pace, the burden would be on you to prove that the established interpretation is incorrect. I don't think you've done that here.
So originally I was in camp "It's obvious it's half your total (ie maximum) number of hit dice, that's what total means", but now I'm unsure. The reason for my uncertainty is the wording of the Sleeping in Armor rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, which says:
you regain only one quarter of your spent Hit Dice (minimum of one die).
This means one of three things:
The long rest rule in the Basic Rules is unclear and RAI you regain half your spent hit dice (minimum of 1) - this is based on the wording of the Xanathar's rule saying 'only' as if it's replacing just the fractional value (one half becomes one quarter)
The sleeping in armor rule from Xanathar's is incorrectly worded and should say "you regain only one quarter of your total Hit Dice (minimum of one die) - this is based on the fairly clear (at first blush) wording of the long rest rule that says total hit dice.
The two rules operate differently; a long rest out of armor is 1/2 total (maximum number) but a long rest in armor is 1/4 spent making sleeping in armor even more punishing - this is technically a valid way to read the rules, but doesn't quite feel right
If I was to personally rate the likelihood of which interpretation is correct, it'd be 2 > 1 > 3, but I can't find anything external to support any of them above the others.
It should also be noted that the way D&D Beyond does it is long rests restore half your maximum, not spent. This is not to say DDB is the final authority on the rules, but this feels like something that'd get spotted very quickly by someone with some authority on the topic if it was wrong.
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The long rest rule in the Basic Rules is unclear and RAI you regain half your spent hit dice (minimum of 1) - this is based on the wording of the Xanathar's rule saying 'only' as if it's replacing just the fractional value (one half becomes one quarter)
Except that Thoruk's interpretation is that on a normal long rest, you regain half of your unspent Hit Dice, not half your spent Hit Dice
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Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
The question is what does "them" refer to. The first sentance implies it is spent hit dice so if a level 8 character ends the day with 6 spent hit dice and 2 unspent hit dice they regain 3. However the 2nd sentence refers to "Hit Dice" not "spent hit dice" which implies that you would regain 3.
If you only regain half youe spent hit dice you will never all your hit dice unspent becasue even if you only have spent hit dice you do not get it back after a long rest.
The OP thinking you only regain half the hit dice you have left (regain a number of hit dice equal to half your unspent hit dice) is incorrect as it does not fit either of these possibilities.
For the record I play that you recover half your total hit dice on a long rest.
My question would be: Can you get additional hit dice from any source in the official rules?
The wording seems to specifically avoid saying "You regain hit dice equal to half your level", which is what it would equate to if it does mean that.
I guess the biggest question is, this character in the example, do they have 8 hit dice because they are level 8, so can recover 4, or do they have 8 hit dice left and can recover 4 on top of that (up to 12)?
Saying they can "Regain spent hit dice" implies that the dice have been lost, thereby impliying the latter - they have 8 left and can regain up to 4 spent ones. This means the healthier you are, the easier you recover. Makes running out a slippery slope which you need to recover from (0 to 1, 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 6, 6 to 9, 9 to 13, 13 to 19, 19 to 20).
Considering if you take a long rest on a D&DB character sheet it will restore half of your total hit die, I'd say it's pretty clear that RAI is half your total, even if the language in the PHB/BR is a bit ambiguous.
I interpret "total number of them" to be your hit dice total. Which would be half your level, no?
You cannot necessarily equate a character's level number to how many hit dice they have. For example, back in the day a Level 1 Ranger had two hit dice iirc. You never know if some future 5e supplementary book will be published with a new class that has an unorthodox growth of hit dice. Therefore, none of these features refers directly to the character's level.
You are supposed to spend hit dice to replace lost hit points as best you can and then you get one half your total level of hit dice back each long rest. Like so:
1st Level - 1 hit die
2nd Level - 1 ht die
3rd Level - 2 ht dice
4th Leve - 2 hit dice
5th Level - 3 hit dice
6th Level - 3 hit dice
it isn't the total "you have left", it is the total of your hit dice -- roughly half your level, rounded up.
This is the idea, but not quite right. First (as above), the feature isn't actually linked to the character level in any way -- instead, it is based on the total number of hit dice.
Second, there is this general 5e rule:
Round Down
There’s one more general rule you need to know at the outset. Whenever you divide a number in the game, round down if you end up with a fraction, even if the fraction is one-half or greater.
