If you're looking from the outside into the area, you're Blinded, but you're also Blinded if you're in the area looking in and out because you're there.
Nope, that's incorrect. That's not what the rule says. The rule only applies when trying to see something "there", which refers to the area being discussed.
It already worked this way in 2014, but it has become a lot clearer that it does indeed work this way in 2024.
You are also ignoring the Glossary entry for this rule, which summarizes the mechanically important portions of the rule while eliminating the flavor. In the Glossary entry, the word "opaque" is never mentioned. That's because that word has a specific definition created by the rule itself -- the common english definition is not used for this rule. In the Glossary entry, instead of using the word, they simply jump straight to using its definition, which is the mechanically relevant part.
Once again, the entire text from the Glossary for the rule for a Heavily Obscured area:
Heavily Obscured
You have the Blinded condition while trying to see something in a Heavily Obscured space. See also “Blinded,” “Darkness,” and chapter 1 (“Exploration”).
As written, it is not ambiguous. The rule is clear in 2024.
Using your own example about what opaque means but with people: a person covers themselves with a thick blanket and you try to see them, but the blanket obscures your view of the person and everything else that might be in the area under the blanket. However, the person inside the blanket also has their vision obscured of everything inside the blanket and outside of it while there. The blanquet is opaque, therefore not see-through. In the case of Darkness, the spell is the blanket.
This is all totally incorrect. That's not at all what I've said about what opaque means for this rule.
The Heavily Obscured area rule ONLY specifies that I cannot see the person that is located under the blanket. This rule says NOTHING about whether or not the blanket prevents the person underneath it from seeing things that are outside of it. (In fact, in real life, depending on the blanket, the person actually might be able to see out from underneath it.)
To determine whether or not the person under the blanket can see something that is outside of the blanket, you must refer to a different rule -- the rule for Line of Sight. With this rule, it is handled on a case-by-case basis depending on the particular blanket involved, or whatever other object or effect may or may not be actually blocking Line of Sight.
NONE of that is part of the rule for a Heavily Obscured area. That's not the concept of a heavily obscured area and that's not what the rule says.
Once you determine that a creature is located within a heavily obscured area and is attempting to see something that is located outside of that area, you have to determine exactly what is causing the area to be obscured, and whether or not that object or effect actually blocks Line of Sight or not according to the Line of Sight rule, NOT the Heavily Obscured area rule which does not address that question at all. In the 2014 DMG, Darkness was not listed as an example of something that blocks Line of Sight -- because it doesn't do that.
I promise you -- when a character looks up into the sky at night, they CAN see the moon and the stars.
I am 100% certain about how this mechanic works based on the rules as they are written. I am willing to die on this hill regardless of how long other people want to drag out threads like this with incorrect information.
Then fall on your sword because not many are seeing it like you do. The rule goes both ways for what is inside the Heavily Obscured area, specially for the Darkness spell. Or are you going to say that you can also see out from inside Hunger of Hadar, which also creates an area of Darkness? You're reading too much into it and twisting the meaning.
Then fall on your sword because not many are seeing it like you do. The rule goes both ways for what is inside the Heavily Obscured area, specially for the Darkness spell. Or are you going to say that you can also see out from inside Hunger of Hadar, which also creates an area of Darkness? You're reading too much into it and twisting the meaning.
Technically you are correct, but it does leave an issue, a character who is standing in natural darkness, outside of the range of a lit torch or other light source, would not be able to see anybody who is in the bright light or dim light of that torch or light source, since darkness is defined as being an area that is heavily obscured and everything outside of the bright light or dim light is darkness.
It's another one I wish they had fixed in 2024... seems mostly the same as 2014 unfortunately.
Then fall on your sword because not many are seeing it like you do. The rule goes both ways for what is inside the Heavily Obscured area, specially for the Darkness spell. Or are you going to say that you can also see out from inside Hunger of Hadar, which also creates an area of Darkness? You're reading too much into it and twisting the meaning.
