You can cast Hex while holding a weapon in one hand and an arcane focus in the other. You cannot cast Eldritch Blast because it does not have a M component. If you have the War Caster feat you could cast Eldritch Blast.
You can substitute any spell with a S and M component for Hex and you can substitute any spell with only a S or V,S component for Eldritch Blast and the statements remain true (unless your class has some other ability)
Like Improved Pact Weapon Invocation for Pact of the Blade (Because being able to combine the weapon and the Arcane Focus into one thing so your other hand is “free” to perform S components for spells without M components is a feature they have to spend multiple resources to get. Ruby of the War Mage is a freaking magic item people hope to get for the same benefit. Or the Warcaster feat that people give up ASIs to get. Too bad for all of those players and characters they didn’t know that all they had to do was ignore several paragraphs from the ruses and they wouldn’t need those things.)
Lets actually look at some features that DO change components of spells:
Beast spells for druid says how it affects V and S components: You can provide them in wild shape form. This is true because the feature says it. It also says you cannot provide material components -- that part would apply even if you had a focus on your person or in your hand when you used wildshape whether or not you chose for that item to still be carried when you transformed.
Archdruid alters the components of spells. There is specific text that does that: "Additionally, you can ignore the verbal and somatic components of your druid spells, as well as any material components that lack a cost and aren’t consumed by a spell." Without such text, then you couldn't ignore those components.
Subtle Spell allows you to ignore V and S components. Again, it is the text of the feature specifically saying that you can do that which is what allows it.
(UA) Psionic Spellcasting. "When you cast a spell while in thought form, you can cast the spell psionically. If you do so, the spell doesn’t require verbal, somatic, or material components that lack a gold cost." Again, specific text telling you how the feature changes the components.
War Caster provides that you can perform somatic components without a free hand.
So there are in fact features that change the requirements of spells. I'm going to point something obvious out here: These features alter the components of spells by saying that they do. Pointing to a requirement that a spell doesn't have to say "that part of this requirement is waved because of this other requirement that this spell doesn't have" simply doesn't work. If a focus itself relieved component requirements, these examples show you that the text would say that.
So, I believe I should do the same, to demonstrate to Rav that we DO understand what he's saying, and insist that it is incorrect. The following is incorrect, but I believe demonstrates his argument.
The rules clearly say that a focus can be used to perform somatic components- or at the very least, somatic components can be performed by the hand holding a focus. Jeremy said so too. Because of that, spells that only have somatic components can still be can be cast by a hand holding a focus. The Material Component rules say that the focus has that ability, and that line doesn't go away because the spell doesn't have the Material component. That rule is ever-present and always applies. In other words, a Focus always has the ability to perform somatic components when held. So you can cast a spell if you're holding a focus, regardless of its components, as long as you can fulfill the Verbal component if needed.
By the way, you can't use a shield with a holy symbol any time there are somatic components as a focus because you need your hands to perform somatic gestures. (I can't contain myself here, this is flat out dumb wrong and even goes against his own logic. The Holy Symbol rules spell it out otherwise.)
That last line is rather convincing that he is trolling, and I loathe to say it. He refuses to admit that a focus can not perform somatic components when the Material component is not present in the spell. He believes that a focus can always be used to perform the Somatic component, but then contradicts himself regarding holy symbol shields. By his own reasoning, a Cleric should not have to free a hand to cast cure wounds, but instead does that shenanigans.
You just demonstrate you don't understand the argument being made, and just dramatically mischaracterized what I said. Corrected:
The rules clearly say that a focus can be used to perform somatic components-channel your spells, and that when you do soor at the very least, somatic components can be performed by the hand holding a focus. Jeremy said so too. Because of that, spells that only have somatic components can still be can be cast by a hand holding a focus. The Spellcasting Section - Material Component rules say that the focus has that ability, and that line doesn't go away because the spell doesn't have the Material component . That rule is ever-present and always applies. is specifically being pointed to by the item, and so it applies when the item is being used. In other words, a Focus always has the ability to be held in the same hand performing somatic components when held. So you can cast a spell if you're holding a focus, regardless of its components, as long as you can fulfill the Verbal, Somatic, and Expensive Materials component if needed.
By the way, my initial read of the Holy Symbol rules would have lead me to believe you can't use a shield with a holy symbol any time there are somatic components as a focus because you need your hands to perform somatic gestures, and a shield isn't a focus, it is a shield, and while the rules don't specifically say that a shield can be considered a focus, the sage advice clearly states otherwise so should be followed instead.
