I have a hard time imagining that this webbing would be capable of just folding up a massively powerful creature's wings and, in certain cases, I might also homebrew in an early strength save.
Oh, you'd change the rules on them because of a difficulty imagining something. Huh.
RAW, the save for not being restrained happens at the start of the creature's turn with the effect that the strength check so as to no longer be restrained can come immediately after. The immediate effect is that, a failed dex save means that you burn an action of target creature. On a failed strength save it plummets.
To say that the dex save comes before the creature's turn is a departure from RAW.
So, web. At the start of the creature's turn they'll make a Dex save. If they fail that save they become restrained. Unless they can hover, that means their speed is now 0 and they immediately fall 500ft. After they fall, they can take their action to attempt to break free. If the up to 500ft fall took them out of the spell area they're automatically free.
Picture magical webs appearing in the air all around them, snagging them and bringing them to an abrupt halt, then their weight pulling them free of the webs and hurling down into the ground below.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I have a hard time imagining that this webbing would be capable of just folding up a massively powerful creature's wings and, in certain cases, I might also homebrew in an early strength save.
Oh, you'd change the rules on them because of a difficulty imagining something. Huh.
RAW, the save for not being restrained happens at the start of the creature's turn with the effect that the strength check so as to no longer be restrained can come immediately after. The immediate effect is that, a failed dex save means that you burn an action of target creature. On a failed strength save it plummets.
To say that the dex save comes before the creature's turn is a departure from RAW.
So, web. At the start of the creature's turn they'll make a Dex save. If they fail that save they become restrained. Unless they can hover, that means their speed is now 0 and they immediately fall 500ft. After they fall, they can take their action to attempt to break free. If the up to 500ft fall took them out of the spell area they're automatically free.
Picture magical webs appearing in the air all around them, snagging them and bringing them to an abrupt halt, then their weight pulling them free of the webs and hurling down into the ground below.
So the creature could be your aarakocra battle master, it could be a 20 ft wingspan pegasus, it could be any dragon caught at such a time as their wings spanned 20 ft.
It's your aarakocra's turn and they're in action. They try at a dex save and fail - but it's still their turn and they're still in action. They make their strength save and pull themselves free. Or what would you say should happen to your aarakocra? Would they be unable to act on their turn?
The starting position for your aarakocra would be as having it's wings out. It's flying. It's all ready to make a strength saving throw. Sure you could make it use its reaction to enable it to make it but please, give your aarakocra a chance. It would be your aarakocra's mighty strength that would give it its chance to keep itself with wings spread and to pull itself free. Its weight wouldn't be the thing to pull it free.
I'd hope my players checked their plans for this with me first as they might be disappointed.
If players planed thinking that they could subvert what an opponent could do on their turn then I'd hope they wouldn't be disappointed.
Your Turn "On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first. ..."
Your aarakocra can't move but it can take an action. It uses its action to attempt its strength saving throw. It's so tense. What is your aarakocra's modifier?
I have a hard time imagining that this webbing would be capable of just folding up a massively powerful creature's wings and, in certain cases, I might also homebrew in an early strength save.
Oh, you'd change the rules on them because of a difficulty imagining something. Huh.
RAW, the save for not being restrained happens at the start of the creature's turn with the effect that the strength check so as to no longer be restrained can come immediately after. The immediate effect is that, a failed dex save means that you burn an action of target creature. On a failed strength save it plummets.
To say that the dex save comes before the creature's turn is a departure from RAW.
So, web. At the start of the creature's turn they'll make a Dex save. If they fail that save they become restrained. Unless they can hover, that means their speed is now 0 and they immediately fall 500ft. After they fall, they can take their action to attempt to break free. If the up to 500ft fall took them out of the spell area they're automatically free.
Picture magical webs appearing in the air all around them, snagging them and bringing them to an abrupt halt, then their weight pulling them free of the webs and hurling down into the ground below.
So the creature could be your aarakocra battle master, it could be a 20 ft wingspan pegasus, it could be any dragon caught at such a time as their wings spanned 20 ft.
