Multiattack has always been a different action and nothing in the 2024 PHB says otherwise. This has been cleared up several times over the years, just Ctrl+F in Sage Advice Compendium for examples.
Multiattack has always been a different action and nothing in the 2024 PHB says otherwise. This has been cleared up several times over the years, just Ctrl+F in Sage Advice Compendium for examples.
Okay so you believe a wildshaped druid also cannot move between attacks?
Claw.Melee Attack Roll: +5, reach 5 ft. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) Slashing damage, and the target has the Prone condition if it is Huge or smaller.
It can take any of the generic actions it wants like Dodge, Dash or Hide. Or it can take the Attack Action and then it gets to choose between making a bite or claw attack (it hasn't got Extra Attack so it only gets one). Or it can take the Multiattack Action and then it gets to make one of each (because that's what its Multiattack says, other monsters have a differently worded Multiattack). However Multiattack is its own specific action (just the same as Wildshape is the Druids specific action that allows it to transform into the bear) and it should in no way be confused with the generic Attack Action.
Claw.Melee Attack Roll: +5, reach 5 ft. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) Slashing damage, and the target has the Prone condition if it is Huge or smaller.
It can take any of the generic actions it wants like Dodge, Dash or Hide. Or it can take the Attack Action and then it gets to choose between making a bite or claw attack (it hasn't got Extra Attack so it only gets one). Or it can take the Multiattack Action and then it gets to make one of each (because that's what its Multiattack says, other monsters have a differently worded Multiattack). However Multiattack is its own specific action just the same as Wildshape is the Druids specific action that allows it to transform into the bear.
I really have no idea where you are getting that from. There is no step of combat called the multiattack. I couldn't even find it in sage advice.
I really have no idea where you are getting that from. There is no step of combat called the multiattack. I couldn't even find it in sage advice.
Just read the statblock, it is right there. There is no step of combat called "Wildshape" or "Flurry of Blows" either but that doesn't stop those from being actions/bonus actions that are commonly taken.
I really have no idea where you are getting that from. There is no step of combat called the multiattack. I couldn't even find it in sage advice.
Just read the statblock, it is right there. There is no step of combat called "Wildshape" or "Flurry of Blows" either but that doesn't stop those from being actions/bonus actions that are commonly taken.
Correct, wildshape introduces the bonus action step of combat. There is no Flurry of blows action or wildshape action.
From the 2014 Basic Rules, which contains free portions of the Monster Manual:
Actions
When a monster takes its action, it can choose from the options in the Actions section of its stat block or use one of the actions available to all creatures, such as the Dash or Hide action.
...
Multiattack
A creature that can make multiple attacks on its turn has the Multiattack action. A creature can't use Multiattack when making an opportunity attack, which must be a single melee attack.
Claw.Melee Attack Roll: +5, reach 5 ft. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) Slashing damage, and the target has the Prone condition if it is Huge or smaller.
It can take any of the generic actions it wants like Dodge, Dash or Hide. Or it can take the Attack Action and then it gets to choose between making a bite or claw attack (it hasn't got Extra Attack so it only gets one). Or it can take the Multiattack Action and then it gets to make one of each (because that's what its Multiattack says, other monsters have a differently worded Multiattack). However Multiattack is its own specific action just the same as Wildshape is the Druids specific action that allows it to transform into the bear.
I really have no idea where you are getting that from. There is no step of combat called the multiattack. I couldn't even find it in sage advice.
If it helps in the debate... if not, please ignore me 😅
Keep in mind that the grappling rule in the Player’s Handbook requires the Attack action, so a creature must take that action—rather than Multiattack or another action in the creature’s stat block—when it uses that rule. A monster, such as a roper, that has a special grappling attack doesn’t follow that rule when using its special attack.
There's this line about breaking up movement from the OP that no one is mentioning.
Moving between Attacks. If you move on your turn and have a feature, such as Extra Attack, that gives you more than one attack as part of the Attack action, you can use some or all of that movement to move between those attacks.