There is nothing in the more specific resting rules that would contradict this. Therefore, it works like this:
So originally I was in camp "It's obvious it's half your total (ie maximum) number of hit dice, that's what total means", but now I'm unsure. The reason for my uncertainty is the wording of the Sleeping in Armor rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, which says:
you regain only one quarter of your spent Hit Dice (minimum of one die).
This means one of three things:
. . .
. . .
The two rules operate differently; a long rest out of armor is 1/2 total (maximum number) but a long rest in armor is 1/4 spent making sleeping in armor even more punishing - this is technically a valid way to read the rules, but doesn't quite feel right
It may not feel right, but this option 3 is the correct answer. The default rule for resting and the supplementary rule for sleeping in armor are simply written differently and function differently. It may or may not be intended, but those are the rules as written. Your original interpretation of "It's obvious it's half your total (ie maximum) number of hit dice, that's what total means" is the correct interpretation.
The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
The question is what does "them" refer to.
In that sentence, "them" refers to "dice". The character's total number of dice. In my opinion there is a lot of ambiguity throughout the 5e rules -- this is not one of them.
Saying they can "Regain spent hit dice" implies that the dice have been lost, thereby implying the latter - they have 8 left and can regain up to 4 spent ones.
No, it doesn't imply this at all. These words have meaning in the game. "Spent" is not the same as "lost". These are resources we are talking about here -- the vernacular of "spending" a resource has a certain meaning. For example, you can "spend" a spell slot when you cast a spell, but the spell slot itself is not permanently lost. If you have 12 hit dice, and you are playing in person, you can literally put 12 actual dice on the table in a certain spot. When you roll one of them to use the resource, you don't permanently remove a die -- that would potentially affect your HP total and all sorts of stuff. You just mark that die as being "spent" -- perhaps you move it into a "spent" bin next to your character sheet, which eventually gets replenished later on in accordance with the rules. But if at any time during gameplay you need to know your total number of hit dice, they are all still there on the table (or just marked on your character sheet).
on a long rest, they recover to full hit points and at least 1 hit die, so yes.
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Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Following this rule your way. For instance, you are at level 8 so you have 8 roll dice. If you spend 4 during short rests you remain with 4. Now you get 2 back (half of what you have left) after a long rest meaning you have 6 left. Now you can have another long rest to get 3 more and go back to your 8 max without any short rest or spend more points in short rest but this way at some point you will always go down to one hit point. From there you can just get consecutive long rests to go back up and it means you would need 4 long rests 32hours to go back to 8 which is a lot of down time to me.
If you instead get half of your max dice means a level 8 needs 2 long rests maximum to gain all his points back regardless how many hit dice he has left which sounds way more reasonable to me
The long rest rules is clear to me you regain a number based on the total HD, so if you have spent any number of Hit Hice, you regain up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). The exemple further support this notion '' For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest''
Your number of Hit Dice never change during rest, a L8 character has 8 HD wether it spends them all during short rest or not. That's why the exemple in long rest is worded that way.
It's sort of like hit points, your hit points maximum never changes while your current hit points fluctuate.
Hit Points and Hit Dice: Also record the type of Hit Die your character uses and the number of Hit Dice you have. After you rest, you can spend Hit Dice to regain hit points.
Short Rest: A character can spend one or more Hit Dice at the end of a short rest, up to the character's maximum number of Hit Dice, which is equal to the character's level. For each Hit Die spent in this way, the player rolls the die and adds the character's Constitution modifier to it. The character regains hit points equal to the total (minimum of 0). The player can decide to spend an additional Hit Die after each roll. A character regains some spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest, as explained below.
Long Rest: At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
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I am curious, because I am reading through the rules to make things grittier and I realised that things are already a bit grittier than I realised!
The current rules, by my reading state that:
1: You can spend your Hit Dice on a Short Rest, to heal a roll + con mod of HP. That I knew.
2: When you finish a Long Rest, you regain half of the Hit Dice you have left.
This means that if you have used all but 2 healing on short rests yesterday, you only regain 1! This means that over several days, you will find yourself needing to recharge your hit dice for short rests, which is more or less what I was aiming for with my own rules ( I still like mine, so will finish them!)
This was news to me - I had always played that you recover half your Hit Dice total (IE, half your level) on a Long Rest, not half the Hit Dice you have left!
