Lemme try this way, this is what everyone is trying to explain to you. The frikin’ game’s designers even explained that this is what they meant:
If This: “Verbal (V),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
If This: “Somatic (S),” Then This:
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
If This: “Material (M),” Then This:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus.
If This: “Verbal (V) AND Somatic (S),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
If This: “Verbal (V) AND Material (M),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus.
If This: “Material (M) AND Somatic (S)” Then this:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
Lemme try this way, this is what everyone is trying to explain to you. The frikin’ game’s designers even explained that this is what they meant:
If This: “Verbal (V),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
If This: “Somatic (S),” Then This:
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
If This: “Material (M),” Then This:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus.
If This: “Verbal (V) AND Somatic (S),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
If This: “Verbal (V) AND Material (M),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus.
If This: “Material (M) AND Somatic (S)” Then this:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
Yeah, I completely understand that. What you're unable to understand seems to be
If "Channel Spell through Arcane Focus" also add:
"Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus."
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'm still not sure why you're talking about holy symbols here. We're talking about an arcane focus, well, I am anyway. I know that there are similarities between them but they're not the same object.
Moreover, in the example in that sage advice, the scenario painted the caster isn't even holding a Holy Symbol at all. He is holding a shield. I'm sure we can both agree a shield isn't an arcane focus. Nor is it a spellcasting focus.
Normally you would NOT be able to cast a spell and use a shield hand to do the S components, and that linked text seems to clarify that they intended a shield with a holy symbol on it to still at least provide that flexibility in those cases. Because normally you couldn't use a shield hand like that in any way shape or form. And, any normal reading of the Holy symbol, material components, or spellcasting focus texts wouldn't lead anyone to the conclusion that a shield hand could also be used in this way under this situation. So they added it to their sage advise to clarify that it should be allowed in that situation.
But none of that has zilch to do with an arcane focus. You can't put an arcane focus on a shield. It is totally irrelevant to this topic.
- We're discussing the use of material components and what's considered a free hand for casting spells.
- Certain spellcasters can use focus items instead of the listed material components.
- Arcane casters can use an arcane focus as their spellcasting focus. Clerics and paladins use holy symbols as their spellcasting focus.
- Clerics and paladins can use holy symbols as their foci while bearing them on shields according to the Player's Handbook.
Holy Symbol. A holy symbol is a representation of a god or pantheon. It might be an amulet depicting a symbol representing a deity, the same symbol carefully engraved or inlaid as an emblem on a shield, or a tiny box holding a fragment of a sacred relic. A cleric or paladin can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus, as described in chapter 10. To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield.
- THEREFORE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME RULES REGARDING A SPELLCASTING FOCUS AND A FREE HAND, YOU FOLLOW?
- A CASTER has to put down their spellcasting focus in order to free up a hand to perform somatic components for a spell that has somatic components and no material components according to Sage Advice Compendium:
Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.
If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I'm still not sure why you're talking about holy symbols here. We're talking about an arcane focus, well, I am anyway. I know that there are similarities between them but they're not the same object.
Moreover, in the example in that sage advice, the scenario painted the caster isn't even holding a Holy Symbol at all. He is holding a shield. I'm sure we can both agree a shield isn't an arcane focus. Nor is it a spellcasting focus.
Normally you would NOT be able to cast a spell and use a shield hand to do the S components, and that linked text seems to clarify that they intended a shield with a holy symbol on it to still at least provide that flexibility in those cases. Because normally you couldn't use a shield hand like that in any way shape or form. And, any normal reading of the Holy symbol, material components, or spellcasting focus texts wouldn't lead anyone to the conclusion that a shield hand could also be used in this way under this situation. So they added it to their sage advise to clarify that it should be allowed in that situation.
But none of that has zilch to do with an arcane focus. You can't put an arcane focus on a shield. It is totally irrelevant to this topic.
A Holy Symbol is the Divine Caster version of an Arcane Focus.
Just like a Druidic Focus is the Druid version of an Arcane Focus.
And any musical instrument is a Bardic Focus, the Bardic version of an Arcane Focus.
You can’t seem to understand the difference between a description of something and the rules for its use. The rules for a focus say you have to follow spell casting rules. The spell casting rules tell you how components work. The focus rule does not say it overrides anything in the spellcasting rules. As I already said, they are very explicit that you follow those rules. That means you follow those rules.
If you didn’t know that a holy symbol was a focus, you really arguing from a position of ignorance.