Multiattack seems like it fits perfectly within this rule. Its a feature that give you more than one attack. I guess we're saying that multiattack isn't RAW an Attack action therefore it doesn't count?
Eh, yeah technically you're correct. Maybe this matters in something like league play but I'd rule and advocate to be ruled at any table I'm at for an interpretation that allows for movement. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets errated.
I'm sure it was an oversight. I'm just going to keep using the 2014 rules for this until I hear official word from the designers that they intentionally changed it. Come to think of it, I won't change even then.
Multiattack does a few things that probably weren't intended. I suspect the real target was spells that grant multiple attacks, no more moving between eldritch blasts or scorching rays.
Yeah, this has been a source of confusion for a lot of people for a long time now . . .
The Attack action (with the capital A) is a specific action that you can take on your turn and there are rules written for what you can do when you take this particular action.
An Attack action is NOT an attack. When you see a phrase like "make an attack", that is not the same thing as "taking the Attack action".
For example, there is a rule within the Combat section called "Making an Attack", which starts like this:
When you take the Attack action, you make an attack. Some other actions, Bonus Actions, and Reactions also let you make an attack. Whether you strike with a Melee weapon, fire a Ranged weapon, or make an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has the following structure:
So, there are all sorts of times and various ways that you can make an attack in the game. Taking the Attack action is one such way, because the rule for that particular action says this:
When you take the Attack action, you can make one attack roll with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
There are also additional rules associated with this particular action that relate to Equipping and Unequipping Weapons and Moving between Attacks. These are all rules which describe what happens when you take the particular action that is called the Attack action.
Even though this base (general) rule says that you can make one attack roll, there are specific (exception) rules which modify this, such as the rule for Extra Attack.
In the case of the Fighter, the Extra Attack feature says this:
You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
The wording is very intentional. It's not talking about whenever you make an attack. It is specifically saying whenever you take the Attack action. So, the previous rule is being overwritten by this more specific rule, allowing fighters to make more than one attack when they take the Attack action.
That's when the additional movement rule kicks in. For this particular type of action called an Attack action, you can move before and after each attack that is made as part of this Attack action. This rule doesn't apply for various other attacks that you could make in the game. Only for attacks that are part of the Attack action.
So, in discussions like this, it's pretty important to make sure to use the exactly correct terminology when discussing these concepts. The word "attack" means a few different things in this game depending on the context unfortunately, but it is what it is. The key is to closely read the words in the rules because often times the words are chosen very intentionally because they have a specific meaning within the game.
To make a long story short, the multiattack action that some monsters can take is not the same thing as the Attack action, and it doesn't follow the same rules. It involves attacks, but so do many other features in the game. That doesn't make it an Attack action. The rules for the Attack action are only for the Attack action. To take the Attack action you have to actually take the Attack action, not some other action.
Claw.Melee Attack Roll: +5, reach 5 ft. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) Slashing damage, and the target has the Prone condition if it is Huge or smaller.
It can take any of the generic actions it wants like Dodge, Dash or Hide. Or it can take the Attack Action and then it gets to choose between making a bite or claw attack (it hasn't got Extra Attack so it only gets one). Or it can take the Multiattack Action and then it gets to make one of each (because that's what its Multiattack says, other monsters have a differently worded Multiattack). However Multiattack is its own specific action just the same as Wildshape is the Druids specific action that allows it to transform into the bear.
I really have no idea where you are getting that from. There is no step of combat called the multiattack. I couldn't even find it in sage advice.
If it helps in the debate... if not, please ignore me 😅
Keep in mind that the grappling rule in the Player’s Handbook requires the Attack action, so a creature must take that action—rather than Multiattack or another action in the creature’s stat block—when it uses that rule. A monster, such as a roper, that has a special grappling attack doesn’t follow that rule when using its special attack.