It's your aarakocra's turn and they're in action. They try at a dex save and fail - but it's still their turn and they're still in action.
When they fail at the start of their turn their speed drops to 0 and they immediately fall up to 500ft.
They make their strength save and pull themselves free.
Probably unnecessary TBH. Unless they're still in the web area, they will have fallen out of the spell effect and not need to break out. They also don't need to save to break out if the fall killed them already.
Or what would you say should happen to your aarakocra? Would they be unable to act on their turn?
Creatures who fall to their death are now objects and do not get to act, correct.
The starting position for your aarakocra would be as having it's wings out. It's flying.
Sure but irrelevant.
It's all ready to make a strength saving throw.
When it gets to his Action, sure, he can use an action to make the save. But, he'll fall before that.
Sure you could make it use its reaction to enable it to make it but please, give your aarakocra a chance.
He has a chance. The dex save. web calls for a dex save. Fail it and be affected by the spell.
It would be your aarakocra's mighty strength that would give it its chance to keep itself with wings spread and to pull itself free.
I'd hope my players checked their plans for this with me first as they might be disappointed.
If players planed thinking that they could subvert what an opponent could do on their turn then I'd hope they wouldn't be disappointed.
Your Turn "On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first. ..."
The spell offers them a dex save. if they fail it they're affected by the spell. IDK why that is a problem you feel you need to homebrew. But, if you do homebrew it please have the courtesy to let your players know before one tries to use it in the middle of combat and you're intentionally changing rules to prevent their spells from having their intended effects.
Your aarakocra can't move but it can take an action.
Oh, no. It immediately moves. Straight down up to 500ft.
It uses its action to attempt its strength saving throw. It's so tense. What is your aarakocra's modifier?
19
If it somehow remains in the area, if maybe it was flying only like 10' off the ground or something, and only took 1d6 fall damage. Sure, yes, it could then use its action to attempt to break free after the fall.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
The starting position for your aarakocra would be as having it's wings out. It's flying.
Sure but irrelevant.
I'd see a starting position as having wings out and starting situation as flying as pretty relevant. I guess this is where we differ.
Your character is in full action. It's engaging it's physical abilities. It dodges and weaves. I don't see any reason why your character would then just stop and not resist the effects of the web.
Your character's a flying creature. It's engaged in the activity of flying. It's already doing that. Something tries to get in the way of that and the natural, instinctual response to that, for a flying creature, up in the air, would be to try to keep flying. It's their turn to shine and all they'd need do is to make the effort to try to keep on doing what they were already doing. As soon as there was restraint, the flying creature would naturally fight against it. They're in the process of flying. They'd naturally try to continue - unless they wanted to die.
... It would be your aarakocra's mighty strength that would give it its chance to keep itself with wings spread and to pull itself free.
The spell says dex save.
The spell says,
Each creature that starts its turn in the webs or that enters them during its turn must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is restrained as long as it remains in the webs or until it breaks free.
A creature restrained by the webs can use its action to make a Strength check against your spell save DC. If it succeeds, it is no longer restrained.
This relates to an Aarakocra that is already flying and just needs to try to keep doing what its doing.
I think you're pushing interpretations to say that it wouldn't be fighting against the restraint from the moment it applied, It's the Aarakocra's turn.
If players planed thinking that they could subvert what an opponent could do on their turn then I'd hope they wouldn't be disappointed.
Your Turn "On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first. ..."
The spell offers them a dex save. if they fail it they're affected by the spell. IDK why that is a problem you feel you need to homebrew. But, if you do homebrew it please have the courtesy to let your players know before one tries to use it in the middle of combat and you're intentionally changing rules to prevent their spells from having their intended effects. ...
It's not homebrew. It's a simple view that an Aarakocra that was already flying would try to keep flying as soon as something tried to stop them flying. It wouldn't even take an instant reaction, they'd just need to try to get back into doing what they were already doing. If a wizard somewhere could spot a creature falling and have the reaction speed to cast feather fall, then I think that an Aarakocra can have the reaction speed to get back into doing what they were already doing.