Technically you are correct, but it does leave an issue, a character who is standing in natural darkness, outside of the range of a lit torch or other light source, would not be able to see anybody who is in the bright light or dim light of that torch or light source, since darkness is defined as being an area that is heavily obscured and everything outside of the bright light or dim light is darkness.
It's another one I wish they had fixed in 2024... seems mostly the same as 2014 unfortunately.
You're right, and in this case it's up to the DM to make the call on what happens. In the real world, night in a place off civilization is dark as hell; anyone that has gone camping in the wilderness can attest to that
Then fall on your sword because not many are seeing it like you do. The rule goes both ways for what is inside the Heavily Obscured area, specially for the Darkness spell. Or are you going to say that you can also see out from inside Hunger of Hadar, which also creates an area of Darkness? You're reading too much into it and twisting the meaning.
Technically you are correct, but it does leave an issue, a character who is standing in natural darkness, outside of the range of a lit torch or other light source, would not be able to see anybody who is in the bright light or dim light of that torch or light source, since darkness is defined as being an area that is heavily obscured and everything outside of the bright light or dim light is darkness.
It's another one I wish they had fixed in 2024... seems mostly the same as 2014 unfortunately.
It's true that it's mostly the same as it was in 2014, but you are both wrong about what that means and about everything else that you've just said. Technically, he is incorrect, not correct. Not even just technically, but totally.
-- The rule does NOT go "both ways" -- it only refers to whether or not you can see something in the space. You are saying things that are not written.
-- There is nothing different about the Darkness that is created by the Darkness spell vs regular Darkness except that creatures with Darkvision cannot see things that are in Magical Darkness.
I don't have access to the 2024 Hunger of Hadar right now so I'm not sure how much has changed. If it has drastically changed, then disregard . . .
In 2014, Hunger of Hadar does NOT create an area of Darkness. It creates an entirely different effect that's referred to as "blackness". That area is NOT explicitly stated to be a Heavily Obscured area. In fact, it's basically the opposite of a Heavily Obscured area:
-- Creatures within the area of Hunger of Hadar are explicitly and unconditionally Blinded. Meanwhile, creatures outside of the area CAN see the creatures that are located within the area (there is nothing in the spell description that says otherwise). Creatures on the outside can also see through the blackness to things that are on the other side (why wouldn't they?).
You have the Blinded condition while trying to see something in a Heavily Obscured space. See also “Blinded,” “Darkness,” and chapter 1 (“Exploration”).
As written, it is not ambiguous. The rule is clear in 2024.
That's absolutely incorrect. As written, it is completely ambiguous. "In a heavily obscured space" could refer to either "trying" or "something" with equal probability, and it could even be phrased as it is specifically so that it encompasses both those possibilities. These sorts of prepositional phrases can freely float in English grammar; there's no requirement that they have some position relative to their referent. I don't really care what the designers intended the text to mean and won't argue for any position here; I rule in whatever way makes most realistic sense. But any claim to the unambiguity of the text is objectively, and obviously, incorrect.
Ok, technically this is true in terms of English grammar rules. So perhaps "not ambiguous" was not the best choice of phrase on my part. Perhaps "obvious" would have been more accurate.
Because practically speaking, the sentence simply would not be written that way if "in a heavily obscured space" was meant to refer to "trying". It would be written drastically different than that. On the other hand, the way that it is written is a common way to write it if you intended "in a heavily obscured space" to refer to "something". In terms of how people actually write, the "probability" is NOT equal. It's vastly more likely to be intended to mean the second thing than the first.
If two people are chatting together out in an open field and one of them points towards a shadowy area under a cluster of trees far off in the distance and says, "Hey, can you see something under those trees?" That is far more likely to mean "Can you see a thing that is located under those trees?" rather than "If you were located under those trees, can you see?" . . . "something? (I guess?)" . . .