(I can't contain myself here, this is flat out dumb wrong and even goes against his own logic. The Holy Symbol rules spell it out otherwise.)
Everything seems silly if you mischaracterize and strawman it.
Nothing I've said is contradictory.
Holding a weapon means the hand isn't free because it is wielding a weapon. Holding a shield means the hand isn't free because it is holding a shield. Holding a focus means the hand IS free because all it is going to be used for is spellcasting.
We already covered that you don't even need to hold the focus in your hand continuously, the focus needn't occupy the hand all the time it must only be temporarily grasped during the casting of the spell. As long as the hand isn't DOING anything else, it is free to cast spells. Holding a focus by definition means the hand is free., because it quite literally can't be doing anything else.
The exception is, of course, the silly shield. Because a shield IS something else, So it is ONLY a focus when being used as one, and not one when it isn't being used as one. THAT'S why IT was the example in the sage advice!
Guys. This isn't hard.
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I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A spell's components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell's description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components.
A spell with an S (but not M) component has a requirement for a free hand. Nothing (***presented here***) relieves that requirement for S (but not M) spells (as pointed out, RAW, not even the tools requirement for Artificers). The particular component requirement is for the spell that you are casting. If you cannot meet the requirements of casting the spell you cannot cast it. Nothing about wanting to cast a S but not M spell with a focus changes the spell into having an M component that would change the requirements imposed by the S component.
So, NightskyPirate, you are right in your assessment, but there are rules telling you that you at least still need to be able to fulfill the requirements of the spell that you are casting. The requirements for particular spells are:
V: Ability to speak (unrelated and doesn't really matter to this discussion).
S: A free hand.
M: A free hand or a focus in hand.
S,M: A free hand or a focus in hand (not two free hands).
As I said, holding a focus does not add M to a spell, so its requirement for a free hand remains unchanged. Note that S indicates a requirement for a free hand, not a hand that can be holding a focus.
The text under material components describes spells with the requirement of material components only. It does not describe general rules for anything beyond spells with material components. The reason this text exists is to tell you what is required when a spell indicates that it has material components.
Lets actually look at some features that DO change components of spells:
Beast spells for druid says how it affects V and S components: You can provide them in wild shape form. This is true because the feature says it. It also says you cannot provide material components -- that part would apply even if you had a focus on your person or in your hand when you used wildshape whether or not you chose for that item to still be carried when you transformed.
Archdruid alters the components of spells. There is specific text that does that: "Additionally, you can ignore the verbal and somatic components of your druid spells, as well as any material components that lack a cost and aren’t consumed by a spell." Without such text, then you couldn't ignore those components.
Subtle Spell allows you to ignore V and S components. Again, it is the text of the feature specifically saying that you can do that which is what allows it.
(UA) Psionic Spellcasting. "When you cast a spell while in thought form, you can cast the spell psionically. If you do so, the spell doesn’t require verbal, somatic, or material components that lack a gold cost." Again, specific text telling you how the feature changes the components.
War Caster provides that you can perform somatic components without a free hand.
So there are in fact features that change the requirements of spells. I'm going to point something obvious out here: These features alter the components of spells by saying that they do. Pointing to a requirement that a spell doesn't have to say "that part of this requirement is waved because of this other requirement that this spell doesn't have" simply doesn't work. If a focus itself relieved component requirements, these examples show you that the text would say that.
There is only one thing that you said that was correct. Read, and reply to the critiques.
A hand holding a focus cannot fulfill S components normally. You know how we know that? Because there is an exception for when a spell has M and S components. That wouldn't need to be there if you didn't need a free hand sometimes. When do you sometimes need a free hand? When there is only an S component.
A hand holding a focus cannot fulfill S components normally. You know how we know that? Because there is an exception for when a spell has M and S components. That wouldn't need to be there if you didn't need a free hand sometimes. When do you sometimes need a free hand? When there is only an S component.
This is precious.
You are saying, that the rule saying you can hold a focus and do S components in the same hand... is what proves you CANNOT hold a focus and do S components in the same hand.
Wow. Just, wow.
Sorry but no. The hand is free if you're not using it for something else.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A spell's components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell's description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components.
A spell with an S (but not M) component has a requirement for a free hand. Nothing (***presented here***) relieves that requirement for S (but not M) spells (as pointed out, RAW, not even the tools requirement for Artificers). The particular component requirement is for the spell that you are casting. If you cannot meet the requirements of casting the spell you cannot cast it. Nothing about wanting to cast a S but not M spell with a focus changes the spell into having an M component that would change the requirements imposed by the S component.