If you want to interpret that your Aarakocra would just give up the attempt to continue what they were doing, that's up to you. Happy landings.
The starting position for your aarakocra would be as having it's wings out. It's flying.
Sure but irrelevant.
I'd see a starting position as having wings out and starting situation as flying as pretty relevant. I guess this is where we differ.
Right it is where we differ. I know there is no such thing as "wings out" in 5e rules. You do not.
Your character is in full action. It's engaging it's physical abilities. It dodges and weaves. I don't see any reason why your character would then just stop and not resist the effects of the web.
Because they failed their Dex save. Failing saves has consequences.
Your character's a flying creature. It's engaged in the activity of flying. It's already doing that. Something tries to get in the way of that and the natural, instinctual response to that, for a flying creature, up in the air, would be to try to keep flying.
If they pass their dex save then they succeeding in doing exactly that.
It's their turn to shine and all they'd need do is to make the effort to try to keep on doing what they were already doing.
By passing their dex save.
As soon as there was restraint, the flying creature would naturally fight against it.
In 5e, if you are a flying creature, and your speed is reduced to 0... you immediately fall. That is the rules.
Point blank. Just is the rules.
You don't have to agree with the rules but that conversation is for a new topic in the homebrew forum.
They're in the process of flying. They'd naturally try to continue - unless they wanted to die.
Right, and that effort to try to continue is represented by a dex save.
... It would be your aarakocra's mighty strength that would give it its chance to keep itself with wings spread and to pull itself free.
The spell says dex save.
The spell says,
Each creature that starts its turn in the webs or that enters them during its turn must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is restrained as long as it remains in the webs or until it breaks free.
A creature restrained by the webs can use its action to make a Strength check against your spell save DC. If it succeeds, it is no longer restrained.
Yep, dex save.
This relates to an Aarakocra that is already flying and just needs to try to keep doing what its doing.
By passing the dex save...
I think you're pushing interpretations to say that it wouldn't be fighting against the restraint from the moment it applied, It's the Aarakocra's turn.
It doesn't matter if it is strong enough to rip apart the webs and break out. Its speed hit 0. Have you ever seen a bird hit a window? They don't coast to the ground. They fall.
If you fail the dex save you have slammed directly into magical webs and have halted to a stop. Your speed is 0 and you cannot fly. You're in the air. You cannot fly. So...
You fall.
If players planed thinking that they could subvert what an opponent could do on their turn then I'd hope they wouldn't be disappointed.
Your Turn "On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first. ..."
The spell offers them a dex save. if they fail it they're affected by the spell. IDK why that is a problem you feel you need to homebrew. But, if you do homebrew it please have the courtesy to let your players know before one tries to use it in the middle of combat and you're intentionally changing rules to prevent their spells from having their intended effects. ...
It's not homebrew. It's a simple view that an Aarakocra that was already flying would try to keep flying as soon as something tried to stop them flying. It wouldn't even take an instant reaction, they'd just need to try to get back into doing what they were already doing. If a wizard somewhere could spot a creature falling and have the reaction speed to cast feather fall, then I think that an Aarakocra can have the reaction speed to get back into doing what they were already doing.
If you want to interpret that your Aarakocra would just give up the attempt to continue what they were doing, that's up to you. Happy landings.
If you fail the dex save you are restrained. Per the spell.
A restrained creature has a speed of 0. per the contitions rules.
A flying creature that has a speed of 0 immediately falls. Per movement rules.
That's it. That's all there is to it. If you disagree you're wrong. If you wanna change it that's cool but that's homebrew.