I said a Holy symbol isn't an Arcane focus. If you don't know the distinction between an Arcane Focus and a Spellcrafting Focus. Well.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Lemme try this way, this is what everyone is trying to explain to you. The frikin’ game’s designers even explained that this is what they meant:
If This: “Verbal (V),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
If This: “Somatic (S),” Then This:
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
If This: “Material (M),” Then This:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus.
If This: “Verbal (V) AND Somatic (S),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
If This: “Verbal (V) AND Material (M),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus.
If This: “Material (M) AND Somatic (S)” Then this:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
Yeah, I completely understand that. What you're unable to understand seems to be
If "Channel Spell through Arcane Focus" also add:
"Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus."
What you’re unable to understand seems to be that you are only allowed to "Channel Spell through Arcane Focus" if the spell already requires Material Components. If the spell does not require Material Components, you are not allowed to Channel it through an Arcane Focus.
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
This is the important bit as it overrides this clause of somatic components:
If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
But only if the spellcaster has that had occupied by a material component required for the spell, or a focus/components pouch as a substitution.
The rule for requiring a free hand to make a somatic gesture is overridden if that hand is holding a material component, spellcasting focus or components pouch, in which case that hand can make the somatic gesture and hold the material component/focus/pouch, but only if the spell requires a material component. The clause about being able to combine it material/focus/pouch with somatic gesture hand applies as a material component specific rule, not a general rule. As such, this rule only applies when a spell has a material component.
Again, an argument of ignorance. A focus is a focus. The difference between arcane focii and (they’re called) holy symbols and Druidic focii is their form.
They are hung up on "I'm using an Arcane Focus to cast my spell" so much that they can't see that we're saying that you can't use an Arcane Focus (or a Druidic Focus or a Holy Symbol all of which are spellcasting foci) to channel the spell unless the spell has material components.
I'm still not sure why you're talking about holy symbols here. We're talking about an arcane focus, well, I am anyway. I know that there are similarities between them but they're not the same object.
Moreover, in the example in that sage advice, the scenario painted the caster isn't even holding a Holy Symbol at all. He is holding a shield. I'm sure we can both agree a shield isn't an arcane focus. Nor is it a spellcasting focus.
Normally you would NOT be able to cast a spell and use a shield hand to do the S components, and that linked text seems to clarify that they intended a shield with a holy symbol on it to still at least provide that flexibility in those cases. Because normally you couldn't use a shield hand like that in any way shape or form. And, any normal reading of the Holy symbol, material components, or spellcasting focus texts wouldn't lead anyone to the conclusion that a shield hand could also be used in this way under this situation. So they added it to their sage advise to clarify that it should be allowed in that situation.
But none of that has zilch to do with an arcane focus. You can't put an arcane focus on a shield. It is totally irrelevant to this topic.
- We're discussing the use of material components and what's considered a free hand for casting spells.
- Certain spellcasters can use focus items instead of the listed material components.
- Arcane casters can use an arcane focus as their spellcasting focus. Clerics and paladins use holy symbols as their spellcasting focus.
- Clerics and paladins can use holy symbols as their foci while bearing them on shields according to the Player's Handbook.
Holy Symbol. A holy symbol is a representation of a god or pantheon. It might be an amulet depicting a symbol representing a deity, the same symbol carefully engraved or inlaid as an emblem on a shield, or a tiny box holding a fragment of a sacred relic. A cleric or paladin can use a holy symbol as a spellcasting focus, as described in chapter 10. To use the symbol in this way, the caster must hold it in hand, wear it visibly, or bear it on a shield.
- THEREFORE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME RULES REGARDING A SPELLCASTING FOCUS AND A FREE HAND, YOU FOLLOW?
- A CASTER has to put down their spellcasting focus in order to free up a hand to perform somatic components for a spell that has somatic components and no material components according to Sage Advice Compendium:
Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.
If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
This is the important bit as it overrides this clause of somatic components:
If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
But only if the spellcaster has that had occupied by a material component required for the spell, or a focus/components pouch as a substitution.
The rule for requiring a free hand to make a somatic gesture is overridden if that hand is holding a material component, spellcasting focus or components pouch, in which case that hand can make the somatic gesture and hold the material component/focus/pouch, but only if the spell requires a material component. The clause about being able to combine it material/focus/pouch with somatic gesture hand applies as a material component specific rule, not a general rule. As such, this rule only applies when a spell has a material component.
