Just trying to see if I've got this right in regard to swimming movement. Everyone can swim, but unless one has a swim speed, they swim at 1/2 the rate of their normal speed. And to clarify further, the Mobile feat doesn't affect swimming speed unless you have a swim speed?
Climbing, Swimming, and Crawling Each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot (2 extra feet in difficult terrain) when you’re climbing, swimming, or crawling. You ignore this extra cost if you have a climbing speed and use it to climb or a swimming speed and use it to swim. At the DM’s option, climbing a slippery vertical surface or one with few handholds requires a successful Strength (Athletics) check. Similarly, gaining any distance in rough water might require a successful Strength (Athletics) check.
RAW, calm water, for example, is not considered difficult terrain per se, and each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot. For that reason, the Mobile feat doesn't apply to Dash in this example of calm water, but you benefit of the rest of the points when swimming:
You are exceptionally speedy and agile. You gain the following benefits:
Your speed increases by 10 feet.
When you use the Dash action, difficult terrain doesn't cost you extra movement on that turn.
When you make a melee attack against a creature, you don't provoke opportunity attacks from that creature for the rest of the turn, whether you hit or not.
However, if that water were considered difficult terrain for any reason, then the Mobile feat would be useful when dashing.
EDIT: my first answer only referred to dashing. I've updated the reply to include the rest of the benefits.
Why wouldn’t Mobile apply in this case? Swimming, climbing and crawling speed are all function of your walking speed. Unless otherwise stated, when you increase your walking speed to 40’ then each foot of movement while swimming, climbing or crawling nets you 20’ in regular terrain or 10’ in difficult terrain (1/3 of 40’ rounded down).
Is the contention that Haste, Longstrider, monk and barbarian Fast Movement and any other spell effects, items, class abilities etc. that increase your walking speed do not apply to swimming, climbing and crawling? If not, then what makes other walking speed increases applicable but not the one from Mobile? If so, then why do some, such as the barbarian elk totem and Boots of Speed, specify they increase walking speed only?
Unless stated otherwise, you don't have a swim speed naturally. RAW says you can swim but not as naturally as walking, hence the 2 movement for one mechanism. Mobility gives you extra movement for your speed. It doesn't give you extra abilities. That's how I read it.
You bring up a good point about difficult terrain which I had considered. And RAW you are correct. I don't however see the practical application. If you have 2 movement for swimming per 1 for walking speed, because you don't have a swim speed, I don't see in a practical sense how making the water 'difficult terrain - think swimming up stream, against the tide etc', would suddenly allow mobility to kick in.
Mobile does a number of things. Each is affected separately by water. 1. Increases speed by 10 feet: Affects swimming speed. Still gets used at the 2:1 ratio without a swim speed, but contributes to your overall movement regardless. 2. Removes effects of difficult terrain on your turn when you Dash: Affects only difficult terrain in water (so the 3:1 movement would revert to water's normal 2:1 if you Dash). 3. Effect of removing opportunity attacks against you: Still applies as it would on land.
Unless stated otherwise, you don't have a swim speed naturally. RAW says you can swim but not as naturally as walking, hence the 2 movement for one mechanism. Mobility gives you extra movement for your speed. It doesn't give you extra abilities. That's how I read it.
Mobile Note the first bullet point in the feat “Your speed increases by 10 feet”
At level 20, a human monk’s speed is 60’. Without a swim speed, how far can that monk swim in one round? If the same monk has the Mobile feat, their speed is 70’. How far can they swim in one round without a swim speed?
Mobile Note the first bullet point in the feat “Your speed increases by 10 feet”
At level 20, a human monk’s speed is 60’. Without a swim speed, how far can that monk swim in one round? If the same monk has the Mobile feat, their speed is 70’. How far can they swim in one round without a swim speed?
First case, they can swim 30 ft in a round. Second case, 35 ft.
Mobile Note the first bullet point in the feat “Your speed increases by 10 feet”
At level 20, a human monk’s speed is 60’. Without a swim speed, how far can that monk swim in one round? If the same monk has the Mobile feat, their speed is 70’. How far can they swim in one round without a swim speed?