Edit: For your consideration... the Owlfolk even have an ability that could help them, specifically, in a situation like this. Called Nimble Flight. "When you fall, you can use your reaction to make a Dexterity saving throw (DC 10) to stop falling and fly in place until the start of your next turn." These guys could use their reaction to stop the fall before hitting the ground and be fine. Why? because they have an ability that allows them to stop a fall.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You might want to follow some of your own advice Ravnodus - “RAW<RAI. You let a badly written rule dictate your play? Play as intended.” they have the Dex save yes and if they pass it they slip thru the web spell no problem. If they fail it they still have a strength save to rip the webbing enough to stop being restrained - if they pass the strength save they recover their flight - probably at a lower level. Forcing them to instantly fall the 500’ between the 2 saves may be RAW but it isn’t RAI. If they fail both saves fine they fall and take appropriate fall damage. By the way the 500’ fall distance is roughly the distance you would fall from a “standing start” in 6 seconds so it’s fair to say that at the end of a round anyone/thing not flying/hovering/levitated falls instantly the 500’ or less distance to the ground but during their turn they still get to take their actions and make ALL the saves they are entitled to.
You might want to follow some of your own advice Ravnodus - “RAW<RAI. You let a badly written rule dictate your play? Play as intended.”
2 Entirely different conversations. Discussing what is clearly and plainly RAW vs discussing how someone should implement it in their game. One is objective, the other is subjective.
they have the Dex save yes and if they pass it they slip thru the web spell no problem.
yep
If they fail it they still have a strength save to rip the webbing enough to stop being restrained - if they pass the strength save they recover their flight - probably at a lower level.
nope. their speed immediately drops to 0, they can't fly, and they fall. That is the rules. Objectively, you're wrong.
Do you have to play that way at your table? of course not. But it is RAW.
You not wanting that to be RAW doesn't not make it RAW.
Forcing them to instantly fall the 500’ between the 2 saves may be RAW but it isn’t RAI.
Flying creatures with 0 fly speed fall. That absolutely is RAI. How do we know this? because they give some creatures Hover.
If a creature can hover they do not fall when their speed hits 0. They just... hover.
If they fail both saves fine they fall and take appropriate fall damage.
If they fail the dex save it means they failed and are restrained. Aside from not being inline with RAW or RAI it is really weird to demand this is the only spell that needs to have someone fail two saves back to back before they can suffer any consequences from it.
Fail save, spell affects you. That's normal. That's expected. It's how everything in this game works. Fail save get affected. Succeed on save don't get affected.
By the way the 500’ fall distance is roughly the distance you would fall from a “standing start” in 6 seconds so it’s fair to say that at the end of a round anyone/thing not flying/hovering/levitated falls instantly the 500’ or less distance to the ground but during their turn they still get to take their actions and make ALL the saves they are entitled to.
Again, you seem to want to start a fight with the rules themselves.
Genuinely, I recommend the battlefield for that battle is going on over in the Homebrew forum, not this one.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
First; Considering that the spell says that the web collapses, I think that if you cast it in a point that's in mid-air, it's probably supposed to immediately fall out of the space you cast it in and to the ground, functionally doing nothing unless there happened to be a creature under where you cast it. Second; Gergkyae, you're misinterpreting the spell. The roll to break out of the webs isn't a *saving throw* it's a *check*, which requires an action. Let me paint you a picture without using any rules language: The web explodes around your aaracokra, and snares all of his limbs. He plummets, struggling valiantly against his bonds, but he is unable to break them before he slams into the ground. That said, the weird thing about this is that Web says a target is restrained until it's no longer in the area of the webs; which means it falls 20 feet at worst, and then is no longer restrained. Should that mean it stops falling, since it gets its flying movement back? I dunno. Like I said in point 1, I think the spell's probably not meant to actually work this way.
After reading the spell's description in the context of the question, and, in particular, looking at this paragraph:
If the webs aren't anchored between two solid masses (such as walls or trees) or layered across a floor, wall, or ceiling, the conjured web collapses on itself, and the spell ends at the start of your next turn.
Leads me to believe that web, if cast into the air, would immediately fall. The spell does not say this, but it also does not contradict the general rule that things fall unless they are anchored or unless they can fly, neither of which is the case in this instance of web. That being said, anything in the area of effect at the time it was cast would still be affected by the web at the time it was cast. But this also creates a possible contradiction with the next paragraph:
Each creature that starts its turn in the webs or that enters them during its turn must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is restrained as long as it remains in the webs or until it breaks free.