Yes. The rule for somatic components is overriden by casting a spell with a material component, not holding a material component. If the spell doesn’t have a material component, then that rule doesn’t apply. I’m not sure why people think that casting the spell isn’t the important part about spellcasting rules. Holding a greataxe doesn’t all of the sudden allow my wizard to use it.
No. The rule for somatic components is overriden by casting a spell with a material component, not holding a material component. If the spell doesn’t have a material component, then that rule doesn’t apply. I’m not sure why people think that casting the spell isn’t the important part about spellcasting rules. Holding a greataxe doesn’t all of the sudden allow my wizard to use it.
Isn't that what I said? I may have been less than clear, it was at least what I was trying to say. The spell has to require a material component if you want the Material + Somatic in one hand benefit.
No. The rule for somatic components is overriden by casting a spell with a material component, not holding a material component. If the spell doesn’t have a material component, then that rule doesn’t apply. I’m not sure why people think that casting the spell isn’t the important part about spellcasting rules. Holding a greataxe doesn’t all of the sudden allow my wizard to use it.
Isn't that what I said? I may have been less than clear, it was at least what I was trying to say. The spell has to require a material component if you want the Material + Somatic in one hand benefit.
I picked up what you were putting down. But about a half-dozen of us haven’t been able to convince Ravnodaus of that all day.
Maybe a specific hypothetical can get us to some level of understanding. Okay riddle me this one boys.
A wizard casts Ray of Frost and channels it through his Arcane Focus - Wand.
From my perspective, the rules of the object should be consulted. They are what is even allowing us to do this, after all.
An arcane focus is a special item designed to channel the power of arcane spells. A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in the Spellcasting section.
Okay, so we read this and it tells us to check out the Spellcasting (Material Components) rules for how this works, and there we find this:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Cool, so now we know we can perform the S component with the same hand as holding the Arcane Focus - Wand that is channeling our Ray of Frost. Let's see about the spell's requirement now too, first is a V component.
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Well we're not muted or silenced, so we can provide this. Next we need that S component:
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
So we need a free hand for the gestures, and we know from earlier that it can be the same hand we're holding the wand with. Check!
All set! Ray a Frost is cast by our one-armed wizard wielding a wand for an arcane focus. Watchout world, One-Arm Wally is coming to a town near you!
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Maybe a specific hypothetical can get us to some level of understanding. Okay riddle me this one boys.
A wizard casts Ray of Frost and channels it through his Arcane Focus - Wand.
From my perspective, the rules of the object should be consulted. They are what is even allowing us to do this, after all.
An arcane focus is a special item designed to channel the power of arcane spells. A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in the Spellcasting section.
Okay, so we read this and it tells us to check out the Spellcasting (Material Components) rules for how this works, and there we find this:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Cool, so now we know we can perform the S component with the same hand as holding the Arcane Focus - Wand that is channeling our Ray of Frost. Let's see about the spell's requirement now too, first is a V component.
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Well we're not muted or silenced, so we can provide this. Next we need that S component:
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
So we need a free hand for the gestures, and we know from earlier that it can be the same hand we're holding the wand with. Check!
All set! Ray a Frost is cast by our one-armed wizard wielding a wand for an arcane focus. Watchout world, One-Arm Wally is coming to a town near you!
What specific step is wrong here?
Right, but your mistake is that it should go this way:
Player: “I cast Ray of Frost using my arcane focus.”
DM: “That spell does not require any material components, you cannot use your arcane focus to cast that spell.”
If you didn’t know that a holy symbol was a focus, you really arguing from a position of ignorance.
Lemme try this way, this is what everyone is trying to explain to you. The frikin’ game’s designers even explained that this is what they meant:
If This: “Verbal (V),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
If This: “Somatic (S),” Then This:
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
If This: “Material (M),” Then This:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus.
If This: “Verbal (V) AND Somatic (S),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
If This: “Verbal (V) AND Material (M),” Then this:
Most spells require the chanting of mystic words. The words themselves aren't the source of the spell's power; rather, the particular combination of sounds, with specific pitch and resonance, sets the threads of magic in motion. Thus, a character who is gagged or in an area of silence, such as one created by the silence spell, can't cast a spell with a verbal component.
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus.
If This: “Material (M) AND Somatic (S)” Then this:
Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components.
Spellcasting gestures might include a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.
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Yeah, I completely understand that. What you're unable to understand seems to be
If "Channel Spell through Arcane Focus" also add:
"Casting some spells requires particular objects, specified in parentheses in the component entry. A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus (found in “Equipment”) in place of the components specified for a spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell.