Then fall on your sword because not many are seeing it like you do. The rule goes both ways for what is inside the Heavily Obscured area, specially for the Darkness spell. Or are you going to say that you can also see out from inside Hunger of Hadar, which also creates an area of Darkness? You're reading too much into it and twisting the meaning.
Technically you are correct, but it does leave an issue, a character who is standing in natural darkness, outside of the range of a lit torch or other light source, would not be able to see anybody who is in the bright light or dim light of that torch or light source, since darkness is defined as being an area that is heavily obscured and everything outside of the bright light or dim light is darkness.
It's another one I wish they had fixed in 2024... seems mostly the same as 2014 unfortunately.
It's true that it's mostly the same as it was in 2014, but you are both wrong about what that means and about everything else that you've just said. Technically, he is incorrect, not correct. Not even just technically, but totally.
-- The rule does NOT go "both ways" -- it only refers to whether or not you can see something in the space. You are saying things that are not written.
-- There is nothing different about the Darkness that is created by the Darkness spell vs regular Darkness except that creatures with Darkvision cannot see things that are in Magical Darkness.
I don't have access to the 2024 Hunger of Hadar right now so I'm not sure how much has changed. If it has drastically changed, then disregard . . .
In 2014, Hunger of Hadar does NOT create an area of Darkness. It creates an entirely different effect that's referred to as "blackness". That area is NOT explicitly stated to be a Heavily Obscured area. In fact, it's basically the opposite of a Heavily Obscured area:
-- Creatures within the area of Hunger of Hadar are explicitly and unconditionally Blinded. Meanwhile, creatures outside of the area CAN see the creatures that are located within the area (there is nothing in the spell description that says otherwise). Creatures on the outside can also see through the blackness to things that are on the other side (why wouldn't they?).
You have the Blinded condition while trying to see something in a Heavily Obscured space. See also “Blinded,” “Darkness,” and chapter 1 (“Exploration”).
As written, it is not ambiguous. The rule is clear in 2024.
That's absolutely incorrect. As written, it is completely ambiguous. "In a heavily obscured space" could refer to either "trying" or "something" with equal probability, and it could even be phrased as it is specifically so that it encompasses both those possibilities. These sorts of prepositional phrases can freely float in English grammar; there's no requirement that they have some position relative to their referent. I don't really care what the designers intended the text to mean and won't argue for any position here; I rule in whatever way makes most realistic sense. But any claim to the unambiguity of the text is objectively, and obviously, incorrect.
Ok, technically this is true in terms of English grammar rules. So perhaps "not ambiguous" was not the best choice of phrase on my part. Perhaps "obvious" would have been more accurate.
Because practically speaking, the sentence simply would not be written that way if "in a heavily obscured space" was meant to refer to "trying". It would be written drastically different than that. On the other hand, the way that it is written is a common way to write it if you intended "in a heavily obscured space" to refer to "something". In terms of how people actually write, the "probability" is NOT equal. It's vastly more likely to be intended to mean the second thing than the first.
If two people are chatting together out in an open field and one of them points towards a shadowy area under a cluster of trees far off in the distance and says, "Hey, can you see something under those trees?" That is far more likely to mean "Can you see a thing that is located under those trees?" rather than "If you were located under those trees, can you see?" . . . "something? (I guess?)" . . .
The intended meaning is obvious.
When it comes to the spell, you're forgetting that nonmagical light cannot illuminate inside the area of magical Darkness. Normal sight works by decoding the signals that are produced by visible light on the electro-magnetic spectrum. If normal light can't get through into the area, then being inside also makes you Blind because normal sight requires visible light to be able to see. The spell even reinforces this by specifying that if the spell’s area overlaps with an area of Bright Light or Dim Light created by a spell of level 2 or lower, that other spell is dispelled. This is why the spell has normally being used as a trap, and why it is discouraged to be used in party play...because you end up blinding your party members too.