So, there are rules telling you that you at least still need to be able to fulfill the requirements of the spell that you are casting. The requirements for particular spells are:
V: Ability to speak (unrelated and doesn't really matter to this discussion).
S: A free hand.
M: A free hand or a focus in hand.
S,M: A free hand or a focus in hand (not two free hands).
Yes. A hand holding a focus would be allowed for S components in the text of the requirement for somatic only spells if in fact you could use a focus for them. If there has to be an exception when you can do something, that means you usually cannot. Duh.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A spell's components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell's description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components.
A spell with an S (but not M) component has a requirement for a free hand. Nothing (***presented here***) relieves that requirement for S (but not M) spells (as pointed out, RAW, not even the tools requirement for Artificers). The particular component requirement is for the spell that you are casting. If you cannot meet the requirements of casting the spell you cannot cast it. Nothing about wanting to cast a S but not M spell with a focus changes the spell into having an M component that would change the requirements imposed by the S component.
So, there are rules telling you that you at least still need to be able to fulfill the requirements of the spell that you are casting. The requirements for particular spells are:
V: Ability to speak (unrelated and doesn't really matter to this discussion).
S: A free hand.
M: A free hand or a focus in hand.
S,M: A free hand or a focus in hand (not two free hands).
Read above.
We know that you cannot cast a spell with only an S component and no free hand sometimes -- first of all, because that is what the text says, and secondly, because there are exceptions that tell us when we can ignore that requirement. There would be no need for exceptions if you didn't need them, if for instance the rule didn't exist. I know that you won't understand this logic, so I'm only writing this for the other people who might read this.
There is no general rule that says that a hand with a focus in it is "free when it comes to spell casting" or anything of the like. There is an exception to spells with the requirement of M components... Which means that spells without that particular requirement are not subject to the exception, since it is specific to spells with that particular requirement.
Your (Rav) adjustments to my version of your argument are superficial- except for the inclusion of Expensive Materials, which is very MEH. In doing so, you seem to think you've proven that I don't get it. You are an ineffectual ass. Keep at it Wolf, keep pounding this guy down. When you get tired, someone else will pick it up until this thread gets locked or some such.
Also, nice inclusion of the word stawman just to trigger. I'm not wasting energy pointing how how I didn't bring up anything you didn't say.
You do not need to equip, wield, or otherwise maintain occupancy in your hand continuously of any material component, spell component pouch, or focus, to cast a spell. Your hand needs to be free and available to handle it, which means it cannot be performing some other action, such as wielding a shield, or wielding a weapon.
Because of this fact, all you need is a hand free, ie not doing something else, to provide both the M and S components of a spell. Casting a spell takes... one free hand. (Unless it is V only)
Period. End of story. Everything else in this thread is wrong. Wrong RAW, wrong RAI, wrong RAF. Wrong.
One. Free. Hand. For Spellcasting.
Handling components isn't an action. Holding them, pulling them out, putting them away. Not actions. You don't need to use an action to pull a wand out or to put it away. You don't even, RAW, need to ever draw it at all. You simply need a hand free to hold it. A Holy Symbol around your neck isn't draw, wielded, equipped. You just reach up and hold onto it while using it as a focus.
The notion that a focus even occupies a hand is NONSENSE. You're not wielding it. It is not in use for something (besides the spellcasting it is for).
If you pull out a diamond to cast Chromatic Orb... does the diamond get equipped? Does it take an action to draw it? To stow it? To wield it? NO. NO it doesn't. You never use the Use an Object action... you interact with it for free as part of the action of casting a spell.
Your hand is always free unless it is doing something! Mechanically speaking. RAW.
There is no such thing as wielding a focus. UNLESS it is ALSO something that can be wielded. IE the SHIELD. You wield a shield to gain +2 AC. You can't wield an Arcane Focus. That concept has no meaning. RAW. Not unless you specifically decide to do something super weird like wield an arcane focus as an improvised weapon. But just holding it? That's no DOING SOMETHING with the hand, not in game terms it isn't. Not nitty gritty RAW it isn't.
The game makes no distinction to how you describe your interaction with the material components, the spell pouch, or to the focus. How you describe that interaction is entirely in the purview of the player or DM. The Rules DO NOT CARE. The rules ONLY care that your hand isn't doing something else, IE Wielding a shield.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A spell's components are the physical requirements you must meet in order to cast it. Each spell's description indicates whether it requires verbal (V), somatic (S), or material (M) components.