So the spell would be cast and potentially engulf a flying creature, but without any anchors, it would fall away and the "affected" creature would not really need to do anything until the start of their next turn, by which time the webs would have fallen away, leaving the creature unaffected. So I see a clear distinction between RAW and the way I would run it at the table. My conclusion is that, RAW, casting web into the air without any anchor points would accomplish nothing against a flying creature. To reconcile this at my table, I would have the creature make the save at the start of their turn anyway and if they failed, then they are restrained and fall as a result of the web. I would also make the web end at the start of the caster's next turn.
Making adjudications like "a mighty dragon would be too strong to be restrained by a puny web" are fine in your game as long as you are very upfront with your players about it. It's certainly reasonable for a player to assume that Web would work based on the basic rules around the Restrained condition and what happens when your speed is reduced to zero.
Don't want this to work on your BBEG? Make them immune to restrained or give them hover or give them a feature that reduces their fall rate, and ideally give your players the means to research this kind of stuff ahead of time if they go out of their way to do so. Nothing's worse than coming up with a solid, RAW plan and then being told that it doesn't work because the DM just can't imagine it happening to their big strong monster.
"The conjured web collapses on itself" is immediate but has no defined effect. Arguably it means no creature can start its turn in the webs, because the webs have collapsed.
I like your way of thinking. I love creative uses of spells. However I don't think the spell was intended to work this way.
You conjure a mass of thick, sticky webbing at a point of your choice within range. [...] If the webs aren't anchored between two solid masses (such as walls or trees) or layered across a floor, wall, or ceiling, the conjured web collapses on itself, and the spell ends at the start of your next turn.
Your target for the spell is a point within range, not a creature. And since there is no qualifying objects for the web to anchor to, the spell automagically fails.
I'm not a rules lawyering nerd (hate those guys), but I do feel that they worded this spell accordingly to prevent what you are wanting to do with it.
Why can't you choose a point within range inside a creature?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
"The conjured web collapses on itself" is immediate but has no defined effect. Arguably it means no creature can start its turn in the webs, because the webs have collapsed.
When layered on a surface they are 5 feet deep. And given no additional information it can just as likely be that it collapses in on itself over the space of time until the start of the casters turn. During such time it is still difficult terrain and can affect any creature in it.
Such case should normally result in a fall by the rules unless the Dm rule otherwise.
Last time i had a flying creature caught in a Web i relied on a check to see if it fell or if it remained held aloft in the webbing, basing my ruling on the famous scene where Frodo was caught in Shelob's web, suspended in mid air along with several other dead creatures! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlH97rHTtps
By allowing it to work on flying creatures, you're allowing a 2nd level spell to eliminate any flying creature with no save. A dragon may have 200 hit points, but if you cast web on it while it's flying, according the wording of the spell and RAW, the dragon falls to its death. The spell says that it collapses at the start of your next turn, so for now, the dragon has a zero movement. And creatures with a zero movement fly speed, fall immediately 500 ft. So the dragon just took 50d6 points of bludgeoning damage before the spell has a chance to collapse. It just took an average of 175 bludgeoning damage, and there is no save, so even legendary actions won't help. The dragon is prone, and either dead or with just a bare handful of hit points left, and the rest of the party still has their actions. 2nd level spell = one dead dragon (or any other flying creature that doesn't hover), no save.
Spell is poorly written or completely broken. It also nullifies the entire existence of earthbind, another 2nd level spell intended to pull flying creatures to the ground, except that earthbind does it safely.
Disappointed that their spells would function as written? Why?
Oh, you'd change the rules on them because of a difficulty imagining something. Huh.
So, web. At the start of the creature's turn they'll make a Dex save. If they fail that save they become restrained. Unless they can hover, that means their speed is now 0 and they immediately fall 500ft. After they fall, they can take their action to attempt to break free. If the up to 500ft fall took them out of the spell area they're automatically free.
Picture magical webs appearing in the air all around them, snagging them and bringing them to an abrupt halt, then their weight pulling them free of the webs and hurling down into the ground below.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
So the creature could be your aarakocra battle master, it could be a 20 ft wingspan pegasus, it could be any dragon caught at such a time as their wings spanned 20 ft.