Is this news to anyone else? Am I just bad at reading? Answer in the Poll!
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I'm not sure this is true? From the basic rules:
At the end of a long rest, a character regains all lost hit points. The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
I interpret "total number of them" to be your hit dice total. Which would be half your level, no?
It's a little ambiguous, but reading it as english, it's half the number you have, not half the number you had - otherwise it would just say "half your level". Spending Hit Dice means you no longer have them, doesn't it?
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I think the way to read it is that you always have a certain number of hit dice, some of them may be spent and some of them not. If your interpretation were true, and someone used all of their hit dice on a certain day, they would never be able to regain any (at least not until they gained a new level and therefore a new, unused hit die).
Unless they wrote in "minimum of 1", which they did, which would either be because of level 1, or for that exact reason!
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So, the short rest hit die mechanic replaced magical healing for the most part.
You are supposed to spend hit dice to replace lost hit points as best you can and then you get one half your total level of hit dice back each long rest. Like so:
it isn't the total "you have left", it is the total of your hit dice -- roughly half your level, rounded up.
This is important -- let's say you are a 12th level PC, and after a hard fight and short rest you have spent 7 of your hit dice to recover. After a single long rest, you only get back 6 of them,. This demonstrates the lingering effects of combat, and force a light resource mechanic on the players.
On the other hand, if you want to make healing more important in your game, take out the hit die mechanic as a whole -- because it is a basic healing cheat.
Edit...
This made me think about how how I handled it, given I had boosted the power of healing as a whole. My resting system is far less "up and at 'em", and presumes that healing will be available, and ties into the need for downtime.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
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No, that's very incorrect. You still have them. That's why they distinguish between spent and unspent Hit Dice
I mean, the rule literally includes an example that disproves your interpretation. "For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest."
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
In a case of ambiguity where literally everyone has interpreted it differently and the game seems to function at the intended pace, the burden would be on you to prove that the established interpretation is incorrect. I don't think you've done that here.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
So originally I was in camp "It's obvious it's half your total (ie maximum) number of hit dice, that's what total means", but now I'm unsure. The reason for my uncertainty is the wording of the Sleeping in Armor rule in Xanathar's Guide to Everything, which says:
This means one of three things:
If I was to personally rate the likelihood of which interpretation is correct, it'd be 2 > 1 > 3, but I can't find anything external to support any of them above the others.
It should also be noted that the way D&D Beyond does it is long rests restore half your maximum, not spent. This is not to say DDB is the final authority on the rules, but this feels like something that'd get spotted very quickly by someone with some authority on the topic if it was wrong.
Except that Thoruk's interpretation is that on a normal long rest, you regain half of your unspent Hit Dice, not half your spent Hit Dice
Active characters:
Green Hill Sunrise, jaded tabaxi mercenary trapped in the Dark Domains (Battle Master fighter)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
The character also regains spent Hit Dice, up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest.
The question is what does "them" refer to. The first sentance implies it is spent hit dice so if a level 8 character ends the day with 6 spent hit dice and 2 unspent hit dice they regain 3. However the 2nd sentence refers to "Hit Dice" not "spent hit dice" which implies that you would regain 3.
If you only regain half youe spent hit dice you will never all your hit dice unspent becasue even if you only have spent hit dice you do not get it back after a long rest.
The OP thinking you only regain half the hit dice you have left (regain a number of hit dice equal to half your unspent hit dice) is incorrect as it does not fit either of these possibilities.
For the record I play that you recover half your total hit dice on a long rest.
My question would be: Can you get additional hit dice from any source in the official rules?
The wording seems to specifically avoid saying "You regain hit dice equal to half your level", which is what it would equate to if it does mean that.
I guess the biggest question is, this character in the example, do they have 8 hit dice because they are level 8, so can recover 4, or do they have 8 hit dice left and can recover 4 on top of that (up to 12)?
Saying they can "Regain spent hit dice" implies that the dice have been lost, thereby impliying the latter - they have 8 left and can regain up to 4 spent ones. This means the healthier you are, the easier you recover. Makes running out a slippery slope which you need to recover from (0 to 1, 1 to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to 4, 4 to 6, 6 to 9, 9 to 13, 13 to 19, 19 to 20).
Make your Artificer work with any other class with 174 Multiclassing Feats for your Artificer Multiclass Character!