A spell with an S (but not M) component has a requirement for a free hand. Nothing (***presented here***) relieves that requirement for S (but not M) spells (as pointed out, RAW, not even the tools requirement for Artificers). The particular component requirement is for the spell that you are casting. If you cannot meet the requirements of casting the spell you cannot cast it. Nothing about wanting to cast a S but not M spell with a focus changes the spell into having an M component that would change the requirements imposed by the S component.
So, there are rules telling you that you at least still need to be able to fulfill the requirements of the spell that you are casting. The requirements for particular spells are:
V: Ability to speak (unrelated and doesn't really matter to this discussion).
S: A free hand.
M: A free hand or a focus in hand.
S,M: A free hand or a focus in hand (not two free hands).
Read above.
We know that you cannot cast a spell with only an S component and no free hand sometimes -- first of all, because that is what the text says, and secondly, because there are exceptions that tell us when we can ignore that requirement. There would be no need for exceptions if you didn't need them, if for instance the rule didn't exist. I know that you won't understand this logic, so I'm only writing this for the other people who might read this.
There is no general rule that says that a hand with a focus in it is "free when it comes to spell casting" or anything of the like. There is an exception to spells with the requirement of M components... Which means that spells without that particular requirement are not subject to the exception, since it is specific to spells with that particular requirement.
Nothing you said has anything to do with the problem of your interpretation.
If your supposition is that holding something doesn’t prevent that hand from being free then why have a requirement for it?
Having a free hand means that. There is no magic definition in the books that says a focus in hand counts as free. You have to use English to figure out what free hand means.
We know that you cannot cast a spell with only an S component and no free hand sometimes -- first of all, because that is what the text says, and secondly, because there are exceptions that tell us when we can ignore that requirement.
Actually, we don't know that. There is no exception in the requirement for a free hand for using a focus, the exception is that the required free hand may be used to hold the focus. There are exceptions for class and monster abilities that say to ignore requirements, but those are basically just removing the entire component from the spell.
If you pull out a diamond to cast Chromatic Orb... does the diamond get equipped? Does it take an action to draw it? To stow it? To wield it? NO. NO it doesn't. You never use the Use an Object action... you interact with it for free as part of the action of casting a spell.
Sigh ... why do I even want to help anymore? Anyway, I'm pretty sure there's something off about this bit specifically. You get one free item interaction as part of your turn, but not unlimited item interactions. Sure, you can draw out the diamond, but then it would take another interaction to put it away, meanwhile, that hand is occupied.
"You can also interact with one object or feature of The Environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to Attack."
Oh, here some more evidence that a spellcasting focus occupies an hand an makes it not free, though someone may already have mentioned it: Wand Sheathe
Note that it says "You can retract or extend a wand from the sheath as a bonus action. While the wand is extended, you can use it as if you were holding it, but your hand remains free" which is pretty clearly opposed the normal case of things where, when you hold a wand, your hand is not free.
If you pull out a diamond to cast Chromatic Orb... does the diamond get equipped? Does it take an action to draw it? To stow it? To wield it? NO. NO it doesn't. You never use the Use an Object action... you interact with it for free as part of the action of casting a spell.
Your turn can include a variety of flourishes that require neither your action nor your move.
You can communicate however you are able, through brief utterances and gestures, as you take your turn.
You can also interact with one object or feature of the environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to attack.
If you want to interact with a second object, you need to use your action. Some magic items and other special objects always require an action to use, as stated in their descriptions.
The DM might require you to use an action for any of these activities when it needs special care or when it presents an unusual obstacle. For instance, the DM could reasonably expect you to use an action to open a stuck door or turn a crank to lower a drawbridge.
So quite literally, if you pick your freaking nose and flick the booger as your “one free interaction” for your turn, than it costs an action to pull out the diamond. And if you want your hand empty, you either have to drop the diamond, or wait until your next turn to put it away with your one free interaction that turn. If you flick another booger, it costs another whole action to put the diamond away.
That exact action economy is why you can use a Spellcasting Focus forums do S components for spells that also have M components, but cannot for spells that do not have M components. That is the entire point.
Once we get to the point of grasping at straws for arguments such as "what really is a free hand anyway?" then I think we're really beyond the point of useful discussion.
BTW, if you're unsure, the reason is that it isn't defined in the books, and it's not defined in the books because it is hecking obvious.