It's your aarakocra's turn and they're in action. They try at a dex save and fail - but it's still their turn and they're still in action. They make their strength save and pull themselves free. Or what would you say should happen to your aarakocra? Would they be unable to act on their turn?
The starting position for your aarakocra would be as having it's wings out. It's flying. It's all ready to make a strength saving throw. Sure you could make it use its reaction to enable it to make it but please, give your aarakocra a chance. It would be your aarakocra's mighty strength that would give it its chance to keep itself with wings spread and to pull itself free. Its weight wouldn't be the thing to pull it free.
If players planed thinking that they could subvert what an opponent could do on their turn then I'd hope they wouldn't be disappointed.
Your Turn "On your turn, you can move a distance up to your speed and take one action. You decide whether to move first or take your action first. ..."
Your aarakocra can't move but it can take an action. It uses its action to attempt its strength saving throw. It's so tense. What is your aarakocra's modifier?
13
The table goes nuts. Your aarakocra is free.
When they fail at the start of their turn their speed drops to 0 and they immediately fall up to 500ft.
Probably unnecessary TBH. Unless they're still in the web area, they will have fallen out of the spell effect and not need to break out. They also don't need to save to break out if the fall killed them already.
Creatures who fall to their death are now objects and do not get to act, correct.
Sure but irrelevant.
When it gets to his Action, sure, he can use an action to make the save. But, he'll fall before that.
He has a chance. The dex save. web calls for a dex save. Fail it and be affected by the spell.
The spell says dex save.
It immediately falls if its speed is 0.
The spell offers them a dex save. if they fail it they're affected by the spell. IDK why that is a problem you feel you need to homebrew. But, if you do homebrew it please have the courtesy to let your players know before one tries to use it in the middle of combat and you're intentionally changing rules to prevent their spells from having their intended effects.
Oh, no. It immediately moves. Straight down up to 500ft.
If it somehow remains in the area, if maybe it was flying only like 10' off the ground or something, and only took 1d6 fall damage. Sure, yes, it could then use its action to attempt to break free after the fall.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
I'd see a starting position as having wings out and starting situation as flying as pretty relevant. I guess this is where we differ.
Your character is in full action. It's engaging it's physical abilities. It dodges and weaves. I don't see any reason why your character would then just stop and not resist the effects of the web.
Your character's a flying creature. It's engaged in the activity of flying. It's already doing that. Something tries to get in the way of that and the natural, instinctual response to that, for a flying creature, up in the air, would be to try to keep flying. It's their turn to shine and all they'd need do is to make the effort to try to keep on doing what they were already doing. As soon as there was restraint, the flying creature would naturally fight against it. They're in the process of flying. They'd naturally try to continue - unless they wanted to die.
The spell says,
Each creature that starts its turn in the webs or that enters them during its turn must make a Dexterity saving throw. On a failed save, the creature is restrained as long as it remains in the webs or until it breaks free.
A creature restrained by the webs can use its action to make a Strength check against your spell save DC. If it succeeds, it is no longer restrained.
This relates to an Aarakocra that is already flying and just needs to try to keep doing what its doing.
I think you're pushing interpretations to say that it wouldn't be fighting against the restraint from the moment it applied, It's the Aarakocra's turn.
It's not homebrew. It's a simple view that an Aarakocra that was already flying would try to keep flying as soon as something tried to stop them flying. It wouldn't even take an instant reaction, they'd just need to try to get back into doing what they were already doing.
If a wizard somewhere could spot a creature falling and have the reaction speed to cast feather fall, then I think that an Aarakocra can have the reaction speed to get back into doing what they were already doing.
If you want to interpret that your Aarakocra would just give up the attempt to continue what they were doing, that's up to you. Happy landings.
Something tells me you may not be making fair comparisons here.
Right it is where we differ. I know there is no such thing as "wings out" in 5e rules. You do not.
Because they failed their Dex save. Failing saves has consequences.
If they pass their dex save then they succeeding in doing exactly that.