The only way to see thought Magical Darkness is with Devil's Sight and Truesight, since they specify that "you can see in both normal and Magical Darkness", within the specified range. There's a reason the Devil Sight+Darkness combo is disliked in party play
You can try and make a compelling case for being able to see from inside normal Darkness to outside of it; but when it comes to the spell, both normal vision and Darkvision can't see into and out of it.
When it comes to the spell, you're forgetting that nonmagical light cannot illuminate inside the area of magical Darkness. Normal sight works by decoding the signals that are produced by visible light on the electro-magnetic spectrum. If normal light can't get through into the area, then being inside also makes you Blind because normal sight requires visible light to be able to see. The spell even reinforces this by specifying that if the spell’s area overlaps with an area of Bright Light or Dim Light created by a spell of level 2 or lower, that other spell is dispelled. This is why the spell has normally being used as a trap, and why it is discouraged to be used in party play...because you end up blinding your party members too.
The only way to see thought Magical Darkness is with Devil's Sight and Truesight, since they specify that "you can see in both normal and Magical Darkness", within the specified range. There's a reason the Devil Sight+Darkness combo is disliked in party play
You can try and make a compelling case for being able to see from inside normal Darkness to outside of it; but when it comes to the spell, both normal vision and Darkvision can't see into and out of it.
This is a reasonable argument regarding the spell. If the spell does work that way it wouldn't be because of any rules related to Darkness or Heavily Obscured areas, it would be because of these additional features of the spell.
As of right now I'm still not buying that though for a couple of reasons. First, the reason why you can see objects in a room is because the light bounces off of those objects. Even if no light is bouncing off of objects in a room, that does not necessarily mean that it's impossible for photons to pass through that room. If they do, then that would result in a room that is not illuminated, but light is still passing through it. This is part of the reason why you can be in a very dark outdoor place, and you can look up and see the stars. Your eyes are able to detect the light that travels directly from the star to your eye, but that light will generally not be enough to bounce off of anything to illuminate your surroundings very substantially. Which leads to the second point . . .
You really cannot rely very much on knowledge of real-world physics to adjudicate the vision and light rules of D&D 5e because the game simplifies the physics dramatically and unrealistically. In the real world, you really cannot have an area of total darkness bordering on any sort of light source. There's a much more gradual gradient which gets progressively darker and darker as you move away from the light but can never really become totally dark -- at least not for quite a long distance. In the game, there's no gradient. There's just well-lit, dimly lit, and dark, with harshly sharp borders between them. You really have to just rely on what the rules actually say to determine how these things affect a creature's vision in the game, because in reality it's all pretty unrealistic.
So, to me, when the text says that a Dark area cannot be illuminated, that just means that you cannot change that Dark area into a dimly lit area or into a well-lit area by any means. That doesn't necessarily mean anything about whether or not light can pass through the space in order to be directly detected by your eyes.
When it comes to the spell, you're forgetting that nonmagical light cannot illuminate inside the area of magical Darkness. Normal sight works by decoding the signals that are produced by visible light on the electro-magnetic spectrum. If normal light can't get through into the area, then being inside also makes you Blind because normal sight requires visible light to be able to see. The spell even reinforces this by specifying that if the spell’s area overlaps with an area of Bright Light or Dim Light created by a spell of level 2 or lower, that other spell is dispelled. This is why the spell has normally being used as a trap, and why it is discouraged to be used in party play...because you end up blinding your party members too. [...]
You cannot see through the magical darkness, even if you have darkvision. Logically, creatures without darkvision can't see through it either.
The spell also states light cannot illuminate the area, so there is no way of bringing in light from outside to stimulate your vision. If there is light outside the sphere, it is completely blocked by the spell.
Magical darkness is not like normal darkness, to begin with.
Also this text I wrote (note: 2014 rules text): darkness creates a heavily obscured area ---> a heavily obscured area ... blocks vision entirely ---> (spell entry) through this darkness.
Now, with the 2024 rules, things are exactly the same and even clearer than they were in 2014.