Once we get to the point of grasping at straws for arguments such as "what really is a free hand anyway?" then I think we're really beyond the point of useful discussion.
BTW, if you're unsure, the reason is that it isn't defined in the books, and it's not defined in the books because it is hecking obvious.
The problem is that the obvious definition of a free hand doesn't work unless it's assumed that the material component or focus is not initially in hand and is pulled out as part of the M component interaction, because the rules do not allow you to cast with a non-free hand that holds a focus -- you must have a free hand, it's just that the free hand can be used to handle a focus.
Note that this doesn't have to require an object interaction, you do not need an object interaction to draw an arrow when firing a bow, it's part of the action to fire a bow, but it does mean that your hand must have started out empty when you started casting the spell. Which is probably not how the focus rules are meant to work.
Once we get to the point of grasping at straws for arguments such as "what really is a free hand anyway?" then I think we're really beyond the point of useful discussion.
BTW, if you're unsure, the reason is that it isn't defined in the books, and it's not defined in the books because it is hecking obvious.
The problem is that the obvious definition of a free hand doesn't work unless it's assumed that the material component or focus is not initially in hand and is pulled out as part of the M component interaction, because the rules do not allow you to cast with a non-free hand that holds a focus -- you must have a free hand, it's just that the free hand can be used to handle a focus.
Note that this doesn't have to require an object interaction, you do not need an object interaction to draw an arrow when firing a bow, it's part of the action to fire a bow, but it does mean that your hand must have started out empty when you started casting the spell. Which is probably not how the focus rules are meant to work.
That is an interpretation, for sure. Do we have to go through defining what a free hand is for you?
The problem is that the obvious definition of a free hand doesn't work unless it's assumed that the material component or focus is not initially in hand and is pulled out as part of the M component interaction, because the rules do not allow you to cast with a non-free hand that holds a focus -- you must have a free hand, it's just that the free hand can be used to handle a focus.
Note that this doesn't have to require an object interaction, you do not need an object interaction to draw an arrow when firing a bow, it's part of the action to fire a bow, but it does mean that your hand must have started out empty when you started casting the spell. Which is probably not how the focus rules are meant to work.
Drawing an arrow and firing it as part of the attack action seems like a specific exemption that is allowed with arrows. Notice that it does use up your free interaction to draw a sword and attack with it, so it's not a universal thing applied to all weapons. So I wouldn't extrapolate that to drawing foci and casting in the same action, I would default to it using up your free interaction.
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I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
The problem is that the obvious definition of a free hand doesn't work unless it's assumed that the material component or focus is not initially in hand and is pulled out as part of the M component interaction, because the rules do not allow you to cast with a non-free hand that holds a focus -- you must have a free hand, it's just that the free hand can be used to handle a focus.
Note that this doesn't have to require an object interaction, you do not need an object interaction to draw an arrow when firing a bow, it's part of the action to fire a bow, but it does mean that your hand must have started out empty when you started casting the spell. Which is probably not how the focus rules are meant to work.
Drawing an arrow and firing it as part of the attack action seems like a specific exemption that is allowed with arrows. Notice that it does use up your free interaction to draw a sword and attack with it, so it's not a universal thing applied to all weapons. So I wouldn't extrapolate that to drawing foci and casting in the same action, I would default to it using up your free interaction.
That’s because the rules for ammo specify that drawing the ammo “from a container” and loading it is part of the attack that uses the ammo. So technically, if they are not in a Quiver or Case, Crossbow Bolt, it takes an action (or free item interaction) to draw one piece of ammo.
You're right the rules don't use the word "only." That is why it was not in quotes. But there is only one rule about when you can use a focus (which is when casting a material component spell). I already explained why material component rules only apply when a material component is needed and you have not refuted that argument.
There is only one rule for when you can use an arcane focus, correct. But you're entirely wrong about where and what that rule is. That one rule is in the item description itself. A sorcerer, wizard, or warlock can use one when they cast their arcane spells. Period.
Lets take a look at the direct quote of the item description in the PHB: "A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in chapter 10." Nothing here says they can cast any spell. It says it is used how it is described in ch10. Ch10 says it can be used for spells with material components.
And *when* they do so, they specifically use the rules for the focus listed in the Spellcasting section, found in the Material Component rules. (Because that's what the item references)
Nothing about the rules found in that section tells us that there is any additional restriction of when the focus can or can't be used. You are fabricating that. It doesn't exist.
Rules context (ie chapter, header, etc) is just as important as any other part of the written rule. As far as I know, you have not disproven my point from last year on this issue.