By passing their dex save.
In 5e, if you are a flying creature, and your speed is reduced to 0... you immediately fall. That is the rules.
Point blank. Just is the rules.
You don't have to agree with the rules but that conversation is for a new topic in the homebrew forum.
Right, and that effort to try to continue is represented by a dex save.
Yep, dex save.
By passing the dex save...
It doesn't matter if it is strong enough to rip apart the webs and break out. Its speed hit 0. Have you ever seen a bird hit a window? They don't coast to the ground. They fall.
If you fail the dex save you have slammed directly into magical webs and have halted to a stop. Your speed is 0 and you cannot fly. You're in the air. You cannot fly. So...
You fall.
If you fail the dex save you are restrained. Per the spell.
A restrained creature has a speed of 0. per the contitions rules.
A flying creature that has a speed of 0 immediately falls. Per movement rules.
That's it. That's all there is to it. If you disagree you're wrong. If you wanna change it that's cool but that's homebrew.
Edit: For your consideration... the Owlfolk even have an ability that could help them, specifically, in a situation like this. Called Nimble Flight. "When you fall, you can use your reaction to make a Dexterity saving throw (DC 10) to stop falling and fly in place until the start of your next turn." These guys could use their reaction to stop the fall before hitting the ground and be fine. Why? because they have an ability that allows them to stop a fall.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
You might want to follow some of your own advice Ravnodus - “RAW<RAI. You let a badly written rule dictate your play? Play as intended.” they have the Dex save yes and if they pass it they slip thru the web spell no problem. If they fail it they still have a strength save to rip the webbing enough to stop being restrained - if they pass the strength save they recover their flight - probably at a lower level. Forcing them to instantly fall the 500’ between the 2 saves may be RAW but it isn’t RAI. If they fail both saves fine they fall and take appropriate fall damage. By the way the 500’ fall distance is roughly the distance you would fall from a “standing start” in 6 seconds so it’s fair to say that at the end of a round anyone/thing not flying/hovering/levitated falls instantly the 500’ or less distance to the ground but during their turn they still get to take their actions and make ALL the saves they are entitled to.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
2 Entirely different conversations. Discussing what is clearly and plainly RAW vs discussing how someone should implement it in their game. One is objective, the other is subjective.
yep
nope. their speed immediately drops to 0, they can't fly, and they fall. That is the rules. Objectively, you're wrong.
Do you have to play that way at your table? of course not. But it is RAW.
You not wanting that to be RAW doesn't not make it RAW.
Flying creatures with 0 fly speed fall. That absolutely is RAI. How do we know this? because they give some creatures Hover.
If a creature can hover they do not fall when their speed hits 0. They just... hover.
If they fail the dex save it means they failed and are restrained. Aside from not being inline with RAW or RAI it is really weird to demand this is the only spell that needs to have someone fail two saves back to back before they can suffer any consequences from it.
Fail save, spell affects you. That's normal. That's expected. It's how everything in this game works. Fail save get affected. Succeed on save don't get affected.
Again, you seem to want to start a fight with the rules themselves.
Genuinely, I recommend the battlefield for that battle is going on over in the Homebrew forum, not this one.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
First; Considering that the spell says that the web collapses, I think that if you cast it in a point that's in mid-air, it's probably supposed to immediately fall out of the space you cast it in and to the ground, functionally doing nothing unless there happened to be a creature under where you cast it.
Second; Gergkyae, you're misinterpreting the spell. The roll to break out of the webs isn't a *saving throw* it's a *check*, which requires an action. Let me paint you a picture without using any rules language: The web explodes around your aaracokra, and snares all of his limbs. He plummets, struggling valiantly against his bonds, but he is unable to break them before he slams into the ground.
That said, the weird thing about this is that Web says a target is restrained until it's no longer in the area of the webs; which means it falls 20 feet at worst, and then is no longer restrained. Should that mean it stops falling, since it gets its flying movement back? I dunno. Like I said in point 1, I think the spell's probably not meant to actually work this way.