If a spell states that a material component is consumed by the spell, the caster must provide this component for each casting of the spell. A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus."
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
- We're discussing the use of material components and what's considered a free hand for casting spells.
- Certain spellcasters can use focus items instead of the listed material components.
- Arcane casters can use an arcane focus as their spellcasting focus. Clerics and paladins use holy symbols as their spellcasting focus.
- Clerics and paladins can use holy symbols as their foci while bearing them on shields according to the Player's Handbook.
- THEREFORE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE SAME RULES REGARDING A SPELLCASTING FOCUS AND A FREE HAND, YOU FOLLOW?
- A CASTER has to put down their spellcasting focus in order to free up a hand to perform somatic components for a spell that has somatic components and no material components according to Sage Advice Compendium:
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A Holy Symbol is the Divine Caster version of an Arcane Focus.
Just like a Druidic Focus is the Druid version of an Arcane Focus.
And any musical instrument is a Bardic Focus, the Bardic version of an Arcane Focus.
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You can’t seem to understand the difference between a description of something and the rules for its use. The rules for a focus say you have to follow spell casting rules. The spell casting rules tell you how components work. The focus rule does not say it overrides anything in the spellcasting rules. As I already said, they are very explicit that you follow those rules. That means you follow those rules.
I said a Holy symbol isn't an Arcane focus. If you don't know the distinction between an Arcane Focus and a Spellcrafting Focus. Well.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
What you’re unable to understand seems to be that you are only allowed to "Channel Spell through Arcane Focus" if the spell already requires Material Components. If the spell does not require Material Components, you are not allowed to Channel it through an Arcane Focus.
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You missed a bit off the end
This is the important bit as it overrides this clause of somatic components:
But only if the spellcaster has that had occupied by a material component required for the spell, or a focus/components pouch as a substitution.
The rule for requiring a free hand to make a somatic gesture is overridden if that hand is holding a material component, spellcasting focus or components pouch, in which case that hand can make the somatic gesture and hold the material component/focus/pouch, but only if the spell requires a material component. The clause about being able to combine it material/focus/pouch with somatic gesture hand applies as a material component specific rule, not a general rule. As such, this rule only applies when a spell has a material component.
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Again, an argument of ignorance. A focus is a focus. The difference between arcane focii and (they’re called) holy symbols and Druidic focii is their form.
They are hung up on "I'm using an Arcane Focus to cast my spell" so much that they can't see that we're saying that you can't use an Arcane Focus (or a Druidic Focus or a Holy Symbol all of which are spellcasting foci) to channel the spell unless the spell has material components.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Yes. The rule for somatic components is overriden by casting a spell with a material component, not holding a material component. If the spell doesn’t have a material component, then that rule doesn’t apply. I’m not sure why people think that casting the spell isn’t the important part about spellcasting rules. Holding a greataxe doesn’t all of the sudden allow my wizard to use it.
Isn't that what I said? I may have been less than clear, it was at least what I was trying to say. The spell has to require a material component if you want the Material + Somatic in one hand benefit.
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I think I did misunderstand your sentiment (since I didn’t get to the end), but my point is valid to some other arguments in this thread.
^fixed above.
S'all good, it can be hard to parse walls of text quoted within text, quoting other text.
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I picked up what you were putting down. But about a half-dozen of us haven’t been able to convince Ravnodaus of that all day.
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Maybe a specific hypothetical can get us to some level of understanding. Okay riddle me this one boys.
A wizard casts Ray of Frost and channels it through his Arcane Focus - Wand.
From my perspective, the rules of the object should be consulted. They are what is even allowing us to do this, after all.
Okay, so we read this and it tells us to check out the Spellcasting (Material Components) rules for how this works, and there we find this:
Cool, so now we know we can perform the S component with the same hand as holding the Arcane Focus - Wand that is channeling our Ray of Frost. Let's see about the spell's requirement now too, first is a V component.
Well we're not muted or silenced, so we can provide this. Next we need that S component:
So we need a free hand for the gestures, and we know from earlier that it can be the same hand we're holding the wand with. Check!
All set! Ray a Frost is cast by our one-armed wizard wielding a wand for an arcane focus. Watchout world, One-Arm Wally is coming to a town near you!
What specific step is wrong here?
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Right, but your mistake is that it should go this way:
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No, start at the rules for "Casting a Spell."
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!