The only rule for when it can be used is found in the item description itself.
The description of this item says which objects count as this item and to follow the rules in a different chapter on usage. Foci item descriptions have 0 rules on usage. The spellcasting rules must be followed.
When checking the description of the focus item, it says to reference spellcasting rules. Spellcasting rules are quite clear when a spell requires your hand to be empty and when it allows you to be holding something. If a spell requires a somatic component, your hand must be empty. These rules are only specifically changed by material component rules. Material component rules of spell casting only apply if the spell you are casting has a material component. Again, as proven by my previous argument which you have not refuted.
Yeah, it says to reference the exact rules that you're claiming aren't being referenced. The material component rules normally only apply if your spell has material components true, UNLESS some other rule/ability/object/etc specifically references them. Which the Arcane Focus does.
I don't know how you got it completely backward, but I am in fact claiming that this rule reference is the most important part of the item's description. I don't know how my directly stating that these rules were being refered to made you think I was claiming the opposite.
Just because you are holding a focus does not mean every action you take now includes the material component rules. That isn't what the focus's description/rules say. The spellcasting rules must still be followed because no exceptions are specifically created.
So, they become relevant because they are being referenced specifically by the object being used.
Tell you what. When you take the "use item" action with your focus, you can follow those item rules. When you take the "cast a spell" action you have to follow the spellcasting rules.
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Like Improved Pact Weapon Invocation for Pact of the Blade (Because being able to combine the weapon and the Arcane Focus into one thing so your other hand is “free” to perform S components for spells without M components is a feature they have to spend multiple resources to get. Ruby of the War Mage is a freaking magic item people hope to get for the same benefit. Or the Warcaster feat that people give up ASIs to get. Too bad for all of those players and characters they didn’t know that all they had to do was ignore several paragraphs from the ruses and they wouldn’t need those things.)
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Lets actually look at some features that DO change components of spells:
Beast spells for druid says how it affects V and S components: You can provide them in wild shape form. This is true because the feature says it. It also says you cannot provide material components -- that part would apply even if you had a focus on your person or in your hand when you used wildshape whether or not you chose for that item to still be carried when you transformed.
Archdruid alters the components of spells. There is specific text that does that: "Additionally, you can ignore the verbal and somatic components of your druid spells, as well as any material components that lack a cost and aren’t consumed by a spell." Without such text, then you couldn't ignore those components.
Subtle Spell allows you to ignore V and S components. Again, it is the text of the feature specifically saying that you can do that which is what allows it.
(UA) Psionic Spellcasting. "When you cast a spell while in thought form, you can cast the spell psionically. If you do so, the spell doesn’t require verbal, somatic, or material components that lack a gold cost." Again, specific text telling you how the feature changes the components.
War Caster provides that you can perform somatic components without a free hand.
So there are in fact features that change the requirements of spells. I'm going to point something obvious out here: These features alter the components of spells by saying that they do. Pointing to a requirement that a spell doesn't have to say "that part of this requirement is waved because of this other requirement that this spell doesn't have" simply doesn't work. If a focus itself relieved component requirements, these examples show you that the text would say that.
You just demonstrate you don't understand the argument being made, and just dramatically mischaracterized what I said. Corrected:
Everything seems silly if you mischaracterize and strawman it.
Nothing I've said is contradictory.
Holding a weapon means the hand isn't free because it is wielding a weapon. Holding a shield means the hand isn't free because it is holding a shield. Holding a focus means the hand IS free because all it is going to be used for is spellcasting.
We already covered that you don't even need to hold the focus in your hand continuously, the focus needn't occupy the hand all the time it must only be temporarily grasped during the casting of the spell. As long as the hand isn't DOING anything else, it is free to cast spells. Holding a focus by definition means the hand is free., because it quite literally can't be doing anything else.
The exception is, of course, the silly shield. Because a shield IS something else, So it is ONLY a focus when being used as one, and not one when it isn't being used as one. THAT'S why IT was the example in the sage advice!
Guys. This isn't hard.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
There is only one thing that you said that was correct. Read, and reply to the critiques.
A hand holding a focus cannot fulfill S components normally. You know how we know that? Because there is an exception for when a spell has M and S components. That wouldn't need to be there if you didn't need a free hand sometimes. When do you sometimes need a free hand? When there is only an S component.
Guys. This isn't hard.
This is precious.
You are saying, that the rule saying you can hold a focus and do S components in the same hand... is what proves you CANNOT hold a focus and do S components in the same hand.