That doesn't really show me where there is an actual step of combat called the Multiattack [Action]. You are still just taking the Attack [Action] with the attack multiattack that lets you make multiple attacks (Like the fighter's 2nd attack feature).
Multiattack does a few things that probably weren't intended. I suspect the real target was spells that grant multiple attacks, no more moving between eldritch blasts or scorching rays.
Who needs to move between Eldritch Blasts? LIke I can't imagine combat with over 250 ft. in both directions. I don't even think most people have a table that large. You would need like a 20 ft. x 20 ft. table to need to move. Obviously you can have obstacles in the way, but in most cases I don't think someone is going to need to move between blasts.
Yeah, this has been a source of confusion for a lot of people for a long time now . . .
The Attack action (with the capital A) is a specific action that you can take on your turn and there are rules written for what you can do when you take this particular action.
An Attack action is NOT an attack. When you see a phrase like "make an attack", that is not the same thing as "taking the Attack action".
For example, there is a rule within the Combat section called "Making an Attack", which starts like this:
When you take the Attack action, you make an attack. Some other actions, Bonus Actions, and Reactions also let you make an attack. Whether you strike with a Melee weapon, fire a Ranged weapon, or make an attack roll as part of a spell, an attack has the following structure:
So, there are all sorts of times and various ways that you can make an attack in the game. Taking the Attack action is one such way, because the rule for that particular action says this:
When you take the Attack action, you can make one attack roll with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike.
There are also additional rules associated with this particular action that relate to Equipping and Unequipping Weapons and Moving between Attacks. These are all rules which describe what happens when you take the particular action that is called the Attack action.
Even though this base (general) rule says that you can make one attack roll, there are specific (exception) rules which modify this, such as the rule for Extra Attack.
In the case of the Fighter, the Extra Attack feature says this:
You can attack twice instead of once whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
The wording is very intentional. It's not talking about whenever you make an attack. It is specifically saying whenever you take the Attack action. So, the previous rule is being overwritten by this more specific rule, allowing fighters to make more than one attack when they take the Attack action.
That's when the additional movement rule kicks in. For this particular type of action called an Attack action, you can move before and after each attack that is made as part of this Attack action. This rule doesn't apply for various other attacks that you could make in the game. Only for attacks that are part of the Attack action.
So, in discussions like this, it's pretty important to make sure to use the exactly correct terminology when discussing these concepts. The word "attack" means a few different things in this game depending on the context unfortunately, but it is what it is. The key is to closely read the words in the rules because often times the words are chosen very intentionally because they have a specific meaning within the game.
To make a long story short, the multiattack action that some monsters can take is not the same thing as the Attack action, and it doesn't follow the same rules. It involves attacks, but so do many other features in the game. That doesn't make it an Attack action. The rules for the Attack action are only for the Attack action. To take the Attack action you have to actually take the Attack action, not some other action.
Multiattack does follow the same rules. You take the attack action and make an attack...which is the Multiattack.
I mean I've yet to see a single person ever play the game where monsters don't move between attacks. Not to mention if a monster has a leftover attack they should probably just hit the down PC if they can't move.
By definition the Multiattack action is not the Attack Action, as it allows for other actions aside from making a weapon attack such as a dragon's Terrifying Presence or various creatures' spellcasting to be used along with attack rolls. Now, that said, I would interpret the "or similar feature" part of the text in the ruling broadly here. I don't believe the RAI is to force anything that isn't a PC to stand in one place as it makes all its attacks.
Multiattack could have been implemented as the attack action (when the monster takes the attack action on its turn, it can....) but I can understand why they do that; it's a fair amount of extra verbiage that doesn't do much.
Moving between Attacks. If you move on your turn and have a feature, such as Extra Attack, that gives you more than one attack as part of the Attack action, you can use some or all of that movement to move between those attacks.