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Considering if you take a long rest on a D&DB character sheet it will restore half of your total hit die, I'd say it's pretty clear that RAI is half your total, even if the language in the PHB/BR is a bit ambiguous.
You cannot necessarily equate a character's level number to how many hit dice they have. For example, back in the day a Level 1 Ranger had two hit dice iirc. You never know if some future 5e supplementary book will be published with a new class that has an unorthodox growth of hit dice. Therefore, none of these features refers directly to the character's level.
It's because of level 1. Or, more accurately (given my above point) it's because of when you only have a total of 1 hit die.
This is the idea, but not quite right. First (as above), the feature isn't actually linked to the character level in any way -- instead, it is based on the total number of hit dice.
Second, there is this general 5e rule:
There is nothing in the more specific resting rules that would contradict this. Therefore, it works like this:
It may not feel right, but this option 3 is the correct answer. The default rule for resting and the supplementary rule for sleeping in armor are simply written differently and function differently. It may or may not be intended, but those are the rules as written. Your original interpretation of "It's obvious it's half your total (ie maximum) number of hit dice, that's what total means" is the correct interpretation.
In that sentence, "them" refers to "dice". The character's total number of dice. In my opinion there is a lot of ambiguity throughout the 5e rules -- this is not one of them.
No, it doesn't imply this at all. These words have meaning in the game. "Spent" is not the same as "lost". These are resources we are talking about here -- the vernacular of "spending" a resource has a certain meaning. For example, you can "spend" a spell slot when you cast a spell, but the spell slot itself is not permanently lost. If you have 12 hit dice, and you are playing in person, you can literally put 12 actual dice on the table in a certain spot. When you roll one of them to use the resource, you don't permanently remove a die -- that would potentially affect your HP total and all sorts of stuff. You just mark that die as being "spent" -- perhaps you move it into a "spent" bin next to your character sheet, which eventually gets replenished later on in accordance with the rules. But if at any time during gameplay you need to know your total number of hit dice, they are all still there on the table (or just marked on your character sheet).
do lvl 1 pcs gain 1 hit dice per long rest?
in a hole in the ground you notice a halfling
on a long rest, they recover to full hit points and at least 1 hit die, so yes.
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An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
Following this rule your way. For instance, you are at level 8 so you have 8 roll dice. If you spend 4 during short rests you remain with 4. Now you get 2 back (half of what you have left) after a long rest meaning you have 6 left. Now you can have another long rest to get 3 more and go back to your 8 max without any short rest or spend more points in short rest but this way at some point you will always go down to one hit point. From there you can just get consecutive long rests to go back up and it means you would need 4 long rests 32hours to go back to 8 which is a lot of down time to me.
If you instead get half of your max dice means a level 8 needs 2 long rests maximum to gain all his points back regardless how many hit dice he has left which sounds way more reasonable to me
The long rest rules is clear to me you regain a number based on the total HD, so if you have spent any number of Hit Hice, you regain up to a number of dice equal to half of the character's total number of them (minimum of one die). The exemple further support this notion '' For example, if a character has eight Hit Dice, he or she can regain four spent Hit Dice upon finishing a long rest''
1 HD max = 1 HD regained
2 HD max = 1 HD regained
3 HD max = 1 HD regained
4 HD max = 2 HD regained
5 HD max = 2 HD regained
6 HD max = 3 HD regained
7 HD max = 3 HD regained
8 HD max = 4 HD regained
9 HD max = 4 HD regained
10 HD max = 5 HD regained
11 HD max = 5 HD regained
12 HD max = 6 HD regained
13 HD max = 6 HD regained
14 HD max = 7 HD regained
15 HD max = 7 HD regained
16 HD max = 8 HD regained
17 HD max = 8 HD regained
18 HD max = 9 HD regained
19 HD max = 9 HD regained
20 HD max = 10 HD regained
While I agree with you I see thew ambiguity the OP brought up.
The key this is whether when you use a hit dice you are left with a used hit dice or whether the hit dice is lost.
If a level 8 character has used 4 hit dice the OP believes they have 4 hit dice. I believe they still have 8 hit dice but 4 are used and 4 are unused.
Your number of Hit Dice never change during rest, a L8 character has 8 HD wether it spends them all during short rest or not. That's why the exemple in long rest is worded that way.
It's sort of like hit points, your hit points maximum never changes while your current hit points fluctuate.