Wow. Just, wow.
Sorry but no. The hand is free if you're not using it for something else.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A spell with an S (but not M) component has a requirement for a free hand. Nothing (***presented here***) relieves that requirement for S (but not M) spells (as pointed out, RAW, not even the tools requirement for Artificers). The particular component requirement is for the spell that you are casting. If you cannot meet the requirements of casting the spell you cannot cast it. Nothing about wanting to cast a S but not M spell with a focus changes the spell into having an M component that would change the requirements imposed by the S component.
So, there are rules telling you that you at least still need to be able to fulfill the requirements of the spell that you are casting. The requirements for particular spells are:
Yes. A hand holding a focus would be allowed for S components in the text of the requirement for somatic only spells if in fact you could use a focus for them. If there has to be an exception when you can do something, that means you usually cannot. Duh.
We know you can't cast a spell with S components while holding a focus because of the rules text saying that we can. ~WolfOfTheBees
Naw. Your hand is free as long as you're not using it for something other than spellcasting.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
A spell with an S (but not M) component has a requirement for a free hand. Nothing (***presented here***) relieves that requirement for S (but not M) spells (as pointed out, RAW, not even the tools requirement for Artificers). The particular component requirement is for the spell that you are casting. If you cannot meet the requirements of casting the spell you cannot cast it. Nothing about wanting to cast a S but not M spell with a focus changes the spell into having an M component that would change the requirements imposed by the S component.
So, there are rules telling you that you at least still need to be able to fulfill the requirements of the spell that you are casting. The requirements for particular spells are:
Read above.
We know that you cannot cast a spell with only an S component and no free hand sometimes -- first of all, because that is what the text says, and secondly, because there are exceptions that tell us when we can ignore that requirement. There would be no need for exceptions if you didn't need them, if for instance the rule didn't exist. I know that you won't understand this logic, so I'm only writing this for the other people who might read this.
There is no general rule that says that a hand with a focus in it is "free when it comes to spell casting" or anything of the like. There is an exception to spells with the requirement of M components... Which means that spells without that particular requirement are not subject to the exception, since it is specific to spells with that particular requirement.
Your (Rav) adjustments to my version of your argument are superficial- except for the inclusion of Expensive Materials, which is very MEH. In doing so, you seem to think you've proven that I don't get it. You are an ineffectual ass. Keep at it Wolf, keep pounding this guy down. When you get tired, someone else will pick it up until this thread gets locked or some such.
Also, nice inclusion of the word stawman just to trigger. I'm not wasting energy pointing how how I didn't bring up anything you didn't say.
You do not need to equip, wield, or otherwise maintain occupancy in your hand continuously of any material component, spell component pouch, or focus, to cast a spell. Your hand needs to be free and available to handle it, which means it cannot be performing some other action, such as wielding a shield, or wielding a weapon.
Because of this fact, all you need is a hand free, ie not doing something else, to provide both the M and S components of a spell. Casting a spell takes... one free hand. (Unless it is V only)
Period. End of story. Everything else in this thread is wrong. Wrong RAW, wrong RAI, wrong RAF. Wrong.
One. Free. Hand. For Spellcasting.
Handling components isn't an action. Holding them, pulling them out, putting them away. Not actions. You don't need to use an action to pull a wand out or to put it away. You don't even, RAW, need to ever draw it at all. You simply need a hand free to hold it. A Holy Symbol around your neck isn't draw, wielded, equipped. You just reach up and hold onto it while using it as a focus.
The notion that a focus even occupies a hand is NONSENSE. You're not wielding it. It is not in use for something (besides the spellcasting it is for).
If you pull out a diamond to cast Chromatic Orb... does the diamond get equipped? Does it take an action to draw it? To stow it? To wield it? NO. NO it doesn't. You never use the Use an Object action... you interact with it for free as part of the action of casting a spell.
Your hand is always free unless it is doing something! Mechanically speaking. RAW.
There is no such thing as wielding a focus. UNLESS it is ALSO something that can be wielded. IE the SHIELD. You wield a shield to gain +2 AC. You can't wield an Arcane Focus. That concept has no meaning. RAW. Not unless you specifically decide to do something super weird like wield an arcane focus as an improvised weapon. But just holding it? That's no DOING SOMETHING with the hand, not in game terms it isn't. Not nitty gritty RAW it isn't.
The game makes no distinction to how you describe your interaction with the material components, the spell pouch, or to the focus. How you describe that interaction is entirely in the purview of the player or DM. The Rules DO NOT CARE. The rules ONLY care that your hand isn't doing something else, IE Wielding a shield.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
Nothing you said has anything to do with the problem of your interpretation.