-----
I would let it go. I would probably also let movement occur between attacks in a bonus action. It's not that big a deal.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
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"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
Many DM i'm sure will allow movement between attacks of any type of action with or without knowing that the rules for Moving Between Attacks is a feature of the Attack action.
Multiattack does follow the same rules. You take the attack action and make an attack...which is the Multiattack.
The monster takes the Multiattack action, not the Attack action. Anything listed under Actions in a stat block is a non-standard action specific to that monster. It's also not a trait that says "<The creature> can make an additional attack when it takes the Attack action."
I mean I've yet to see a single person ever play the game where monsters don't move between attacks.
That's because they could under the 2014 rules. The moving between attacks rule wasn't specific to the Attack action under the old rules.
They'll likely print a bunch of new monsters in the 2024 Monster Manual that have movement options built into their Multiattacks (see the Panther and Lion in the 2024 PHB appendix B for example) and leave a note saying that if you (the DM) choose to use monsters from the 2014 rules, you can let them move as part of their Multiattack if you want.
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Multiattack has always been a different action and nothing in the 2024 PHB says otherwise. This has been cleared up several times over the years, just Ctrl+F in Sage Advice Compendium for examples.
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Okay so you believe a wildshaped druid also cannot move between attacks?
If the Druid takes the Multiattack Action (if the Beast he has Wildshaped into has that action to take) then yes.
Look at a Beast such as the Brown Bear. It has action choices that looks like this.
It can take any of the generic actions it wants like Dodge, Dash or Hide. Or it can take the Attack Action and then it gets to choose between making a bite or claw attack (it hasn't got Extra Attack so it only gets one). Or it can take the Multiattack Action and then it gets to make one of each (because that's what its Multiattack says, other monsters have a differently worded Multiattack). However Multiattack is its own specific action (just the same as Wildshape is the Druids specific action that allows it to transform into the bear) and it should in no way be confused with the generic Attack Action.
I really have no idea where you are getting that from. There is no step of combat called the multiattack. I couldn't even find it in sage advice.
Just read the statblock, it is right there. There is no step of combat called "Wildshape" or "Flurry of Blows" either but that doesn't stop those from being actions/bonus actions that are commonly taken.
Correct, wildshape introduces the bonus action step of combat. There is no Flurry of blows action or wildshape action.
From the 2014 Basic Rules, which contains free portions of the Monster Manual:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/monsters#Multiattack
Here's the relevant bit from the 2024 Free Rules, which contains portions of the 2024 Player's Handbook:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/free-rules/rules-glossary#StatBlock
In both cases Multiattack is considered a separate action from Attack.
In the 2014 rules they can, because the Moving between attacks rule is not specific to the Attack action. In the 2024 rules, they wouldn't be able to.
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If it helps in the debate... if not, please ignore me 😅
I'm just picking the following piece of text from the Sage Advice Compendium because I think it's still valid under the 2014 rules, and also because it clearly differentiates between the Multiattack Action and the Attack Action:
There's this line about breaking up movement from the OP that no one is mentioning.
Multiattack seems like it fits perfectly within this rule. Its a feature that give you more than one attack. I guess we're saying that multiattack isn't RAW an Attack action therefore it doesn't count?
Eh, yeah technically you're correct. Maybe this matters in something like league play but I'd rule and advocate to be ruled at any table I'm at for an interpretation that allows for movement. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets errated.
I'm sure it was an oversight. I'm just going to keep using the 2014 rules for this until I hear official word from the designers that they intentionally changed it. Come to think of it, I won't change even then.
Multiattack does a few things that probably weren't intended. I suspect the real target was spells that grant multiple attacks, no more moving between eldritch blasts or scorching rays.
Yeah, this has been a source of confusion for a lot of people for a long time now . . .
The Attack action (with the capital A) is a specific action that you can take on your turn and there are rules written for what you can do when you take this particular action.
An Attack action is NOT an attack. When you see a phrase like "make an attack", that is not the same thing as "taking the Attack action".