When it comes to the spell, you're forgetting that nonmagical light cannot illuminate inside the area of magical Darkness. Normal sight works by decoding the signals that are produced by visible light on the electro-magnetic spectrum. If normal light can't get through into the area, then being inside also makes you Blind because normal sight requires visible light to be able to see. The spell even reinforces this by specifying that if the spell’s area overlaps with an area of Bright Light or Dim Light created by a spell of level 2 or lower, that other spell is dispelled. This is why the spell has normally being used as a trap, and why it is discouraged to be used in party play...because you end up blinding your party members too. [...]
You cannot see through the magical darkness, even if you have darkvision. Logically, creatures without darkvision can't see through it either.
The spell also states light cannot illuminate the area, so there is no way of bringing in light from outside to stimulate your vision. If there is light outside the sphere, it is completely blocked by the spell.
Magical darkness is not like normal darkness, to begin with.
Also this text I wrote (note: 2014 rules text): darkness creates a heavily obscured area ---> a heavily obscured area ... blocks vision entirely ---> (spell entry) through this darkness.
Now, with the 2024 rules, things are exactly the same and even clearer than they were in 2014.
For me, regarding the Darkness spell and how Darkness works in general, it’s pretty much the same as it was in 2014.
The 2024 rule changed the 2014 part that said "blocks vision entirely" to "is opaque", which seems very deliberate and not just for flavor text. Oxford defines opaque as "not able to be seen through; not transparent". The guy is willfully ignoring the word opaque as flavor text to justify his interpretation, but opaque means the same here as the 2014 text.
Edit: the topic has detailed from what it was originally, so I suggest we move this specific topic to the other one about vision and keep to the original one here, which is blindsight/sense and darkness
The 2024 rule changed the 2014 part that said "blocks vision entirely" to "is opaque", which seems very deliberate and not just for flavor text. Oxford defines opaque as "not able to be seen through; not transparent". The guy is willfully ignoring the word opaque as flavor text to justify his interpretation, but opaque means the same here as the 2014 text.
Nobody is ignoring the word opaque. But some of us are ignoring the definition that is provided for the word and also the fact that the Glossary dismisses that word as flavor text.
The phrase "blocks vision entirely" was also flavor text. It's obvious when you step back and regard the entire section of rules as a block that's intended to be read through together as a set of contrasting concepts, transitioning from one to the next with introductory text and then mechanically defining what that text actually means in game terms. But for those who insisted that "blocks vision entirely" was not flavor text -- it was erroneous and so this was changed to more accurately reflect the concept that the rule is attempting to explain. In 2014, there were people that took that phrase to mean "Oh, no! There is a Heavily Obscured area way over there! Now I am totally blind! My vision is entirely blocked!"
Instead, by describing the area as opaque (changing it from something that the area "does" to something that the area "is"), it has become clearer that this is something that describes and affects the area, NOT your eyes. Your vision is no longer entirely blocked, which would be ridiculous.
Obviously, the concept that is being conveyed by the first sentence which describes the area as opaque is that in the previous rule for a Lightly Obscured area, you could still squint your eyes and sort of see things, but you would have disadvantage to try to spot something. In contrast, for a Heavily Obscured area you now just automatically fail that task because the obscurity of the area is opaque in nature.
At this point it's getting hard to tell if people are just being stubborn or if they just still aren't getting it. This concept and the rule for this concept is pretty straightforward, as summarized in the Rules Glossary. The way that a Heavily Obscured area affects a creature is that "You have the Blinded condition while trying to see something in a Heavily Obscured space." That's it. That's the whole concept.
You can argue the point for natural darkness, but when it comes to magical darkness, that does not operate like normal. I suggest we move this to the vision thread since it has nothing to do with the original question of this thread.
Then fall on your sword because not many are seeing it like you do. The rule goes both ways for what is inside the Heavily Obscured area, specially for the Darkness spell. Or are you going to say that you can also see out from inside Hunger of Hadar, which also creates an area of Darkness? You're reading too much into it and twisting the meaning.