If your supposition is that holding something doesn’t prevent that hand from being free then why have a requirement for it?
Having a free hand means that. There is no magic definition in the books that says a focus in hand counts as free. You have to use English to figure out what free hand means.
Actually, we don't know that. There is no exception in the requirement for a free hand for using a focus, the exception is that the required free hand may be used to hold the focus. There are exceptions for class and monster abilities that say to ignore requirements, but those are basically just removing the entire component from the spell.
Sigh ... why do I even want to help anymore? Anyway, I'm pretty sure there's something off about this bit specifically. You get one free item interaction as part of your turn, but not unlimited item interactions. Sure, you can draw out the diamond, but then it would take another interaction to put it away, meanwhile, that hand is occupied.
"You can also interact with one object or feature of The Environment for free, during either your move or your action. For example, you could open a door during your move as you stride toward a foe, or you could draw your weapon as part of the same action you use to Attack."
Oh, here some more evidence that a spellcasting focus occupies an hand an makes it not free, though someone may already have mentioned it: Wand Sheathe
Note that it says "You can retract or extend a wand from the sheath as a bonus action. While the wand is extended, you can use it as if you were holding it, but your hand remains free" which is pretty clearly opposed the normal case of things where, when you hold a wand, your hand is not free.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
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To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Sorry Ophidimancer, I still have them blocked, this is the only way I can do it.
Go ahead, click this link.
—>https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#YourTurn You know you want to.
So quite literally, if you pick your freaking nose and flick the booger as your “one free interaction” for your turn, than it costs an action to pull out the diamond. And if you want your hand empty, you either have to drop the diamond, or wait until your next turn to put it away with your one free interaction that turn. If you flick another booger, it costs another whole action to put the diamond away.
That exact action economy is why you can use a Spellcasting Focus forums do S components for spells that also have M components, but cannot for spells that do not have M components. That is the entire point.
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Once we get to the point of grasping at straws for arguments such as "what really is a free hand anyway?" then I think we're really beyond the point of useful discussion.
BTW, if you're unsure, the reason is that it isn't defined in the books, and it's not defined in the books because it is hecking obvious.
The problem is that the obvious definition of a free hand doesn't work unless it's assumed that the material component or focus is not initially in hand and is pulled out as part of the M component interaction, because the rules do not allow you to cast with a non-free hand that holds a focus -- you must have a free hand, it's just that the free hand can be used to handle a focus.
Note that this doesn't have to require an object interaction, you do not need an object interaction to draw an arrow when firing a bow, it's part of the action to fire a bow, but it does mean that your hand must have started out empty when you started casting the spell. Which is probably not how the focus rules are meant to work.
That is an interpretation, for sure. Do we have to go through defining what a free hand is for you?
Drawing an arrow and firing it as part of the attack action seems like a specific exemption that is allowed with arrows. Notice that it does use up your free interaction to draw a sword and attack with it, so it's not a universal thing applied to all weapons. So I wouldn't extrapolate that to drawing foci and casting in the same action, I would default to it using up your free interaction.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
That’s because the rules for ammo specify that drawing the ammo “from a container” and loading it is part of the attack that uses the ammo. So technically, if they are not in a Quiver or Case, Crossbow Bolt, it takes an action (or free item interaction) to draw one piece of ammo.
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Lets take a look at the direct quote of the item description in the PHB: "A sorcerer, warlock, or wizard can use such an item as a spellcasting focus, as described in chapter 10." Nothing here says they can cast any spell. It says it is used how it is described in ch10. Ch10 says it can be used for spells with material components.
Rules context (ie chapter, header, etc) is just as important as any other part of the written rule. As far as I know, you have not disproven my point from last year on this issue.
The description of this item says which objects count as this item and to follow the rules in a different chapter on usage. Foci item descriptions have 0 rules on usage. The spellcasting rules must be followed.
I don't know how you got it completely backward, but I am in fact claiming that this rule reference is the most important part of the item's description. I don't know how my directly stating that these rules were being refered to made you think I was claiming the opposite.
Just because you are holding a focus does not mean every action you take now includes the material component rules. That isn't what the focus's description/rules say. The spellcasting rules must still be followed because no exceptions are specifically created.
Tell you what. When you take the "use item" action with your focus, you can follow those item rules. When you take the "cast a spell" action you have to follow the spellcasting rules.