For example, there is a rule within the Combat section called "Making an Attack", which starts like this:
So, there are all sorts of times and various ways that you can make an attack in the game. Taking the Attack action is one such way, because the rule for that particular action says this:
There are also additional rules associated with this particular action that relate to Equipping and Unequipping Weapons and Moving between Attacks. These are all rules which describe what happens when you take the particular action that is called the Attack action.
Even though this base (general) rule says that you can make one attack roll, there are specific (exception) rules which modify this, such as the rule for Extra Attack.
In the case of the Fighter, the Extra Attack feature says this:
The wording is very intentional. It's not talking about whenever you make an attack. It is specifically saying whenever you take the Attack action. So, the previous rule is being overwritten by this more specific rule, allowing fighters to make more than one attack when they take the Attack action.
That's when the additional movement rule kicks in. For this particular type of action called an Attack action, you can move before and after each attack that is made as part of this Attack action. This rule doesn't apply for various other attacks that you could make in the game. Only for attacks that are part of the Attack action.
So, in discussions like this, it's pretty important to make sure to use the exactly correct terminology when discussing these concepts. The word "attack" means a few different things in this game depending on the context unfortunately, but it is what it is. The key is to closely read the words in the rules because often times the words are chosen very intentionally because they have a specific meaning within the game.
To make a long story short, the multiattack action that some monsters can take is not the same thing as the Attack action, and it doesn't follow the same rules. It involves attacks, but so do many other features in the game. That doesn't make it an Attack action. The rules for the Attack action are only for the Attack action. To take the Attack action you have to actually take the Attack action, not some other action.
That doesn't really show me where there is an actual step of combat called the Multiattack [Action]. You are still just taking the Attack [Action] with the attack multiattack that lets you make multiple attacks (Like the fighter's 2nd attack feature).
Who needs to move between Eldritch Blasts? LIke I can't imagine combat with over 250 ft. in both directions. I don't even think most people have a table that large. You would need like a 20 ft. x 20 ft. table to need to move. Obviously you can have obstacles in the way, but in most cases I don't think someone is going to need to move between blasts.
Multiattack does follow the same rules. You take the attack action and make an attack...which is the Multiattack.
I mean I've yet to see a single person ever play the game where monsters don't move between attacks. Not to mention if a monster has a leftover attack they should probably just hit the down PC if they can't move.
By definition the Multiattack action is not the Attack Action, as it allows for other actions aside from making a weapon attack such as a dragon's Terrifying Presence or various creatures' spellcasting to be used along with attack rolls. Now, that said, I would interpret the "or similar feature" part of the text in the ruling broadly here. I don't believe the RAI is to force anything that isn't a PC to stand in one place as it makes all its attacks.
Multiattack could have been implemented as the attack action (when the monster takes the attack action on its turn, it can....) but I can understand why they do that; it's a fair amount of extra verbiage that doesn't do much.
Moving between Attacks. If you move on your turn and have a feature, such as Extra Attack, that gives you more than one attack as part of the Attack action, you can use some or all of that movement to move between those attacks.
-----
I would let it go. I would probably also let movement occur between attacks in a bonus action. It's not that big a deal.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
Many DM i'm sure will allow movement between attacks of any type of action with or without knowing that the rules for Moving Between Attacks is a feature of the Attack action.
The monster takes the Multiattack action, not the Attack action. Anything listed under Actions in a stat block is a non-standard action specific to that monster. It's also not a trait that says "<The creature> can make an additional attack when it takes the Attack action."
That's because they could under the 2014 rules. The moving between attacks rule wasn't specific to the Attack action under the old rules.
They'll likely print a bunch of new monsters in the 2024 Monster Manual that have movement options built into their Multiattacks (see the Panther and Lion in the 2024 PHB appendix B for example) and leave a note saying that if you (the DM) choose to use monsters from the 2014 rules, you can let them move as part of their Multiattack if you want.
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