First case, they can swim 30 ft in a round. Second case, 35 ft.
Precisely. Furthermore, I contend that, should monk use his action, bonus action or spend a ki point to dash, they would not be affected by difficult terrain as per the second bullet point. Maybe the monk is swimming through some tight caves or near a dangerous coral reef. And if the monk engaged in underwater combat, when they would normally provoke an AoO for their movement, they would not as per the third bullet point.
A creature with a swim speed doesn’t have to spend extra movement to swim. There are implications in combat as well, certain types of attacks are made at disadvantage and the range of all ranged weapons is severely hampered. I’m unaware of anything regarding a restriction on feats.
You bring up a good point about difficult terrain which I had considered. And RAW you are correct. I don't however see the practical application. If you have 2 movement for swimming per 1 for walking speed, because you don't have a swim speed, I don't see in a practical sense how making the water 'difficult terrain - think swimming up stream, against the tide etc', would suddenly allow mobility to kick in.
I guess it's because with Mobile, "you are exceptionally speedy and agile" in difficult terrain, regardless of the specific terrain. For example, water with thorny vines, and then you're good avoiding those vines.
It might seem strange, but that's how the interaction works according to the rules.
Water is not considered difficult terrain despite costing 1 extra foot like them. Some effects effectively cost 1 to 4 extra feet to move such as crawling, Plant Growth, Wall of Thorns, Etherealness or Gust of Wind without being considered difficult terrain for example so they aren't subject to game features specifically ignoring difficult terrain.
Interested to hear others' opinions on a character with a Swim Speed that is wearing Heavy Armor, for example a water genasi cleric in full plate. Could the creature still maintain its normal movement speed while swimming in heavy armor, or would that weight be an obstacle that would unavoidably slow the character down?
Interested to hear others' opinions on a character with a Swim Speed that is wearing Heavy Armor, for example a water genasi cleric in full plate. Could the creature still maintain its normal movement speed while swimming in heavy armor, or would that weight be an obstacle that would unavoidably slow the character down?
Dnd doesn't cover physics like that. It'd be up to your DM to decide if it affected swimming in anyway.
Interested to hear others' opinions on a character with a Swim Speed that is wearing Heavy Armor, for example a water genasi cleric in full plate. Could the creature still maintain its normal movement speed while swimming in heavy armor, or would that weight be an obstacle that would unavoidably slow the character down?
D&D 3.x applied armor check penalties to several skills, including swimming (the penalty for swimming might have even been doubled). In 5e, the penalty was just reduced to Stealth or no penalty. So in the 5.0 upgrade, armor became more maneuverable and buoyant, but no less noisy.
Interested to hear others' opinions on a character with a Swim Speed that is wearing Heavy Armor, for example a water genasi cleric in full plate. Could the creature still maintain its normal movement speed while swimming in heavy armor, or would that weight be an obstacle that would unavoidably slow the character down?
I remembered this example from an official adventure (The Wild Beyond the Witchlight), in case it's interesting for you:
[...] On a failed save, the creature plunges 35 feet into the 20-foot-deep lake surrounding the cottage, taking no damage. A character who falls into the lake while wearing heavy armor sinks to the bottom but can, on their turn, swim to the surface with a successful DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check.
At least in this adventure, you can swim while wearing heavy armor, but it requires a Strength (Athletics) check.
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Just trying to see if I've got this right in regard to swimming movement. Everyone can swim, but unless one has a swim speed, they swim at 1/2 the rate of their normal speed. And to clarify further, the Mobile feat doesn't affect swimming speed unless you have a swim speed?
From the PHB:
RAW, calm water, for example, is not considered difficult terrain per se, and each foot of movement costs 1 extra foot. For that reason, the Mobile feat doesn't apply to Dash in this example of calm water, but you benefit of the rest of the points when swimming:
However, if that water were considered difficult terrain for any reason, then the Mobile feat would be useful when dashing.
EDIT: my first answer only referred to dashing. I've updated the reply to include the rest of the benefits.