Technically you are correct, but it does leave an issue, a character who is standing in natural darkness, outside of the range of a lit torch or other light source, would not be able to see anybody who is in the bright light or dim light of that torch or light source, since darkness is defined as being an area that is heavily obscured and everything outside of the bright light or dim light is darkness.
It's another one I wish they had fixed in 2024... seems mostly the same as 2014 unfortunately.
You're right, and in this case it's up to the DM to make the call on what happens. In the real world, night in a place off civilization is dark as hell; anyone that has gone camping in the wilderness can attest to that
It's true that it's mostly the same as it was in 2014, but you are both wrong about what that means and about everything else that you've just said. Technically, he is incorrect, not correct. Not even just technically, but totally.
-- The rule does NOT go "both ways" -- it only refers to whether or not you can see something in the space. You are saying things that are not written.
-- There is nothing different about the Darkness that is created by the Darkness spell vs regular Darkness except that creatures with Darkvision cannot see things that are in Magical Darkness.
I don't have access to the 2024 Hunger of Hadar right now so I'm not sure how much has changed. If it has drastically changed, then disregard . . .
In 2014, Hunger of Hadar does NOT create an area of Darkness. It creates an entirely different effect that's referred to as "blackness". That area is NOT explicitly stated to be a Heavily Obscured area. In fact, it's basically the opposite of a Heavily Obscured area:
-- Creatures within the area of Hunger of Hadar are explicitly and unconditionally Blinded. Meanwhile, creatures outside of the area CAN see the creatures that are located within the area (there is nothing in the spell description that says otherwise). Creatures on the outside can also see through the blackness to things that are on the other side (why wouldn't they?).
Ok, technically this is true in terms of English grammar rules. So perhaps "not ambiguous" was not the best choice of phrase on my part. Perhaps "obvious" would have been more accurate.
Because practically speaking, the sentence simply would not be written that way if "in a heavily obscured space" was meant to refer to "trying". It would be written drastically different than that. On the other hand, the way that it is written is a common way to write it if you intended "in a heavily obscured space" to refer to "something". In terms of how people actually write, the "probability" is NOT equal. It's vastly more likely to be intended to mean the second thing than the first.
If two people are chatting together out in an open field and one of them points towards a shadowy area under a cluster of trees far off in the distance and says, "Hey, can you see something under those trees?" That is far more likely to mean "Can you see a thing that is located under those trees?" rather than "If you were located under those trees, can you see?" . . . "something? (I guess?)" . . .
The intended meaning is obvious.
When it comes to the spell, you're forgetting that nonmagical light cannot illuminate inside the area of magical Darkness. Normal sight works by decoding the signals that are produced by visible light on the electro-magnetic spectrum. If normal light can't get through into the area, then being inside also makes you Blind because normal sight requires visible light to be able to see. The spell even reinforces this by specifying that if the spell’s area overlaps with an area of Bright Light or Dim Light created by a spell of level 2 or lower, that other spell is dispelled. This is why the spell has normally being used as a trap, and why it is discouraged to be used in party play...because you end up blinding your party members too.
The only way to see thought Magical Darkness is with Devil's Sight and Truesight, since they specify that "you can see in both normal and Magical Darkness", within the specified range. There's a reason the Devil Sight+Darkness combo is disliked in party play
You can try and make a compelling case for being able to see from inside normal Darkness to outside of it; but when it comes to the spell, both normal vision and Darkvision can't see into and out of it.
This is a reasonable argument regarding the spell. If the spell does work that way it wouldn't be because of any rules related to Darkness or Heavily Obscured areas, it would be because of these additional features of the spell.
As of right now I'm still not buying that though for a couple of reasons. First, the reason why you can see objects in a room is because the light bounces off of those objects. Even if no light is bouncing off of objects in a room, that does not necessarily mean that it's impossible for photons to pass through that room. If they do, then that would result in a room that is not illuminated, but light is still passing through it. This is part of the reason why you can be in a very dark outdoor place, and you can look up and see the stars. Your eyes are able to detect the light that travels directly from the star to your eye, but that light will generally not be enough to bounce off of anything to illuminate your surroundings very substantially. Which leads to the second point . . .