After reading the spell's description in the context of the question, and, in particular, looking at this paragraph:
Leads me to believe that web, if cast into the air, would immediately fall. The spell does not say this, but it also does not contradict the general rule that things fall unless they are anchored or unless they can fly, neither of which is the case in this instance of web. That being said, anything in the area of effect at the time it was cast would still be affected by the web at the time it was cast. But this also creates a possible contradiction with the next paragraph:
So the spell would be cast and potentially engulf a flying creature, but without any anchors, it would fall away and the "affected" creature would not really need to do anything until the start of their next turn, by which time the webs would have fallen away, leaving the creature unaffected. So I see a clear distinction between RAW and the way I would run it at the table. My conclusion is that, RAW, casting web into the air without any anchor points would accomplish nothing against a flying creature. To reconcile this at my table, I would have the creature make the save at the start of their turn anyway and if they failed, then they are restrained and fall as a result of the web. I would also make the web end at the start of the caster's next turn.
That's how I see it, anyway.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
Making adjudications like "a mighty dragon would be too strong to be restrained by a puny web" are fine in your game as long as you are very upfront with your players about it. It's certainly reasonable for a player to assume that Web would work based on the basic rules around the Restrained condition and what happens when your speed is reduced to zero.
Don't want this to work on your BBEG? Make them immune to restrained or give them hover or give them a feature that reduces their fall rate, and ideally give your players the means to research this kind of stuff ahead of time if they go out of their way to do so. Nothing's worse than coming up with a solid, RAW plan and then being told that it doesn't work because the DM just can't imagine it happening to their big strong monster.
My homebrew subclasses (full list here)
(Artificer) Swordmage | Glasswright | (Barbarian) Path of the Savage Embrace
(Bard) College of Dance | (Fighter) Warlord | Cannoneer
(Monk) Way of the Elements | (Ranger) Blade Dancer
(Rogue) DaggerMaster | Inquisitor | (Sorcerer) Riftwalker | Spellfist
(Warlock) The Swarm
"The conjured web collapses on itself" is immediate but has no defined effect. Arguably it means no creature can start its turn in the webs, because the webs have collapsed.
Why can't you choose a point within range inside a creature?
Hollow unbreakable arrows are the most OP common magic item, and my current method of coming up with insane combat shenanigans.
if you make a steel pipe with one end closed and a nozzle on the other, you can enlarge it, fill with any liquid, and then drop concentration, creating a high pressure squirt gun. (or a pipe bomb, depending if it holds)
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/basic-rules/combat#TotalCover
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
You could web the inside of a purple worm that has swallowed you, but I can't think of a reason to do so.
When layered on a surface they are 5 feet deep. And given no additional information it can just as likely be that it collapses in on itself over the space of time until the start of the casters turn. During such time it is still difficult terrain and can affect any creature in it.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Such case should normally result in a fall by the rules unless the Dm rule otherwise.
Last time i had a flying creature caught in a Web i relied on a check to see if it fell or if it remained held aloft in the webbing, basing my ruling on the famous scene where Frodo was caught in Shelob's web, suspended in mid air along with several other dead creatures! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlH97rHTtps
By allowing it to work on flying creatures, you're allowing a 2nd level spell to eliminate any flying creature with no save. A dragon may have 200 hit points, but if you cast web on it while it's flying, according the wording of the spell and RAW, the dragon falls to its death. The spell says that it collapses at the start of your next turn, so for now, the dragon has a zero movement. And creatures with a zero movement fly speed, fall immediately 500 ft. So the dragon just took 50d6 points of bludgeoning damage before the spell has a chance to collapse. It just took an average of 175 bludgeoning damage, and there is no save, so even legendary actions won't help. The dragon is prone, and either dead or with just a bare handful of hit points left, and the rest of the party still has their actions. 2nd level spell = one dead dragon (or any other flying creature that doesn't hover), no save.
Spell is poorly written or completely broken. It also nullifies the entire existence of earthbind, another 2nd level spell intended to pull flying creatures to the ground, except that earthbind does it safely.
No you aren't. It has a save, and with a 60' range, normally fall damage will be capped at 6d6.