Why wouldn’t Mobile apply in this case? Swimming, climbing and crawling speed are all function of your walking speed. Unless otherwise stated, when you increase your walking speed to 40’ then each foot of movement while swimming, climbing or crawling nets you 20’ in regular terrain or 10’ in difficult terrain (1/3 of 40’ rounded down).
Is the contention that Haste, Longstrider, monk and barbarian Fast Movement and any other spell effects, items, class abilities etc. that increase your walking speed do not apply to swimming, climbing and crawling? If not, then what makes other walking speed increases applicable but not the one from Mobile? If so, then why do some, such as the barbarian elk totem and Boots of Speed, specify they increase walking speed only?
Unless stated otherwise, you don't have a swim speed naturally. RAW says you can swim but not as naturally as walking, hence the 2 movement for one mechanism. Mobility gives you extra movement for your speed. It doesn't give you extra abilities. That's how I read it.
You bring up a good point about difficult terrain which I had considered. And RAW you are correct. I don't however see the practical application. If you have 2 movement for swimming per 1 for walking speed, because you don't have a swim speed, I don't see in a practical sense how making the water 'difficult terrain - think swimming up stream, against the tide etc', would suddenly allow mobility to kick in.
On Mobile and swimming:
Mobile does a number of things. Each is affected separately by water.
1. Increases speed by 10 feet: Affects swimming speed. Still gets used at the 2:1 ratio without a swim speed, but contributes to your overall movement regardless.
2. Removes effects of difficult terrain on your turn when you Dash: Affects only difficult terrain in water (so the 3:1 movement would revert to water's normal 2:1 if you Dash).
3. Effect of removing opportunity attacks against you: Still applies as it would on land.
Mobile Note the first bullet point in the feat “Your speed increases by 10 feet”
At level 20, a human monk’s speed is 60’. Without a swim speed, how far can that monk swim in one round? If the same monk has the Mobile feat, their speed is 70’. How far can they swim in one round without a swim speed?
First case, they can swim 30 ft in a round. Second case, 35 ft.
Precisely. Furthermore, I contend that, should monk use his action, bonus action or spend a ki point to dash, they would not be affected by difficult terrain as per the second bullet point. Maybe the monk is swimming through some tight caves or near a dangerous coral reef. And if the monk engaged in underwater combat, when they would normally provoke an AoO for their movement, they would not as per the third bullet point.
A creature with a swim speed doesn’t have to spend extra movement to swim. There are implications in combat as well, certain types of attacks are made at disadvantage and the range of all ranged weapons is severely hampered. I’m unaware of anything regarding a restriction on feats.
I guess it's because with Mobile, "you are exceptionally speedy and agile" in difficult terrain, regardless of the specific terrain. For example, water with thorny vines, and then you're good avoiding those vines.
It might seem strange, but that's how the interaction works according to the rules.
Water is not considered difficult terrain despite costing 1 extra foot like them. Some effects effectively cost 1 to 4 extra feet to move such as crawling, Plant Growth, Wall of Thorns, Etherealness or Gust of Wind without being considered difficult terrain for example so they aren't subject to game features specifically ignoring difficult terrain.
Interested to hear others' opinions on a character with a Swim Speed that is wearing Heavy Armor, for example a water genasi cleric in full plate. Could the creature still maintain its normal movement speed while swimming in heavy armor, or would that weight be an obstacle that would unavoidably slow the character down?
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Dnd doesn't cover physics like that. It'd be up to your DM to decide if it affected swimming in anyway.
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D&D 3.x applied armor check penalties to several skills, including swimming (the penalty for swimming might have even been doubled). In 5e, the penalty was just reduced to Stealth or no penalty. So in the 5.0 upgrade, armor became more maneuverable and buoyant, but no less noisy.
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My houserulings.
I remembered this example from an official adventure (The Wild Beyond the Witchlight), in case it's interesting for you:
[...] On a failed save, the creature plunges 35 feet into the 20-foot-deep lake surrounding the cottage, taking no damage. A character who falls into the lake while wearing heavy armor sinks to the bottom but can, on their turn, swim to the surface with a successful DC 10 Strength (Athletics) check.
At least in this adventure, you can swim while wearing heavy armor, but it requires a Strength (Athletics) check.