You really cannot rely very much on knowledge of real-world physics to adjudicate the vision and light rules of D&D 5e because the game simplifies the physics dramatically and unrealistically. In the real world, you really cannot have an area of total darkness bordering on any sort of light source. There's a much more gradual gradient which gets progressively darker and darker as you move away from the light but can never really become totally dark -- at least not for quite a long distance. In the game, there's no gradient. There's just well-lit, dimly lit, and dark, with harshly sharp borders between them. You really have to just rely on what the rules actually say to determine how these things affect a creature's vision in the game, because in reality it's all pretty unrealistic.
So, to me, when the text says that a Dark area cannot be illuminated, that just means that you cannot change that Dark area into a dimly lit area or into a well-lit area by any means. That doesn't necessarily mean anything about whether or not light can pass through the space in order to be directly detected by your eyes.
I agree.
I shared my arguments in a few posts before (for example, here If a Creature is Heavily Obscured, Do Advantage and Disadvantage on Attacks Cancel Out?), including a similar explanation:
Also this text I wrote (note: 2014 rules text): darkness creates a heavily obscured area ---> a heavily obscured area ... blocks vision entirely ---> (spell entry) through this darkness.
Now, with the 2024 rules, things are exactly the same and even clearer than they were in 2014.
That's all.
For me, regarding the Darkness spell and how Darkness works in general, it’s pretty much the same as it was in 2014.
The 2024 rule changed the 2014 part that said "blocks vision entirely" to "is opaque", which seems very deliberate and not just for flavor text. Oxford defines opaque as "not able to be seen through; not transparent". The guy is willfully ignoring the word opaque as flavor text to justify his interpretation, but opaque means the same here as the 2014 text.
Edit: the topic has detailed from what it was originally, so I suggest we move this specific topic to the other one about vision and keep to the original one here, which is blindsight/sense and darkness
Nobody is ignoring the word opaque. But some of us are ignoring the definition that is provided for the word and also the fact that the Glossary dismisses that word as flavor text.
The phrase "blocks vision entirely" was also flavor text. It's obvious when you step back and regard the entire section of rules as a block that's intended to be read through together as a set of contrasting concepts, transitioning from one to the next with introductory text and then mechanically defining what that text actually means in game terms. But for those who insisted that "blocks vision entirely" was not flavor text -- it was erroneous and so this was changed to more accurately reflect the concept that the rule is attempting to explain. In 2014, there were people that took that phrase to mean "Oh, no! There is a Heavily Obscured area way over there! Now I am totally blind! My vision is entirely blocked!"
Instead, by describing the area as opaque (changing it from something that the area "does" to something that the area "is"), it has become clearer that this is something that describes and affects the area, NOT your eyes. Your vision is no longer entirely blocked, which would be ridiculous.
Obviously, the concept that is being conveyed by the first sentence which describes the area as opaque is that in the previous rule for a Lightly Obscured area, you could still squint your eyes and sort of see things, but you would have disadvantage to try to spot something. In contrast, for a Heavily Obscured area you now just automatically fail that task because the obscurity of the area is opaque in nature.
At this point it's getting hard to tell if people are just being stubborn or if they just still aren't getting it. This concept and the rule for this concept is pretty straightforward, as summarized in the Rules Glossary. The way that a Heavily Obscured area affects a creature is that "You have the Blinded condition while trying to see something in a Heavily Obscured space." That's it. That's the whole concept.
You can argue the point for natural darkness, but when it comes to magical darkness, that does not operate like normal. I suggest we move this to the vision thread since it has nothing to do with the original question of this thread.
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ModeratorYes. This thread has gotten off topic. I am now locking it as it was answered in the first few posts.
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